Forums > General Industry > Photographer and model badly burned in blast

Jun 09 15 07:07 pm Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 23575

Salem, Oregon, US

they don't drain the gas from cars in a salvage yard? it's just a bunch of gas bombs waiting to happen? yikes.

Jun 09 15 07:58 pm Link

Model

Dea and the Beast

Posts: 4796

Saint Petersburg, Florida, US

ontherocks wrote:
they don't drain the gas from cars in a salvage yard? it's just a bunch of gas bombs waiting to happen? yikes.

Fumes are enough. I worked at a gas station in Medway, Kent for a while. I could tell you some seriously messed up stuff about that.

The Florida heat and....wait why were they both inside a gutted car again?!? Close-up?
Portait?

Jun 09 15 08:34 pm Link

Photographer

Vector One Photography

Posts: 3722

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

I shot in the same junk yard last week and I didn't smell any gas from anywhere. But all it takes is a few ounces to vaporize in a closed area and one spark. It was hot so any gas left in the gas tank (which may have been damaged in the accident that lead to the car being junked) would have vaporized and collected in the interior of the vehicle. Then the photographer LIT candles to be in the photograph and then boosh...there was a flash over that apparently engulfed the model, lit her dress and hair on fire.  The rest is history.

It's a real loss on so many levels, the owner would allow some photographers to use it as a location so that's now history, the other yards will use this as a reason to keep photographers out, some other locations (not junk yards) will use this as an excuse not to allow photographers for their own liability risk.  The photographer is injured, the model is in critical condition with burns over 75% of the body and probably will not be able to model any more.

All because some idiot comes up with an idea and didn't think it through, or didn't know enough about what he was planning. Fire, explosions, firearms, speeding cars, entering crumbling buildings... you have to know what you are doing or hire someone who does because when it goes bad, it goes really bad.

Jun 09 15 08:35 pm Link

Photographer

DOUGLASFOTOS

Posts: 10604

Los Angeles, California, US

Amadea and the Beast wrote:

Fumes are enough. I worked at a gas station in Medway, Kent for a while. I could tell you some seriously messed up stuff about that.

The Florida heat and....wait why were they both inside a gutted car again?!? Close-up?
Portait?

And Using Lighted Candles inside the gutted car.

Jun 09 15 08:44 pm Link

Photographer

Chicchowmein

Posts: 14585

Palm Beach, Florida, US

Really stupid especially with the heat down here. I know people that have accidentally lit themselves on fire with generators, pressure cleaners, gas grills ,etc -- and there was no open flame involved. It is just too damn easy for the vapor to ignite.

I have gone off on people before for pumping gas with a lit cigarette -- I don't care if you want to die but excuse me if I don't want you to take me out with you.

Lit flame is just asking for it. I hope they both make a full recovery.

Poor girl -- burns over 80% over her body is a tough row to hoe.

Jun 09 15 09:05 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45192

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Chicchowmein wrote:
Really stupid especially with the heat down here. I know people that have accidentally lit themselves on fire with generators, pressure cleaners, gas grills ,etc -- and there was no open flame involved. It is just too damn easy for the vapor to ignite.

I have gone off on people before for pumping gas with a lit cigarette -- I don't care if you want to die but excuse me if I don't want you to take me out with you.

Lit flame is just asking for it. I hope they both make a full recovery.

Poor girl -- burns over 80% over her body is a tough row to hoe.

If she survives.  Chances are she might not make it.   sad

Jun 09 15 09:51 pm Link

Photographer

DeanLautermilch

Posts: 321

Sebring, Florida, US

Jun 10 15 04:03 am Link

Photographer

udor

Posts: 25255

New York, New York, US

Chicchowmein wrote:
Poor girl -- burns over 80% over her body is a tough row to hoe.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
If she survives.  Chances are she might not make it.   sad

At 80% of the body surface burned... I think to remember that the chance of survival is slim to nothing, unfortunately!

Jun 10 15 04:28 am Link

Model

Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

Getting burned is some REALLY extensive pain, esp. when recovering.

I didn't know this was possible...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jjPxgFmub8

Jun 10 15 07:18 am Link

Model

Model MoRina

Posts: 6637

MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica

What a terrible accident. I hope for the most positive outcome possible for these two.

Out of respect for the injured parties, who were part of our community, it would be nice to not pass judgement on their actions in this thread.

