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Getting Models to respond
I have not been contacting models for paid shoots that long. But I have noticed that I have sent emails that I get no responses. When I send out an email I do include info on the session request models rate of pay... ect Am I doing something wrong or is this normal? Or do I need more experience? Also suggestions are welcomed! Thanks Jul 18 16 10:22 am Link Personally, I check out a model before I contact her. I check references, carefully review her portfolio, and so forth. I like to think that I select reliable & responsive models well -- I certainly have a good expectation that I'm choosing active and interesting models, even before I contact them. Next, I look at things from the model's perspective. We don't see or know what you say in your e-mails, but there's a lot I like to communicate to when I contact a model: ... I share my real name and some contact information, ... I share the URL to my website and note that I have a FAQ page there, ... I point to a recent post (of mine) featuring the kinds of images I'd like to try to create, ... I describe the conditions... --- Location --- Length of the shoot --- Model release --- Proposed payment for the session (I prefer to avoid hourly rates -- don't like clock watching) ... What I use the images for Eventually, I will list what she needs to bring to the session. Perhaps as important is what I don't include... ... I don't require a pre-shoot meeting, ... I don't try to be bestest friends, ... I don't require a deposit from the model, ... I don't treat the model as a child, ... I don't treat the model as a child. Remember -- I prescreen models before I contact them. Jul 18 16 12:17 pm Link Keith Payne Photography wrote: It could be that you are picking models who have given up on looking through their PMs for decent work offers; I have heard some horror stories about people being overwhelmed with TFP requests from awful photographers and "U sexy!" mails. There is nothing wrong with your portfolio - it's already at least average for MM - so don't worry about experience. Maybe try putting up some Castings? Jul 18 16 12:30 pm Link OP, more often than not, it's unfortunately normal. I'm assuming you're trying to contact models that's been active in the last 30 days (or more recent). In addition, try searching the casting call and travel notice section since you know they are actively looking for a shoot. Though, just for the heck of it because I was curious, I searched your area and there were only about 3. So, I dunno.  Casting Call: http://tinyurl.com/zvqz9ev Travel/Availability Notice: http://tinyurl.com/zrpuzgd Jul 18 16 12:48 pm Link I'd proof your "about me" blurb to get rid of typos and awkward sentence structure. Maybe post a sample email that you send out here so that we could see if it might raise any red flags. Jul 18 16 12:59 pm Link I see someone told the OP he was average. Damn with faint praise. By the way critiques of any type belong in that forum. Another member does a lot of extra work before he approaches models. That works for him. I don't nor do I ask around about them or check their references or their credit history as a MM photographer mentioned. I ask once and move on. I keep it simple. I don't provide links to outside websites and a FAQ. I don't go into a song and dance about what I plan for our session. Would you like to shoot? It worked for a model I shot yesterday. Just that simple. She said yes, came with some outfits, met me and we had a fun time. OP, sadly many of the models on this site won't reply. Even offers of payment won't always help. I wouldn't share what I say to models publicly. Someone will always find fault and the OP has found and shot MM models so he's doing something right. His question is how to get a response and that can be challenging. I'm shooting a model I reached out to years ago. This is the second model in recent months who has become active again. Here's what I would do create a general casting on your profile with a rate you can afford. Do a block of time rather then an hour. Post on Facebook and Craigslist as well as here. Jul 18 16 01:13 pm Link Keith Payne Photography wrote: Very, very, very normal for MM Jul 18 16 01:24 pm Link Keith Payne Photography wrote: Very normal. As suggested above, try using a Casting Call. It will be seen by those interested in work. Jul 18 16 02:49 pm Link There you have it -- you can choose your "normal". Which "normal" do you want? Jul 18 16 03:38 pm Link Keith Payne Photography wrote: The only way to really figure out if you're doing something wrong would be to see an actual message you have sent out. Other than that we can only speculate. Perhaps you are not offering enough money to make it worthwhile for the model, perhaps the model is not interested in shooting the content you want, it could be anything. In general though, the majority of people on this site, both models and photographers are not professionals and they don't act like professionals. Overall, it's not at all uncommon for models to fail to respond. Jul 18 16 04:15 pm Link FilmmakerDC wrote: "Without a doubt ..." I agree. Note, to OP: I seriously stopped reading at the first sentence on your BIO ... hint, hint. It could be that I'm in California and I would love to be "With out a drought." Jul 18 16 04:43 pm Link If you are restricting your approaches to models who have logged on during the last 4 to 6 weeks and are getting a