Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > Pandemic Warnings

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Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

LightDreams wrote:

Personally, I DO think there will be a vaccine at some point.  And I do prefer plans that are aimed at getting as many people as possible, through until then,

I suspect that it will be pretty easy to spot a "political" vaccine.  Is it only being touted by a really partisan (economic goals over science) type administration, and are the doctors and scientists raising questions about it?

It was pretty easy to spot the hydroxychloroquine and Clorox bleach "political medicine" fiascos.  And I would suggest that the Cutter Vaccine incident is the very reason there are now so many testing stages, starting with tiny testing groups and building up from there..

So yes, I think it may well be a difficult path, with a likely second round (according to our health officials here).  But, long term, I AM optimistic.  Maybe I'm just completely mad, but we'll see!

That and the infamous Thalidamide incident are certainly important factors in the current testing procedures that are required.

And yes, there are far too many sources with strong internet presence who will proclaim regarding discrepencies for a "political vaccine" to emerge unscathed.
Some gullible people of specific persuasion may fall victim, that seems to happen unfortunately. Like the couple that died trying to cure themselves, they believed and it cost them their lives.

May 21 20 10:03 am Link

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Focuspuller

Posts: 303

Los Angeles, California, US

Baanthai wrote:
If we produce a “political” vaccine, we stand a good chance of repeating the “Cutter Vaccine Incident”.

To be fair, the problem in the Cutter incident was not about a "political," rushed vaccine. The Salk vaccine was not defective. Procedures at the Cutter facility were. As the article you cite states:

"... Three larger companies produced safe polio vaccines according to Salk's protocol for inactivating the virus with formaldehyde. The lack of experience and expertise at Cutter Laboratories, undetected by the inspectors, caused the disaster."

Lesson: Competent manufacturing inspection is mandatory for any vaccine. Politicizing and rushing the development and approval process adds yet another layer of potential catastrophe.

May 21 20 10:08 am Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 6998

Antioch, California, US

Baanthai wrote:
As we rush to find a Covid19 vaccine, the old saying “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it” is more relevant than ever. Remember Polio? Old guys of this thread-remember standing in line as a kid for your polio vaccine? Do you remember the “Cutter Incident” Here’s a brief excerpt about it:

In April 1955 more than 200 000 children in five Western and mid-Western USA states received a polio vaccine in which the process of inactivating the live virus proved to be defective. Within days there were reports of paralysis and within a month the first mass vaccination programme against polio had to be abandoned. Subsequent investigations revealed that the vaccine, manufactured by the California-based family firm of Cutter Laboratories, had caused 40 000 cases of polio, leaving 200 children with varying degrees of paralysis and killing 10.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/

If we produce a “political” vaccine, we stand a good chance of repeating the “Cutter Vaccine Incident”.

And --all--  of this just feeds the raving anti-vaxxers in Trump's base. I have read studies that predict 25% of the people in the US will refuse to take the vaccine. Trump's history of anti-vaccine statements is long and well documented, and now his bullshit anti-science, anti-medicine and LOUD anti-vaccine history is coming back to haunt him.

The very "cure" he hopes will save his second term is being rejected by his base...

edited to remove off topic statement......

May 21 20 11:41 am Link

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Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

nwprophoto wrote:

Assuming there will be a vaccine someday?
Isn't herd immunity at this point in time still
the most likely scenario?

Sadly, it appears the herd immunity scenario attempted in Sweden does not seem to be effective.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/swedish-coro … 06837.html

May 21 20 12:23 pm Link

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Baanthai

Posts: 769

Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand

rfordphotos wrote:
And --all--  of this just feeds the raving anti-vaxxers in Trump's base.

I'm sure it does. But I don't allow anti-vaxxers and their ilk to define the bounds of an important discussion. No one should. And the obvious retort is that Polio was defeated because of a vaccine. Countless children were saved.

