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Model
Sarah Hunter II
Posts: 1,462
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


I've had a few bondage photographers recently contact me about shooting for their Clips4Sale stores online.  I'm still a little shaky on exactly how the site works and I hesitate to agree to shoot for someone who only lists any 4Sale store as their only website. 

Can anyone explain to me exactly how the site works?  Models: have you ever shot for any of the various 4Sale websites?  What was your experience with it/them?
Jul 29 08 12:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeanette Thompson
Posts: 889
Germantown, Maryland, US


Nicotine wrote:
I've had a few bondage photographers recently contact me about shooting for their Clips4Sale stores online.  I'm still a little shaky on exactly how the site works and I hesitate to agree to shoot for someone who only lists any 4Sale store as their only website. 

Can anyone explain to me exactly how the site works?  Models: have you ever shot for any of the various 4Sale websites?  What was your experience with it/them?

Hey, I can give you some insight. I don't ONLY shoot video however, but clips are the bread and butter of my balloon fetish site (balloon popping just doesn't come across the same with photography and it's so hard to catch the balloon popping on a camera anyway).

There are thousands of 'producers' who use clips4sale. Weeding out the good from the bad is tough because it's not a networking site or a portfolio site. The only purpose of the 4sale sites is to push product. I wouldn't worry, however, if that is the producers only website. Depending upon what they do, stills just may not make much money for them.

If they have a MM profile, it can't hurt to check them out and makes things so much easier in the long run. If not, it shouldn't be too hard to get references for them. Ask for a link to their 4sale store and see if you recognize any of the models they use as well as asking for references.

Also, depending upon who the producer us, some of us may know them. Feel free to drop me a line and, if I don't know them, I may know someone who does.

Jul 29 08 01:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DANACOLE
Posts: 10,157
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


OP,
I sent you a pm...telling you exactly what those sites are about... though the model above Me answered it pretty well also..
Jul 29 08 02:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeanette Thompson
Posts: 889
Germantown, Maryland, US


*smirk* They aren't ALL porn. Most of them are though. There are a lot of fetish sites on there. I shoot fetish. I don't shoot porn.

Anyway, yeah.
Jul 29 08 02:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DANACOLE
Posts: 10,157
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


Jeanette Thompson wrote:
*smirk* They aren't ALL porn. Most of them are though. There are a lot of fetish sites on there. I shoot fetish. I don't shoot porn.

Anyway, yeah.

Indeed... some are just for fetishes....I see more fetish stores then porn usually..
I too have a store there...so I am knowledgable as well : )

However, there is a mix of it ALL on there... Whatever one (buyer)wants to see..it can probably be found on clips4sale,images4sale, or vids4sale.

Jul 29 08 02:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeanette Thompson
Posts: 889
Germantown, Maryland, US


DanaCole wrote:

Indeed... some are just for fetishes....I see more fetish stores then porn usually..
I too have a store there...so I am knowledgable as well : )

However, there is a mix of it ALL on there... Whatever one (buyer)wants to see..it can probably be found on clips4sale,images4sale, or vids4sale.

Pretty much, yeah. I am sometimes amazed at the array of different things one can find, even though I know I shouldn't be.

Please forgive any snarkiness I may convey. I really shouldn't post when I'm in this mood, LOL. I can't sleep though, and am bored. I hate that.

Jul 29 08 02:46 am  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 21,621
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna


Nicotine wrote:
[not quoted]

To be frank, though the others above this post have kind of alluded to it without saying it. Those sites are 21st Century adult book shoppes [sic], but without the rain coats; private booths or boxes of tissues. LOL

Yes, there is clearly adult material there, but also a lot of specialist stuff as well [e.g. fetish] One of my own clients uses clips4sale and all he makes and sells are R-Rated girl fight vids. All the sites in that class are effectively the same as content brokers, distributors, middlemen and jobbers combined.

Studio36

Jul 29 08 03:07 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Sarah Hunter II
Posts: 1,462
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


Most of the ones who have contacted me have also worked with other models I know, so my objection isn't usually about finding references.

I realize that, by owning the copyright, they are able to do whatever they want with the images but bothers me that the images could end up just anywhere and that the photographer stands to make much more money off a set than I.  It seems as though the model is really getting the raw end of the deal.
Jul 29 08 03:07 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Sarah Hunter II
Posts: 1,462
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


studio36uk wrote:
To be frank, though the others above this post have kind of alluded to it without saying it. Those sites are 21st Century adult book shoppes [sic], but without the rain coats; private booths or boxes of tissues. LOL
Studio36

That was also my impression.

