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Forums > Model Colloquy > Underage sister posing nude for pro photogs! Search   Reply
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Photographer
Stephen Fletcher
Posts: 7,117
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Xeris - Dwight wrote:

Why? Do you have some proof or reason to believe that the images are porno or sexually suggestive. Nudity, in and of itself, is NOT illegal. There need to be other factors involved.

Local home town newspaper headline reads:

Xeris-Dwight Photos Underage Girl Nude

A week later on page 15 it mentions that what you did might or might not be illegal.

Is that risk enough for you?

Aug 22 08 06:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
photosbydmp
Posts: 3,808
Shepparton-Mooroopna, Victoria, Australia


glenn my name today wrote:
case for the FBI.

you might even be able to get a reward for turning in this dangerous criminal.

but i bet it will be mighty cool around the thanksgiving table in a few months.

roflmao.

Aug 22 08 06:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
a-n-d-r-e-w
Posts: 10
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Well, she's over 16, so it's legal for her to have consensual sex (in Australia anyway), and it's legal for her to mother a child...
it's legal for her to be seen naked, yet not legal for her to pose or be seen nude in images?   

... who makes these laws? 

*scratches head*
Aug 22 08 06:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
StephenE
Posts: 2,629
Great Neck, New York, US


Moderator Warning!

Soft Shadows Art Photo wrote:
A minor is defined by any person under the age of 18....In this country it is ILLEGAL to photograph a minor nude without consent from the minors parent or guardian in writing and can still be considered child pornography.

Please supply the actual law which states this.

We will be waiting for your response.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Aug 22 08 06:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54,080
Buena Park, California, US


Kimberly Sun wrote:
My little 17 year old sister has started posing nude. She says she's not lying about her age to her affiliates, but she lies on her profile. I'm confused about what to do. I am concerned about her safety, future (as a model) and the careers of the people she works with.

No one including the parents have any control whatsoever over her. She turns 18 in November.

Should I contact authorities? Should I contact the photog(s) and inform them that she is currently 17?

Have you SEEN the photos?  are they inappropriate?

I know that is open to interpretation but it is what it is.

Do you want her to stop? If no, then mind your own business. If yes and she will not stop, then report her to law enforcement/DA.  I'd recommend you have evidence first so tthey can act on that rather than just your word.

Aug 22 08 06:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Greg Kolack
Posts: 17,752
Downers Grove, Illinois, US


Soft Shadows Art Photo wrote:
A minor is defined by any person under the age of 18....In this country it is ILLEGAL to photograph a minor nude without consent from the minors parent or guardian in writing and can still be considered child pornography.
StephenE wrote:
Please supply the actual law which states this.

We will be waiting for your response.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

How about this one as well?

speedsamurai wrote:
I am a prosecutor. It's illegal because it is legally defined as child porn. Contact me.

Aug 22 08 06:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mike Kelcher
Posts: 12,738
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Kimberly,

It sounds like your sister is going through a wild period that is fairly normal for some.  I understand your concern and have only one suggestion. Be her friend and love her.

Doing anything else will only make matters worse. Especially since you are in differing states, making her life harder will only separate you two more. My guess is that her life isn't 100% fantastic right now, and a sister and a friend is what she needs most.

Once your relationship gets better, your advice will mean more to her.

Good luck and don't involve the FBI  geeze!

Let's shoot sometime.
Aug 22 08 06:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeremy Saffer
Posts: 2
Springfield, Massachusetts, US


I would tell the photographers, but the photographers should be professional enough to ask for proof of age

I would also contact the authorities.
Aug 22 08 06:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
StephenE
Posts: 2,629
Great Neck, New York, US


Moderator Warning!

speedsamurai wrote:
I am a prosecutor. It's illegal because it is legally defined as child porn. Contact me.

Please provide the law which states this information.  We are all waiting.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Aug 22 08 06:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PeterSalama Photography
Posts: 60
Los Angeles, California, US


rustphoto wrote:
As per hundreds (maybe thousands) of posts here on MM, posing nude is not illegal for her, nor the photographer. Granted, she can't enter into a contract (not 18), so I don't think the images are usable in anything but a personal portfolio.

You are definitely wrong on this one... Posing nude is not illegal for her BUT it is for the photographer and is considered Child Pornography. Go read the federal law... This can result in a felony if the police and prosecutor decide to make an issue of it.

Aug 22 08 06:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kimberly Sun
Posts: 44
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Scary-Ellen wrote:

lol! ya I noticed that....I also noticed that she is a managed model......I thought managed models were not allowed? *sorry for the threadjack*

Professionals have artist statements. And yes, I have an assistant who helps manage my modeling career.

Aug 22 08 06:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
StephenE
Posts: 2,629
Great Neck, New York, US


Greg Kolack wrote:

Soft Shadows Art Photo wrote:
A minor is defined by any person under the age of 18....In this country it is ILLEGAL to photograph a minor nude without consent from the minors parent or guardian in writing and can still be considered child pornography.
StephenE wrote:
Please supply the actual law which states this.

