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Photographer
human sound photography
Posts: 41
New York, New York, US


Studio 530 wrote:
That is total crap! The police will contact you and they will then bust you. They do it all the time-- for example the undwercover approaches you on the street and offers you drugs and when you get out your money they bust you. The same goes for kiddie porn and sex crimes and all that jazz. Another example-- undercover police posing as prostitutes approach you and ask you if you want a date and when you get you wallet out they bust you! Don't even think the constitution comes into play when dealing with the cops-- they are just as bad as the element they are fighting. I know for a fact having worked on both sides of the battle. Better to be paranoid than busted-- and I might add that paranoia is perfect awareness.

  It isn't illegal to shoot underage models in the nude.  If it were true how can you explain baby advertisements where the babies are nude.  I don't shoot it simply because I have no interest.  It is not illegal though.   

Jul 17 07 11:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DELBERT ENTERTAINMENT
Posts: 125
Los Angeles, California, US


Jul 17 07 11:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24,078
Toulon, Provence-Alpes-Côte-d'Azur, France


Studio 530 wrote:
That is total crap! The police will contact you and they will then bust you. They do it all the time-- for example the undwercover approaches you on the street and offers you drugs and when you get out your money they bust you. The same goes for kiddie porn and sex crimes and all that jazz. Another example-- undercover police posing as prostitutes approach you and ask you if you want a date and when you get you wallet out they bust you! Don't even think the constitution comes into play when dealing with the cops-- they are just as bad as the element they are fighting. I know for a fact having worked on both sides of the battle. Better to be paranoid than busted-- and I might add that paranoia is perfect awareness.

LOL

- I never buy drugs, and if I did I wouldn't buy them from some dude on the street. That's just stupid.

- I would love to know where kiddy porn guys get their stuff. (well kinda kidding) but you have someone like me who has a hard time finding regular legual porn that's free, and then you hear on the news that someone has 20,000 images of kids... I can't FUCKING FIND 20,000 IMAGES OF REGULAR STUFF!!!!!

smile

- watch COPS, ladies of the night just don't go up and ask for a date, they keep going and going while making sure you know what's about to happen as far as what the "date" is about. Also, you're stupid if you do this.

Now to the person I'm quoting, you're dumb about this. Don't do anything wrong and you won't have anything to worry about. I don't buy drugs, hook up with prodsitutes, and look at child porn, as well as shoot anything that could be considered child porn. I have nothing to hide, and I don't live in fear.

it's pretty easy.

Jul 17 07 12:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ClevelandSlim
Posts: 851
NORTH HOLLYWOOD, California, US


Changed my mind.  I'm not even going to add to this thread.
Jul 17 07 12:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photo Three Photography
Posts: 56
Dayton, Ohio, US


Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:

DMP Studios wrote:
yes, i have turned them down as well, as most are undercover police officers,with just a small percentage  actual young ladies that should indeed know better.Either way mention 16yrs all communication stops from there on in.
Sam Javor wrote:
my guess is that the origin has something to do with a undercover police officer... but I'd be guessing.

I chuckle whenever I read that.  Undercover officers will not contact you, pretend to be a teen and ask you to shoot them nude.  Stop being so paranoid.

If they contact you, encourage you to shoot them and then pose in a fashion that is illegal, that is called entrapment.  They cannot initiate the contact.  To do so raises the issue of them encouraging you to do something you wouldn't have done on your own.

Instead, when they set up stings, they will go online, for example and wait for you to contact them.  The will suggest nothing nor make any sexual remarks nor discuss doing nude shoots.  When you suggest the shoot they will be evasive and let you affirm what you are wanting to do.  They will get you to commit to doing something that would cross the line from legal to illegal and then get you to set up the characteristics of it so that you have definitely proposed something illegal.  They will discuss props or something shoot specific so they can demonstrate that you are intending to go through with it, such as bringing bondage gear or condoms.

They will then arrange a time/place to shoot.  When you arrive, they will search you to see if you brought the promised item.  In the meantime, they have a written transcript of the entire proposition.

