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5DS or 5dSR or medium format?
Hi i currently shoot on a Canon 5D III and have a spare one which I plan to trade in. I was wondering if anyone could advise as to what would be a better camera for glamour photography and a better camera for landscape photography between the 5DS and 5DSR. I am open to other camera choices, including lower priced medium format cameras. i have collected a fairly decent set of canon lenses over the years and not keen to start buying new glass as well so if i move from canon i would like to be able to get a camera which could use canon lenses. Thanks Luke Oct 28 15 07:49 am Link As a medium format shooter since February, I can tell you that between the Pentax 645z (52MP), and the Nikon D800E (36MP) there is quite a difference in image quality, even when you crop the Pentax image to what would amount to 36MP or so. Medium format adds a dimension of creamy richness that full frame will never have. Oct 28 15 08:01 am Link I shoot a mamiya leaf system. I would encourage you to try a digital back (or the pentax system) prior to making a decision, just to see the difference. While there is a difference in the file they produce, the working methodology, depending on the platform you choose, can be very different. Oct 28 15 09:15 am Link Instinct wrote: Why not test drive? The Canon Twins and Other Larger Formats. Read them reviews of the Canon Twins. Oct 28 15 09:18 am Link Instinct wrote: I think for glamour you could consider older backs from Phase One. The tonality on some of the old backs when thrown on a Mayima is gorgeous. The sensor is so much bigger in medium format that it makes an adapter for Canon glass troublesome according to some forums out there in terms of image quality so . . you're stuck really with medium format glass if you want the look. Here's a P20 from a pro guy who shoots lingerie: I think he did this last year, and the whole setup is old, over ten years old, https://www.flickr.com/photos/77166454@N05/15355046746 Oct 29 15 12:28 am Link If possible rent some camera. Otherwise a Sony A7R II with Metabones adapter (1) with many batteries might be a practical choice, to maintain, at least for some time, your canon lenses. 1) While the AF on many Canon lens is maintained on some lens and/or some focal length may not give sufficient performance. Oct 29 15 01:23 am Link When you went from a APS-C sensor to a slightly larger "full frame" you saw a nice difference in focus fall off..... Well...Medium format is 2-1/2 times the size of a 35mm "full frame"....Backgrounds are stunning, faces take on new dimensions even in full body shots and the glass....Is like nothing made for the 35mm world. Make sure you get the right camera system for your needs. The Pentax is nice, but the lack of leaf shutter lenses kill it for me. Most leaf lenses "sync" to 1/1600 Fwiw. IQ wise I would put an old 22mpix Hassey up against a D-810/5DSr. Low light...not so much of course. The new stuff is staggering especially the Phase One IQ series Oct 29 15 07:59 pm Link JGC Photography wrote: Actually it's only Phase LS and Phase Schneider (SK) leaf shutter lenses that can flash sync up to 1/1600 with a capable MFDB, The SK 75-150 and SK 240mm sync up to 1/1000th. Oct 29 15 09:01 pm Link Instinct wrote: 5dsr Oct 29 15 09:15 pm Link TheScarletLetterSeries wrote: I think these annoying limitations actually present mostly on smaller format could be resolved definitively and brilliantly once the existing limits in the electronic shutter will be solved. And I think the first camera probably will be some mirrorless camera. Oct 30 15 01:46 am Link alessandro2009 wrote: ...but you're still left with the original limitation of a smaller sensor format. Oct 30 15 06:24 am Link Thank you everyone. I am tilting towards the Pentax 645Z but daunted that i will need a whole new set of lenses as well and thats a lot of money. Oct 30 15 09:13 pm Link Jorge Kreimer wrote: This gets my interest - I shot a little bit of medium format chrome in the 90s with Mamiya and yeah that's where I wanted to go - but then analog ended. Haven't shot any MF digital at all, so I have nothing to compare