FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY wrote:
Not to veer off topic in the first post but the Coffee is good this morning and I feel this a Geographical question.

$150,000.00 per year in NYC isn't going to go as far as it does here in Fayette County, Pennsylvania or wherever You are in the World. The 'good money' is the amount You have to spend / save after expenses...

Let's just say the Tri-state area (NY, CT, NJ).  They are all expensive. I live in CT now.
I'm very curious what other people from other parts of the country here and world think.

Mike Collins wrote:
I think as a single person and living in an average town (Not places like NY, LA or San Fran), $60,000 is a very comfortable amount.  You'd be able to live in a nice place, rented or buying, and be able to drive a new(er) car and be able to eat good food and have nice clothing.   And still be able to save some money.  But I also think that is for someone who is at least a little smart with their money.   

Anyone can make any amount work.  Maybe not minimum wage, but who knows.  I made min wage as a young adult.  Had a roommate and a 10 year old car.  Funny enough, I think I was happier then then now!  No debt.  No worries. 

Depends on their lifestyle.  But where most people go wrong is that they spend for the lifestyle they want and find out later their paycheck doesn't allow for that.  That's why we have sooooo much debt.  We want things we really can't afford.  And probably don't really need either.

Florida is less expensive than the Northeast for sure!  ... unless you live in Naples from what I understand. Costs more to live there than Greenwich, CT.

I've been looking around at rents in CT and am well, astounded!

rick lesser wrote:
Interesting question.  I have been so focused on making enough for the monthly bills, expenses and a few extras I haven't thought much about the end of the year. Let alone my elderly years.  Which is not good.  I have been living for over thirty years with the belief  it will come when I need it.  And it always has.  Auto pilot as it were.  Now that I am older I fear I should have planned a lot better and believed a lot more in how much I needed to make!  So to answer the question:  I am making enough to get by, save some, spend some, one trip a year some and not anywhere close to having enough to feel safe.  I thought I was happy until I read the question!  Crap...!!! This question has now motivated me to move forward with my new business.  If all goes well the yearly income will become way more then getting by with a little extra!  R-

It's crazy what I thought was 'good money' until I thought about my future more.  To invest, to get a house, to truly think of the future.  I even looked at what I'd be making with Social Security and thought, "Shit, that's not enough!" even if I have a house paid for!

FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY wrote:
Not to veer off topic in the first post but the Coffee is good this morning and I feel this a Geographical question.

$150,000.00 per year in NYC isn't going to go as far as it does here in Fayette County, Pennsylvania or wherever You are in the World. The 'good money' is the amount You have to spend / save after expenses...

Coffee is ALWAYS good to talk about.
Coffee is a geographical consideration too .

Michael Bots wrote:
Good in relation to what?


In costly Bay Area, even six-figure salaries are considered ‘low income’
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/04/22/i … ow-income/


In parts of the Bay Area, $105,350 is 'low income'
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/B … 094978.php

I went to school in San Fran, so I so 'get this' information.
I'm just asking a simple question, "What do you think is good money?"

Maybe I should have said additionally, "for YOU".

Koryn wrote:
I currently make $17/hr (plus bonuses and perks that probably push it closer to $20/hr overall) as a personal trainer at a private higher-end training studio that caters to wealthy "old money" people in my area. To me, that is VERY good money and a lot more than I have ever earned at any mainstream job. For fitness industry in my area, it's outstanding. At my last training job, I was essentially doing the same thing but earning only $12/hr and was refused for a raise. Let's just say they really hated to see me go.

If I lived in another area of the US with a larger fitness industry, and ran my own studio, I'd expect to eventually earn in the $70,000-80,000/year range. But that requires a huge amount of investment capital, sales and marketing skills and having the ability to look "like a trainer." I'm 5 feet tall and tiny; people are generally surprised to find out what I do for a living. I'm not sure how to look more "like a trainer," but I think it has to do with hair styles and maintaining the sort of styling you see on physique model magazine covers. That's a lot of make-up and hair for a job that requires me to get up at 3am as it is, and work 12-14 hr days.