We will be waiting for your response.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

How about this one as well?


I am just getting up to all the BS posts, one by one  sad

Its never ending.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Aug 22 08 06:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Greg Kolack
Posts: 17,752
Downers Grove, Illinois, US


Christopher Hartman wrote:

Have you SEEN the photos?  are they inappropriate?

I know that is open to interpretation but it is what it is.

Do you want her to stop? If no, then mind your own business. If yes and she will not stop, then report her to law enforcement/DA.  I'd recommend you have evidence first so tthey can act on that rather than just your word.

But is she doing anything illegal? Being a minor, even if she is doing sexually suggestive work, is she actually breaking the law?

I'm asking because I'm unsure - I'm not making a statement of fact.

Wouldn't only the photographers be breaking a law?

Aug 22 08 06:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brooklyn Bridge Images
Posts: 9,278
Brooklyn, New York, US


Jerry!!!! Jerry!!!! Jerry!!!!
Aug 22 08 06:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
StephenE
Posts: 2,629
Great Neck, New York, US


Kimberly Sun wrote:

Professionals have artist statements. And yes, I have an assistant who helps manage my modeling career.

do they have access to your portfolio and profile here?

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Aug 22 08 06:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21,320
Seattle, Washington, US


PeterSalama Photography wrote:

You are definitely wrong on this one... Posing nude is not illegal for her BUT it is for the photographer and is considered Child Pornography. Go read the federal law... This can result in a felony if the police and prosecutor decide to make an issue of it.

Please cite the federal law of which you speak.

That makes three so far, by my count.

Aug 22 08 06:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


michaelsdigitalimaging wrote:
Please contact the photographers. They can do up to 15 years for each picture taken even if they had copies of ID's and a signed contract!

*cough* bullshit *cough*

If they're just nudes, they're not illegal. The images would actually have to cross into the realm of being sexual or pornographic.

Aug 22 08 06:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PeterSalama Photography
Posts: 60
Los Angeles, California, US


Per the moderator here is the law.. You can read it for yourself:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2256.html
Aug 22 08 06:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Xeris - Dwight
Posts: 4,369
Austin, Texas, US


Stephen Fletcher wrote:
Local home town newspaper headline reads:

Xeris-Dwight Photos Underage Girl Nude

A week later on page 15 it mentions that what you did might or might not be illegal.

Is that risk enough for you?

I did NOT say that there were no risks involved. You clearly made that up out of thin air, thanks for spreading innunedo. All I said, and I will stand by it, is that simple nudity by a minor is not, in and of itself, illegal. If you want to attack THAT, knock yourself out, otherwise please quit making stuff up.

Aug 22 08 06:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Greg Kolack
Posts: 17,752
Downers Grove, Illinois, US


PeterSalama Photography wrote:

You are definitely wrong on this one... Posing nude is not illegal for her BUT it is for the photographer and is considered Child Pornography. Go read the federal law... This can result in a felony if the police and prosecutor decide to make an issue of it.

Please cite the law that states a minor posing nude is child pornography.

Aug 22 08 06:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kimberly Sun
Posts: 44
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Cogito Ergo Zoom wrote:

I call bullshit. Why say "the parents" instead of OUR parents. And what 17 yr old has affiliates?

Affiliates as in people who have worked on a team with her. IE MUA, Hair stylist etc.
FYI we have the same mom and different fathers.

Aug 22 08 06:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C h a r l e s D
Posts: 9,304
Los Angeles, California, US


Art nudes or porn nudes?  Art nudes, none of your business.  Porn, call the authorities.  Pretty damn simple.
Aug 22 08 06:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21,320
Seattle, Washington, US


PeterSalama Photography wrote:
Per the moderator here is the law.. You can read it for yourself:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2256.html

You fail.

Aug 22 08 06:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Greg Kolack
Posts: 17,752
Downers Grove, Illinois, US


PeterSalama Photography wrote:
Per the moderator here is the law.. You can read it for yourself:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2256.html

You just made yourself look like you can't read the law.

Everything in that statute uses the words "sexually explicit" - nothing in there says "nude."

Nude DOES NOT equal sexually explicit.

Aug 22 08 06:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Xeris - Dwight
Posts: 4,369
Austin, Texas, US


PeterSalama Photography wrote:

You are definitely wrong on this one... Posing nude is not illegal for her BUT it is for the photographer and is considered Child Pornography. Go read the federal law... This can result in a felony if the police and prosecutor decide to make an issue of it.

Please post a link to the relevant federal statute.

Aug 22 08 06:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Greg Kolack
Posts: 17,752
Downers Grove, Illinois, US


PeterSalama Photography wrote:
Per the moderator here is the law.. You can read it for yourself:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2256.html
Sophistocles wrote:
You fail.

