RRmodel wrote:
I'm trying to learn about RAW and JPEG images - on a TP shoot - is it more likely that an image will be shot in RAW? I have read about how this is beneficial - and my impression so far is that good cameras and photographers like to have more control by shooting in RAW - if I am to be given a lot of images in RAW and not having the equipment myself to edit them - do I need to contact someone to help me prepare them for showing/presenting afterwards? Are these people called 'retouchers?' Thanks

As a model, you'll most likely be receiving finished and retouched JPG images from a collaborative shoot.

If a photographer makes an arrangement with you where you would get the images retouched yourself, then he or she might release the RAW files directly to you, or directly to an approved retoucher. The files can be quite large.

It all really depends on the photographer.

For me, I don't release RAW files and I usually do the retouching myself. On the occasion that I've outsourced retouching, I've sent RAWs to a retoucher who then provides me with a finished TIF or PSD. Then I save that as a JPG and deliver it to the model.

When shooting paid work for clients, then delivery of RAW files is negotiated. The client might not want to deal with it, and may be happy with a final file that's ready to go.

I would guess that most photographers do shoot RAW. Yes I do think it's beneficial.

RAW files are kinda like having well-prepared but uncooked ingredients. They still look great but are basically files meant to be edited based on the photographer's preference. Some shots require very minimal work, and others might benefit from more tweaking.

Retouchers rates vary greatly, and could range anywhere from $10 per image to $100 or much more. Quality of the retoucher's work is something you'd have to scrutinize. You don't want to pay a retoucher to blur your skin into oblivion by using plug-in software with a heavy hand.

So yes it's very likely that your images will be shot in RAW, with an agreed upon number of finished JPG images delivered to you after the shoot.

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K I M I L Y wrote:
Avoid photographers who promise all the images on a DVD or memory stick immediately the shoot finishes - those images will be worthless to a professional model.

K I M I L Y wrote:
Avoid photographers who initially contact you on a modelling site but insist on taking all further communications offsite - be that Facebook or elsewhere. Do not give out your mobile until you have a confirmed shoot with a photographer you know to be reputable.

K I M I L Y wrote:
Always message 2 or 3 models a photographer has worked with directly for a confidential reference. Do not rely on the public references left by models on modelling sites - many of those references are false.

Some models actually prefer to receive all images from a shoot, and some photographers are happy to do it. It's not my way, but it doesn't mean the images will be worthless.

There's nothing wrong with taking communications off-site right away, especially if it makes communicating easier for both parties. It's not necessarily a red flag. I prefer to communicate via email and text and I'm sure there are others that do as well.

It's also perfectly ok to exchange phone numbers before a shoot is confirmed. That's often a vital part of working toward a confirmation. Two parties work out the details and exchange ideas. Sometimes it's via text message or MM, other times it might be through FB or IG.

If someone is worried about giving out their phone number, they can get a free Google Voice number instead. Not sure if/how that works in other parts of the world. My public facing sites list my Google Voice, but after initial contact I'd rather use my real cell.

I'm not so sure references are as valuable as people think they are. I know a girl that modeled for a photographer twice and was very happy with their working relationship. Before their third scheduled shoot, he asked her if she would sit on his face. She showed me the text conversation and it was quite crass.

I've also worked with one model, who I would have given a great reference to, but she completely flaked and blew off our scheduled shoot the second time. A photographer or model might be great with one person, and turn out to be a flake or creeper with another. Use your own judgement. Get references if you wish, but let them be just a small part of your decision making process.

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ChadAlan wrote:
Some models actually prefer to receive all images from a shoot, and some photographers are happy to do it. It's not my way, but it doesn't mean the images will be worthless.

For the most part the models who are happy to do that are inexperienced and think it's the best way to ensure they get something from a shoot, perhaps because they've received nothing from previous TF shoots or they've heard that other models have received nothing. Those images will be worthless to a professional model in most sensible peoples' judgement, although clearly not yours. And, of course, there are plenty of so called 'photographers' who take advantage of an inexperienced model's enthusiasm to receive images immediately in order to gain a shoot they otherwise would not get.

ChadAlan wrote:
There's nothing wrong with taking communications off-site right away, especially if it makes communicating easier for both parties. It's not necessarily a red flag. I prefer to communicate via email and text and I'm sure there are others that do as well.

It's also perfectly ok to exchange phone numbers before a shoot is confirmed. That's often a vital part of working toward a confirmation. Two parties work out the details and exchange ideas. Sometimes it's via text message or MM, other times it might be through FB or IG.

