Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > Hernandez Dead in Cell

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Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

Hanged himself.
I was kind of shocked but not surprised hearing that a few minutes ago.

What went wrong with this guy.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/21/justice/a … index.html

Anger management may have been a good thing for him.

Apr 19 17 06:13 am Link

Photographer

Looknsee Photography

Posts: 26342

Portland, Oregon, US

There is no perspective on Hernandez's story that isn't tragic.

Apr 19 17 07:59 am Link

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Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

Looknsee Photography wrote:
There is no perspective on Hernandez's story that isn't tragic.

Yes indeed.
I wonder if he had mental illness.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/in-a … why-041715

Apr 19 17 08:15 am Link

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Julie Ann NYC

Posts: 714

New York, New York, US

Was just talking about this today with my significant other. All the guy had to do was play football and behave himself and he threw his life away.

I would never celebrate the death of another human being but this is definitely a SMDH story.

Apr 19 17 10:06 am Link

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Mr. Tengu

Posts: 388

New York, New York, US

Jules NYC wrote:
Hanged himself.
I was kind of shocked but not surprised hearing that a few minutes ago.

What went wrong with this guy.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/21/justice/a … index.html

Anger management may have been a good thing for him.

Prison can cause or hugely amplify mental illness... It's not like you can't leave your living room for a while... it's a completely different world and extremely hard to comprehend for people who have not been in this situation.

Just like it's almost impossible to understand the bond that war veterans have. Unless you have been in very similar situations, it's only understandable on a superficial and intellectual level... but the emotions that are coming with it... and stresses, you only understand if you've been there, or extremely close.

Similar to reading about swimming, the techniques, the training of world class athletes... but unless you have been training yourself, been in the water, been on the starter block, had to jump and swim your laps, while trying to be faster and hitting the end... and placing for a medal... it's very hard to really know how that feels...

So, I am not surprised that Hernandez committed suicide... after all.. we don't really know the truth, because the prosecution, the ones that publish their findings releases only their version... and... I ... just... don't... trust... them!

Apr 19 17 12:37 pm Link

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Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

Mr. Tengu wrote:
Prison can cause or hugely amplify mental illness... It's not like you can't leave your living room for a while... it's a completely different world and extremely hard to comprehend for people who have not been in this situation.

Just like it's almost impossible to understand the bond that war veterans have. Unless you have been in very similar situations, it's only understandable on a superficial and intellectual level... but the emotions that are coming with it... and stresses, you only understand if you've been there, or extremely close.

Similar to reading about swimming, the techniques, the training of world class athletes... but unless you have been training yourself, been in the water, been on the starter block, had to jump and swim your laps, while trying to be faster and hitting the end... and placing for a medal... it's very hard to really know how that feels...

So, I am not surprised that Hernandez committed suicide... after all.. we don't really know the truth, because the prosecution, the ones that publish their findings releases only their version... and... I ... just... don't... trust... them!

Hey Udor!

hummmmm

I completely agree that prison life can turn you into a mental mess but from what I've read, he had anger problems and a short fuse well before his prison time.

I've been angry before.... so has everyone.  He had a terrible sense of coping skills.  So much so that he'd go from -0- to "I'll kill you" in seconds over the slightest thing.  I can understand crimes of passion (not that I advocate it or anything) but I get it.  These murders were anything but.  He went from 0 to 60 in rage-o-miles.

That has to be some deep, dark shit.

If I were to jump inside his head for a moment... knowing he'd NEVER get a position with the Patriots again... knowing they had a meeting at the White House (same day he killed himself)... knowing he'd never well get out for his life sentence and getting about 5 years tacked on due to the illegal possession.... hummm 

Then if he had any legal advice (which he did) I wonder if he knew that the law is set in MA (and other states) that since he can't defend his appeal as he's dead... the murder case is dropped and his family may still get his football $. 

... but wait, all the civil suits and he'd never be able to be free again.

Shit, mental illness or not, that has to make you contemplate your fate.

Two of the men Hernandez is charged with killing were shot in a drive-by about six weeks before Hernandez signed a five-year, $40 million contract with the Patriots.