Chris -

Where do these people come from???!!!???

Aug 22 08 06:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
StephenE
Posts: 2,629
Great Neck, New York, US


PeterSalama Photography wrote:
Per the moderator here is the law.. You can read it for yourself:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2256.html

and you have put that up to prove me right?  that is very kind of you.

Since the shots are nude and not once mentioned to be pornographic you just showed a law which supprts there legality.

Thank you.  Which law school have you attended and where are you registered with the bar?

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Aug 22 08 06:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Xeris - Dwight
Posts: 4,369
Austin, Texas, US


PeterSalama Photography wrote:
Per the moderator here is the law.. You can read it for yourself:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2256.html

That does not say that posing NUDE is pornography or illegal for the model or the photographer. Want to try again?

Aug 22 08 06:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Greg Kolack
Posts: 17,752
Downers Grove, Illinois, US


Xeris - Dwight wrote:

Please post a link to the relevant federal statute.

He did - and doesn't even understand what it is saying.

Aug 22 08 06:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


PeterSalama Photography wrote:
Per the moderator here is the law.. You can read it for yourself:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2256.html

Ok, and did you actually bother to read it yourself, no where in there does it say

Minor posed nude = illegal.

Aug 22 08 06:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21,320
Seattle, Washington, US


Greg Kolack wrote:
Where do these people come from???!!!???

Not Law School.

Aug 22 08 06:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
StephenE
Posts: 2,629
Great Neck, New York, US


Sophistocles wrote:

You fail.

that was a failure of epic proportion!

sad

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Aug 22 08 06:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J C KUNSTFOTOGRAFIE
Posts: 2,691
Los Angeles, California, US


glenn my name today wrote:
case for the FBI.

you might even be able to get a reward for turning in this dangerous criminal.

but i bet it will be mighty cool around the thanksgiving table in a few months.

Glenn - I'm very surprised at you (even if you are joking): you know as well as any pro photographer that it is NOT illegal for the OP's sister to pose nude, just that it IS illegal for her to pose for porn.

Aug 22 08 06:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


Greg Kolack wrote:
He did - and doesn't even understand what it is saying.

Here's the definition of what they consider sexually explicit.

(B) For purposes of subsection 8(B) [1] of this section, “sexually explicit conduct” means—
(i) graphic sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex, or lascivious simulated sexual intercourse where the genitals, breast, or pubic area of any person is exhibited;
(ii) graphic or lascivious simulated;
(I) bestiality;
(II) masturbation; or
(III) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or
(iii) graphic or simulated lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;

if the minor being shot nude didn't exhibit any of those conditions, then its not illegal.

Besides that's just the record keeping regulation.
Aug 22 08 06:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
StephenE
Posts: 2,629
Great Neck, New York, US


Sophistocles wrote:

Not Law School.

well the standards have been lowered  hmm

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Aug 22 08 06:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JT Hodges
Posts: 2,191
Austin, Texas, US


Soft Shadows Art Photo wrote:
A minor is defined by any person under the age of 18....In this country it is ILLEGAL to photograph a minor nude without consent from the minors parent or guardian in writing and can still be considered child pornography.
Brian Diaz wrote:
Can you please cite the law that states that?  Thanks.

Thank you Brian.

Aug 22 08 06:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Xeris - Dwight
Posts: 4,369
Austin, Texas, US


Greg Kolack wrote:

He did - and doesn't even understand what it is saying.

I think he did not read it or he is abjectly illiterate.

Aug 22 08 06:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Greg Kolack
Posts: 17,752
Downers Grove, Illinois, US


StephenE wrote:

that was a failure of epic proportion!

sad

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

It amazes me someone who make a claim like that, then post the law to back it up which actually proves them wrong!

WTF.

Seems like a brigging for stating balatantly wrong info in an industry thread is due.

Aug 22 08 06:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C h a r l e s D
Posts: 9,304
Los Angeles, California, US


PeterSalama Photography wrote:

You are definitely wrong on this one... Posing nude is not illegal for her BUT it is for the photographer and is considered Child Pornography. Go read the federal law... This can result in a felony if the police and prosecutor decide to make an issue of it.

Sorry, dude.   You've been mislead.

Aug 22 08 06:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Stephen Fletcher
Posts: 7,117
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Xeris - Dwight wrote:

I did NOT say that there were no risks involved. You clearly made that up out of thin air, thanks for spreading innunedo. All I said, and I will stand by it, is that simple nudity by a minor is not, in and of itself, illegal. If you want to attack THAT, knock yourself out, otherwise please quit making stuff up.

Read the post you were responding to.  The subject was the Photographer getting in trouble while not doing anything that was illegal.  If you think I was spreading innunendo about you, I was not.  I was just pointing out the danger a photographer might be in if a local newspaper or other media chose to make a big issue about it.

Aug 22 08 06:31 pm  Link  Quote 
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