Jun 10 15 07:49 am Link

Photographer

Solas

Posts: 10390

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

When I used to be a student studying and doing EMS, going back a decade now, burns are some of the most frightening to treat of all injuries (especially during motor vehicle accidents; ). There's all kinds of complications, going in and recovering from it... The process of recovery is going to be long, and very very difficult..from the sounds of it the bystanders were trying to use their hands to put out the fire. It doesn't take much of the body burnt in order for it to be life threatening. I don't even want to think of it..

but...80% of the body burnt... yikes wow

It is very sad.. it doesn't say if they were allowed there or not but, I would wonder if the property owners were aware of how liable they could be allowing them to shoot there under such conditions or what on earth they could have been thinking it was a good idea. The whole scenario is awful in general

I hope they recover, but I also expect we will see a hefty legal dispute to follow this in the process.

Jun 10 15 07:56 am Link

Photographer

Happy Guy Photos

Posts: 1271

Upland, California, US

This is why so many are reluctant to give permission for shoots to take place on their property.


Gabby

Jun 10 15 08:31 am Link

Photographer

SayCheeZ!

Posts: 20613

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Solas wrote:
...burns are some of the most frightening to treat of all injuries (especially during motor vehicle accidents; ). There's all kinds of complications, going in and recovering from it... The process of recovery is going to be long, and very very difficult..from the sounds of it the bystanders were trying to use their hands to put out the fire. It doesn't take much of the body burnt in order for it to be life threatening. I don't even want to think of it..

but...80% of the body burnt... yikes wow

Sadly, the prognosis for 80% is usually grim, but some people do survive and go on to live relatively normal lives.
One of my closest friends from teenage years is one of them.  Although he practically lived in a hospital for nearly a decade he's live a fairly normal life (driving, traveling, hobbies) throughout his adult life.  That's quite a feat after being told the last rites right after his friends and family gathered around him for 'one last time'.

If anyone asks him if the pain, physical disfigurement, and time in the hospital was worth what he received in return, I think he'd give a strong 'Yes'.  I hope the model has the stregnth and will to pull through, too.

Jun 10 15 08:48 am Link

Photographer

Jerry Nemeth

Posts: 33355

Dearborn, Michigan, US

MoRina wrote:
What a terrible accident. I hope for the most positive outcome possible for these two.

Out of respect for the injured parties, who were part of our community, it would be nice to not pass judgement on their actions in this thread.

We have to think about safety at shoots.  On one of my shoots a model broke a finger when we were climbing over wet and slippery rocks in a waterfall area.  She didn't find out that it was broken until 2 weeks later.

Jun 10 15 10:05 am Link

Photographer

DOUGLASFOTOS

Posts: 10604

Los Angeles, California, US

What I read on OP's original three Articles...this was 100% Preventable. Using Lighted Candles as a set piece in a junked out car.

Living in LA...I see the areas of Hazards...Like The Railroad Tracks by the LA River Downtown. While some would use....It is truly too damn dangerous to use. Many elements of injury could happen.

I Stopped using this section of a Beach in California, But to get to this not known beach by most...would involve some rock climbing and would take depending on the agility of my models...quite some time..or quickly done.  IF, the Tide is way down...all we had to do was walk around them big rocks...but if the tide was up...Rock Climbing.

I decided to stop using this certain location many years ago. I got this horrible idea...one day..one of my Models...would get hurt or actually would die from a fall.

When I shoot on the Islands of Oahu and Maui...I am very careful and explain to the Models...Beach Hazards.

Jun 10 15 10:19 am Link

Photographer

Ken Marcus Studios

Posts: 9419

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
...I am very careful and explain to the Models...Beach Hazards.

Explaining things to the model is NOT the same as having liability insurance for when things really go wrong.

Also . . . even with insurance, if the location requires permits and you don't have one, you may not be covered.

Check with your insurance agent to see what coverage is recommended for someone like you to be able to work without worry.

Jun 10 15 10:30 am Link

Photographer

Michael Bots

Posts: 8020

Kingston, Ontario, Canada

There is a (generally closed) waterfront area of Toronto where the shoreline is covered with smashed concrete, old sidewalk chunks, building slabs, light poles etc. Many pieces have significant lengths of rebar sticking out and up. An absolute impalement death trap loaded with tripping hazards and unstable footing.