5/30/14
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/aaron-hern … d=23938579

Apr 19 17 12:54 pm Link

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Mr. Tengu

Posts: 388

New York, New York, US

Jules NYC wrote:

Hey Udor!

hummmmm

I completely agree that prison life can turn you into a mental mess but from what I've read, he had anger problems and a short fuse well before his prison time.

I've been angry before.... so has everyone.  He had a terrible sense of coping skills.  So much so that he'd go from -0- to "I'll kill you" in seconds over the slightest thing.  I can understand crimes of passion (not that I advocate it or anything) but I get it.  These murders were anything but.  He went from 0 to 60 in rage-o-miles.

That has to be some deep, dark shit.

If I were to jump inside his head for a moment... knowing he'd NEVER get a position with the Patriots again... knowing they had a meeting at the White House (same day he killed himself)... knowing he'd never well get out for his life sentence and getting about 5 years tacked on due to the illegal possession.... hummm 

Then if he had any legal advice (which he did) I wonder if he knew that the law is set in MA (and other states) that since he can't defend his appeal as he's dead... the murder case is dropped and his family may still get his football $. 

... but wait, all the civil suits and he'd never be able to be free again.

Shit, mental illness or not, that has to make you contemplate your fate.

Two of the men Hernandez is charged with killing were shot in a drive-by about six weeks before Hernandez signed a five-year, $40 million contract with the Patriots.

5/30/14
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/aaron-hern … d=23938579

Yep, Julie!

If you are in that situation and, as you did so well, put yourself into his head and outlook... combine that with lack of coping skills and violent character traits... that's just getting amplified (as I've stated) in prison even more...

Prison has a huge impact on an individual's psyche... and only the mentally strongest come out and will be able to adjust to normal life (on the street) fully again... it's a bad cycle!

Apr 19 17 01:07 pm Link

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Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

Mr. Tengu wrote:

Yep, Julie!

If you are in that situation and, as you did so well, put yourself into his head and outlook... combine that with lack of coping skills and violent character traits... that's just getting amplified (as I've stated) in prison even more...

Prison has a huge impact on an individual's psyche... and only the mentally strongest come out and will be able to adjust to normal life (on the street) fully again... it's a bad cycle!

I think any lack of freedom would be absolutely devastating to one's mind.
I couldn't imagine how bad it could be (I'm a documentary junkie) until I seen it myself.

Apr 19 17 01:11 pm Link

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Mr. Tengu

Posts: 388

New York, New York, US

Jules NYC wrote:

I think any lack of freedom would be absolutely devastating to one's mind.
I couldn't imagine how bad it could be (I'm a documentary junkie) until I seen it myself.

Yeah... imagine every day the same routine, with a few minor changes...

Same people, same conversations... always looking over your shoulder, unable to trust anybody because there are predators (not just sexual, but trying to take your food or goodies away)... You don't notice this... but you get habits and routines that may never go fully away later on.

It all depends on the duration of the stay, of course... six months is different from 3 years... as it is different from 10 years...

You have often discussion with people with similar educational background, and you think that you are doing okay... but once you get back on the street... you have problems expressing yourself... often lacking the words to say what is on your mind, because you are not in that routine anymore and you have more outside impressions and a much wider variety of things to discuss, which you haven't done in years...

So, yeah... prison changes people and it is mostly a huge head trip, but people make the best out of it. The organization I used to volunteer with (now I volunteer with the NY chapter of the ACLU) helped recently released inmates to find their way back into society with counseling, job interview training, computer skills training etc., gave me a great insight in addition to other experiences into what's going on there...

Not to get political... but there must be a prison reform... way overdue... but the privatization is counter productive to justice, as it is big business... and the current administration is reversing the stance of the previous administration to curtail the private for profit prison industry... Now, it's even more encouraged... which will result in even more prisons, more inmates, more criminalization of citizens, just to put have prisons full, as the states giving often 85 to 100% occupancy guarantees and tax breaks to those private companies, so that they open prisons in the desolate rural areas of huge poverty to get jobs into those areas... It's sad!

Btw., NYCLU (NY-ACLU) organized a lobbying day of action on March 13th in Albany (I was the photographer) and one of the issues was to reform and fund the public defender system in New York State. Some counties are so underfunded and understaffed... that the average public defender had an annual case load up to 460 cases... which leads to extremely ineffective legal representation of the poor... Heck, in some offices, 3 to 4 public defenders had to share one computer and vehicles.