response rate of 10% or more, you are batting above the average. As a group, the current crop of models do not feel that common courtesy involves replying to messages, even if it is just to decline an offer. Jul 18 16 05:15 pm Link My theory is that in the present economy a lot of models who say that they are on here for the art, creativity, etc etc are really on here only to make big bucks, even the ones who say no nudes and have a total of four pictures in the same outfit. If they don't see the offer for the bucks, which they never get from me, they don't respond. A lot of them have shot with only one photographer who said that it was a way to get rich quickly. I have cut my rejections to zero by not contacting models. Jul 18 16 05:29 pm Link Keith Payne Photography wrote: If you are looking to find a professional model on this website, you are very much looking in the wrong place. There are some but they are few and far between. Jul 18 16 05:42 pm Link OP... its not you, its them Jul 18 16 05:51 pm Link So what are you willing to pay? What are you looking to shoot? Do you have a style that models can use for their book or with an agency? What is your message to the models you are trying to offer? Have you thought to take your images to the critique section to have them reviewed and torn apart? Are you willing to find a couple models to work with TF that will help you develop your style and technique? Do you have a mentor photographer who is well known for the genre you are interested in shooting, so he can help you develop a style? Do you have a presence on this site? Develop a presence by using the announcements and getting people to comment on your work. The key to getting models to work with you TF or paid are hidden within those questions. As others have said there are no easy answers. Jul 18 16 06:43 pm Link First impressions are the most important. Your photography is fine but your grammar is like a fifth grader. If your emails have a similar look that could be the reason of a less than normal percentage of replies. Btw, bring ignored, one response and then nothing, or flaking is just life on MM. You're new here, you'll get used to it. Jul 18 16 07:02 pm Link I've only found one model responsive thus far through MM. Like yourself, messages to others have gone without reply - very rude and unprofessional to me - at least have the courtesy to return the message and say you're not interested. Personally, since I live in a college town (LSU) I've found most of the ladies I've photographed through simply local online ads and (hate to say it) through Craigslist. The LSU student girls have generally been very good to work with and are very excited to do the shoots, the Craigslist ads have resulted in some good shoots and a couple of serious nut jobs that we never bothered getting together with because you could tell they were crazy right off the bat. As for getting the models here to respond, I don't know what it takes, but whatever it is, I haven't found it yet. Jul 19 16 06:10 am Link Tony Lawrence wrote: No, Tony: you need to improve your reading skills. The OP asked if his inexperience could be a problem; I replied that reasonably it shouldn't be as his portfolio - which is how models will judge him - is already at LEAST average. That's rather different - it reassures him that isn't the problem without actually saying how good his work is. Jul 19 16 06:57 am Link W/ the "new & improved" inbox system, MM hasn't made communications between members easy. As proofs check these threads: https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/958493 https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/960335 If the models in question have a site off-MM (like a personal website or FB page), I'd reccommend communicating that way. Its that bad. Jul 19 16 07:25 am Link Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote: And exactly how did you come by this opinion? Jul 19 16 07:30 am Link i had good success with the traveling models. they need the money to fund their trips. i've never had much luck cold-calling a model aside from brand newbies. Jul 19 16 08:00 am Link 3 Primary Factors that improve model responses: 1) The model was active on MM in the last week and works frequently in your area 2) The price/rate is listed first in the title of the email and is commensurate with the models other offers 3) Your avatar is a great photo and compatible of the style of the model Jul 19 16 08:20 am Link Looknsee Photography wrote: Several clues exist. One the OP has worked with MM models who have left him tags so he's doing something right. Another is his complaint is quite common. Certainly not from stellar talents like you but us lessor folks sometimes have problems getting models to respond even for paid shoots. In general I've found that its less about what we say, our work or us. We can't control what others do. If the OP were NOT able to get any MM models to shoot then maybe his messages might be off putting. His work seems competent. I'm guessing his emails are reasoned and sane. His experiences aren't unique. Jul 19 16 11:55 am Link Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote: Looknsee Photography wrote: Tony Lawrence wrote: Some clues exist, but in order to reach that particular opinion ("its not you, its them"), one has to be selective about which clues are examined and has to make assumptions about other clues that are not in evidence. For example: we have no idea how the OP contacts