FFantastique wrote:
There are about 480 threads that have the term "escort" and I've scanned but didn't find any that indicated that they ENCOURAGED models to bring escorts. Since I didn't find an appropriate one to tack this question, I've decided to start yet ANOTHER escort thread! LOL. My apologies to those who think we already have a plethora--and we undoubtedly do!

I didn't do an analysis but the thread's seem to be NO escort or may be permitted under certain circumstances. There was one thread showing a situation where it was obvious, in retrospect, that she should have brought one. But there seemed to be no clearly positive affirmation of the concept as a routine SOP (Standard Operating Procedure).

My analogy is that while you certainly wouldn't take an escort to a normal job, modeling, the relatively unregulated way we do it, in many respects is not a normal job at all!

The US used to think that our presidents were normal citizens and wanted to treat them as such--and not give them a palace guard--because it looked too imperial. We were so concerned about appearances. After we lost 3 and had a serious attempt by two Puerto Ricans on Truman at Blair House, Congress decided that the temporary Secret Service protection plan needed to be funded permanently. In fact they have protection for life now (there was a period when Senator Lawton Chiles had it stopped because it was so expensive--about $500,000 per month per protectee!)  POTUS is a virtual prisoner being monitored and followed by agents almost ALL the time. Except when they give them the slip.

So the idea that modeling can be treated as normal is like trying to treat POTUS as normal. They simply aiN'T!
Now, I agree, they're not in the same league either. I'm just trying to make the point with an extreme example that the argument that modeling the way MM does it is like a normal job is fallacious. It maybe something that many people are accustomed to, do it routinely, and safely, but very few jobs that I know of require such a loss of physical privacy and removal of all barriers.

I'm not encouraging this practice, merely inquiring.

So back to the title question, does any photographer actually ENCOURAGE models to bring an escort?
If so, why? and with what experience?

Actually, I've seen many postings in the escort threads by various photographers promoting the argument that models should have escorts.  In fact, I've seen enough of it to start to divide such arguments into categories, i.e., sluggo, white knight, "manager", etc..

I do agree that the "normal job" argument is overplayed but even discounting that argument I think there are good reasons to both avoid escorts and advise models against them in most situations.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
Read this photographer's profile. 

https://www.modelmayhem.com/4045645

"...if you feel you need to bring a boyfriend or chaperone, by all means bring him"
is a bit different than "...please bring..."
"...you are encouraged to..."
"...we will not shoot without..."
;-)

BTW, the historical references are not meant as prohibited expressions of political nor religious views nor to encroach nor impinge on any verbotten MM social norms, mores, rules, regulations, laws, express nor implied by the owners, mods, forum guides, etc.

Barry Kidd Photography wrote:
I use to allow them.  Those days are done. 

If a model is worried that I might threaten her, make her feel  uncomfortable, rape her or what ever then it's best we don't shoot anyway.

Exactly!

Overtime there have been so many hubbies, boyfriends, pimps and sluggo's that do everything from want to control the shoot,  to acting like harvard law professors where my model release is concerned.

Couldn't have said it better myself! It's been my experience that photographers who are OK with having an "escort" present on a shoot just haven't been doing it long enough to where they've run into enough problems with them. Sooner or later, they will realize it's a bad idea. While I can understand how a newb photographer can see an "escort" as someone who can hold a reflector or help on set or be the bodyguard for his little princess, once one of them breaks or steals an expensive piece of equipment from you that opinion is likely to change VERY quickly.

I can assure you also, it's just a matter of time until an "escort" ruins your shoot too. It's not "if", it's "when" it happens, and it will happen. I'm speaking from experience here too and for years I personally had a very open policy to "escorts" until I saw the light one day and realized just how stupid I was for years to allow them.