Anyway, our efforts got rewarded by a court over a week ago... and now they public defender system in NYS will be completely overhauled, gets funding and the public defenders will be specifically trained and the case load is going to be around 140 per year. borat

Apr 19 17 02:25 pm Link

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GK photo

Posts: 31025

Laguna Beach, California, US

Jules NYC wrote:
What went wrong with this guy.

everything that can go wrong with coddled/enabled types, from any field. how many artists, star athletes, politicians, etc have people been fucked by throughout the ages. talent never equates to humanity.

the difference with this lout was that he was a homicidal psychopath on top of all that.

good riddance...he saved the commonwealth of ma a few hundred thousand today. sadly, that's probably the best contribution to society that he ever gave.

Apr 19 17 08:45 pm Link

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Chuckarelei

Posts: 11271

Seattle, Washington, US

Don't feel sorry for him. He killed someone, it's only right that he himself is killed too.

Apr 19 17 10:26 pm Link

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Keith Moody

Posts: 548

Phoenix, Arizona, US

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. -- Baretta.

Apr 19 17 10:37 pm Link

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LeboGraphics

Posts: 165

BRONX, New York, US

The whole story is terribly sad and disturbing. Almost like he had a death wish.
I read that unlike other successful players who come from hardscrabble places and work to escape them, Hernandez came from a relatively comfortable home, with two loving parents (even though his father died when he was 16), and he brought his thug friends with him. He never hung out the other Patriots, but kept gravitating to his old gang buddies. The more successful he became, the more violent he became, shooting and killing people over spilled drinks and minor insults. It's almost like he was not strong enough to fight against the lure of evil, and it completely enveloped him.

I heard comparisons with the OJ Simpson story, but I think this is much worse, since you could say OJ acted in an instance of passion (assuming you believe he did it), but Hernandez was much more cold and pre-meditated.

Apr 20 17 04:52 am Link

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Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

Aaron Hernandez reportedly found with ‘John 3:16’ written on his forehead

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life”

On that note, if you believe in Allah, you have 72 virgins waiting for you in heaven.

Apr 20 17 05:22 am Link

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Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

LeboGraphics wrote:
The whole story is terribly sad and disturbing. Almost like he had a death wish.
I read that unlike other successful players who come from hardscrabble places and work to escape them, Hernandez came from a relatively comfortable home, with two loving parents (even though his father died when he was 16), and he brought his thug friends with him. He never hung out the other Patriots, but kept gravitating to his old gang buddies. The more successful he became, the more violent he became, shooting and killing people over spilled drinks and minor insults. It's almost like he was not strong enough to fight against the lure of evil, and it completely enveloped him.

I heard comparisons with the OJ Simpson story, but I think this is much worse, since you could say OJ acted in an instance of passion (assuming you believe he did it), but Hernandez was much more cold and pre-meditated.

Crimes of passion are usually FAR more violent than what Hernandez accomplished.  I'm biased though, I watch Forensic Files & pretty much every show on Investigation Discovery there is (can't get enough of such, I find it incredibly interesting).

I think what you said is true but I think Hernandez was more than self-destructive, I think he had mental illness.  Throw in a personality disorder in there somewhere at least before any success came to him.

Apr 20 17 05:27 am Link

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Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

Mr. Tengu wrote:
Yeah... imagine every day the same routine, with a few minor changes...

Same people, same conversations... always looking over your shoulder, unable to trust anybody because there are predators (not just sexual, but trying to take your food or goodies away)... You don't notice this... but you get habits and routines that may never go fully away later on.

It all depends on the duration of the stay, of course... six months is different from 3 years... as it is different from 10 years...

You have often discussion with people with similar educational background, and you think that you are doing okay... but once you get back on the street... you have problems expressing yourself... often lacking the words to say what is on your mind, because you are not in that routine anymore and you have more outside impressions and a much wider variety of things to discuss, which you haven't done in years...

So, yeah... prison changes people and it is mostly a huge head trip, but people make the best out of it. The organization I used to volunteer with (now I volunteer with the NY chapter of the ACLU) helped recently released inmates to find their way back into society with counseling, job interview training, computer skills training etc., gave me a great insight in addition to other experiences into what's going on there...