I'd like to work for myself someday and earn the "big bucks" (big bucks for fitness industry is different from, say, big bucks for software developers) but I am keeping realistic about it. My industry resume is outstanding; I have a lot of experience working with elderly, disabled, pregnant and post-partum moms. I'm just not the sort of person potential clients look at and think, "That person is a talented trainer." I think a lot of it is that I absolutely cannot find clothing that fits me in a way that is both modest and figure-flattering. My proportions are kind of bizarre. Looks actually create a marketing problem for me.

But, long term....an $80,000/year income running my own studio...that would be amazing

That's a very honest answer, thanks!
I always thought 80K or more was 'good money'.

Breaking six figures, that's getting to great money (imho).
Not in Manhattan or San Fran of course but anywhere really.

I always thought whatever $ you make, if you can make a leap in LIFESTYLE, then what may be ho-hum to one person would be outstanding to another.

Additionally, if you've made a lower income before, or have freelanced (however it averaged during the year), making more is surely more of a delight when it happens.

P.S. 12 to 17 an hour is a good leap.  That's a great thing.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
I tend to think all money is good money.   Even a year end royalty check for a few hundred bucks from photos submitted years sgo is good money.  If it's legal and tender, it's good. 

I'm not so sure about that funny Canadian currency however. I think that might just be glorified Monopoly money.

All money IS good money.

I ask because I'm curious how people view money and how it's related to their experience, where they live, etc.  I've been so close to jobs that would have changed my lifestyle and geez... there is always some minute detail that keeps me from getting beat out with someone with that 'tad' more specific experience.

I've made consistent money before at a 'meh' salary, surely not life-changing.

I've been struggling at times, so I've kept that 'struggling' mentality even if I was making what's "comfortable".  To me, it's not comfortable if you have to think about spending half of your monthly pay in housing, so everything is surely relative.

I personally don't want to be struggling just to be comfortable.  There's always another way to look at lifestyle, hence why I posed the question.

FlirtynFun Photography wrote:
I've survived (in my younger years) on minimum wage. I've also made good money... near $180k per year.
As mentioned earlier, it depends on a LOT of circumstances. Making $60k a year when you're single and live in Muncie, IN may be a LOT different than living in DC making $100k a year and supporting a family of four.
My wife watches a lot of the keep it or flip it home shows and I'm always amazed at the 1800sq ft homes in CA or NY that go for $750k BEFORE the renovation. Holy hell, they could move to TX and own three homes!

I also understand location. I could not for instance, move back to the snow and ice where it's cold and grey 75% of the year.

Damn, 180K, "tips hat".

I'll never forget when I was slaving for a R.E. agent processing his loans... was I making 35K at the time?  can't remember... it was many years ago, but he made 2 mil a year.

Making 180K, do you find that most of the money goes to housing or is expended on kids?  I'm figuring if I'm lucky enough to get a job I'm up for (oh please... does rain dance), I could have a huge jump in lifestyle.  With no kids, I think that could be a bevy of savings.

Jules NYC wrote:

Making 180K, do you find that most of the money goes to housing or is expended on kids?  I'm figuring if I'm lucky enough to get a job I'm up for (oh please... does rain dance), I could have a huge jump in lifestyle.  With no kids, I think that could be a bevy of savings.

I have a daughter in college plus a mortgage, two car payments and a boat payment. I'm trying to put away for retirement but started that late. The 180k isn't the current job but we do fairly well.
In my industry though (technology), a degree isn't required and if someone has 5-7 years of experience they can make in the $200k a year range. Top earning sales people can make 7 figures, with most in the 150-300k range.

FlirtynFun Photography wrote:

I have a daughter in college plus a mortgage, two car payments and a boat payment. I'm trying to put away for retirement but started that late. The 180k isn't the current job but we do fairly well.
In my industry though (technology), a degree isn't required and if someone has 5-7 years of experience they can make in the $200k a year range. Top earning sales people can make 7 figures, with most in the 150-300k range.