If someone is worried about giving out their phone number, they can get a free Google Voice number instead. Not sure if/how that works in other parts of the world. My public facing sites list my Google Voice, but after initial contact I'd rather use my real cell.

Here in the UK, where the OP is resident, modelling sites actively support members who run into problems with other members but only if communications are kept on the site's messaging system. Otherwise it becomes a he-said vs she-said which is impossible to adjudicate. UK sites will expel members who ultimately do not honour their agreements or level push etc. For inexperienced models particularly it really is a bad idea to get into off site communications and it's widely understood to be a BIG RED FLAG here if a photographer insists on taking all communications off site.

ChadAlan wrote:
I'm not so sure references are as valuable as people think they are. I know a girl that modeled for a photographer twice and was very happy with their working relationship. Before their third scheduled shoot, he asked her if she would sit on his face. She showed me the text conversation and it was quite crass.

I've also worked with one model, who I would have given a great reference to, but she completely flaked and blew off our scheduled shoot the second time. A photographer or model might be great with one person, and turn out to be a flake or creeper with another. Use your own judgement. Get references if you wish, but let them be just a small part of your decision making process.

Public references are, in some cases, dangerous There are many instances of models leaving false positive references which expose inexperienced models particularly to potentially dangerous but certainly unpleasant situations. Some of those models leaving false positives will tell a different story if contacted in person. When that happens then clearly a bullet has been avoided and for that reason alone I personally would never downplay the importance of taking up references directly. Apart from that they often give a valuable insight into the photographer's way of working which helps build an inexperienced model's confidence ahead of a shoot.

K I M I L Y wrote:
For the most part the models who are happy to do that are inexperienced and think it's the best way of ensuring they get something from a shoot, perhaps because they've received nothing from previous TF shoots or they've heard that other models have received nothing. Those images will be worthless to a professional model in most sensible peoples' judgement, although clearly not yours. And, of course, there are plenty of so called 'photographers' who take advantage of an inexperienced model's enthusiasm to receive images immediately in order to gain a shoot they otherwise would not get.

Here in the UK, where the OP is resident, modelling sites actively support members who run into problems with other members but only if communications are kept on the site's messaging system. Otherwise it becomes a he-said vs she-said which is impossible to adjudicate. UK sites will expel members who ultimately do not honour their agreements or level push etc. For inexperienced models particularly it really is a bad idea to get into off site communications and it's widely understood to be a BIG RED FLAG here if a photographer insists on taking all communications off site.

Public references are, in some cases, dangerous There are many instances of models leaving false positive references which expose inexperienced models particularly to potentially dangerous but certainly unpleasant situations. Some of those models leaving false positives will tell a different story if contacted in person. When that happens then clearly a bullet has been avoided and for that reason alone I personally would never downplay the importance of taking up references directly. Apart from that they often give a valuable insight into the photographer's way of working which helps build an inexperienced model's confidence ahead of a shoot.

Nice to hear your insights Kimily.

I am very sensible and know personally of a great model who likes to retouch her own images, and her photographer, who is quite good, is more than happy to oblige and hand over an SD card after the shoot. Surely I didn't state that this was the norm. It's an exception, but handing over images doesn't mean the shots are worthless, or any less professional. It also doesn't mean a so-called photographer is taking advantage of anyone. I myself don't hand over images to anyone but that's just me.

Because the OP's question was posed in a public international forum, it's important to note, for other newbies reading this thread, that there are no absolutes or any inferred meanings behind some of the actions or preferences you stated. What might be considered a BIG RED FLAG in your part of the world, might be nothing more than a communications preference here. If you're getting releases or contracts via email, then there's no need to keep communications on-site as "evidence".

People in the real world have been using email, phone and text to conduct business for years.

And no need for the snide remarks. All I'm doing is offering a respectful difference of opinion.

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ChadAlan wrote:
Nice to hear your insights Kimily.

I am very sensible and know personally of a great model who likes to retouch her own images, and her photographer, who is quite good, is more than happy to oblige and hand over an SD card after the shoot. Surely I didn't state that this was the norm. It's an exception, but handing over images doesn't mean the shots are worthless, or any less professional. It also doesn't mean a so-called photographer is taking advantage of anyone. I myself don't hand over images to anyone but that's just me.

Because the OP's question was posed in a public international forum, it's important to note, for other newbies reading this thread, that there are no absolutes or any inferred meanings behind some of the actions or preferences you stated. What might be considered a BIG RED FLAG in your part of the world, might be nothing more than a communications preference here. If you're getting releases or contracts via email, then there's no need to keep communications on-site as "evidence".

People in the real world have been using email, phone and text to conduct business for years.