A case would never stand up if they went around contacting photographers and then asking them to shoot nude.  You guys need to get a life.  You spend so much time worrying about this kind of nonsense.  You see police officers behind every door.

Turning down the shoot is the right thing because you don't need to be shooting any 16 year olds nude.  But it isn't an undercover cop contacting you.  Drink another beer and relax.  It is all good.

Jul 17 07 12:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photo Three Photography
Posts: 56
Dayton, Ohio, US


Then you have not heard of Green County in Ohio.
Jul 17 07 12:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LuckyShots Photography
Posts: 360
Grafton, Illinois, US


I blame Paris Hilton, some role model.
Jul 17 07 12:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
dke Photography
Posts: 37
Royersford, Pennsylvania, US


Wow! Thats just asking for trouble. There are some pretty good looking 16 year olds out there. But they are 16. I cant say I wont turn my head back when they walk by buy thats all the further I'm going with it. Yea... 16... I dont even want to think of the trouble someone would get in for shooting them nude. Yikes!
Jul 17 07 12:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Legacy Glamour Creation
Posts: 4
Los Angeles, California, US


Mark wrote:
Maybe they feel in thier prime and want to record it. It would be nice to have a good portrait or photo series to lok back on.  But I imagine the just want it for some web site.  If they get their parents permission and bring one, why not?

Regardless whether or not they have parental consent, we as photographer can still get in trouble for child pornagraphy. The goverment doesnt care about the parental consent issue. All they see is that an adult took nude photos of a minor. They can still get the sexy shots they want for their MySpace or whatever in a swimsuit or boyshorts.

Watch your 6 gentlemen. Make sure it's not a setup!!!

Jul 17 07 12:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Al Perry
Posts: 475
Roy, Utah, US


At least now I know where not to seek legal advice.  A local photog took some shots of a 17 yo and they showed nipple.  After the police finished going thru all of his negs, he now has finger prints on 20 years of images.  His lawyer explained to him that local perception determines more about what the courts will proceed on than anything else.  Every town has its own pornography laws.  You might win in the supreme court but you will no longer be a photographer.  If they aren't 18, keep it clean.  Your career and your future aren't worth it.
Jul 17 07 01:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ImageFusionStudio
Posts: 189
Fort Worth, Texas, US


Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:

DMP Studios wrote:
yes, i have turned them down as well, as most are undercover police officers,with just a small percentage  actual young ladies that should indeed know better.Either way mention 16yrs all communication stops from there on in.

I chuckle whenever I read that.  Undercover officers will not contact you, pretend to be a teen and ask you to shoot them nude.  Stop being so paranoid.

If they contact you, encourage you to shoot them and then pose in a fashion that is illegal, that is called entrapment.  They cannot initiate the contact.  To do so raises the issue of them encouraging you to do something you wouldn't have done on your own.

Instead, when they set up stings, they will go online, for example and wait for you to contact them.  The will suggest nothing nor make any sexual remarks nor discuss doing nude shoots.  When you suggest the shoot they will be evasive and let you affirm what you are wanting to do.  They will get you to commit to doing something that would cross the line from legal to illegal and then get you to set up the characteristics of it so that you have definitely proposed something illegal.  They will discuss props or something shoot specific so they can demonstrate that you are intending to go through with it, such as bringing bondage gear or condoms.

They will then arrange a time/place to shoot.  When you arrive, they will search you to see if you brought the promised item.  In the meantime, they have a written transcript of the entire proposition.

A case would never stand up if they went around contacting photographers and then asking them to shoot nude.  You guys need to get a life.  You spend so much time worrying about this kind of nonsense.  You see police officers behind every door.

Turning down the shoot is the right thing because you don't need to be shooting any 16 year olds nude.  But it isn't an undercover cop contacting you.  Drink another beer and relax.  It is all good.

Alan - It IS HAPPENING. LE is targeting photographers (at least in this state) with this sting.

You can scream all you want about paranoia but I have had it happen in my studio.

Now,  am I worried . No. I will continue to  just show them to the door as I did in situation that happened to me.