Not to get political... but there must be a prison reform... way overdue... but the privatization is counter productive to justice, as it is big business... and the current administration is reversing the stance of the previous administration to curtail the private for profit prison industry... Now, it's even more encouraged... which will result in even more prisons, more inmates, more criminalization of citizens, just to put have prisons full, as the states giving often 85 to 100% occupancy guarantees and tax breaks to those private companies, so that they open prisons in the desolate rural areas of huge poverty to get jobs into those areas... It's sad!

Btw., NYCLU (NY-ACLU) organized a lobbying day of action on March 13th in Albany (I was the photographer) and one of the issues was to reform and fund the public defender system in New York State. Some counties are so underfunded and understaffed... that the average public defender had an annual case load up to 460 cases... which leads to extremely ineffective legal representation of the poor... Heck, in some offices, 3 to 4 public defenders had to share one computer and vehicles.

Anyway, our efforts got rewarded by a court over a week ago... and now they public defender system in NYS will be completely overhauled, gets funding and the public defenders will be specifically trained and the case load is going to be around 140 per year. borat

How insightful Udor.

It also says a lot about your character how you volunteered for such a cause.  My sister-in-law did some of that due to her job but it wasn't volunteer work and part of the gig.  It was for the governor but they shut the program down due to it not working.  Oddly, the people they were helping completely screwed it up by stealing I think.

I truly wonder how much adversity one has to face to be 'broken'.  I've known some pretty rough and tumble types in my life and the strongest ones never gave up the 'fight'.  By fight, I mean hope for the future, never breaking, just keep moving on.

There were MANY witnesses to one of his murders.  Should I say 'alleged', no.  How can you appeal that unless you're claiming mental illness/insanity even temporary insanity?

It would have helped if he had medical proof he was such, or stayed in a psych ward for some time.  That's good cause to argue a case but maybe he just knew he didn't have a shot.

I'm sure this point will be a great topic of discussion for lawyers:

The change in Hernandez’s legal status could force the Patriots to pay his family $3.25 million in signing-bonus money they have withheld in the wake of the charges against him in three murders, and the NFL might similarly be compelled to make pension payments to Hernandez’s family.

Apr 20 17 05:34 am Link

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Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

GK photo wrote:

everything that can go wrong with coddled/enabled types, from any field. how many artists, star athletes, politicians, etc have people been fucked by throughout the ages. talent never equates to humanity.

the difference with this lout was that he was a homicidal psychopath on top of all that.

good riddance...he saved the commonwealth of ma a few hundred thousand today. sadly, that's probably the best contribution to society that he ever gave.

Was Hernandez coddled?  I didn't do that kind of research on him.  His Dad died when he was 16 I believe and he was just a well-known athlete in Bristol, CT.

THIS is coddled (fiction but you get my point):

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.1ItOLxlxBnII73HDyDYeKgD9Es&pid=15.1

Apr 20 17 05:40 am Link

Photographer

Managing Light

Posts: 2678

Salem, Virginia, US

GK photo wrote:

everything that can go wrong with coddled/enabled types, from any field. how many artists, star athletes, politicians, etc have people been fucked by throughout the ages. talent never equates to humanity.

the difference with this lout was that he was a homicidal psychopath on top of all that.

good riddance...he saved the commonwealth of ma a few hundred thousand today. sadly, that's probably the best contribution to society that he ever gave.

Take a guy who is well along the path to being a sociopath - with a hair-trigger temper and not afraid to do violence - then have him make the pros so he feels he can walk on water...

Apr 20 17 02:03 pm Link

Artist/Painter

LeboGraphics

Posts: 165

BRONX, New York, US

So the newest information on Aaron Hernandez is that he killed himself knowing that, due to a strange, arcane law, his guilty sentence for first degree murder would be vacated if he died without the chance to appeal. His final note to his fiancee included the last words: "YOU'RE RICH"

https://goo.gl/wecXT8

Seems he might be right: Because he is now declared innocent, the Patriots might have to pay millions of dollars to his fiancee which they previously withheld because of his conviction.

