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Photographer
Steve Campbell
Posts: 25
Louisville, Kentucky, US


I am not sure about all over... but it sure seems that this area is getting swamped with model from 5 ft. to 5.5 or so. Is the market changing in your area?  Are these models finding work othen then the nude glamour market?  I would love to hear your comments.  Thanks.
Dec 07 05 04:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Maggie Shirk
Posts: 91
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


I think it depends on the work they are trying to get.  There are a lot of short models who do glamour work, but there are also many of us who work successfully as commercial models.  Just as long as we keep level headed and know our limitations and areas at which we can thrive we can overcome the height issue.  Face it, unless you are under 21 over 5'9" and less than 120lbs you will not likely work in the fashion industry... and with pressure like that... sheesh its a wonder anyone wants to !  smile LOL!
Dec 07 05 04:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Glamour Boulevard
Posts: 8,628
Sacramento, California, US


I dont see how a short girl cant get fashion work and such. dont short people wear clothes too,lol. there has to be fashion work for short people out there.
Dec 07 05 04:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,657
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Glamour Boulevard wrote:
I dont see how a short girl cant get fashion work and such. dont short people wear clothes too,lol. there has to be fashion work for short people out there.

They don't make samples in their sizes, so they don't hire short models.

(Plus they've found that taller models sell clothes better.  So what ya gonna do?)

Dec 07 05 05:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lapis
Posts: 8,424
Chicago, Illinois, US


short women look better naked.
Dec 07 05 05:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
DawnElizabeth
Posts: 3,907
Fayetteville, North Carolina, US


Lapis wrote:
short women look better naked.

What? You've seen me naked? WHen? I demand to know....

(giggles)

Dec 07 05 05:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,657
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Lapis wrote:
short women look better naked.

That's because they don't fit right in clothes top designers make. tongue

Dec 07 05 05:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Glamour Boulevard
Posts: 8,628
Sacramento, California, US


Brian Diaz wrote:

They don't make samples in their sizes, so they don't hire short models.

(Plus they've found that taller models sell clothes better.  So what ya gonna do?)

If clothing samples arent made in short girl sizes, how do the short girls get clothes to buy,lol.

Dec 07 05 05:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,657
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Glamour Boulevard wrote:

If clothing samples arent made in short girl sizes, how do the short girls get clothes to buy,lol.

Samples are worn by models to get buyers to order clothes.  The clothes that are sold in stores aren't samples, and they usually aren't custom fitted by the designers to each customer.

Dec 07 05 05:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
nyx
Posts: 186
London, Arkansas, US


Lapis wrote:
short women look better naked.

I agree.

Dec 07 05 06:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JT Hodges
Posts: 2,191
Austin, Texas, US


Lapis wrote:
short women look better naked.

This business has enough limitations. Why just the short ones?
wink

Dec 07 05 08:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Mayae
Posts: 52
Toledo, Illinois, US


I agree you will probably never see short models doing runway or high fashion work. However there are many short models who find work in the commercial print market.
Dec 07 05 09:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Casting Director
GRACE KOFTEKIAN
Posts: 3,925


I have shot with hundreds of girls from all over the world and height does not make a difference.  It is all in how the images are taken.  The shortest model I have ever worked with as 4'9".  She modeled for Playboy many times and is an awesome model.  The talled model I worked with was 6'3" and she was fun as well.  A good photographer knows how to shoot the right angles in order to capture the desired images....

Hal Yarbrough
CEO & Primary Photographer
EGO Swimwear Company
MM # 448
Dec 07 05 09:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,657
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Mayae wrote:
I agree you will probably never see short models doing runway or high fashion work. However there are many short models who find work in the commercial print market.

According to www.newmodels.com, which is written by an expert on the industry, the average female commercial print model is 5'6 3/4".

Dec 08 05 01:46 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MELissaMOORE
Posts: 1,939
Fairfield, California, US


I never thought I would even get this much work being 5'4" 31 year's old and after having 3 kid's, I am happy not doing fashion anyway.
Now let's just hope my daughter is taller, she want's to model.
Kisses,
MEL
Dec 08 05 01:50 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Mayae
Posts: 52
Toledo, Illinois, US


Brian Diaz wrote:
According to www.newmodels.com, which is written by an expert on the industry, the average female commercial print model is 5'6 3/4".

It also says that there are exceptions,and that some 5'4 models have found work in commercial/print.

