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Photographer
Dudley Watson
Posts: 1,737
Roseburg, Oregon, US


I didn't find an exact answer using the search function, but I was wondering if any models agreed to do some nude photos, only to discover, during the shoot or afterwords that the photographer was under the legal age limit?

If during the shoot, did you immediately stop, put your clothes back on, and continue or simply leave?

If after the shoot, what did you do?
Nov 08 07 10:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
- Phil H -
Posts: 25,178
Bury Saint Edmunds, England, United Kingdom


this could be an interesting topic *bump*
Nov 08 07 10:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
( ANT ) Mgaphoto
Posts: 4,979
San Diego, California, US


I wonder if there is actually a law against this... knowing big bro there probably is so they can get some more money off of you sad
Nov 08 07 11:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
- Phil H -
Posts: 25,178
Bury Saint Edmunds, England, United Kingdom


If a school teacher can be arrested for being nekkid with an underage kid, one would think a model could as well if she was nekked with an underage photographer. But, I don't know, hence the bump ....... I'm curious to see other photographers viewpoints
Nov 08 07 11:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
D M M
Posts: 7,905
New York, New York, US


It's indecent exposure to a minor, I thought.
Nov 08 07 11:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SMK Images
Posts: 743
Campbell, California, US


Diana Miranda wrote:
It's indecent exposure to a minor, I thought.

That is the way I understand the laws in most states...

Nov 08 07 11:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
- Phil H -
Posts: 25,178
Bury Saint Edmunds, England, United Kingdom


Diana Miranda wrote:
It's indecent exposure to a minor, I thought.

I don't know, if the underage photographer had solicited/hired the model without disclosing their age, I should imagine that it opens a real can of legal worms.
There are without doubt a lot of underage kids out there that look over 18 and so there would be little reason for the model to think they were in fact underage.

I would also imagine that models are rarely in the position where they have thought or needed to verify the age of the photographer that she is modeling for.

Nov 08 07 11:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SMK Images
Posts: 743
Campbell, California, US


Dreamshot Photography wrote:

I don't know, if the underage photographer had solicited/hired the model without disclosing their age, I should imagine that it opens a real can of legal worms.
There are without doubt a lot of underage kids out there that look over 18 and so there would be little reason for the model to think they were in fact underage.

I would also imagine that models are rarely in the position where they have thought or needed to verify the age of the photographer that she is modeling for.

Very true, but nudity is looked at a wee bit differently on this side of the pond, so to speak. While I have never been to England, I did live in Germany for a few years and I recall nudity (even under-age) laws being rather relaxed in comparison to here in the States.

Nov 08 07 11:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Feral Oneiric
Posts: 5,949
Portland, Oregon, US


Well, I've never shot with anyone young enough for it to even be a question... but if I did, that would be effed up!

I'd tell his parents!
Nov 08 07 11:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nerdscarf
Posts: 136
New York, New York, US


eh. That type creepy. I'm upfront and honest about my age from the beginning. I thinks its effed up on that photogs part cause he pretty much lied. It could have gotten you aressted.
Nov 09 07 12:01 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 34,425
San Francisco, California, US


Actually, there are a few things one has to understand. 

First, from the perspective of the photographer, it isn't illegal for a minor to photograph a model over the age of eighteen in the nude.  If the model was under eighteeen, the same laws would apply no matter what the age of the photographer is.

Second, there are art schools all over the country that teach figure drawing to students under eighteen.  There is no requirement in college that you must be eighteen to enroll in the class and there are even some high schools with progressive art departments that have live nude models.

Second, being nude to model isn't indecent exposure, regardless of the photographer's age.  If you look up the definition of indecent exposure on Findlaw you will discover that it is:  Indecent exposure laws in most states make it a crime to purposefully display one's genitals in public, causing others to be alarmed or offended.   Obviously if you are photographing the model you won't be alarmed.

Taking a picture isn't the same as sex.  So if you stripped and flashed a minor, that is one thing, mere non-sexual nudity is not.  Think about it, how can you go to a naked beach with your kids and not get arrested.  Underage teen models are routinely used in fashion shows.  Have you ever been backstage?  There are men and women, of all ages, in various stages of undress, including fully nude.

What I am reading in this thread is a bunch of puritanical nonsense.  There are some things that could happen on a shoot which would result in unlawful conduct.  For example, if a model were to masturbate for the teen, that could be construed as indecent.  The important thing to note though that it is the model, not the photographer that would have the problems.

