Mary Madeline wrote:
What Mary said.

Assisting, and BEING LOYAL TO a senior artist ( or photographer), is the best thing one can possibly do for your career. Shush, watch, learn, help.
Once working pro's know you can be trusted, life can be very, very good.

That's all I have to say about that.

True again

Angela Horvath wrote:
I have looked in the search forum and have seen lots of "beating around the bush" answers. I know that your rate basically comes down to how much you think your worth, but I'm curious to get some actual figures on how much other artists charge for a half day and full day. If you don't want to disclose how much you charge you can always start the sentence with "I would think a rate would be...."

-thanks everyone-

I use makeup artists a few times a month and in the LA area if you look you can find a good makeup artist for about $50/hr.

http://www.joeduerr.com

TheMakeupman wrote:
I personally would love to see what rates are around the country / world

I wish I could get that! Going rate in my town is $35 and $60 for airbrush foundation. (upstate NY) These prices are from a higher end salon too.

TheMakeupman wrote:
OK heres my rates basicly and remember that all rates are somewhat negotiable ..... to a degree .........

Here's my question, when do you get to negotiate? Usually I give a quote and I either get the job or never hear back..or get the job and they cancel at the last minute (probably cause they found someone cheaper..urrggg) No room to negotiate am I missing a step to keep netgotiation open?

Keisha Singleton wrote:

Here's my question, when do you get to negotiate? Usually I give a quote and I either get the job or never hear back..or get the job and they cancel at the last minute (probably cause they found someone cheaper..urrggg) No room to negotiate am I missing a step to keep netgotiation open?

I'd like some tips on this too.  I find that I have better luck when I quote a rate to people right off the bat then when I ask what the budget is.  I feel like I get lowballed everytime when I go that route.  Do you give a higher price even when they say they want to max out at X rate per day, or go with what they say?

Image by Kristen wrote:
I'd like some tips on this too.  I find that I have better luck when I quote a rate to people right off the bat then when I ask what the budget is.  I feel like I get lowballed everytime when I go that route.  Do you give a higher price even when they say they want to max out at X rate per day, or go with what they say?

OK............ 
I BROKE my right hand (I'm left handed )and I'm on a vicodine so forgive me if It sound strange...

Great Question

There are a few factors that depends on negotiations

1) If I have worked for this client before , if they bring me alot of work , I may tend to lower my rate a little on lower budget things they are producing , and I trust the client is not screwing me .I have one producer I have worked for now for
8 years , I work for whatever rate she throws out to me. And will even do a spec spot if she wants.

2) If it's a new client , I throw out my ball park figure , like a commercial   any where from 750 to 1200 depending on what it is ( Alot of jobs go from "babysitting jobs" to special character makeups ) 
How long of a day , and how much talent do we have , do I need an asstant or get one. Do I have to deal with a celebrity, and if so   how are they to work with  ?
Or am I pretty much just sitting on my butt there becouse they have to have a makeup artist on set (baby sitting job I call it) or the clean up on aisle 5 job , easy pezy

3) If it's a photographer , how badly do I want to work with them , whats it for?
look books ????? how many outfits are we shooting , models , are we in a studio or on location , will I have a trailer or be working out of my car ? How often do they shoot?

( I have a pain in the butt fee as well LOL!)

If its a music video ( I try not to do them becouse the shoot for too many hours , I have been on 21 hour shoots ) but if I do , How many hours do they estimate , dancers , backround , overtime? Am I the Key or doing "everyone elese"

If it is a celebrity request ? who it is for , what is it for ? Red carpet ?
A list celebrity , B list ? C, D,
And again How bad do I want them as a client , are they great to work for or do they get the "Pain in the Butt fee"

These are for the jobs I negotiate , My agent I'm sure plays harder ball

I keep negotiations very friendly , and If they don't meet the "magic number" I Thank them profusly for thinking of me and ask if they would please consider me again when they have a better budget the next time around.

Mary or anyone else
please feel free to add to it , This vicoden is kicking my ass and Im out of it

TheMakeupman wrote:
2) If it's a new client , I throw out my ball park figure , like a commercial   any where from 750 to 1200 depending on what it is

Thanks Makeup man.. I hope you get some R&R for you hand..:-(

So my question is do you leave it vauge like this and say I charge between $750 to $1200 or do you say I charge $900?

Thank again this is VERY helpful..  also do you do hair?  and how much do you tack on when you have to do hair?

Keisha Singleton wrote:

Thanks Makeup man.. I hope you get some R&R for you hand..:-(

So my question is do you leave it vauge like this and say I charge between $750 to $1200 or do you say I charge $900?

Thank again this is VERY helpful..  also do you do hair?  and how much do you tack on when you have to do hair?

Yes I do hair as well

on alot of commercials , except on beauty campains, they seem to pretty much expect you to do both Makeup and Hair , I do not charge seperatly if I have to do both , I'm listed under Makeup/Hair with my agency so..... but you will book more work if you can do both , and it does validate your rate even more so becouse then they do not need to hire seperate hair.