Sales is notorious for making killer money.
I'm being teased by getting very close to what I believe could dramatically change my lifestyle, submissions that is.  I had a brush with Yale and still in the mix for consideration.  Last Friday I was up for a job in Westport, CT that was finance related.  I gasped at the POSSIBILITY of what I can make if and only if I get an interview.

It's making what I make now seem quite average.

I keep telling myself, I have no kids and -0- responsibilities except for a student loan which I'm paying off.

Jules NYC wrote:
P.S. 12 to 17 an hour is a good leap.  That's a great thing.

That "good leap" made a HUGE lifestyle improvement for me. I was able to open a savings account (and immediately start saving 10-15% of each paycheck), finally qualify for a credit-building credit card (subsequently my credit has gone from having none to 673 in just months). In addition my general quality of life improved because I have been able to buy some beginner photography equipment and start to pursue other personal interests that add meaning and value to my life - things I couldn't afford before. Also, being able​ to buy groceries every week so I have my choice in what I want to eat and cook has made a big difference in quality of life.

It's absolutely mind-blowing what a difference it made. I went from being piss-poor with no credit history and no savings, to doing quite well for myself and not worrying about anything, in just a matter of months. That $5/hr bump in pay has literally changed the trajectory of my life.

I worked the hell out of my last job (the $12/hr one), went far above and beyond the scope of my job description, to the point that area physical therapists were "referring" people to me, from their offices. I wasn't technically allowed to take "referrals" (people in the community were calling asking for appointments, because Dr. So and So had referred them, which was a no-no) and I wasn't even allowed to use my actual credentials in my job title. The woman I work for now heard secondhand about how much people liked my work and just basically "absconded" with me. Some weeks, I easily make twice what I was making at the other place, in terms of take-home pay. And I have well to do clients now who give us gifts, and break out their checkbooks to write liberal "tips" around holidays.

Dear lordy, I can't even described how different my life is today from 2012, when I got my very first fitness industry job - which paid based on commissions, with very low percentages on commissions and "highly competitive sales environment." That place was awful. I made $8000 total that year, despite being there 30+ hours/week most weeks.

I definitely have the skill set, the education and the ability to train a ton of different people and thrive. I just suck at sales and marketing, and that's​ a huge part of building an independent fitness business. A huge part. Word of mouth seems to work best for me, but if I want to open my own studio in 5 more years, I need a large social media and internet presence and to be able to sell services to folks have special needs (health issues, etc) AND the huge population of people whose goals are purely aesthetic. I have no problem attracting older, less mobile clients, but the other group is where the potential for for that consistent $80,000+ yearly salary lies. Marketing to them is a lot more about looking sexy and fun yourself, and being "slick" in one's marketing strategy.

Koryn wrote:

That "good leap" made a HUGE lifestyle improvement for me. I was able to open a savings account (and immediately start saving 10-15% of each paycheck), finally qualify for a credit-building credit card (subsequently my credit has gone from having none to 673 in just months). In addition my general quality of life improved because I have been able to buy some beginner photography equipment and start to pursue other personal interests that add meaning and value to my life - things I couldn't afford before. Also, being able​ to buy groceries every week so I have my choice in what I want to eat and cook has made a big difference in quality of life.

It's absolutely mind-blowing what a difference it made. I went from being piss-poor with no credit history and no savings, to doing quite well for myself and not worrying about anything, in just a matter of months. That $5/hr bump in pay has literally changed the trajectory of my life.

I worked the hell out of my last job (the $12/hr one), went far above and beyond the scope of my job description, to the point that area physical therapists were "referring" people to me, from their offices. I wasn't technically allowed to take "referrals" (people in the community were calling asking for appointments, because Dr. So and So had referred them, which was a no-no) and I wasn't even allowed to use my actual credentials in my job title. The woman I work for now heard secondhand about how much people liked my work and just basically "absconded" with me. Some weeks, I easily make twice what I was making at the other place, in terms of take-home pay. And I have well to do clients now who give us gifts, and break out their checkbooks to write liberal "tips" around holidays.