The point of my post was to show that vaccines are complicated, and rigorous protocols must be followed from start to finish. Mixing politics with scientific protocols is a dangerous cocktail. Sanofi, a French vaccine maker, came up with a dengue fever vaccine several years ago. Disaster has now struck. Read this article in NPR: (Again, I'm not claiming that Sanofi played politics. I'm only saying that vaccines are complicated and you gotta get it right before offering it to the public.) 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandso … ercussions

Will the anti-vaxxers use this info to further their Luddhite beliefs? I don't care. It would seem to me that making a "quickie" vaccine that proves at best to be ineffective or at worst dangerous plays far more into the anti-vaxxers hand than an honest discussion about the complexities of vaccine development.

May 21 20 12:31 pm Link

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nwprophoto

Posts: 14472

Tonasket, Washington, US

Shadow Dancer wrote:
Sadly, it appears the herd immunity scenario attempted in Sweden does not seem to be effective.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/swedish-coro … 06837.html

The Swedish people seems to be doing thing right.
Not reaching the projected percentage of infected is a bad thing?

May 21 20 01:11 pm Link

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Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

nwprophoto wrote:

The Swedish people seems to be doing thing right.
Not reaching the projected percentage of infected is a bad thing?

Yes, high taxes and everybody gets medical care, paid for by those taxes.
It does work well indeed, especially it seems, during a pandemic.

May 21 20 02:40 pm Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 6998

Antioch, California, US

Baanthai wrote:
I'm sure it does. But I don't allow anti-vaxxers and their ilk to define the bounds of an important discussion. No one should. And the obvious retort is that Polio was defeated because of a vaccine. Countless children were saved.

The point of my post was to show that vaccines are complicated, and rigorous protocols must be followed from start to finish. Mixing politics with scientific protocols is a dangerous cocktail. Sanofi, a French vaccine maker, came up with a dengue fever vaccine several years ago. Disaster has now struck. Read this article in NPR: (Again, I'm not claiming that Sanofi played politics. I'm only saying that vaccines are complicated and you gotta get it right before offering it to the public.) 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandso … ercussions

Will the anti-vaxxers use this info to further their Luddhite beliefs? I don't care. It would seem to me that making a "quickie" vaccine that proves at best to be ineffective or at worst dangerous plays far more into the anti-vaxxers hand than an honest discussion about the complexities of vaccine development.

I think we are in 100% agreement.

In normal times, I wouldnt care a fig what some science-denying troglodyte says or thinks about vaccines. I grew up in the early 50's, I have personal experience of what life was like before polio or measles vaccines existed.

In normal times we wouldnt have an anti-vaxxer as president. In normal times our leadership would ask for and follow the advice of the experts in the field. This president gets his medical guidance from Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.

In normal times. Remember normal times?

May 21 20 02:57 pm Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 6998

Antioch, California, US

ahhhh, [edited to avoid the forum rules].......

Trump says he won't wear a mask in front of cameras

By Kevin Liptak, CNN
Updated 5:55 PM ET, Thu May 21, 2020
-----  https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/politics … index.html

(CNN)President Donald Trump brought a navy blue mask stamped with the presidential seal to a Ford plant in Michigan on Thursday. But he refused to wear it in front of cameras.
"I didn't want to give the press the pleasure of seeing it," Trump said
before showing off his fabric face covering, which he said he'd briefly strapped on backstage before removing for a tour of the factory. "It was very nice. It looked very nice. They said not necessary."
It was another example of Trump shrugging off the rules in place for others that are meant to guard against the coronavirus. As he walked through the facility -- where Ford rules say everyone must wear a mask -- he was surrounded by company executives whose faces were covered.
[...]

May 21 20 05:26 pm Link

Artist/Painter

ethasleftthebuilding

Posts: 16569

Key West, Florida, US

rfordphotos wrote:
ahhhh, [edited to avoid the forum rules].......