these models and what he has to say. In addition, several people here have offered the unsolicited critique about his profile. Are you saying that these and other factors are irrelevant? Is it always the model's fault? Tony Lawrence wrote: A tag is not a closed deal. A tag is not an agreement to work together. Tony Lawrence wrote: Sadly, true. Doesn't mean that all models are unresponsive. It could just mean that many photographers here like to complain, like to blame other people for their misfortune, and like to chase away models with their approach. The complaint is common, but it is not universal (like "its not you, its them"). Tony Lawrence wrote: Now -- that's a sarcastic personal attack that contributes little to the thread topic. Tony Lawrence wrote: You guys are welcome to believe that your are doom to fail. You all can continue to blame others for your misfortune. But speaking from personal experience, there is something you can do to improve your odds! But like anything else, it might involve a little more work and breaking some old habits. If, however, you just want to send out a casual "Wanna shoot?" e-mail, you shouldn't expect improve results. Jul 19 16 12:34 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote: Looknsee Photography wrote: Tony Lawrence wrote: Some clues exist, but in order to reach that particular opinion ("its not you, its them"), one has to be selective about which clues are examined and has to make assumptions about other clues that are not in evidence. For example: we have no idea how the OP contacts these models and what he has to say. In addition, several people here have offered the unsolicited critique about his profile. Are you saying that these and other factors are irrelevant? Is it always the model's fault? Tony Lawrence wrote: A tag is not a closed deal. A tag is not an agreement to work together. Tony Lawrence wrote: Sadly, true. Doesn't mean that all models are unresponsive. It could just mean that many photographers here like to complain, like to blame other people for their misfortune, and like to chase away models with their approach. The complaint is common, but it is not universal (like "its not you, its them"). Jul 19 16 01:59 pm Link Did you look at the OP profile? The tags I mentioned are from models he worked with. Who's blaming anyone? I said that its likely not the OP who is at fault because there really isn't any. Expecting others to respond to us is often fruitless. Based on my experience and others as well its mostly how things go. Yep, I usually say wanna shoot. As a man of few words but it works a lot. I get to shoot. Sometimes models don't reply but many do. I focus on those that do. I'm a big fan of a book called; The Four Agreements. The author makes the point that what others do is based on their reality. We make personal what isn't. We can never control what others do. The OP has worked with MM models. What can he do to get more to respond to emails? A good question and one many others here wonder and by the way since when is a complement an insult. Of note is the OP pays. His work once again is competent. Maybe he could adopt your methods. I'm sure that will work as you never have flakes and models respond to you Jul 19 16 02:00 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: Yeah, so why did he start this thread? Tony Lawrence wrote: What does "its not you; its them" mean to you? Who is being blamed for the model not responding? Tony Lawrence wrote: I disagree. Well, maybe not "control", but we can certainly "influence" and "inspire". That can make a big difference. Further, we can always control what we ourselves do. If someone isn't satisfied with his results (say, by saying "wanna shoot?"), perhaps he can consider doing something different, trying a new approach, listening to folks who are more successful than the "its not you; its them" crowd. Tony Lawrence wrote: Again with a sarcastic jab? All I know is that if he doesn't change what he's doing, he'll get pretty much the same results as he's already getting. Telling him "its not you; its them" isn't really much of a help, is it? Jul 19 16 02:26 pm Link Looknsee, I didn't CAM your hijack of your own thread and your inference of my being prejudiced against models. If you want to run to the MODS I can do that as well. Jul 19 16 03:29 pm Link Keith, you aren't doing anything wrong. Its just how things kinda are on this site. Another photographer insulted your work that wasn't fair either. Reach out to more models. Use Craigslist and Facebook. IMO keep your opening emails to model basic and to the point which I'm sure you do. Some photographers are going to have better luck. Location and who they know makes a difference. Reach out to MUA and fashion designers. Go to fashion shows. Most of us struggle to find models. Don't let it get you down and again you aren't doing anything wrong. Jul 19 16 03:34 pm Link Keith Payne Photography wrote: Keith, it's definately not you. I think it's just the nature of this 19 year old beast we call modeling! Jul 19 16 04:09 pm Link I've been active on MM for about a month after a period of time away from the site. I never message models directly about a shoot - I'd rather models approached me because that way I can be sure there's at least a seed of enthusiasm on their part. Since 19th June I've received messages from ten models enquiring about a shoot. Three of them I wouldn't shoot for one reason or another but of the remaining seven two have progressed to firm shoot dates and the other five are at various stages of discussion. Whether any of them progress to confirmed shoots depends on the level of enthusiasm demonstrated by the models - I never chase responses etc. That's more interest than I expected to get and to be honest I don't like shooting more than once a month anyway. But you could say I'm more than happy, especially since three of those models really push my buttons, so to speak. I've no idea how that compares with the level of enquiries other photographers get - but I guess a lot depends on peoples' locations. There are only three ways I actively promote myself on the site: 1. A fairly generic casting call open for two to three weeks - models ALWAYS look at castings... 