Gasoline is tricky stuff.   If there is no wind the fumes will accumulate in any low spot, and can spread significant distances in a layer only a few inches deep - even from just a couple ounces.   Outside the layer there is nothing to smell.  I have seen a cup (8 oz) of gasoline create a 20 foot diameter ground hugging flashover.

Jun 10 15 11:05 am Link

Photographer

DOUGLASFOTOS

Posts: 10604

Los Angeles, California, US

Montoya was believed to be using a vehicle that was inoperable and using candles as a backdrop for the photo shoot.

Police suspect gas fumes were ignited by the candles. "This was more of an explosion, than an actual burn," said Fort Lauderdale Fire Rescue Deputy Chief Timothy Heiser. "When Fire Rescue crews arrived, the majority of the fire was already out, but it appears there was some sort type of explosion that self extinguished for the most part."

Jun 10 15 01:17 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45192

San Juan Bautista, California, US

MoRina wrote:
What a terrible accident. I hope for the most positive outcome possible for these two.

Out of respect for the injured parties, who were part of our community, it would be nice to not pass judgement on their actions in this thread.

I agree!  This is such a terrible accident that no one should ever have to go through!

Jun 10 15 02:21 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45192

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Solas wrote:
When I used to be a student studying and doing EMS, going back a decade now, burns are some of the most frightening to treat of all injuries (especially during motor vehicle accidents; ). There's all kinds of complications, going in and recovering from it... The process of recovery is going to be long, and very very difficult..from the sounds of it the bystanders were trying to use their hands to put out the fire. It doesn't take much of the body burnt in order for it to be life threatening. I don't even want to think of it..

but...80% of the body burnt... yikes wow

It is very sad.. it doesn't say if they were allowed there or not but, I would wonder if the property owners were aware of how liable they could be allowing them to shoot there under such conditions or what on earth they could have been thinking it was a good idea. The whole scenario is awful in general

I hope they recover, but I also expect we will see a hefty legal dispute to follow this in the process.

Anything automotive related has potential for accidents!  I used to be a turn worker in communications at race tracks.  Strategically positioned at every turn there is to be two flag operators (giving color flag & hand signals to drivers), one turn marshal standing by one fireman (holding an extinguisher) and two communicators of which I was one.  It's called the "buddy system" as we look in opposite directions over each others shoulders. 

This was for sports car road racing, but the possibility of fire is at any place ... often times in the pits and the paddock areas.  There are always spin outs and worse wreaks.  The public always hears about deaths in auto racing, but believe me ... the sport is far safer thanks to quick response by the safety teams. 

What does  auto racing have to do with photographing a model?  Photographing models should be a separate issue compared to a dangerous "sport" however safety should always be considered, especially under the circumstances that this photographer and model were working under.  I have shot models around cars many times.  I've been around railroad tracks shooting models too.  Beaches are also a favorite location for me.  On occasion, I've gone shooting just myself and the model, but more often not. 

I am a firm believer in the buddy system.  That is why I don't harp on about "escorts" because I usually involve a couple people I know in shoots.  No strangers allowed!  The models and I are already well past the "get to know you" stage and we appreciate assistants, make up artists, grips, look outs, and especially security when we're downtown at a public (metro) location.   What this comes down to is I don't know for sure if having a third person standing there with a fire extinguisher would have helped ... but probably! 

I've climbed around junk yards enough to have seen sudden fires started.  I know that even when they say "we emptied the fluids of all vehicles here" that they might have missed some, and also there is always residual left that can create vapers.  Just like around the race track, never assume that a car is safe just because it's sitting in a junk yard.  Lighting candles in an old shell of a car is not something I consider a safe idea.  I'm sorry that this accident happened to them.  It's a hard lesson!  I hope they recover!

Jun 10 15 03:07 pm Link

Photographer

Light and Lens Studio

Posts: 3450

Sisters, Oregon, US

Horrible and tragic. 

One precaution when shooting around any open flame that is in proximity to the model.  Clothing.  Some fabrics are highly combustible and ignite easily if they contact open flame; some synthetic fibers will generate additional thermal energy and potentially aggravate thermal damage from other external sources.  Then, there are fibers that will protect (to some degree) from flash type burns.  The Forest Service uses a material called Nomex.  It is required for all wildland firefighters whether they are working for the Government or for independent Wildland Fire Suppression contractors.  However, Nomex isn't very stylish and tends not to come in colors that would be considered stylish.

Prayers and wishes for full recovery for the victims of this tragic event.