Trump says he won't wear a mask in front of cameras

By Kevin Liptak, CNN
Updated 5:55 PM ET, Thu May 21, 2020
-----  https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/politics … index.html

(CNN)President Donald Trump brought a navy blue mask stamped with the presidential seal to a Ford plant in Michigan on Thursday. But he refused to wear it in front of cameras.
"I didn't want to give the press the pleasure of seeing it," Trump said
before showing off his fabric face covering, which he said he'd briefly strapped on backstage before removing for a tour of the factory. "It was very nice. It looked very nice. They said not necessary."
It was another example of Trump shrugging off the rules in place for others that are meant to guard against the coronavirus. As he walked through the facility -- where Ford rules say everyone must wear a mask -- he was surrounded by company executives whose faces were covered.
[...]

Isn't the President tested daily?  So far testing negative every day?

Don't the "experts" say that a non-medical face covering is meant to protect others, not the wearer of the mask?

Why then should the President be required to wear a mask? 

On the other hand, those around the President, who are perhaps not tested daily, should wear a mask for protection of the President?

May 21 20 06:36 pm Link

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Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

I wonder whose uncle's son or daughter works at some of these places?
That is a lot of cash to sling around on possible vaccines.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/us-j … 14524.html

May 21 20 06:37 pm Link

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Focuspuller

Posts: 303

Los Angeles, California, US

ethasleftthebuilding wrote:
Why then should the President be required to wear a mask?

Very simple. To set an example. As a model to be emulated. If its good enough for the president, its good enough for you. It encourages and reinforces good behavior for the common good. Its not about the president's vanity. When the President flouts HIS OWN EXPERTS, he Is signaling to his true believers and to the country that it is OK not to wear a mask FOR ANY REASON. And considering the president lies regularly, we do not know how often, or if ever, the president does get tested. And who says the president shouldn't wear a surgical mask for his own protection when on his campaign trips?

May 21 20 07:17 pm Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 6998

Antioch, California, US

....and Focuspuller beat me to it- he said it all first------

ethasleftthebuilding wrote:
Isn't the President tested daily?  So far testing negative every day?

Don't the "experts" say that a non-medical face covering is meant to protect others, not the wearer of the mask?

Why then should the President be required to wear a mask? 

On the other hand, those around the President, who are perhaps not tested daily, should wear a mask for protection of the President?

Who knows when Trump was tested, we only know what he says. Who knows if the test he is "taking" is one of his "perfect" tests....And why should we believe a word out of his mouth?

Why should he wear a mask? Michigan State Law.
Why should he wear a mask? Set a good example for workers returning to the workplace
Why should he wear a mask? His own administration advises it.

Why should he wear a mask? Because it is the right thing to do.

May 21 20 07:28 pm Link

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Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

ethasleftthebuilding wrote:

Isn't the President tested daily?  So far testing negative every day?

Don't the "experts" say that a non-medical face covering is meant to protect others, not the wearer of the mask?

Why then should the President be required to wear a mask? 

On the other hand, those around the President, who are perhaps not tested daily, should wear a mask for protection of the President?

First, there is this. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronav … 020-5?op=1
One false negative and the President is a carrier, spreading disease. It really is that simple.
Second, the irony of the pOTUS - supposedly the Laughingstoc...err Leader of the Free World trying to get everybody to go  risk their lives working hard so he can brag about the economy, then getting tested every day, then refusing to wear a mask while admitting he takes a drug that is intended to treat malaria (which is NOT a virus) is a really too much to simply pass off.

Next, note the "non-medical" in your statement. Unlike most of us, the President has access to the finest medical face masks money can buy. He could use them to wipe his ass for all we know.

As mentioned, wearing a mask shows solidarity for EVERYBODY in our country, except those who have already died because somebody was playing golf, going to the Daytona 500 etc. instead of doing the job they were elected to do.

The President showing the mask and then not wearing it is exactly the sort of cheap stunt we've come to expect from a snake oil salesman of his caliber.

As of right now 94,702 deaths in our country. There could have been far less.

May 21 20 10:12 pm Link

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Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

Shadow Dancer wrote:
First, there is this. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronav … 020-5?op=1
One false negative and the President is a carrier, spreading disease. It really is that simple.
Second, the irony of the pOTUS - supposedly the Laughingstoc...err Leader of the Free World trying to get everybody to go  risk their lives working hard so he can brag about the economy, then getting tested every day, then refusing to wear a mask while admitting he takes a drug that is intended to treat malaria (which is NOT a virus) is a really too much to simply pass off.