Let's get away from paranoia and look at the law realistically.
Nov 09 07 12:01 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Stina C
Posts: 480
Sacramento, California, US


I have posed for figure drawing classes where underage male students were present. They were around 17 years old and had parental consent to take the class. I was informed that a couple of the students were 17 and enrolled with parental consent. I posed for a class. I din't have sex with anyone. I didn't make any lewd gestures. I just helped make some art. Anyone who has a problem with that is the definition of mentally ill.
Nov 09 07 02:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
dave wright phx
Posts: 13,509
Phoenix, Arizona, US


If you're a model posing nude, and you find out the photographer is underage - why would you possibly have a problem with that?
Nov 09 07 02:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LuckyShots
Posts: 268
Grafton, Wisconsin, US


I was taking figure drawing classes at 16... with a signed parent permission slip anyway.
Nov 09 07 02:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
le provocateur
Posts: 5,506
Miami, Florida, US


come on people, unless the little shooter is bopping the model, there is no issue.

If a 16 year old goes to a nude beach are the police going to come and arrest all of the nudists for indecent exposure in front of a minor?
Nov 09 07 03:35 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Kelsey-leigh
Posts: 3,777
Calgary, Alberta, Canada


Nick Zantop wrote:
come on people, unless the little shooter is bopping the model, there is no issue.

If a 16 year old goes to a nude beach are the police going to come and arrest all of the nudists for indecent exposure in front of a minor?

on a bad day you never know tongue

Nov 09 07 03:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
le provocateur
Posts: 5,506
Miami, Florida, US


Feral Ferox wrote:
Well, I've never shot with anyone young enough for it to even be a question... but if I did, that would be effed up!

I'd tell his parents!

effed up? so it's ok for an 18 year old photographer to shoot nudes, but not a 17 year old photographer? I fail to see the difference, or why it is so shocking.

Will photographing a nude model somehow tarnish a young mind?

Nov 09 07 03:39 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
mjkhfryimhg
Posts: 2,974
Tucson, Arizona, US


Nick Zantop wrote:

effed up? so it's ok for an 18 year old photographer to shoot nudes, but not a 17 year old photographer? I fail to see the difference, or why it is so shocking.

Will photographing a nude model somehow tarnish a young mind?

I saw my aunt naked once and I was never the same.

Nov 09 07 03:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Meeks Digital Photo
Posts: 78
Sonoma, California, US


Feral Ferox wrote:
......................

I'd tell his parents!

Nice, so you automatically assume that the photographer is a "he"

Nov 09 07 03:41 am  Link  Quote 
Body Painter
Bare Beauty Bodypaint
Posts: 358
Gardner, Massachusetts, US


I was 15 when I first started doing bodypainting. Everyone I painted knew my age and didn't care about how young I was. It's not really a big deal unless someone thinks it is and for me no one thought it was.
Nov 09 07 03:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
WillSpringfield
Posts: 3,230
Los Angeles, California, US


HA HA there is actually a great one in NY well he WAS an underage photographer SK photos. he's GREAT and young i dont see a problem with women being nude for him. BUT if its not sex.... is it illegal?
Nov 09 07 03:46 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 21,516
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna


Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
Second, being nude to model isn't indecent exposure, regardless of the photographer's age.  If you look up the definition of indecent exposure on Findlaw you will discover that it is:  Indecent exposure laws in most states make it a crime to purposefully display one's genitals in public, causing others to be alarmed or offended.   Obviously if you are photographing the model you won't be alarmed.

As there have been a couple of UK posts so here is the UK view. Both elements have to be present and it goes to intent:

Sexual Offences Act 2003

66 Exposure

(1) A person commits an offence if—

(a) he intentionally exposes his genitals, and

(b) he intends that someone will see them and be caused alarm or distress.
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
Let's get away from paranoia and look at the law realistically.

Only one caveat, Alan... the law, to be looked at realistically, needs to be looked to on a state-by-state basis. Remember the Ohio statutes we have looked at before that suggested that the mere presence of a minor and in a circumstance involving nudity [alone], but not the minor's nudity, could be sufficient for the offence.

I will also suggest that Arkansas law [contra the practice of nudism in that case], which I have looked at in another context, would go equally as far as that in Ohio.

Studio36

Nov 09 07 07:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


Stina C wrote:
I posed for a class. I din't have sex with anyone. I didn't make any lewd gestures. I just helped make some art. Anyone who has a problem with that is the definition of mentally ill.

they aren't mentally ill, typically their parents just fucked them up....

Nov 09 07 08:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Austin IMagemaker
Posts: 7,779
Austin, Texas, US


Dudley Watson wrote:
I didn't find an exact answer using the search function, but I was wondering if any models agreed to do some nude photos, only to discover, during the shoot or afterwords that the photographer was under the legal age limit?

If during the shoot, did you immediately stop, put your clothes back on, and continue or simply leave?

If after the shoot, what did you do?