Jun 10 15 03:30 pm Link

Artist/Painter

ethasleftthebuilding

Posts: 16685

Key West, Florida, US

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
Explaining things to the model is NOT the same as having liability insurance for when things really go wrong.

Also . . . even with insurance, if the location requires permits and you don't have one, you may not be covered.

Check with your insurance agent to see what coverage is recommended for someone like you to be able to work without worry.

...and for an accident of this magnitude, the million dollar policy, which is a common amount for liability policies, won't cover the long term medical expenses.

Jun 10 15 04:15 pm Link

Artist/Painter

ethasleftthebuilding

Posts: 16685

Key West, Florida, US

This was in a salvage yard?

Around here, scrap metal dealers will not accept a vehicle unless the fuel tank has been removed or drained and disabled by punching holes in it.

At auto salvage yards, the first thing they do is either remove the fuel tank (if it can be resold as a used part or is plastic) or drain and disable the fuel tank by punching holes in it (if it is metal and will be scrapped with the vehicle).

Jun 10 15 04:24 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45192

San Juan Bautista, California, US

ernst tischler wrote:
This was in a salvage yard?

Around here, scrap metal dealers will not accept a vehicle unless the fuel tank has been removed or drained and disabled by punching holes in it.

At auto salvage yards, the first thing they do is either remove the fuel tank (if it can be resold as a used part or is plastic) or drain and disable the fuel tank by punching holes in it (if it is metal and will be scrapped with the vehicle).

They are supposed to, but as I said earlier, never assume that it's been done.  Interesting how unemotional, and nearly unsympathetic that employee (or owner?) interviewed seems.  If I had just witnessed something like that happen, I don't think I could seem so unaffected.

Jun 10 15 05:36 pm Link

Photographer

MMR Creative Services

Posts: 1902

Doylestown, Pennsylvania, US

Iv'e been thru a few salvage yards looking for the lettering for my '64 Impala SS (that's back when they used to apply the characters individually with a screw- not a glue stick). The boys always told you, you were fair game to anything out there and they were not responsible for your bleedings.

Amen.

P. S. The Impala came and went and oh baby what a lead sled with its Hush Thrush 2-1/2" side pipes roaring wink

Jun 10 15 06:01 pm Link

Photographer

Solas

Posts: 10390

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

ernst tischler wrote:
This was in a salvage yard?

Around here, scrap metal dealers will not accept a vehicle unless the fuel tank has been removed or drained and disabled by punching holes in it.

At auto salvage yards, the first thing they do is either remove the fuel tank (if it can be resold as a used part or is plastic) or drain and disable the fuel tank by punching holes in it (if it is metal and will be scrapped with the vehicle).

Interesting, I frequent the yards myself for car parts (lots of project cars between me and a buddy) but haven't seen that in practice. It's a good idea though

Jun 10 15 06:12 pm Link

Photographer

Mikey McMichaels

Posts: 3356

New York, New York, US

The fumes may not have been from the care they were in.

Jun 10 15 06:42 pm Link

Photographer

Vector One Photography

Posts: 3722

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

ernst tischler wrote:
This was in a salvage yard?

It was a used parts yard where he bought (probably) totaled cars, sold off as many of the parts as he could and then sold the hulks for scrap metal to a metal yard.  A lot of the cars had partial interiors, no engines and were in varying degrees of being dismantled.

Like I said, I've shot there several times, never smelled gas or saw any puddles of gas or oil. And because the interiors were all torn up I would never think of putting a model inside the hulk.  Too many sharp edges, broken glass, and wet seats since most of the cars had missing glass due to being sold off or broken.

Jun 10 15 07:31 pm Link

Photographer

Vector One Photography

Posts: 3722

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

UPDATE............according to the local 11:00 PM news it was not a model but his assistant that was UNDER the car setting up the shot.  It gets worse, if you have someone under the set you don't start the fire until they are clear. She is married with children.... shame.

Jun 10 15 08:10 pm Link

Photographer

Arizona Shoots

Posts: 28653

Phoenix, Arizona, US

And the next time some idiot comes in here and posts how unfair it is that they need to pay for liability insurance, we can all point them to this incident.