Dec 08 05 02:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
bobby sargent
Posts: 4,151
Deming, New Mexico, US


Well for what I do short models are just as good as tall models. 

I put on my trip shoots.  All I care about is CAN THE MODEL DO THE JOB. 

Tall, short, young or old if they are good and can work good then I will hire them. 
I have done way more short models   5'5" or shorter than taller models. bs
Dec 08 05 06:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Moraxian
Posts: 2,607
Germantown, Maryland, US


I've worked with ladies with varying heights from 4' 10" tall all the way up to 6' 0" tall.  (And when I say 4' 10", Tammy was that if she wore 2 inch heels...)  There is no reason a lady who is under 5' 10" can't be a model for any number of things, even runway...
Dec 08 05 08:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
James Jackson Fashion
Posts: 11,039
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


Moraxian wrote:
There is no reason a lady who is under 5' 10" can't be a model for any number of things, even runway...

Why is it everyone insists on saying things like that?

There *is* a reason...and it's not anything anyone can control.

Are there jobs for shorter models? Yes

Are there many? NO

Will shorter models be limited in their castings? YES

Will a 5'6" model do runway in New York, Milan, or Paris...ever...?  NO!

Dec 08 05 09:19 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Cynthia Leigh
Posts: 799
New Orleans, Louisiana, US


raveneyes wrote:
Will a 5'6" model do runway in New York, Milan, or Paris...ever...?  NO!

There's a very notable exception to that comment.

*But* as a 5'5 model, while it'd be nice to do runway, I'd be more than happy to do commercial as that's where the money is at ^_~

Oh, and to answer the original question, you're living in a non-major modeling market, so agencies in your area aren't going to have the strict guidelines that agencies in NYC, L.A., or Miami have.

Dec 08 05 09:36 am  Link  Quote 
Model
theda
Posts: 21,712
New York, New York, US


Lapis wrote:
short women look better naked.

I resent that!

Dec 08 05 11:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
James Jackson Fashion
Posts: 11,039
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


theda wrote:

I resent that!

Moderators look better naked?

Dec 08 05 11:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,657
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Mayae wrote:
It also says that there are exceptions,and that some 5'4 models have found work in commercial/print.

Exactly.  It's an average.

Dec 08 05 11:27 am  Link  Quote 
Model
ang m
Posts: 511
Chicago, Illinois, US


Well being 5' 6" and not looking to take off my clothes any time in the near future - I know I have an uphill battle - but anything good is worth working hard for. 

ang
Dec 08 05 11:37 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Nemi
Posts: 27,411
Jamaica, New York, US


Oy, this topic AGAIN?
Dec 08 05 11:38 am  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
Z D E S I G N S
Posts: 103
Sarasota, Florida, US


Nemi wrote:
Oy, this topic AGAIN?

DITTO!

I've said it before and I'll say it again ...
As a designer I absolutely want a tall model over a short model - no question about it! The clothing patterns are already made at for a standard height of 5'9", for gowns and most pants anyway ....

I don't want to waste time bringing up the hem for a short girl when I can have a tall girl model it as is.

smile LESS WORK = HAPPY DESIGNER smile

Dec 08 05 11:44 am  Link  Quote 
Model
_AA_
Posts: 6,703
Clearwater, Florida, US


raveneyes wrote:
Will a 5'6" model do runway in New York, Milan, or Paris...ever...?  NO!

Actually, there are exceptions to everything. There are a few designers who are producing petite lines of clothing. There are even a couple of petite fashion magazines that have recently entered the scene. Why wouldn't the designers of petite lines also run fashion shows? I spoke to one upcoming designer in NYC back in September who intends to do exactly that. Granted, this may be the exception and not the rule, but never say never! wink  Oh, and on a related note, I was signed to a contract with an agency in Arizona to do a winter fashion shoot for a petite fashion magazine. That particular shoot is currently on hold, unfortunately, but the work is definately there, even if it's very limited.

For shorter models, and older models, the bulk of non-glamour work (I, for one, don't do glamour) is in commercial advertising and lifesyle/editorial print work. There is also work available in commercial stock photography, if you can locate photographers who do stock work. My best suggestion would be to 1) look into talent agencies in your area, and 2) look up photographers who specialize in this type of work. You can also contact small advertising agencies directly, as to speak to the art director, and ask him or her how the agency finds the talent they use in their print work.

Hope this helps!