Jul 29 08 03:08 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeanette Thompson
Posts: 889
Germantown, Maryland, US


Nicotine wrote:
Most of the ones who have contacted me have also worked with other models I know, so my objection isn't usually about finding references.

I realize that, by owning the copyright, they are able to do whatever they want with the images but bothers me that the images could end up just anywhere and that the photographer stands to make much more money off a set than they would be paying me to shoot for them.  It seems as though the model is really getting the raw end of the deal.

Anybody you shoot for at any time, any place, no matter what you're shooting can end up 'just anywhere' and the photographers can end up making much more money off a set than they would be paying you. It's the nature of things.

I shot a book (my own project) and have made more off the sales than I paid all the models to be in it. It's not any different than these sites. Have you ever done any work for bondage sites before? If so, no different than the .4sales sites, except they probably weren't shooting video.

These guys are in the business to MAKE money. You'll find most of them will pay models a good rate for what they do. If you think you're getting the raw end of the deal, start up your own clips store. I know a few models who have or are in the process of it.

Jul 29 08 03:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeanette Thompson
Posts: 889
Germantown, Maryland, US


studio36uk wrote:

To be frank, though the others above this post have kind of alluded to it without saying it. Those sites are 21st Century adult book shoppes [sic], but without the rain coats; private booths or boxes of tissues. LOL

Yes, there is clearly adult material there, but also a lot of specialist stuff as well [e.g. fetish] One of my own clients uses clips4sale and all he makes and sells are R-Rated girl fight vids. All the sites in that class are effectively the same as content brokers, distributors, middlemen and jobbers combined.

Studio36

Yup. I don't have a single bit of nudity in my store. Not one bit. I do pretty okay though. wink

Jul 29 08 03:13 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Sarah Hunter II
Posts: 1,462
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


Jeanette Thompson wrote:

I think I know who you are, actually.  I just shot with Moraxian a few weeks ago smile

Jul 29 08 03:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeanette Thompson
Posts: 889
Germantown, Maryland, US


Nicotine wrote:

I think I know who you are, actually.  I just shot with Moraxian a few weeks ago smile

Yeah, he's my husband, LOL. I've been dying to work with you myself. He said you were really nice.

Jul 29 08 03:15 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Sarah Hunter II
Posts: 1,462
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


Jeanette Thompson wrote:
Anybody you shoot for at any time, any place, no matter what you're shooting can end up 'just anywhere' and the photographers can end up making much more money off a set than they would be paying you. It's the nature of things.

Oh yeah, I completely understand that.  I don't know if it's the nature of a lot of the content on the site or what but the GWC factor seems like it would be a lot higher on such a site.

PM-ing you, btw.

Jul 29 08 03:16 am  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 21,621
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna


Nicotine wrote:
Most of the ones who have contacted me have also worked with other models I know, so my objection isn't usually about finding references.

I realize that, by owning the copyright, they are able to do whatever they want with the images but bothers me that the images could end up just anywhere and that the photographer stands to make much more money off a set than I.  It seems as though the model is really getting the raw end of the deal.

A) Yes, it is true that the material could end up practically anywhere but so could it through ANY other means of distribution.

B) That they can even make ANY money off the sales?... well they may or may not even cover costs, or, alternatively, it could take a - l  o  n  g - time to just turn a profit [over production costs and fees] to do so. It is not a get rich quick scheme for producers. Some do well; and some will have content on those sites that will never sell a single copy.

The key for a producer is entirely in genre, sales volume, and trying to get a repeat purchasing customer base - a "following", if you will, for their particular work or for particular performers they use.

Studio36

Jul 29 08 03:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeanette Thompson
Posts: 889
Germantown, Maryland, US


Nicotine wrote:

Oh yeah, I completely understand that.  I don't know if it's the nature of a lot of the content on the site or what but the GWC factor seems like it would be a lot higher on such a site.

PM-ing you, btw.

Okay smile

And yeah, the GWC factor is probably pretty high there. Of course, it's pretty high here too! It's not an automatic red flag, however, if the .4sale site is listed as their only website. It just means they're focused on the clip/video aspect of their business. I'm still building my website so it links right to my clips store, heh.