[ I now return you to your regularly scheduled rant already in progress]

Jul 17 07 01:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
la lune
Posts: 586


I haven't read any of this thread, just the OP...and...to that I say:

I'll be shooting a sixteen year-old nude soon.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's not illegal.
Jul 17 07 01:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeremy McLarty
Posts: 63
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


I'm going to be shooting a 16 year old girl, but would never shoot a 16 year old nude. That's asking for time alone in a small cell.
Jul 17 07 01:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


Jeremy McLarty wrote:
I'm going to be shooting a 16 year old girl, but would never shoot a 16 year old nude. That's asking for time alone in a small cell.

and what law would have been broken?

Jul 17 07 01:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15,406
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom


17 yr old put up a forum (UK) counting down the days when she would be 18 and legaly take her clothes of.
Think she wanted to be all grown up and join the glamour models.

Sad.
Jul 17 07 01:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Steve Hoskinson Photo
Posts: 69
Newark, Ohio, US


Studio 530 wrote:

That is total crap! The police will contact you and they will then bust you. They do it all the time-- for example the undwercover approaches you on the street and offers you drugs and when you get out your money they bust you. The same goes for kiddie porn and sex crimes and all that jazz. Another example-- undercover police posing as prostitutes approach you and ask you if you want a date and when you get you wallet out they bust you! Don't even think the constitution comes into play when dealing with the cops-- they are just as bad as the element they are fighting. I know for a fact having worked on both sides of the battle. Better to be paranoid than busted-- and I might add that paranoia is perfect awareness.

Just remember, even if you beat the rap, you wont beat the ride.....just a little saying we had when I was in law enforcement

Jul 17 07 01:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Halcyon 7174 NYC
Posts: 20,109
New York, New York, US


Gene Geter wrote:
What's up with 16-year-old girls wanting to pose nude? What's the origin to this? I met a few asking me if I could photographing them and also heard stories from other artists and friends about this.

I think it's hot. If they look great, why not take their picture?*







* somewhere out of the country

Jul 17 07 02:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TA Craft Photography
Posts: 2,875
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


Obsidian Blade wrote:
And your daughter is really 12?! My sympathies, if so.

Fortunatly she was not, she was trying shock tactics to get attention, but Wow did it scare me.  It has changed my view of my daughter, she is no longer my 'little' girl but a young maturing woman.

Jul 17 07 03:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ivan Aps
Posts: 4,996
Miami, Florida, US


Gene Geter wrote:
What's up with 16-year-old girls wanting to pose nude? What's the origin to this? I met a few asking me if I could photographing them and also heard stories from other artists and friends about this.

Wait, with all the stories about 12 year olds having gang bangs and group BJ sessions and a 16 year old wanting to nude modeling shocks you? smile

Jul 17 07 03:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
yourphotographer
Posts: 1,668
Chicago, Illinois, US


Sam Javor wrote:
my guess is that the origin has something to do with a undercover police officer... but I'd be guessing.

I would go along with this, and would suggest anyone who wants to shoot a minor in his birthday suit, well maybe not a him, so lets put her since there are very few male models nude on here, that they are only going to find themselves as possible child pornography photographers. Regardless on how innocent the photographer felt the shoot was, it will likely be treated as a child pornography photographer.

Anyone interested in doing it, let me know. I shoot spot news and I can make a few bucks catching the image of you being hauled out of your house by the police.

Jul 17 07 03:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eddie Song - MueveloNYC
Posts: 583
New York, New York, US


LOL probably trying to find more for his book:
http://flowtv.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/predator-hansen-book-cover.jpg

You'd have to be insane to agree to do the job with the liability it has...
Jul 17 07 03:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


yourphotographer wrote:
Anyone interested in doing it, let me know. I shoot spot news and I can make a few bucks catching the image of you being hauled out of your house by the police.

what have we let our country become?...

being worried about being hauled off to jail when we havent done anything illegal...

how is this acceptable to anyone that considers themselves American?