Dec 08 05 12:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
ang m
Posts: 511
Chicago, Illinois, US


Andrea  You are an inspiration and role model!!  Thanks for the post.

ang
Dec 08 05 01:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
_AA_
Posts: 6,703
Clearwater, Florida, US


Z DESIGNS wrote:
The clothing patterns are already made at for a standard height of 5'9", for gowns and most pants anyway ....

I don't want to waste time bringing up the hem for a short girl when I can have a tall girl model it as is.

Oddly enough, I wear all of my clothing right off the rack, and have never worn a petite in my life (they look like floods on me). lol. I don't remember ever bringing up a hem on a singe pair of pants. Well, not that I was hemming for myself, at least. Sometimes, it comes down to one's build. It's a shame that folks assume that if you are shorter, you can't wear the clothes just as they are. Some of us can. wink

Dec 08 05 01:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
James Jackson Fashion
Posts: 11,039
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


Andrea-Anderson wrote:
Actually, there are exceptions to everything. There are a few designers who are producing petite lines of clothing. There are even a couple of petite fashion magazines that have recently entered the scene. Why wouldn't the designers of petite lines also run fashion shows? I spoke to one upcoming designer in NYC back in September who intends to do exactly that. Granted, this may be the exception and not the rule, but never say never! wink  Oh, and on a related note, I was signed to a contract with an agency in Arizona to do a winter fashion shoot for a petite fashion magazine. That particular shoot is currently on hold, unfortunately, but the work is definately there, even if it's very limited.

Andrea, I can't count the number of times I've heard people in fashion say they were going to start working with petite models or plus models or inexperienced models.  It almost always falls through because it doesn't sell.  It's a great thing to be nice and PC, but it doesn't work for the average person.  I'm not holding my breath anymore.

Andrea-Anderson wrote:
For shorter models, and older models, the bulk of non-glamour work (I, for one, don't do glamour) is in commercial advertising and lifesyle/editorial print work. There is also work available in commercial stock photography, if you can locate photographers who do stock work. My best suggestion would be to 1) look into talent agencies in your area, and 2) look up photographers who specialize in this type of work. You can also contact small advertising agencies directly, as to speak to the art director, and ask him or her how the agency finds the talent they use in their print work.

Hope this helps!

You are absolutely correct here.  Good advice

Dec 08 05 01:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
_AA_
Posts: 6,703
Clearwater, Florida, US


sicilianbabe wrote:
Andrea  You are an inspiration and role model!!  Thanks for the post.

ang

Thank you for the compliment. I'm glad I inspire you!! As I see it, if you want something enough... work to find a way to make it happen. At the very least, perhaps you can make it easier for those who will follow. Things will never change unless some of us are willing to push for it. And, the best way to improve ourselves is to strive for more.

I'm never just satisfied with where I've been... I'm always looking to do something new. If you look at it that way, then there is always someplace to go! wink

Dec 08 05 01:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
_AA_
Posts: 6,703
Clearwater, Florida, US


raveneyes wrote:
Andrea, I can't count the number of times I've heard people in fashion say they were going to start working with petite models or plus models or inexperienced models.  It almost always falls through because it doesn't sell.  It's a great thing to be nice and PC, but it doesn't work for the average person.  I'm not holding my breath anymore.

I certainly understand and appreciate how you feel.

With regards to sales.. I think a lot of this comes down to marketing. It's not that clothes for petites don't sell. There are stores that cater to the petite market and do very well. But, I don't think the marketing is the same as to the average market. You can sell a snowball to an eskimo if you can give him a good enough reason to buy it! wink

I also agree that it doesn't work for the average person. But, at some point, I think we have to push the envelope so that things change, or they never will. I've never been satisfied with people saying "you can't", if I personally know that I can. Sometimes, though, it's hard to make other people see it. I guess my perspective is that if I do nothing to try and change the 'standard', then the standard will never change... and I won't really have a right to gripe about it! lol. smile

raveneyes wrote:
You are absolutely correct here.  Good advice

Always glad to help! big_smile

Dec 08 05 01:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
Z D E S I G N S
Posts: 103
Sarasota, Florida, US


Andrea-Anderson wrote:
Oddly enough, I wear all of my clothing right off the rack, and have never worn a petite in my life (they look like floods on me). lol. I don't remember ever bringing up a hem on a singe pair of pants. Well, not that I was hemming for myself, at least. Sometimes, it comes down to one's build. It's a shame that folks assume that if you are shorter, you can't wear the clothes just as they are. Some of us can. wink

I wasn't speaking of the clothing you find in stores, there you're more than likely right. I'm talking about the actual clothing patterns used to make clothing from scratch. If you look at the lengths on the back of any gown pattern, skirt pattern, etc., the minimum standard length given in the pattern is 58 inches (which will fit someone who is 5'8" from shoulder to hem) for gowns and 42 inches from the waist for long skirts ...