Next, note the "non-medical" in your statement. Unlike most of us, the President has access to the finest medical face masks money can buy. He could use them to wipe his ass for all we know.

As mentioned, wearing a mask shows solidarity for EVERYBODY in our country, except those who have already died because somebody was playing golf, going to the Daytona 500 etc. instead of doing the job they were elected to do.

The President showing the mask and then not wearing it is exactly the sort of cheap stunt we've come to expect from a snake oil salesman of his caliber.

As of right now 94,702 deaths in our country. There could have been far less.

Edited to add, here he is - wearing a mask. A leaked photo from this article.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-refuse … 41879.html
The article states that he was tested and all the people he was meeting with were tested.
If the tests were 100% accurate then there is no problem.
The rest of the people he was with realize the truth, that the tests are not always correct.
So they wore masks.

May 21 20 10:41 pm Link

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Hunter GWPB

Posts: 5433

King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US

He doesn't wear the mask in public because he is vain, egotistical and narcissistic, and all these things are more important to him then being an effective leader.  He is ignorant and lacks empathy and really doesn't give a crap about what most people have to go through.  He is a hypocrite.  He is an elitist that flouts his ability to be tested everyday and to test those around him everyday- something not available to hundreds of millions of other Americans.  He is divisive. 

Telling people that a mask is only for the protection of others is questionable and may be a ploy to appeal to the empathic portion of a normal human being, to have compassion and consideration for other people.  It is most effective if both people wear them.  But say it is a one way thing, then do you want your surgeon and OR staff to not wear their masks when they do a major surgery on you, but to make sure you are wearing one?  Do hospitals and medical offices really spend money on these things as part of their day to day operations if they have no value in protecting themselves and others?

His efforts to look strong, make him look pathetic.

May 21 20 11:17 pm Link

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Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

Yikes!!!! That is a hot spot all it's own.
This is the reality we are facing, note how many were asymtomatic and therefore potential spreaders.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nearly-600-w … 54243.html

May 22 20 12:12 am Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 6998

Antioch, California, US

Church That Defied Coronavirus Restrictions Is Burned to Ground

A message at the scene that said, in part, “Bet you stay home now,” has led the police in Mississippi to suspect arson.

By Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs
May 22, 2020, 1:58 a.m. ET
---- https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/us/m … e=Homepage

The burning of a church in northern Mississippi this week is being investigated as arson because of a spray-painted message at the scene that seemed to criticize the church’s defiance of coronavirus restrictions.

First Pentecostal Church had sued the city of Holly Springs, Miss., which is about an hour southeast of Memphis, arguing that its stay-at-home order had violated the church’s right to free speech and interfered with its members’ ability to worship.

After firefighters put out the blaze early Wednesday, the police found a message, “Bet you stay home now you hypokrits,” spray-painted on the ground near the church’s doors, according to Maj. Kelly McMillen of the Marshall County Sheriff’s Department.
[...]

May 22 20 04:32 am Link

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rxz

Posts: 637

Glen Ellyn, Illinois, US

rfordphotos wrote:
.

Who knows when Trump was tested, we only know what he says. Who knows if the test he is "taking" is one of his "perfect" tests....And why should we believe a word out of his mouth?

[/b]

To repeat, how many people actually believe was he says?

May 22 20 09:16 am Link

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Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

rxz wrote:

To repeat, how many people actually believe was he says?

Far too many, considering his track record.

I'd like to sell them the Pacific Ocean, it's a very nice ocean, the best ocean that has ever existed in the history of our country.
And the moon, I'll sell them the moon. So. Much. Cheese.

May 22 20 09:32 am Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 6998

Antioch, California, US

rxz wrote:

To repeat, how many people actually believe was he says?

well, if you believe that the people who "approve" of his job performance also "believe" what he says----

45% as of yesterday's polls....