2. A list 'Caught my eye' which I populate with images from the portfolios of models I'd work with if they approached me. 3. Forum activity. That's similar to what I do on other sites too. Interestingly for me, the approaches I've received on MM are more numerous and of much better quality than anything I ever received from what's widely touted to be the UK's most popular modelling site. I'm not sure how useful any of that will be for the OP but you never know. It kinda works for me anyway. PS - I've only had two no-shows ever (and one of them was excusable) and I reckon that's down to only working with models who take the initiative by contacting me first. If the model demonstrates enthusiasm right from the start there's a better than average chance you'll get a shoot in the bag IMO. Jul 19 16 04:37 pm Link Your portfolio and $$$...... or the other way around...... Jul 19 16 05:58 pm Link I'm convinced most of those with model profiles here have no real interest in actually modeling. I get a much better response on Craigslist. (Assuming the flaggers aren't out). Reading profiles for compatibility, contacting only recently active models and of course offering a boat load of money are ways to increase your response rate here. Replying to availability/travel notices will likely get a better response rate than cold contacting, but of course traveling models often want more pay than similar local talent. Jul 19 16 07:14 pm Link Mark makes a good point. Location makes a difference also he has excellent work. So my feeling is art nude models who would like his imagery will contact him and follow through on shoots. Some areas have a more active modeling community. Some photographers have a more appealing style or pay or simply popular. Some like Philiipe do their own hair and make-up and in his case designs really cool art pieces models pose in. When I joined MM there was a female member I thought I knew by her style. I reached out to her via her website and I was correct. This is a world class NY shooter. Well published. Yep, you got it she had flakes and no replies from here and her reason for joining was to give back as she shoots NY agency faces. She's gone but this just isn't a place for serious talent and I for one have no desire to check up on a perspective model. I ask those I like to shoot. Some respond. Others don't. I ask once and move on. I've been approached by models who have flaked. I've had others ask to shoot and come the next day. At least one member has opined the OP could improve his odds with certain tweaks. Maybe but I refer back to the now gone member. Paying even modest amounts can help. Being in some of the local Facebook groups is helpful. Jul 19 16 08:54 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: The thing is I don't get contacted by what I'd describe as established art-nude models very often. Mostly they're models who haven't ticked nude in their profiles and there's no evidence of any nude modelling in their portfolios. That actually suits me because I much prefer to shoot lingerie in a nice setting or something else outdoors anyway. But, for whatever reason, the models who approach me do appreciate the nudes I show in my portfolio - I know that from their comments in the first messages they send me. I think women are just as appreciative of the nude female form as men, perhaps even moreso - even if they don't model nude themselves. Jul 19 16 11:52 pm Link Farenell Photography wrote: This is not an MM thing. You'll get the same on their instagram or facebook. Sep 12 16 07:55 pm Link Keith Payne Photography wrote: Try and choose more experienced models with a proven history and track record. I reply to every mail I receive on the day that it is received and I know many other models here who do the same. Sep 12 16 08:58 pm Link I guess I'm backwards because I seldom have a problem with models responding to messages, which is great but what I have are issues in the reverse. I'll have models contact me about shooting, express what seems to be serious interest, we'll exhange information and are on the verge of booking when *POOF*...they stop responding completely. WTF. Not like I solicited them, my time is taken up and then nothing. Like being catfished. Uggggg...... Sep 12 16 09:06 pm Link Saitama wrote: Not true at all. The communications tools on Facebook run circles around Modelmayhem. If I find someone here that I'd like to shoot with, I try to get their Facebook link so that we can communicate there. The only problem with Facebook is you've got to be careful where you post nudes. Both Facebook and Instagram are FREE and UNLIMITED on the number of images you can post. More people use Facebook, and Instagram. Sep 12 16 11:46 pm Link |