So my point was, if the pattern is already made for someone of that height and is usually lengthened more in the cutting and sewing process (I do it intentionally that way anyhow), why give the designer, more work? See what I mean?

I didn't make the rules, I just play along smile

Dec 08 05 01:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lapis
Posts: 8,424
Chicago, Illinois, US


theda wrote:

I resent that!

at 5'7" you and I both are in that wonderful limbo area where we aren't good for anything. but getting naked is fun anyway.

Dec 08 05 01:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Teresa Devlin
Posts: 8
Jacksonville, Florida, US


Z DESIGNS wrote:

"If you look at the lengths on the back of any gown pattern, skirt pattern, etc., the minimum standard length given in the pattern is 58 inches, equalling 5 feet, 8 inches."

Does your tape measure actually show 58 inches as being equal to 5 feet, 8 inches?  Perhaps mine is defective, but it shows 58 inches as equalling 4 feet 10 inches.  Hmmmm.


Ooops!  I see it was edited while I was replying.  But still - 5 feet 8 inches from shoulder to hem?  In other words, patterns are made to fit someone approximately 6 feet 6 inches tall, assuming they have a head and neck that extend above the shoulder?  Not many of those around, are there?
Dec 08 05 02:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Mayae
Posts: 52
Toledo, Illinois, US


Teresa Devlin wrote:
Z DESIGNS wrote:

Does your tape measure actually show 58 inches as being equal to 5 feet, 8 inches?  Perhaps mine is defective, but it shows 58 inches as equalling 4 feet 10 inches.  Hmmmm.

right on,thats just what I was about to say.People need to do the math,before making comments.

Dec 08 05 02:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
Z D E S I G N S
Posts: 103
Sarasota, Florida, US


Nope, you need to measure from your shoulder to the floor ... how far down is that?

I'm 5'8" inches and from shoulder to hem I measure 58 inches ... like you said, 4 feet 10 inches is 58 inches ... correct .. FROM THE SHOULDER DOWN.
Dec 08 05 02:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
Z D E S I G N S
Posts: 103
Sarasota, Florida, US


Teresa Devlin wrote:
In other words, patterns are made to fit someone approximately 6 feet 6 inches tall, assuming they have a head and neck that extend above the shoulder?  Not many of those around, are there?

This doesn't even make sense ... patterns don't include the head and neck.
Clothing isn't made to go over or around your head.
That would look real silly.
It's always measured from the shoulder down.

Dec 08 05 03:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Teresa Devlin
Posts: 8
Jacksonville, Florida, US


It may not "make sense" to you, but you are the one who said:  "(which will fit someone who is 5'8" from shoulder to hem) " - that does say 5'8" from shoulder to hem, does it not?  You do recognize that 58" and 5'8" are not the same, do you not?  You're the one who was measuring 5'8" from shoulder to hem, so we must assume that the person will have a head and neck that extend above that 5'8" level, correct?  That, then, equals a person some 6'6 inches tall, unless the gown is going to drag the lower 10" on the floor.
Dec 08 05 03:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
Z D E S I G N S
Posts: 103
Sarasota, Florida, US


Teresa Devlin wrote:
It may not "make sense" to you, but you are the one who said:  "(which will fit someone who is 5'8" from shoulder to hem) " - that does say 5'8" from shoulder to hem, does it not?  You do recognize that 58" and 5'8" are not the same, do you not?  You're the one who was measuring 5'8" from shoulder to hem, so we must assume that the person will have a head and neck that extend above that 5'8" level, correct?  That, then, equals a person some 6'6 inches tall, unless the gown is going to drag the lower 10" on the floor.

What part of this do you not get?

I'm 5'8" inches in height, and 58 inches is what I measure from shoulder to hem, which happens to be the standard pattern measurement for gowns, which is why designers use models who are 5'8" and over as opposed to shorter ones, such as 5'4".

See the point?

Dec 08 05 03:11 pm  Link  Quote 
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