Looknsee Photography wrote:
I'm sorry for your difficulties.  I also apologize in advance if my advice is not helpful.

In general, any modeling business is 10% modeling and 90% business.  Part of that "business" is developing the discipline & skills to negotiate terms, to document terms, and to avoid misunderstandings.

My advice:  create a checklist with the questions you want discussed before agreeing to work with anyone.  Some questions you might want to consider adding to your own personal checklist might include...
...  Date & time of the shoot?
...  Location of the shoot?
...  Length of time of the shoot?
...  What do you need to prepare before arriving at the shoot?  What should you bring?
...  Who (besides the photographer & yourself) will be present?
...  Will there be a hair stylist and/or a makeup artist there?
...  How are you being compensated?
...  If you are being paid, how much are you being paid?
...  If you are being paid, how are you being paid (e.g. cash, personal check, money order, PayPal, etc.)?
...  If you are being paid, are you also being granted usage license for any of the images?
...  When will you be compensated?
...  If you are working for a TF* session:
     ---  How many images will you be given?
     ---  When will the images be delivered?
     ---  What can you do with the images?  (e.g. usage restrictions)
     ---  Who chooses the images?
     ---  What format will the delivered images be in (e.g. RAW, edited, unedited, watermarked, etc.)?
...  What name / stage name of yours should the photographer use when posting images featuring you?

And so on.  If it is potentially important to you, you should cover it.  More importantly, you should document it (in an e-mail exchange), so that there is no confusion later. 

There is not a lot you can do to make other people behave, but there is a ton of things you can do to manage your own behavior.

I've lived a long time, and I've had my share of misunderstandings like yours.  There isn't a lot you can do after the fact, but there is a lot you can do ahead of time to avoid such misunderstandings.  That's me.  One of my mottoes is "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

Sorry, and good luck with your future endeavors.

+1

JQuest wrote:

You can flip this and say I got hired to shoot one model but when I arrived their were two models there and since the second model drove the first model to the shoot I now have to shoot her as well. They'll split the first models time and it's okay with her because she's paying me. Umm, I think not. I shoot two models I get paid for each unless this arrangement is agreed upon ahead of time.

The OP should have been paid for by both photographers or the 2nd photographer should have been disclosed along with his contribution (the studio) for her to decide ahead of time.

Thanks for the explanation, but honestly I don't relate.

If I am hired to shoot someone in a particular style (e.g. headshots) for 1 hour and when I show up I find out that I am shooting two people for half an hour each I really don't care.  Of course, if I promised to deliver four finished images then they would get four total (not four each).  Why do I care whether I am working with one person or two people (one at a time)?  I am still being paid the same rate for the same amount of time to deliver the same product/service.

I agree that it should be made clear up front that there are two clients rather than one, but in the case that it is not clear I really don't see it as that big a deal.

David Kirk wrote:
Thanks for the explanation, but honestly I don't relate.

If I am hired to shoot someone in a particular style (e.g. headshots) for 1 hour and when I show up I find out that I am shooting two people for half an hour each I really don't care.  Of course, if I promised to deliver four finished images then they would get four total (not four each).  Why do I care whether I am working with one person or two people (one at a time)?  I am still being paid the same rate for the same amount of time to deliver the same product/service.

I agree that it should be made clear up front that there are two clients rather than one, but in the case that it is not clear I really don't see it as that big a deal.

It depends on your business model.  As Victoria so elegantly stated, most creatives make their hay on usage. 

As a photographer, I don't care if they're part of the same shot (Creative Director, decides she wants the guy I'm shooting to appear with a model in the shot, so they hire one).  However, If I show up and there are two people being shot for two entirely different ads, and I'm only being paid for one... well, then we have a problem.

Stella Hart wrote:
So I feel kind of burned right now and I want to know if I was in the wrong so I can avoid it happening in the future. I had a paid shoot yesterday and I showed up and there was one other photographer there and instead of paying my rates he told me he paid for the studio and without him there would have been no shoot, he didn't tell me he wasn't paying me until we already shot. I asked the photographer I was planning to shoot with if it was only us and he said yes so I don't know if it was a last minute type of thing or if they already planned this.  I asked him about being paid for future shoots this morning after he messaged me and said I was extremely appreciative of him paying for the studio but in the same sense I did pay for my makeup and hair to be done and he just called me drama and blocked me so I want to know what to do to avoid this in the future.

Hi Stella,

I'm sorry that this has happened to you.  In my honest opinion, this photographer sounds like a bit of a douchebag to block you after all the trouble that you went through in pulling off the photo-shoot for him.

My advice to you in future is that when a photographer wants to book you, ask him/her upfront if the shoot is paid or a PFT shoot.  If they can't be clear with you about it, just say 'no deal'.  Was the particular photographer a member of Model Mayhem at all? 


Dario

Stella Hart wrote:
So I feel kind of burned right now and I want to know if I was in the wrong so I can avoid it happening in the future. I had a paid shoot yesterday and I showed up and there was one other photographer there and instead of paying my rates he told me he paid for the studio and without him there would have been no shoot, he didn't tell me he wasn't paying me until we already shot. I asked the photographer I was planning to shoot with if it was only us and he said yes so I don't know if it was a last minute type of thing or if they already planned this.  I asked him about being paid for future shoots this morning after he messaged me and said I was extremely appreciative of him paying for the studio but in the same sense I did pay for my makeup and hair to be done and he just called me drama and blocked me so I want to know what to do to avoid this in the future.

As soon as you noticed that there was a 2nd photographer, And he started telling you his financial problems was the time for you to walk out. And say goodbye on the way out with a smile

David Kirk wrote:
If I am hired to shoot someone in a particular style (e.g. headshots) for 1 hour and when I show up I find out that I am shooting two people for half an hour each I really don't care.

You are being way, way too understanding. This is not a choice that should be made unilaterally, behind someone’s back.

Some people, like yourself, would say “no problem”, but others would say "additional people are an extra 100%”, or 50%", or whatever, and then everyone involved can make an informed decision.

Anything less is sleazy and unethical. Both photographers should be ashamed, and if they are on MM, they should be kicked off.

Stella Hart wrote:
So I feel kind of burned right now and I want to know if I was in the wrong so I can avoid it happening in the future. I had a paid shoot yesterday and I showed up and there was one other photographer there and instead of paying my rates he told me he paid for the studio and without him there would have been no shoot, he didn't tell me he wasn't paying me until we already shot. I asked the photographer I was planning to shoot with if it was only us and he said yes so I don't know if it was a last minute type of thing or if they already planned this.  I asked him about being paid for future shoots this morning after he messaged me and said I was extremely appreciative of him paying for the studio but in the same sense I did pay for my makeup and hair to be done and he just called me drama and blocked me so I want to know what to do to avoid this in the future.

What exactly was agreed upon before the shoot?
The studio rental is on the photographer in all my experiences. And does not come out of my pay.
There was one exception to my paying some of the studio costs. That is when I wanted to upgrade to a larger nicer set up and I agreed to get more photo's over and beyond what I was getting paid.
A lot of these kind of problems come about when there is not a good enough understanding of the negotiations. get everything in writing even if it is just a e-mail.
Don't leave any grey area. Make everything very clear of what you expect.