personally. Oct 30 15 09:23 pm Link I want the op job....5d3 out of date, not good enough...wow...and...saw on craigs list for 950....lol...would not sell my "outdated 5d2" for 950 Oct 30 15 09:45 pm Link ItS not about the camera, it's about your vision ... Oct 30 15 10:41 pm Link D a v i d s o n wrote: ...and then it's about the camera. Oct 30 15 11:33 pm Link Instinct wrote: That's the holdup for a lot of people. The lenses are bank-breakers. Oct 31 15 12:18 am Link Consider the 5dsr for day to day stuff and hire the medium format for the jobs that need it. Oct 31 15 03:17 am Link I too have the 5Diii and also have the 5DSr.. I shoot landscapes, portraits and fine art with both cameras and have used the 5DSr since June. I really like the 5DSr for a number of reasons. I like the sharpness and high resolution especially when you need to crop. I feel as though the colors are creamier, brighter, and much better than the older 5D models or the Nikon 810 while the dynamic range is a bit improved over the mark iii. That being said it does have noise problems in low light. Moire between the S ans Sr? I have shot a handful of models with my DSr and have not seen any moire at all. At times I wonder whether the resolution is too good for my pc. When you first look at a photo that takes up half your monitor the image is at first disappointing because it looks soft then after you zoom in, wow the photo is extremely sharp. My guess is that there are too many pixels crammed into the photo when it's in a small window. It is that good. Overall I love shooting it but you have to be careful. When the conditions are right you get an amazing image. But if there is the slightest camera motion then the camera is unforgiving. Tough when working handheld with a model. My new rule of fhumb is the shutter speed should be close to twice the focal length otherwise you need to use a tripod and a sturdy one at that plus mirror lockup or a delayed shutter. When you nail it then it's awesome but when conditions are not perfect then any imperfection is magnified (poor lighting, depth of field and etc). One other comment is that I find myself softening portraits because the camera picks up every pore, hair, and other imperfections. I would recommend it for controlled studio shooting or landscapes with a tripod. Actually I now only use it with a tripod for any shoot and I am pretty steady without one. Oct 31 15 11:14 pm Link Darren Brade wrote: This. Nov 01 15 04:49 am Link I shoot a lot with a 5Ds R and the 5D Mark III. The quality of the image is better with the 5ds, the option to do large print is a key point for me. Nov 01 15 05:33 pm Link Instinct wrote: You can get older Pentax 645 glass for a song Nov 01 15 05:55 pm Link I've gone through all of the same questions as the OP. I chose the 5DsR. The reasons were as follows: 1. Spend more on lenses than bodies. You could buy three Zeiss Otus lenses for the same money as what it costs for a 645Z plus lenses (the one I'd want is the 90mm f/2.8 macro) 2. Colour handling. Canon still do a better job of handling skin tone than the 645Z, which tends to make skin colour look a little sallow. 645Z colours look more desaturated and aquarelle like than Canon colours. For model shoots I would rather have better skin tone and a richer colour palette, than more detail. 3. Better choice of lenses at reasonable prices eg tilt shift lenses 4. Faster lenses. The fastest Pentax lens is only a f/2.8 vs. f/1.2 for current native Canon lenses (and f/1.4 for Zeiss lenses). That means you can get shallower depth of field from a Canon 5D than a Pentax 645. 5. Lack of central shutters on the Pentax 645 system 6. Cost effectiveness: the 645Z may be subtly better, but the difference in price between this and the 5DsR is probably more effectively spent on lenses and lighting equipment. The 645Z will be out of date in a couple of years, whereas you can get decades out of quality lenses and lighting equipment, which also hold their value better. 