Dear lordy, I can't even described how different my life is today from 2012, when I got my very first fitness industry job - which paid based on commissions, with very low percentages on commissions and "highly competitive sales environment." That place was awful. I made $8000 total that year, despite being there 30+ hours/week most weeks.

I definitely have the skill set, the education and the ability to train a ton of different people and thrive. I just suck at sales and marketing, and that's​ a huge part of building an independent fitness business. A huge part. Word of mouth seems to work best for me, but if I want to open my own studio in 5 more years, I need a large social media and internet presence and to be able to sell services to folks have special needs (health issues, etc) AND the huge population of people whose goals are purely aesthetic. I have no problem attracting older, less mobile clients, but the other group is where the potential for for that consistent $80,000+ yearly salary lies. Marketing to them is a lot more about looking sexy and fun yourself, and being "slick" in one's marketing strategy.

That is wonderful news to hear!  It appears that you in fact DID do a 180 in your life.  Credit scoring is so very important for pretty much anything.  Having good credit is the freedom to rent a place, buy a house, car, etc.  You need a great score without a doubt.  Try to get over 700 or 750:)

It also seems like to have a plan.  If you're hitting the senior market, they still like slick marketing (to an extent) too but maybe you can market yourself to be relatable to them.  Beyond the word of mouth, the theme of knowledge-based training by someone you wouldn't expect to be, etc.  Being able to be relatable and open with people's insecurities actually is quite redeeming for business and personal endeavors.

As for $... it's crazy because the rents in Fairfield county in CT are outrageous.  Getting a better paying gig would mean so much to me.  I make a lot more than what I used to years ago, if I have a long-standing contract.  These days, I'm getting sick of companies not having the headcount and wondering what's going to happen in x months, x years, etc.

I'd like to change my lifestyle too and feel more at ease with this expensive state or just well, move!

ha ha

Jules NYC wrote:

It's crazy what I thought was 'good money' until I thought about my future more.  To invest, to get a house, to truly think of the future.  I even looked at what I'd be making with Social Security and thought, "Shit, that's not enough!" even if I have a house paid for!

haha thats cute you're thinking about social security. but the answer to your question, it's different for everybody from location to what they do and of course, living situation. i am in nyc. i say 50k is a good medium. depends on how you use it.

martin b wrote:
I know it's mostly because I live in a third world country but $25k a year is good money to me and to most photographers.  Most freelance photographers here are shooting weddings for companies around $150-250 for shooting it and turning over the memory card at the end of the day.  The assistants make about $50-75.  I live in Makati, where it is a little more expensive than the rest  of Manila and I would say that the average family household income runs around $15k a year (mom and dad working professional jobs).  That  is just my guess.  I don't really know.

Hey, at least you can have good delicious mangos for cheap. Living in first world country like the U.S., we pay premium $ for crappy mangos.

Chuckarelei wrote:

Yummy, come out here it's mango season.

Connor Photography wrote:

Congratulations.  I love hearing stories of people who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. 

In the rest of the world the number one way people get rich is they inherit it.  Number two is they marry it.  Number three they steal it.  Only number four is they earn it.

martin b wrote:
In the rest of the world the number one way people get rich is they inherit it.

Depends on where you live I suppose:

"The U.S. has the fourth highest estate or inheritance tax rate in the OECD at 40 percent; the world’s highest rate, 55 percent, is in Japan, followed by South Korea (50 percent) and France (45 percent). Fifteen OECD countries levy no taxes on property passed to lineal heirs."

https://taxfoundation.org/estate-and-in … ound-world

Wicked Photos wrote:
haha thats cute you're thinking about social security. but the answer to your question, it's different for everybody from location to what they do and of course, living situation. i am in nyc. i say 50k is a good medium. depends on how you use it.

I'm watching too many people die and understanding their circumstance, Social Security is a huge consideration.  SS should NOT be a main source of income in your Golden Years.

Jules NYC wrote:
I'm watching too many people die and understanding their circumstance, Social Security is a huge consideration.  SS should NOT be a main source of income in your Golden Years.