Jul 17 07 03:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Body Painter
Bare Beauty Bodypaint
Posts: 358
Gardner, Massachusetts, US


I get contacted by 15-17 year old girls every week who want to be bodypainted, but usually they're not too serious about having it done cause when I tell them that I would paint them as long as they have their, "Parents Permission" they tend to not respond.

I think most of them think that they'll get something worthy of blackmail. But when it's done properly, there is nothing illegal about shooting or even painting 16 year old nude girls.
Jul 17 07 03:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ImageFusionStudio
Posts: 189
Fort Worth, Texas, US


Ok can I put this to bed once and for all
At least in TX and this county

I spoke to a prosecutor in the county DA office.
The question asked was "is it legal to photograph a artistic nude of a 16 year old with parents permission?

answer

"You would be arrested for FELONY Child Pornography"

Even if totally artistic in nature?

Answer
"You would have to argue that in appeal"

Question What about the involvement of the parents
ANSWER
Contributing to the "delinquency of a minor"

Do you want his phone number ???

YMMV in your state
Jul 17 07 05:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mclain D Swift
Posts: 1,279
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada


What a shame people can't separate nudity from sex.  Which is really what this discussion boils down to.  I have shot lots of underage girls--never nude because it is deemed inappropriate by our society and I respect the laws.  I shoot purely for the beauty that is the female human being and if the subject happens to be 16 then so be it.  Simply being 16-17 does not negate one's beauty.  I find it a terrible shame as there are some simply gorgeous 16-17 year olds that in the hands of a skilled photographer could produce some beautiful nude images.  I find nothing wrong with the beauty of a young lady at the beginning of womanhood.  But, I can distinguish between sex and the objective beauty of a nude woman.

I suppose there are far too many people out there that can't control their hormones.  Nudity does not always equal sex or degradation of the model.  Why are there so many guys that just can't get a grip?  Good grief.

One thing that always gets me is that society will bestow the privilege of operating a motor vehicle to a 16 year old and all the critical and potentially life-altering decisions that come with driving but to pose for an artistic nude photograph is absolutely out of the question.  Responsible enough to make decisions that could KILL some one but not responsible enough to pose naked for a photograph?  Uh...OK.
Jul 17 07 05:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ImageFusionStudio
Posts: 189
Fort Worth, Texas, US


Mac Swift wrote:
What a shame people can't separate nudity from sex.  Which is really what this discussion boils down to.  I have shot lots of underage girls--never nude because it is deemed inappropriate by our society and I respect the laws.  I shoot purely for the beauty that is the female human being and if the subject happens to be 16 then so be it.  Simply being 16-17 does not negate one's beauty.  I find it a terrible shame as there are some simply gorgeous 16-17 year olds that in the hands of a skilled photographer could produce some beautiful nude images.  I find nothing wrong with the beauty of a young lady at the beginning of womanhood.  But, I can distinguish between sex and the objective beauty of a nude woman.

I suppose there are far too many people out there that can't control their hormones.  Nudity does not always equal sex or degradation of the model.  Why are there so many guys that just can't get a grip?  Good grief.

One thing that always gets me is that society will bestow the privilege of operating a motor vehicle to a 16 year old and all the critical and potentially life-altering decisions that come with driving but to pose for an artistic nude photograph is absolutely out of the question.  Responsible enough to make decisions that could KILL some one but not responsible enough to pose naked for a photograph?  Uh...OK.

Your points are spot on

Jul 17 07 05:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RebeccaArielPhotography
Posts: 93
Carpinteria, California, US


Doug Swinskey wrote:

nothing gross about nudity any age and sorry, not illegal

Actually, it is illegal.  It is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to pose or take nude photos.

Jul 17 07 05:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
CW Sr
Posts: 970
Columbus, Ohio, US


Nude or implied? I've shot 17 yr old implied. No heat from the parents. No prob.
Jul 17 07 05:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


RebeccaArielPhotography wrote:
Actually, it is illegal.  It is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to pose or take nude photos.

you are very wrong....
go to any barnes and nobles  or borders and you will find books by sally mann and jock sturges filled with nude underage models...

please site one example..any statue from any state...