7. Healthy skepticism about the alleged medium format "look". I do think the higher resolution and better S/N ratios gives MFD a genuine advantage but fear there is also a bit of placebo effect at work. After paying $10-40K for camera bodies people start wax lyrical about all sort of exaggerated things: Compare http://diglloyd.com/blog/2014/images/20 … 6xpFVHzT7B vs http://diglloyd.com/blog/2014/images/20 … xJ7AIFwSOL Also, remember how much FF Canon bodies used to cost? There was a time not too long ago they would have set you back the same amount as a 645Z, but prices have come down. It is only a matter of time before medium format sensors will come down in price too. One day kids won't believe you when you say you once paid $10-40K for an MFD body. Keep in mind that it is considered generally advisable to keep your DSLR after you acquire a MFD system. The reason is that when you need to work faster or on the run outside of the studio, DSLRs are much faster, as well as being more portable. It's rather more sensible to reserve SLR MFD for studio work. Finally, there is vague speculation that Fuji might soon digitise their tremendous medium format expertise from the film era. If Fuji released a mirrorless X-trans MFD version of the X-Pro1 with updated versions of their film era medium format lenses—which do already have central shutters—it would be a killer system, dramatically more compact than SLR MFD systems like the Pentax, plus all of the spectacular IQ that goes with Fuji lenses. In addition to a 5DsR, I own a Fuji X-Pro1, and despite being a four year old model, it still often produces images that surpass that of my Canon 6D. Fujis also render skin tone better than even a Canon. It's almost scary to imagine what a scaled up MFD version of the X-Pro would be able to do. I would hate to buy into the Pentax 645 system now only for Fuji to release their rival mirrorless MFD system at a compatible price point only a year or two later. Nov 01 15 09:47 pm Link TheScarletLetterSeries wrote: Short flash in the studio is great and easily achieved when using (renting) the higher quality packs (broncolor Scoro comes to mind); but that doesn't usually give one a lot of "shutter" latitude when working on location during the day- that's where actual shutter speed and a high sync speed comes into play. You're right, the horribly under powered HSS, etc.. can't hold a candle to the more competent strobe-n-pack options. Nov 01 15 09:48 pm Link D a v i d s o n wrote: The bottom line is that without out the right equipment (lens, camera, strobe, and or pack) your vision might not be able to be realized. What component is more important merely depends on what you're trying to do. Vision is no more important than equipment. Countless shots that were impossible to get with a pro body in 2004 are easily gotten handheld today. What was unusable in 2004 at 3200 iso can often be used for stock, etc. today. Equipment makes a lot of difference. Likewise, lenses are no more important than camera bodies... Nov 01 15 09:56 pm Link SoftLight Images wrote: When shooting handheld with a model yesterday, I ran into problems shooting at focal length x 2 with the rather heavy 85mm f/1.2 L lens. I have only had luck shooting handheld at much higher shutter speeds. I think I will set my lower limit now at shutter speeds of FL x 2.5. Nov 01 15 10:39 pm Link As mentioned before, rent is the best bet... You have lots of Canon lenses so the natural option would be the 5DS/R. To get the most from a high resolution digicam we need sharp lens, fast enough shutter speed and perfect focus... For Pentax you may want a monopod +- like this https://youtu.be/LOFkCZ6TtGQ or start to pump some iron  The best 645z review is at http://blog.mingthein.com/other-reviews/ Pentax is a tank and whether sealed, but only the new D FA 645 lens are. For a wireless monoblock flash with high speed sync the option is http://flashhavoc.com/priolite-hss-for-pentax/ Sony with an adapter and you may use some of your current Canon lens with AF, some work +- ok and some not, here the list http://briansmith.com/sony-a7rii-canon- … ter-tests/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwy6O774NR4 But only native lenses will get you Eye AF tracking https://youtu.be/5xr-i8LBb6g?t=7m30s with Canon lenses we only get Face Detection, not Eye AF... For a wireless monoblock flash with high