It was also reported that he wrote "John 3:16" on his forehead in ink and on the walls of his cell in blood, left his bible open to that same verse with a blood stain next to it, and put circles of blood on his feet, possibly in imitation of the stigmata of Jesus Christ. The verse referenced by John 3:16 is: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
https://goo.gl/rtk1Gl

https://goo.gl/r7gcz8

Granted, Hernandez was a cold-blooded killer deeply enmeshed with the notorious Bloods gang. But was his last act one of cowardice or sacrifice? Likely, he saw his death as the latter, modeled crudely after the sacrifice of Jesus, providing, in place of salvation, a generous financial award to some people he left behind.

So I am wondering, in response to the original question of the OP:
--Does this gives you more insight into Hernandez?
--Does it change your view of him in any way?
--What might you have done if you were in his place at the end...knowing you are worth more dead than alive?

May 10 17 07:55 pm Link

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Lovely Day Media

Posts: 5885

Vineland, New Jersey, US

Many football players die suddenly or kill themselves. His is unique as he was in jail at the time and most of them aren't. I don't know what drove him to commit the original crime (if he did it) but I have heard it was a gang affiliation. For those who believe such a thing, the bible says that bad associations spoil useful habits (1Cor. 15:33) Maybe they only charged him because of this affiliation, but he landed in jail, anyway.

As was stated before, his case was under appeal but hadn't been heard yet so by him dying, he's "innocent" in a court of law and so, unless they fight it and win somehow, the Patriots will owe the rest of his contract to his estate.

The NFL is supposedly beefing up research and safety equipment to protect the head. They're enforcing rules like never before, too. In the old days, a receiver who went across the middle was liable to get their bell rung whether they caught the ball or not. Now, if they go for the ball but don't get it, they are "defenseless" and anyone who lays them out (Ronnie Lott style) is getting fined and possibly suspended.

Whatever the case, it's a shame that he's gone and in such a way. Many guys would LOVE to be NFL players. He was but gave it up. sad

May 10 17 10:22 pm Link

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Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

LeboGraphics wrote:
So I am wondering, in response to the original question of the OP:
--Does this gives you more insight into Hernandez?
--Does it change your view of him in any way?
--What might you have done if you were in his place at the end...knowing you are worth more dead than alive?

Talk to a troubled man and he'll have a lot to say about God.
Seriously.

Gee, my years of Catholic schooling and Jesuit collegiate experience will kick in...

I've had my run-ins with people in need of 'saving'.  When I could help, I did, but it sure didn't make me Jesus.

Some doctors play God, some lawyers too - really anyone that can wield a great deal of power over another person or people in general can acquire a God-complex.  Sure, Jesus befriended the lepers and prostitutes... "Jesus loves all and died for our sins."  Whatever one's religious preference/allegiance is, to use the bible and its quotes as justification for violent actions is absurd.  The bible is violent yet I digress...

I live in CT these days.  I grew up in CT.  It's a small state; people know each other.  Aaron H. has always been a troubled jerk looking for a fight.  My boyfriend had some choice words for him; people 'knew' him.  I didn't.  All I know is what anyone else does from the media.  I don't particularly buy the gay lover thing.  Possible, I just don't buy it.  I think Aaron wanted to be remembered for being a great man who scarified for his family, the people, the lord.

More religious references - I did read Aaron's suicide note earlier and had the same reaction.  You are not Jesus.  You don't even resemble anything to do with what he stands for.  The only sins he died for were his own.  He's not a hero, not to his fiancée ("you're rich" - ok buddy), not to anyone.

As for his estate, it may be drained financially, including the million plus dollar house his fiancée has ownership of?  Think of the civil suits that are coming, etc.  Nothing is guaranteed in life or death.  Wills can be contested, estates can be divvied in ways that seem terribly unfair.  If you're dead, you can't oversee what your master plan was.

This is a very interesting question: " --What might you have done if you were in his place at the end...knowing you are worth more dead than alive?"

Hummm, again, nothing is guaranteed.  The people who are worth dead are icons like Elvis, Prince, Marilyn Monroe, etc. whose merchandising supersedes probably what they made in life.  Hernandez had a fabulous contract but it's still up in the air if the Patriots are obligated to pay his family monies after his death. In life he didn't collect much. There is even talk about the dismissed murder charge being overturned.