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll … -6179.html

and that fact makes me want a strong drink.

May 22 20 09:41 am Link

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rxz

Posts: 637

Glen Ellyn, Illinois, US

Well, global warming, massive world wide debt for the governments of the world, warring factions around the planet, global unemployment, and now a virus that will probably turn into an endemic.  The future just continues to look worse.  Even scary.
And here I sit next to my computer, avoiding restaurants, retail shops, and seeing friends, and missing vacations to name a few.  Good thing I'm retired and solvent enough not dependent on a paycheck.  Safe so far, but for how long?  Not even trump knows.

May 22 20 10:11 am Link

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Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

rxz wrote:

To repeat, how many people actually believe was he says?

If you need a barameter of the thoughts of many in our divided country, here is something to ponder.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/new-yahoo-ne … 43610.html

May 22 20 10:20 am Link

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Focuspuller

Posts: 303

Los Angeles, California, US

rxz wrote:
Good thing I'm retired and solvent enough not dependent on a paycheck.

As a member of the retiree cohort. I would advise keeping that bit of info on the DL. We already are dying from the virus at a higher rate; don't need another target on our backs. When the inevitable cuts come, those who haven't suffered quite so much would be an easy target. Just sayin'.

May 22 20 10:42 am Link

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Focuspuller

Posts: 303

Los Angeles, California, US

“Today I am identifying houses of worship — churches, synagogue and mosques — as essential places that provide essential services,”

Well, America, that's it.  Mango Mussolini has spoken. So much for "leaving it to the governors."

“In America we need more prayer, not less, he said”

Amen, brother. Amen.

May 22 20 12:25 pm Link

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LightDreams

Posts: 1580

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Shadow Dancer wrote:
If you need a barameter of the thoughts of many in our divided country, here is something to ponder.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/new-yahoo-ne … 43610.html

Some of the COVID-19 conspiracy theory polling numbers from that article are truly scary...
_____

"According to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll, 44 percent of Republicans believe that Bill Gates is plotting to use a mass COVID-19 vaccination campaign as a pretext to implant microchips in billions of people and monitor their movements — a widely debunked conspiracy theory with no basis in fact."
...
"Half of all Americans (50 percent) who name Fox News as their primary television news source believe the disproven conspiracy theory..."

May 22 20 12:38 pm Link

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Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

Focuspuller wrote:
“Today I am identifying houses of worship — churches, synagogue and mosques — as essential places that provide essential services,”

Well, America, that's it.  Mango Mussolini has spoken. So much for "leaving it to the governors."

“In America we need more prayer, not less, he said”

Amen, brother. Amen.

I pray that we will see big changes in November. Mango Mussolini is hilarious, the new Cheeto Jesus!!!

May 22 20 12:42 pm Link

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Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

95,823 deaths in the US right now. Sad.

May 22 20 12:52 pm Link

Photographer

Focuspuller

Posts: 303

Los Angeles, California, US

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
He doesn't wear the mask in public because he is vain, egotistical and narcissistic, and all these things are more important to him then being an effective leader.

Which is maybe the supreme irony of all. From the cotton candy birds' nest on his skull, to the white tan goggled eye sockets contrasting his artificial orange painted face, he is a clown, a Joker, a freak, and a mask could actually help. And note that despite his mask aversion, he had masks made with a presidential seal. Wonderring when these will be on sale at Mar a Lago gift shop. Or Goodwill.

May 22 20 02:19 pm Link

Photographer

Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

Focuspuller wrote:

Which is maybe the supreme irony of all. From the cotton candy birds' nest on his skull, to the white tan goggled eye sockets contrasting his artificial orange painted face, he is a clown, a Joker, a freak, and a mask could actually help. And note that despite his mask aversion, he had masks made with a presidential seal. Wonderring when these will be on sale at Mar a Lago gift shop. Or Goodwill.

Gotta get a shipment in from China first, they make all the Trump stuffs.

May 22 20 03:03 pm Link

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nwprophoto

Posts: 14472

Tonasket, Washington, US

Empirical data added to a previous perspective.