speed sync the option is http://flashhavoc.com/cononmk-abc-ttl-t … -released/ http://www.lightingrumours.com/cononmar … eview-6241 in the future maybe Prophoto and Phottix... If want to learn the Sony tricks http://www.friedmanarchives.com/A7r2/index.htm The body IS, high dynamic range, the small size and mainly the Eye AF tracking is what makes the Sony interesting for ME... I want sharp eyes with wide apertures... A7rII+Batis 85mm is our friend For Sony RAW I prefer Capture One, the Express version is now free for Sony users and the upgrade to full is not expensive. https://www.phaseone.com/en/Imaging-Sof … -Sony.aspx Nov 02 15 08:06 am Link I was in a situation like yourself earlier this year. I've been a Canon shooter since the beginning (a Rebel felt better in my hands than the entry level Nikon at the time) and eventually worked my way up to a 6D and some nice glass. Like a lot of Canon shooters, I was constantly up against the lack of dynamic range and limited file size (I like to make large prints). I was very excited when the new 5D's were announced, but was disappointed by the final results. I ended up going with the Pentax 645z and haven't looked back since. It was an expensive jump (I jokingly referred to it as buy a car without wheels), but not as bad as you'd think. I actually bought a significant amount of my glass of Ebay from Japan. The 645 system has been pretty popular over there for a while and there are plenty of sellers with quality items. All said and done, I now have four lenses and spent about $11k on the whole thing. Nov 02 15 08:53 am Link Sator wrote: I handhold an RZ... I think the Pentax can be shot handheld as well, you just need to get used to it. Nov 02 15 08:59 am Link Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote: Sator wrote: I can assure you that I am thoroughly used to it. Nov 02 15 04:39 pm Link J Diffner Photography wrote: $11k for a mf camera and 4 lenses is not bad at all. Nov 02 15 07:07 pm Link I shoot with 645z for almost a year now. There are good & bad that come with it. AF is good enough (for MF), and you can def. shooting handhold with it. With FA 120mm or 150mm or 200mm, the weight is actually less then 35mm pro-body (Nikon D4 or Canon 1Dx) with 70-200mm. Funny thing is, I got more sharp images with 645z + 150mm @ f/2.8 compare to D810 + 85mm @ f/1.8 ... so weird. File from this camera is way better then Nikon D810 no matter what people said about both bodies ... With 50MP & 14 DR, these files give you a lot of wiggle room in post work. As the prev. folks said about colors, I actually love the colors from Pentax 645z more then from all my Nikon & Canon & Fuji bodies. In fact, I edit Colors less now in post ...  Also, you do not need to buy the newest (and way more expensive DFA lenses). Just go to Ebay and look for those awesome FA lenses for about $300 - $700 each depending on what lens ... What I don't like ?? - sync speed at only 1/125 of a sec. ... wish it could be more, like 1/250 or 1/320. Pentax does have 75mm LS & 135mm LS lenses that sync at 1/500 though but you have to be happy with manual focus only with these lenses. - no 2nd curtain sync. so be careful when you shoot water drops with flash ... - slow FPS & buffer ... this is not Nikon D4 or D810 or Canon 1DX or 5Dmk3. - No after sales Customer Service in US ... if you have problem with your 645z, you have to send it to Japan to get fix - and it takes time, like months ... Other then these stuff above, Pentax 645z is just awesome ... even the guy from Luminous Landscape, Michael Reichmann (dire hard Phase One shooter) said the same thing ... https://luminous-landscape.com/pentax-6 … th-review/ Nov 03 15 02:05 pm Link Alien LiFe wrote: Nov 04 15 07:06 am Link Pictus wrote: Yes, You're right - I've noticed that trigger from Alex Munoz as well. It's another solution to combat the lack of LS & slow sync speed but then you will have to get the strobe as well & I already invested quite of money on PCB Einsteins, Flashpoint & Godox so no point of getting another brand strobe for only 645z ... I do shoot Nikon & Fuji as well Nov 04 15 10:53 am Link Yes... It's big to match the Pentax size ... Nov 04 15 12:30 pm Link |