Jul 17 07 05:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
CW Sr
Posts: 970
Columbus, Ohio, US


RebeccaArielPhotography wrote:

Actually, it is illegal.  It is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to pose or take nude photos.

Actually you're wrong. And the perfect example is Jock Sturges. Period.

Jul 17 07 05:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JAH CAN
Posts: 238
Campbellville, Ontario, Canada


My daughter turns 15 next month. From what I can observe as a swim / ride / ski chauffeur, a 16-year old who wants to do this would be highly unusual. Highly unusual things should be approached VERY carefully. Regardless of best intentions, the wrath of an irate father or mother is not something a photographer wants to incur.
Jul 17 07 05:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ImageFusionStudio
Posts: 189
Fort Worth, Texas, US


Doug Swinskey wrote:

you are very wrong....
go to any barnes and nobles  or borders and you will find books by sally mann and jock sturges filled with nude underage models...

please site one example..any statue from any state...

As I said in the above post I just got this today (again) by the county DA office ... would you like the number ???

Jul 17 07 05:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sleepy Weasel
Posts: 4,588
Castle Rock, Colorado, US


RebeccaArielPhotography wrote:
Actually, it is illegal.  It is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to pose or take nude photos.

As has been repeated by many, that's incorrect.

Whether or not cops try to arrest you for taking nude photos of a minor is one thing, but as long as it is not sexual in nature, it is not illegal and you would/should not be convicted.

Not sure why people insist it is illegal when it isn't. Immoral, unethical, in bad taste - you could make an argument I suppose, but not illegal.  Minors are nude at nude beaches - it is not illegal to see them in the nude. Why would taking a photo of them with their and their parents' permission be? Simple - it's not. Please stop the rumors.

Jul 17 07 05:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
la lune
Posts: 586


RebeccaArielPhotography wrote:

Actually, it is illegal.  It is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to pose or take nude photos.

Wrong.

Jul 17 07 05:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


ImageFusionStudio wrote:
As I said in the above post I just got this today (again) by the county DA office ... would you like the number ???

why would i give a shit about what some dumpwater state DA thinks...

Jul 17 07 05:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ImageFusionStudio
Posts: 189
Fort Worth, Texas, US


You guys dont get it do you ????

It doesn't matter if artistic (the quote "you can argue that in apeal"  is direct)

In this state / county you will be arrested ... argue all you want about Mann and Sturges.  The times are different and these over-reaching zealots are running the show.  They do not care if you have created the 21st century version of the Mona Lisa in their twisted eyes you have exploited a child and you will be arrested and treated just like you have done hardcore porn with a 8 year old.

Those are the FACTS
Jul 17 07 05:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ImageFusionStudio
Posts: 189
Fort Worth, Texas, US


Doug Swinskey wrote:

why would i give a shit about what some dumpwater state DA thinks...

I am not sure Dallas would be called dumpwater ... but ok

Jul 17 07 05:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


ImageFusionStudio wrote:

I am not sure Dallas would be called dumpwater ... but ok

everywhere outside texas it is...

Jul 17 07 05:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
RosieA
Posts: 73
Auckland, Auckland, New Zealand


I had the opposite - I got contacted by a photog to do nudes.

I have know idea what the law says but I know that when I was doing the NZ BodyArt Awards they made it very clear that all underage models had to have "decent breast coverage".

I don't really have to many problems with nudes, but I know for a fact that at 16 my parents will definatley not give consent.
Jul 17 07 05:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mclain D Swift
Posts: 1,279
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada


I talked to my lawyer here and he read the law to me and it clearly states that it is NOT illegal to photograph a minor nude.  It IS illegal to photograph a minor nude in a sexually suggestive way.  That portion of the law is up for interpretation.  I think the main thing is that any accusation of involvement in what most people would consider child pornography or an immature model going sideways and accusing you of something and you are going to be in for a rough ride as they investigate the claims.  Shooting a minor nude is probaly not worth that.

I asked my lawyer because I was paranoid about having nude images on my Photo.net portfolio mixed in with my potrait images of underage girls.  He said there is no problem at all.
Jul 17 07 05:55 pm  Link  Quote 
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