'It was the single dumbest decision anyone could make"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … homes.html

May 22 20 05:55 pm Link

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Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

nwprophoto wrote:
Empirical data added to a previous perspective.

'It was the single dumbest decision anyone could make"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … homes.html

I certainly won't defend it but 'It was the single dumbest decision anyone could make" is hyperbole.

There are many examples of human stupidity that could be considered to surpass the level of stupidity in this case.
Hitler's decision to atack Russia in the Fall comes to mind. That was incredibly dumb.
Henry Kissinger's planned and executed blanket bombing of Cambodia was pure idiocy, costing hundreds of thousands of human lives for no benefit whatsoever. That was not smart. I am sure there are more, lots more.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein

May 22 20 06:17 pm Link

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Focuspuller

Posts: 303

Los Angeles, California, US

nwprophoto wrote:
'It was the single dumbest decision anyone could make"

I will see that Cuomo and raise you a DeSantis.

"That is the dumbest s--- I have heard in a long time,”

https://www.politico.com/states/florida … us-1268818

May 22 20 07:58 pm Link

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nwprophoto

Posts: 14472

Tonasket, Washington, US

A different perspective.

"Lockdowns failed to alter the course of pandemic and are now destroying millions of livelihoods worldwide"

"Falling infection rates since lockdowns were lifted suggest that the virus 'likely has its own dynamics' which are 'unrelated to often inconsistent lockdown measures"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … laims.html

May 22 20 08:59 pm Link

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nwprophoto

Posts: 14472

Tonasket, Washington, US

"Do Lockdowns Work? Mounting Evidence Says No"

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/do-loc … ce-says-no

May 22 20 09:04 pm Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 6998

Antioch, California, US

nwprophoto wrote:
"Do Lockdowns Work? Mounting Evidence Says No"

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/do-loc … ce-says-no

An interesting point of view.

I dont believe science and facts support this point of view.

I always like to know the sources of articles I read online--- not impressed by a site who  uses pseudonyms rather than author's names.... like this article written by "Tyler Durden".

so, 10 seconds of searching:
And who is Zero Hedge?

---quick and dirty straight out of wikipedia:

---  Zero Hedge or ZeroHedge is a libertarian or right-wing financial blog, presenting staff-written articles and aggregating news and opinions from external sources. Zero Hedge, per its motto, is bearish in its investment outlook and analysis, often deriving from its adherence to the Austrian School of economics and credit cycles. While often labeled as a financial permabear, Zero Hedge is also seen as a source of "cutting-edge news, rumors and gossip in the financial industry".

Over time, Zero Hedge expanded into non-financial analysis, such as conspiracy theories and fringe rhetoric that has been associated with the alt-right and a pro-Russian bias
---  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge


---  On 20 January 2020, Bloomberg News reported that Zero Hedge's Twitter account, which then had 670,000 followers, was "permanently suspended" from Twitter for "violating our platform manipulation policy". Bloomberg reported that Zero Hedge had been informed by Twitter that the suspension was as a result of an article titled: "Is This The Man Behind The Global Coronavirus Pandemic?", regarding a Chinese virologist at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which was picked up in an article by BuzzFeed News, who made the complaint to Twitter.
--- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge#Litigation

May 22 20 09:57 pm Link

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Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9201

Bellingham, Washington, US

nwprophoto wrote:
"Do Lockdowns Work? Mounting Evidence Says No"

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/do-loc … ce-says-no

OK, I read the article. We have an article titled:

"Do Lockdowns Work? Mounting Evidence Says No"

Near the end the author states:

"At this point, the question I usually get is, "What’s your evidence that lockdowns don’t work?"

"It’s a strange question. Why should I have to prove that lockdownsdon’t work? The burden of proof is to show that they do work! If you’re going to essentially cancel the civil liberties of the entire population for a few weeks, you should probably have evidence that the strategy will work. And there, lockdown advocates fail miserably, because they simply don’t have evidence."