These are just some of the reasons I do not allow "escorts" on my shoots anymore:

- Escorts make shitty sandbags - Escorts need a lot less instruction on holding a reflector than a C-Stand does.
- Escorts distract the model in more ways than can be counted.
- Escorts need babysitting
- Escorts frequently cause shoots to end too soon because they are bored
- Escorts get jealous and have been known to cause fights on the shoot
- Escorts cause models to be late
- Escorts cause models to flake altogether
- Escorts interrupt the creative process of a shoot
- Escorts steal equipment
- Escorts frequently have no clue about anything that takes place on a shoot but always want input ideas or give uneducated "suggestions" as if they know what the fuck they are talking about. Oh yeah, and explain to your insurance company how you have to replace damaged or stolen piece of equipment because the model's jealous boyfriend was on set and stole it or broke it. Yeah, see how well that goes over.

FilmmakerDC wrote:
No photographer in his right mind would ever encourage a model to bring an escort to a shoot.

Some will allow or permit escorts but to encourage? No.

Yyyeppp.

Rays Fine Art wrote:
My suggestion ( and it's in my profile) is that if the model feels it necessary I am always ready to meet in some neutral space such as a coffee shop or food court

I work with other people on a professional basis only. Mixing work and coffee shop dates sounds rather inappropriate to me.

Rays Fine Art wrote:
My suggestion ( and it's in my profile) is that if the model feels it necessary I am always ready to meet in some neutral space such as a coffee shop or food court

TomFRohwer wrote:
I work with other people on a professional basis only. Mixing work and coffee shop dates sounds rather inappropriate to me.

Not at all!  What do you think the dining rooms at the Yale Club are for? 

It's no different (only cheaper) than two businessmen meeting over lunch to discuss a possible merger or two heads of state meeting at the official residence of one or the other.  Many a successful negotiation takes place in a social atmosphere.  In one of my earlier lives I sold real estate where it was not at all uncommon, when showing a number of possibilities to potential buyers, to stop for lunch or even a cup of coffee to work out details of possible offers, financing, etc.  Later, as a marketing manager for a small telecommunications consulting firm, I often hosted luncheons for potential clients and was often entertained the same way by potential service providers.

There's a big difference between a professional meeting, whether at a fancy restaurant or a Starbuck's, and a date and anyone that doesn't know the difference is doomed to both a lousy professional and a lonely social life.

All IMHO as always, of course.

KModel Photography wrote:
Back to the question -- I often encourage models I don't know to bring someone they know to 'assist', with certain conditions of course.  So someone who can help - adding energy with styling, makeup, dressing, lugging gear, holding modifiers or smoke.  I feel this is a good compromise. Only a few take up the offer, but they already feel better that the choice is theirs.  If the shoot is someplace isolated, then I'd wouldn't even ask someone I don't already know.

Here is the thing I've learned about photographers who don't allow escorts on their shoots...at one time in their career, they all allowed escorts on their shoots, myself included. But the longer you work as a photographer shooting models, you start to see that escorts are way more of a liability than an asset. Sure, on paper, it sounds like a great idea to have an extra set of hands on-set to lug gear around...until they break something valuable. Sure it sounds great to have someone there to make the model feel more relaxed...until they distract the model so much that they ruin the shoot. It's like I wrote above...everything sounds great on paper until enough bad things happen...and they WILL happen, that you start to realize that having escorts on a shoot is a rookie move.

I'm not joking when I say that a sandbag on a C-stand does a better job at holding a light or reflector than a model's escort. I've never had a sandbag start messaging on facebook in the middle of a shoot only to have a light get caught by a breeze and fall to the ground and get smashed. Or better yet, wait until the escort steals something of value to you. That will certainly make you change your position REAL fast on the topic.

Koryn wrote:
I've had maybe 5-6 people ask me to bring an escort, in ten years.

I never had anyone who could just drop what they were doing, call out of their jobs, dump their kids off with a babysitter and spend all day driving to and from a shoot, not to mention sitting around for 2-6 hrs while the shoot happened.

I don't recall any of those shoots actually happening. I don't know anyone who doesn't have to work or take care of their own responsibilities

I'm curious - do you remember what their reasoning was for asking you to bring someone?

Rays Fine Art wrote:
Not at all!  What do you think the dining rooms at the Yale Club are for?

For meeting models?