Jun 10 15 08:22 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45192

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Solas wrote:
Interesting, I frequent the yards myself for car parts (lots of project cars between me and a buddy) but haven't seen that in practice. It's a good idea though

I don't know of the restrictions in running a salvage business, but I've been to quite a variety of yards.  The reality is that auto salvage yards are not in the business of providing some sort of venue or location for photo shoots.  There is the question of liability insurance covering such an activity and at such a business. 

One yard I've gone to is where they are super clean up front, stock the parts inside a store and go get the parts for you if they've got them out back.  No customers were allowed to pull their own parts although they'd let you go look ... that was a specialty shop that dealt with Trans Am's only.  I had a 77 Trans ... needed a gas tank from that place. Of course they keep their risk down by pulling the parts for the customers.  Most junk yards are not quite that clean, service oriented, or organized.  Most let you pull your own.

Then the extreme opposite is when I went to an old junk yard among the hills in the country where cars were scattered all over the place, and an old lady was the owner after her husband died.  She knew where everything was as far as models and makes of cars, but you were completely on your own and at your own risk.  No way would I believe she'd drained fluids or these cars were safe to bring flames around.

Jun 10 15 08:42 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45192

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Vector One Photography wrote:
UPDATE............according to the local 11:00 PM news it was not a model but his assistant that was UNDER the car setting up the shot.  I gets worse, if you have someone under the set you don't start the fire until they are clear. She is married with children.... shame.

Oh man!   That's heart breaking.  sad

Jun 10 15 08:46 pm Link

Photographer

DDDDC Photos

Posts: 651

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:

Explaining things to the model is NOT the same as having liability insurance for when things really go wrong.

Also . . . even with insurance, if the location requires permits and you don't have one, you may not be covered.

Check with your insurance agent to see what coverage is recommended for someone like you to be able to work without worry.

Again Ken you have touch on the core here, and I agree 100%

Jun 11 15 05:53 am Link

Photographer

1472

Posts: 1120

Pembroke Pines, Florida, US

Wow this is sad and terrible

Jun 11 15 10:24 am Link

Photographer

DDDDC Photos

Posts: 651

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

John Jebbia wrote:
And the next time some idiot comes in here and posts how unfair it is that they need to pay for liability insurance, we can all point them to this incident.

+ about 63 photographers agreeing with this statement.

Jun 11 15 10:58 am Link

Model

Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

Does anyone have an update on this?

Jun 12 15 06:16 pm Link

Photographer

Chicchowmein

Posts: 14585

Palm Beach, Florida, US

Jules NYC wrote:
Does anyone have an update on this?

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/browa … story.html

I don't see anything more recent than 2 days ago but it is now said the woman with the life threatening burns was actually the production assistant.

"Fort Lauderdale Fire Rescue Fire Marshal Jeffrey A. Lucas said Montoya should have had a permit from his office, which requires one for all productions involving fireworks or flame effects."

No update on her condition or identity aside that is reported that the family does not wish to reveal her name for now.

Jun 12 15 06:40 pm Link

Photographer

Vector One Photography

Posts: 3722

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

Chicchowmein wrote:
"Fort Lauderdale Fire Rescue Fire Marshal Jeffrey A. Lucas said Montoya should have had a permit from his office, which requires one for all productions involving fireworks or flame effects."

This may sound rude but I hope they hang it on the photographer and not the yard. They allowed photographers to shoot in a place you normally don't get to use and they're going to eat it it for this.  I used to shoot there, I just found two other yards 25 miles away but because of this incident they probably won't let me shoot even though I have $ 3M in insurance.

Jun 12 15 06:44 pm Link

Photographer

Chicchowmein

Posts: 14585

Palm Beach, Florida, US

Vector One Photography wrote:
This may sound rude but I hope they hang it on the photographer and not the yard. They allowed photographers to shoot in a place you normally don't get to use and they're going to eat it it for this.  I used to shoot there, I just found two other yards 25 miles away but because of this incident they probably won't let me shoot even though I have $ 3M in insurance.

I would imagine that the insurance company will probably insist on no more photo shoots there. I wouldn't be surprised if the insurance company drops coverage and may possibly deny coverage on the grounds that this was an inherently risky activity. I would think that as a matter of course the yard would deny future photo shoots.

My brother in law was severely injured in a spear fishing accident. His arm was bitten off by a shark. My sister put a tourniquet on his arm and arranged to have a cargo plane fly him back from the Caymans --  the insurance company tried to not cover because spear fishing is considered an inherently dangerous activity.

Jun 12 15 06:55 pm Link