And no need for the snide remarks. All I'm doing is offering a respectful difference of opinion.

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I note that your avatar has 'Forum Guide' beneath it. Does that imply that any advice you give in the forum has the backing of the organisation which owns and runs MM? Or is it merely your own opinion with no special significance?

It's just that I regard your advice to inexperienced models, of any nationality, to be rash and ill thought out. That's just my own opinion of course.

K I M I L Y wrote:
I note that your avatar has 'Forum Guide' below it. Does that imply that any advice you give in the forum has the backing of the organisation which owns and runs MM? Or is it merely your own opinion with no special significance?

It's just that I regard your advice to inexperienced models, of any nationality, to be rash and ill thought out. That's just my own opinion of course.

Not at all. I was a forum guide a few years ago and do not consider myself to be one now. I only recently came back to MM and noticed when I posted that it was still there. I even mentioned it in my first or second post back I believe. I would be great if they'd just remove the badge, or if we had a discussion about whether I should act as one. Been too busy to even think about it.

Back on topic.

My opinions are based on many years of successful shoots, both on and off of Model Mayhem, dealing with agencies and agency girls both directly and through their agencies, agency new faces (really inexperienced newbies) PR companies and working with their clients, corporate work, my own experience working with photographers when I worked at several ad agencies, and my personal work with newbies and professionals here on MM.

I'm offering my personal firsthand viewpoint, based on my experiences and that of others that I've talked to and that I know personally. It may not fit with what you believe, and that's ok.

A lot of what you said has merit, and is good information for new models.

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ChadAlan wrote:

Not at all. I was a forum guide a few years ago and do not consider myself to be one now. I only recently came back to MM and noticed when I posted that it was still there. I even mentioned it in my first or second post back I believe. I would be great if they'd just remove the badge, or if we had a discussion about whether I should act as one.

Back on topic.

My opinions are based on many years of successful shoots, both on and off of Model Mayhem, dealing with agencies and agency girls both directly and through their agencies, agency new faces (really inexperienced newbies) PR companies and working with their clients, corporate work, my own experience working with photographers when I worked at several ad agencies, and my personal work with newbies and professionals here on MM.

I'm offering my personal firsthand viewpoint, based on my experiences and that of others that I've talked to and that I know personally. It may not fit with what you believe, and that's ok.
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Well FWIW forums need people who are willing to share their experiences especially with those who are new. Given the range of experience which you've described, and your obvious willingness to share it, I wonder why you'd rather the badge was removed. Wouldn't that be a shame?

I don't agree with what you've said, obviously, but my stance is that if people are made aware of the potential pitfalls, and how they might be avoided, then that's a good thing. At the end of the day people will make their own judgement anyway, hopefully wisely.

K I M I L Y wrote:
Well FWIW forums need people who are willing to share their experiences especially with those who are new. Given the range of experience which you've described, and your obvious willingness to share it, I wonder why you'd rather the badge was removed. Wouldn't that be a shame?

I don't agree with what you've said, obviously, but my stance is that if people are made aware of the potential pitfalls, and how they might be avoided, then that's a good thing. At the end of the day people will make their own judgement anyway, hopefully wisely.

Yes that's a good thing. People will take in all the info presented and adapt for their own needs.

I wish we all had nothing but marvelous experiences to speak of.

I believe that open discussion is important and even though this thread went off-topic, there are good bits of info which may be of value to newbies, whether we agree or not.

I wasn't trying to discount your opinions because they are valid. I added my thoughts with hope that new models wouldn't automatically jump to conclusions. Women are smart and can usually trust their intuition.

Shoot RAW!

Can we agree on that?

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ChadAlan wrote:
Shoot RAW!

Can we agree on that?

Damn you for saying that!

I switched to JPG the other day to shoot some snaps for ebay. Forgot to switch back. Didn't realise until I uploaded images from the next shoot and wondered why it all happened so quickly...

Damn!!

ChadAlan wrote:
Shoot RAW!

Can we agree on that?

K I M I L Y wrote:
Damn you for saying that!

I switched to JPG the other day to shoot some snaps for ebay. Forgot to switch back. Didn't realise until I uploaded images from the next shoot and wondered why it all happened so quickly...

Damn!!

I remember doing something like that once. Wanted to kick myself. I'm always on RAW+JPG now and usually try to check before every shoot while adjusting other settings.

This of off topic but I shot an interview once using external audio and 60p video. Yikes. I was able to speed up the footage by 250% on a 24p timeline and everything synced up perfectly. Now I have notes all over my external recorder for me to check my framerate. Doesn't help that I frequently jump between 24p and 60p on the same shoot, so I need to be extra careful.