As for me, I love life.  If I were crazy enough to kill someone (that's why I don't have a gun in the house - sorry, my dark humor), I wouldn't do well in prison. It's the very loss of freedom that would terrify me to do anything on that level.  Killing someone is NOT in my nature.  If I were in this hypothetical situation, I wouldn't kill myself, I'd put myself in a selfless position, even in prison.  If the money is gone for Hernandez, seems even more of a selfish position he took, in suicide for his kids, family... even for the grieving family of Odin Lloyd.

Next time you talk to someone who just completed A.A. or finished any kind of rehab program or has been battling heroin or something of the like, I'm sure you'll hear about God before you bring it up.  If you live in New York City for any substantial amount of time, you'll hear a lot of religious rants, from the homeless, the mentally ill and groups with a megaphone.

For those who have a genuine relationship with Jesus/God, Hernandez's choice in death wasn't a sacrifice to anyone but himself.  If God forgives all for anything (sorry, specifically Jesus), then he'll be forgiven in Heaven.

If that's true, then geez, just do as you will then.  I don't think killing anyone will be on my bucket list.

Maybe in Boston they will have a great reveal after studying his brain.  "He was mentally ill!" Well, if that's the case, would you feel empathy for him if he killed a member of YOUR family? 

SVU had a great episode on a kid having -0- conscience, so they named the episode that.
http://lawandorder.wikia.com/wiki/Conscience_%28SVU%29

Check it out on Couchtuner.com if you have the time to kill.  I'm on board with Dr. Morton..

Stabler: You manipulated us just like Jake did.

Dr. Morton: There's one big difference.
Jake would've killed again. I won't.

May 11 17 06:22 am Link

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Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

May 12 17 01:20 pm Link

Artist/Painter

LeboGraphics

Posts: 165

BRONX, New York, US

Jules NYC wrote:
http://www.newsgrio.com/?p=76294

Fiancée will be on Dr. Phil 5/15 & 5/16.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL0J3aAaaKg

Kinda sounds sensationalistic. I'm not sure of the point of having her on that show (other than ratings for Dr. Phil).

May 13 17 07:24 pm Link

Artist/Painter

LeboGraphics

Posts: 165

BRONX, New York, US

As for me, I love life.  If I were crazy enough to kill someone (that's why I don't have a gun in the house - sorry, my dark humor), I wouldn't do well in prison. It's the very loss of freedom that would terrify me to do anything on that level.  Killing someone is NOT in my nature.  If I were in this hypothetical situation, I wouldn't kill myself, I'd put myself in a selfless position, even in prison.  If the money is gone for Hernandez, seems even more of a selfish position he took, in suicide for his kids, family... even for the grieving family of Odin Lloyd.

For those who have a genuine relationship with Jesus/God, Hernandez's choice in death wasn't a sacrifice to anyone but himself.  If God forgives all for anything (sorry, specifically Jesus), then he'll be forgiven in Heaven.

If that's true, then geez, just do as you will then.  I don't think killing anyone will be on my bucket list.

Maybe in Boston they will have a great reveal after studying his brain.  "He was mentally ill!" Well, if that's the case, would you feel empathy for him if he killed a member of YOUR family? 

SVU had a great episode on a kid having -0- conscience, so they named the episode that.
http://lawandorder.wikia.com/wiki/Conscience_%28SVU%29

Stabler: You manipulated us just like Jake did.

Dr. Morton: There's one big difference.
Jake would've killed again. I won't.

I agree with you: Hernandez making himself out to be a sacrifice was a bit egotistical on his side. Or a big excuse to make him feel better about what he was about to do. If he had bequeathed any money he got to Odin Lloyd's family or the other two people he probably shot and killed, then it might carry more weight. There are times in religious traditions when one might choose to be a martyr, but it's never over money. From the perspectives of the major religions, life cannot be quantified.

Also, I think his daughter would probably be better off with a living father in prison than one who killed himself. Of course, the first road is awful too. But at least there is someone else out there who loves her, even if he will be incarcerated for the rest of his life. It's easy for me to speak of course - facing life in prison is a horrifying prospect...

May 13 17 07:36 pm Link