Nov 09 07 08:11 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Melusine
Posts: 579
Ocean Grove, New Jersey, US


Diana Miranda wrote:
It's indecent exposure to a minor, I thought.

what a perv. but yes, you are the adult and you will be the one getting into trouble.

Nov 09 07 02:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GSphotography
Posts: 667
Cromwell, Connecticut, US


But how bout this ... when you are in college you can take drawing classes and in some of them they have nude models posing ... do they check every students age when they enroll ... i understand most everyone is over 18 in college but you never know
Nov 09 07 02:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
eric ely
Posts: 327
Naugatuck, Connecticut, US


Diana Miranda wrote:
It's indecent exposure to a minor, I thought.

indecent exposure is only covered when the exposure is other than for artistic purposes,or more distinctly, sexual purposes. artistic exposure is constitutionally protected. this is referring to public nudity, so the same would apply to an underage photographer.
think nude beaches and nudist resorts, where everyone, including minors are nude. they are safe because they are not sexually oriented when it comes to their nudity.
Think about college art classes where some of the freshmen are not 18, yet their is nude models.
You cannot however incorporate

Nov 18 07 12:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ray Cornett
Posts: 9,203
Sacramento, California, US


If mere nudity in the presence of a minor were illegal anywhere, many mothers everywhere would be arrested immediately after giving birth,no?
Nov 18 07 12:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Greg Lankenau
Posts: 399
Fort Myers, Florida, US


Stina and Alan -- voices of reason!

You know, good thing I didn't join MM when I (or my friends who posed for me) were under 18, because I probably would have been so petrified with all the "nudes under 18 = DEATH!!!" nonsense on MM to ever take a single picture.

Well, maybe some landscapes.

-G
Nov 18 07 04:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RT Photography Co
Posts: 161
Goffstown, New Hampshire, US


It has to be illegal. One is a minor one is not. I would not want to take that chance.
Nov 18 07 04:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Brittney_Nicole
Posts: 317
Central, Alaska, US


first thought that comes to my mind is maybe contributing to the delinquency of a minor? Interesting topic though!!!
Nov 18 07 04:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Legacys 7
Posts: 33,750
San Francisco, California, US


WillSpringfield wrote:
HA HA there is actually a great one in NY well he WAS an underage photographer SK photos. he's GREAT and young i dont see a problem with women being nude for him. BUT if its not sex.... is it illegal?

Paranoid junkies on here. The Europeans are laughing their asses off when read threads like these. It's common over in Europe. Here you are a pervert if you do.

Nov 18 07 04:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kam Arose
Posts: 6,014
Berkeley, California, US


If having minors make art with nude models is a crime, SFAI and Academy of Art University, as well as many other art colleges with precollege programs, have a lot of explaining to do.

I'm not a photographer, so I may not have shot nudes before, but I've been drawing nudes, in the presence of live, professional models, since I was sixteen.
Nov 18 07 08:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BritWoollardPhotography
Posts: 771
Chicago, Illinois, US


Diana Miranda wrote:
It's indecent exposure to a minor, I thought.

Ah, I was thinking why this would be a problem, but then Diana just made it clear.

Nov 18 07 08:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BritWoollardPhotography
Posts: 771
Chicago, Illinois, US


allicette wrote:

on a bad day you never know tongue

HAHAHAHA.

Nov 18 07 08:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A Beautiful Chaos
Posts: 2
Victorville, California, US


D M M  wrote:
It's indecent exposure to a minor, I thought.

actually if the underage photographer dose not focus on the genitalia and or nipples it is not considered  indecent  exposure to a minor it is just considered Artistic nude photography i am an underage photographer and i have shot nude models like i stated before as long as it is not focusing on genitalia and or nipples it is okay for an underage photographer  to take nude pictures of an overage model

Mar 13 09 12:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul Bryson Photography
Posts: 48,035
Hollywood, Florida, US


I'm an underage photographer. I'm not old enough to get the senior discounts yet. sad
Mar 13 09 01:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Janice Marie Foote
Posts: 11,483


D M M  wrote:
It's indecent exposure to a minor, I thought.

That's what I would think!

Mar 13 09 01:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jake Garn
Posts: 3,958
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


If nudity in front of a minor is illegal then nude beaches and locker rooms would ban all minors.
Mar 13 09 03:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
CGI Images
Posts: 4,989
Wichita, Kansas, US


Dudley Watson wrote:
I didn't find an exact answer using the search function, but I was wondering if any models agreed to do some nude photos, only to discover, during the shoot or afterwords that the photographer was under the legal age limit?

If during the shoot, did you immediately stop, put your clothes back on, and continue or simply leave?

If after the shoot, what did you do?

Legal age for what exactly?

Mar 13 09 03:18 pm  Link  Quote 
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