It's no different (only cheaper) than two businessmen meeting over lunch to discuss a possible merger or two heads of state meeting at the official residence of one or the other.

A photoshooting isn't a business merger.
Counterquestion: if you want to hire a plumber - do you make a coffee shop appointment with him/her first?

Some 15 years ago I asked a professional model whether she would meet with me for a preliminary talk in a coffee shop or so. Her answer: "Sorry, but I do not have the time to do so. If you need some more information call me by phone."

Especially for "travelling models" those "coffee shop meetings" seem to be rather unpractical. And the typical pro model arrives with a cabin baggage size suitcase, looks around "where's the MUA?" and starts doing his/her job. Otherwise he/she probalby would get a wigging by his/her model agency.

Many a successful negotiation takes place in a social atmosphere.  In one of my earlier lives I sold real estate where it was not at all uncommon, when showing a number of possibilities to potential buyers, to stop for lunch or even a cup of coffee to work out details of possible offers, financing, etc.

Again: selling/buying real estate plays in a different price tag league than modelling.

There's a big difference between a professional meeting, whether at a fancy restaurant or a Starbuck's, and a date and anyone that doesn't know the difference is doomed to both a lousy professional and a lonely social life.

Definitely. I'm just wondering why the heck a model can come up with the idea that somebody who might abuse a photo shooting for indecent purposes couldn't do so as well with a coffee shop meeting... And who has really inappropriate intentions most probably will not be so stupid to display them at a Starbuck's...

If somebody however thinks he/she can reveal the molestor, the rapist or the serial killer by a side trip to a coffee shop...

Believe me - this is not a sustainable safety concept. ;-)

TomFRohwer wrote:
Believe me - this is not a sustainable safety concept. ;-)

I absolutely agree.  At most it is part of a package of safety practices that may include:
Checking references.  (Really checking them not just noting that they've been posted in a profile)
Googling the other party for any negative reviews, incidents, etc.
Arriving at a clear and complete agreement on all elements of the shoot, whether in person, by messaging or phone conversation.
Letting someone else know where you'll be, with whom-real name, not just "SXYHarry" or some such, when you expect to arrive and leave. and confirming  both your arrival and safe departure.
Googling the location of the shoot to attempt to determine if it's in a safe neighborhood (whatever that means to you)
Calling that person in the presence of the photographer to let him know that someone has your back
etc.

These are all useful techniques, all are likely to do more for the model's safety than bringing an escort, and none of them is truly enough in and of itself.  The really smart independent model will use most, if not all of them in deciding what shoots to accept and which ones to decline.   And the effectiveness of any or all of them depends on one final technique---being ready to walk away at any point if the shoot veers beyond what has been agreed upon.

And, yes, I use the first three before engaging any tradesman.  And plumbers, etc. are coming to my location rather than me to theirs so they are the ones theoraticlly at risk.

All IMHO as always, of course.

MatureModelMM wrote:
Quite a few of the photographers I know always have a female assistant, which is done for the same reasons a model would want to bring someone along.  This is most likely the best solution whenever possible.

ontherocks wrote:
my wife and i worked together on all the shoots. i remember one shoot with a paying customer where i had to hide in the bathroom while my wife did the camera work for the racy part of the shoot.

You have to make sure the paying customer is comfortable, so it sounds like you did the right thing by not being in the studio.  Maybe not hiding in the bathroom, though, but going somewhere away from where the photography was taking place.

Over the years I have posed for several couples who worked together as photographers or artists. It has always been a good situation. Most of them were married, I can think of one female couple and one male couple as well.

Greg Kolack wrote:

I'm curious - do you remember what their reasoning was for asking you to bring someone?

I don't think anyone ever provided a rationale.

I'd suspect they were paranoid about models accusing them of inappropriate behavior or Something.

Koryn wrote:

I don't think anyone ever provided a rationale.

I'd suspect they were paranoid about models accusing them of inappropriate behavior or Something.

I think that this is the probable reason.

SunshineModels wrote:
I don't have a problem with female escorts, if I feel comfortable with them.