The rule of thumb has always been (at least what I have always heard) is that SS was to be 1/3 of your retirement income.

The other two thirds would be your pension (company/job pension, 401K, etc.) and income from your savings (stock portfolio, real estate income, etc.)

Lightcraft Studio wrote:
The U.S. has the fourth highest estate or inheritance tax rate in the OECD at 40 percent

not completely true. only for estates at and above the 5.49 million mark. married couples have up to 10.9 million before the tax. also portions of the estate owned by spouses and joint accounts do not count. the exempt stipulations increase the total by quite a bit more before you hit the taxable rate up to 40% (max).

for most people it will not apply. last figures, anything below 5.49 million, the tax is "zero" as in none, zip.

read the entire piece you linked:
"The U.S. estate tax has a high rate and a large exemption; as a result, it raises very little revenue and applies to very few households. that's what the very rich gripe about. the sliding scale gives you up to 6.5 million before hitting 40%

Leonard Gee Photography wrote:
not completely true. only for estates above the 5.5 million mark. married couples have up to 10.9 million before the 40%.

It's the estate that gets taxed, not the heirs. It doesn't matter if it's passing to one person, a couple or to 100 heirs... the exemption is still $5.49 million (for 2017) for the estate.

Leonard Gee Photography wrote:
"The U.S. estate tax has a high rate and a large exemption; as a result, it raises very little revenue and applies to very few households. that's what the very rich gripe about. the sliding scale gives you up to 6.5 million before hitting 40%

Personally, I don't think there should be taxes on anyone's estates. Whatever is in the estate was already taxed when it was earned, so its really a double taxation on that same asset.

A big part of the "American dream" is the concept that we can make the lives of our kids better than the lives we had. We want to leave money for kids or grand-kids to get a better education than we had, get a head start on owning a home, etc.

Farmers often get screwed big time because the valuation on their inherited farm land can be very high despite the fact that the income from that land is not high. They wind up being forced to sell the farm just to pay the estate taxes on it.

Lightcraft Studio wrote:
A big part of the "American dream" is the concept that we can make the lives of our kids better than the lives we had. We want to leave money for kids or grand-kids to get a better education than we had, get a head start on owning a home, etc.

It's crazy because of the digital world. Most jobs are online and if you don't have a relationship with recruiters or don't post for jobs or post your resume every day, you're lost.  I get a lot of calls from recruiters, most that can barely speak English.  When a recruiter does, I'm almost amazed.  Your resume is usually logged by key-words and if it pops up on their database, you get a call.  When I'm qualified for a gig, I'll have a bunch of recruiters calling me and trying to get me to consent to their offer like a pack of Wilderbeasts vying for a steak dinner.

Not many companies hire you full-time, it's usually a contract world.  Hiring a person full-time is usually 20K higher (or whatever is relative) than paying an agency.

Land costs more.
Houses cost more.
Education costs more.

It's insane!

Is it easy to buy a house?  Sure!  Want to avoid the Truth In Lending and not pay 2x more than what the house is being sold for?

Reality of today.

matt-h2 wrote:
Don't call it "San Fran."

http://debbieduncan.com/index.php/persp … t-san-fran

(and get off my lawn, you kids!)

ha ha
... but all the USD kids call it that.

(one of the prettiest universities by the way)

Jules NYC wrote:
Land costs more.
Houses cost more.
Education costs more.

It's insane!

It is insane. When I got married (my wife lived in L.A. and I lived in PA) I sold my house in PA and moved into her little (1800 sq ft) house in L.A.

She sold her house a year later for $300K.

I looked it up recently and it just sold again for $1.53 million. Granted, someone updated the kitchen/bath, but it's still 1800 sq ft. We bought a bigger house in L.A. together and sold it 5 years later... and it nearly tripled in those 5 years.

Its really insane... and I assume it's just as crazy in NYC where you are (or work at least).

Obviously there ARE enough people making this sort of money, otherwise houses wouldn't be selling at prices like this.