Jul 29 08 03:19 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Sarah Hunter II
Posts: 1,462
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


I guess another thing that worries me is that I don't want to be pigeonholed as being solely a bondage model if I end up doing a number of 4sale sites at once.
Jul 29 08 03:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeanette Thompson
Posts: 889
Germantown, Maryland, US


Yeah, I can sure understand that. Well, you can afford to be choosy about who you shoot with, I think. Think about the offers, see what they can offer you and if they're really worth it. I do know one fetish model who gets called 'just a bondage model' all the time. Yeah, she's pretty good at it (and loves doing it), but she does do other things.
Jul 29 08 03:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeanette Thompson
Posts: 889
Germantown, Maryland, US


studio36uk wrote:
B) That they can even make ANY money off the sales?... well they may or may not even cover costs, or, alternatively, it could take a - l  o  n  g - time to just turn a profit [over production costs and fees] to do so. It is not a get rich quick scheme for producers. Some do well; and some will have content on those sites that will never sell a single copy.

Hence my 'pretty okay' comment. I'm not going to get rich off this by any means. At least not right now. Though business is slowly picking up for me. Part of the problem with the .4sale sites is weeding through all the tons of content.

Jul 29 08 03:31 am  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 21,621
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna


Nicotine wrote:
I guess another thing that worries me is that I don't want to be pigeonholed as being solely a bondage model if I end up doing a number of 4sale sites at once.

That is unlikely. Those buying from the ...4sale sites are seeking particular material in specific genres, even down to being performed in only certain settings or scenarios perhaps with only certain costuming, ect, and are unlikely to be even interested in seeking out other work not specifically produced in nearly the same way. That's what fetish is... it appeals to what the psychiatrists and psychologists call "partiality". So there is no direct connection, necessarily, between the performer and content.

As to what JT does, for example, if someone wants "girls /w balloons" then it often doesn't even matter who the girl is as long as they are playing with balloons. Some buyers may only want "girls dressed /w balloons" some may only want "girls dressed as school girls /w balloons" and some may only want "girls nude /w balloons". They will pick and buy exactly what they are after and leave the rest. Whatever floats the buyer's boat.

Studio36

Jul 29 08 03:34 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Sarah Hunter II
Posts: 1,462
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


studio36uk wrote:
If, as to what JT does, if someone wants "girls w/ balloons" then it often doesn't even matter who the girl is as long as they are playing with balloons. Whatever floats the buyer's boat.

That makes sense.

Jul 29 08 03:49 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 21,621
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna


Nicotine wrote:

studio36uk wrote:
If, as to what JT does, if someone wants "girls w/ balloons" then it often doesn't even matter who the girl is as long as they are playing with balloons. Whatever floats the buyer's boat.
Studio36

That makes sense.

See my edit in the post immediately above yours. It can get a lot more specific than that from the buyer's point of view..

Studio36

Jul 29 08 03:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeanette Thompson
Posts: 889
Germantown, Maryland, US


studio36uk wrote:

That is unlikely. Those buying from the ...4sale sites are seeking particular material in specific genres, even down to being performed in only certain settings or scenarios perhaps with only certain costuming, ect, and are unlikely to be even interested in seeking out other work not specifically produced in nearly the same way. That's what fetish is... it appeals to what the psychiatrists and psychologists call "partiality". So there is no direct connection, necessarily, between the performer and content.

As to what JT does, for example, if someone wants "girls /w balloons" then it often doesn't even matter who the girl is as long as they are playing with balloons. Some buyers may only want "girls dressed /w balloons" some may only want "girls dressed as school girls /w balloons" and some may only want "girls nude /w balloons". They will pick and buy exactly what they are after and leave the rest. Whatever floats the buyer's boat.

Studio36

I think this pretty much covers how buyers buy. I know, for instance, I am very careful to mark my videos for popping or non-popping. Certain buyers won't buy any clips if balloons are being popped. Others only want to see popping clips.

Jul 29 08 03:58 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 21,621
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna


Jeanette Thompson wrote:
I think this pretty much covers how buyers buy. I know, for instance, I am very careful to mark my videos for popping or non-popping. Certain buyers won't buy any clips if balloons are being popped. Others only want to see popping clips.

All true... QFT

Studio36

Jul 29 08 04:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DANACOLE
Posts: 10,157
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


I agree with Jeanette and Studio36uk

buyers can get really specific on what type of clips they want to buy from there....

It would be really hard for you to get put in one category there......

I have a fan base as I know others do as well who have clip4sale stores...So those specific people may come to you specifically.... the others are just random buyers who happen to see that you recently added something to your store....or found you by browsing the category you have clips in....

but if you want to capitalize off of yourself and not have someone else do it or worry they are making ALOT of money off of you.......then start your own store where you are in charge and you do all the work yourself.....

Most clips there range between $3.99-$19.99...some are more...but thats the average...

Either way.....good luck!!!!!
Jul 29 08 04:17 am  Link  Quote 
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