So, the author writes an article titled: "Do Lockdowns Work? Mounting Evidence Says No"
And then says: Why should I have to prove that lockdownsdon’t work?

Ummm... because you wrote an article and the title states that mounting evidence says no?
Propaganda puff piece in any context you want to place it. Most of the piece is unsubstatiated political blatherspew.

We've discussed here the fact that ALL data on this pandemic is woefully incomplete and testing is inadequate.
One of the tests in common usage for quick assessment - the one the White House started with and is probably still using, has a VERY high rate of false negatives. The rate of false positives is very low, if the test says you are positive you probably are, if the test says you are negative you very well might be positive.

It is impossible to parse accurate data when it does not exist. It is also absurd to compare Utah to anywhere but Utah or New York to anywhere but New York. New York City is unique, there is no other city like it in the world. You can falsely prop up stats that make it seem to be like other large cities with high population densities but you need to count to total number of visitors, where they come from, the level of commerce, there is a nearly endless list of stats that must be very close or you simply are talking about two different things.

I have a low regard for this type of "journalism", it is bullshit plain and simple.

May 22 20 10:22 pm Link

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LightDreams

Posts: 1580

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

nwprophoto wrote:
"Do Lockdowns Work? Mounting Evidence Says No"

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/do-loc … ce-says-no

I am so glad that here in B.C. we DID listen to the medical and scientific experts...

I would modify "Lockdowns" to mean an intelligent mix of what and where to lock things down (and, critically, do it early on), combined with testing, contact tracing, social distancing, washing of hands, etc, and a strong buy-in (again, early on) from the population.

In BC, we have about 5 million people, with almost half of them concentrated in Greater Vancouver.  We have a high population density downtown and we are a strong hub to China / Asia, plus we're located on the border with Washington State (one of the country's busiest border crossings).  With all of that, obviously we were hit early on, but we also reacted early.  We had good tests almost immediately, and the population was educated well (with whatever the latest information was), from the very beginning.  The politicians got out of the way and became facilitators for the experts,  The Chief Provincial Health Officer, Dr Bonnie Hunt's extensive expertise with the SARS and Ebola outbreaks inspired trust, and the population quickly "bought in" to what she said should be done.

As of today, due to this intelligent version of a "lockdown", we are now down to between 3 and 20 new cases daily, with a total of only about 40 people still in hospital (4,000 hospital beds were on standby), with only 8 COVID-19 related cases currently in Intensive Care.  The location and source of these remaining cases is known.  Remarkably, under the circumstances, the total death rate to date is only 155 cases, as tragic as each case is.

We are now opening things up more, UNDER HER DIRECTION, but slowly and strategically.  That does not mean indoor bars/nightclubs, mass gatherings, concerts or anything along those lines.  Nor do we expect that part will change into at least next year, depending on vaccines, etc, etc.  Just about every other type of business has to have a detailed plan in place (that matches her guidance for that type of business) to safely deal with the public and protect the staff.

Granted, she's prepared us that this is only "Round One".  So, has it been successful here, at least so far?  Hell yes.

I would also point out that you don't hear the top medical and pandemic experts like Dr. Fauci, the W.H.O. and the CDC pushing to open everything up, right now, across the whole of the U.S.  And these pandemic experts certainly AREN'T the ones pushing the story that "lockdowns don't really work"...

May 22 20 11:36 pm Link

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nwprophoto

Posts: 14472

Tonasket, Washington, US

"Dr. Fauci warns of 'irreparable damage' if lockdowns are kept in place for too long"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … -long.html

May 23 20 05:56 am Link

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LightDreams

Posts: 1580

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

nwprophoto wrote:
"Dr. Fauci warns of 'irreparable damage' if lockdowns are kept in place for too long"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … -long.html

In the article he also stresses the dangers of opening up TOO SOON, and of the importance of keeping significant changes in behavior in place when a particular state DOES reach the point of being ready to open things up more...

In fact, everything he says, about the importance of getting the timing right, is completely contrary to the claim that "Do Lockdowns Work? Mounting Evidence Says No".

May 23 20 06:09 am Link