I do not leave it vague , I ask alot of questions , once I have the information ...
I.E.how many actors , backround , special makeup ,is it both makeup and hair ,  how many days the job is , wigs .. ect.ect.  then I ask what their budget is  and I either counter offer if I think the rate is too low , explain why my rate should be bumped up if needed  or accept it , or again .....Thank them so much for thinking of me and ask when they have a bigger budget to please think of me again .

Especially in commercials ...... most will bump up your rate if it makes sense to them

Music videos .... good luck , they are notoriously cheap if you are not the star request

Editorials ... forgett it

look books .......probably , if they really want to put something amazing out , if they are getting the cheaper models and just want to shoot the collection   good luck

Keisha Singleton wrote:
Thanks Makeup man.. I hope you get some R&R for you hand..:-(

So my question is do you leave it vauge like this and say I charge between $750 to $1200 or do you say I charge $900?

Thank again this is VERY helpful..  also do you do hair?  and how much do you tack on when you have to do hair?

I think it makes more sense to say in the beginning of the conversation "whats in your budget for makeup"?  Get the answer to that and then....  "whats in your budget for hair?" 

lets say they come back and say $400.00 for makeup....  then you say..."what did you budget for hair?"  that puts them on the spot if you happen to do both...  WHAT A DEAL... I can save you 50.00 and do both for $750.00, if thats what you are willing to work for...if its $900.00 I would say...I can do hair and makeup for $900.00...


I don't usually play my hand until I know theirs and I usually know theirs before I start negotiating (I usually say, I will call you back I am on a job etc)  I then research, come up with a game plan and call back.. Its not hard to find out what a company is worth and what kind of crew they are used to hiring... 

You can look at their website, you can look at their past ads and know what kind of crew they had in the past... a budget crew will be obvious.. It's not worth a lot of  negotiating time if they have done nothing professionally in the past....  They may be turning a new leaf and going professional but it's just not all that likely, the odds are against you getting a decent rate... 

Then lets say they come back with...we have $400.00 for makeup and hair... then I would say... "that's fine, no problem, I can stay for 5 hours and leave you some powder for touch ups...   NEGOTIATE.... it's an art...you need to know how to do it or get an agent to do it for you...one or the other.

Angela Renee wrote:

I don't mean to detour either, but is it true Rach?  That fashion shows don't pay?  =/  my bubble's deflating...

I've been paid for fashions shows...don't let your bubble deflate

Rebecca Liceaga wrote:

I've been paid for fashions shows...don't let your bubble deflate

lol me too.. I would never work those mad houses for free... yikes.


I have made friends with modeling staffing agencies who staff national accounts/ spokemodels/ promo models etc... they are not a MUA agency - I am the only one non exclusive with two different companies so I get booked alot. (this is not normal I know ... I just talked to the right people) its worked for me since they pay more then a normal day rate.. I get between $800 -$1500 for a day rate for photo shoots (coke, valvoline, other car related companies) I work mostly in the import scene (lots of big fake tatas haha) I live in Philly and since I work with the companies who book the big accounts they fly me around so I can live anywhere. I live in a shit balls market (philly) no one pays for anything here. in fact I have had a reputable health mag contact me multiple times to do the cover of their mag TFP. Im like if NO wasnt good enough for you the first time.... jesus. anyway ... It depends how you market yourself... im unconventional but it pays my bills and i get to travel and meet cool people ... like lucy.. and maybe anthony one of these days haha.

~Melody

MelodyMoher wrote:

lol me too.. I would never work those mad houses for free... yikes.


I have made friends with modeling staffing agencies who staff national accounts/ spokemodels/ promo models etc... they are not a MUA agency - I am the only one non exclusive with two different companies so I get booked alot. (this is not normal I know ... I just talked to the right people) its worked for me since they pay more then a normal day rate.. I get between $800 -$1500 for a day rate for photo shoots (coke, valvoline, other car related companies) I work mostly in the import scene (lots of big fake tatas haha) I live in Philly and since I work with the companies who book the big accounts they fly me around so I can live anywhere. I live in a shit balls market (philly) no one pays for anything here. in fact I have had a reputable health mag contact me multiple times to do the cover of their mag TFP. Im like if NO wasnt good enough for you the first time.... jesus. anyway ... It depends how you market yourself... im unconventional but it pays my bills and i get to travel and meet cool people ... like lucy.. and maybe anthony one of these days haha.

~Melody

LOL
Melody  I have no doubt we will meet , but can we NOT do it at Hooters LOL!!!!

Mary wrote:
I think it makes more sense to say in the beginning of the conversation "whats in your budget for makeup"?  Get the answer to that and then....  "whats in your budget for hair?" 

lets say they come back and say $400.00 for makeup....  then you say..."what did you budget for hair?"  that puts them on the spot if you happen to do both...  WHAT A DEAL... I can save you 50.00 and do both for $750.00, if thats what you are willing to work for...if its $900.00 I would say...I can do hair and makeup for $900.00...

Whats in your budget for makeup ....then whats in your budget for hair .......
That is very clever Mary LOL !
I can totally see this working out in alot of situations

Mary wrote:

I think it makes more sense to say in the beginning of the conversation "whats in your budget for makeup"?  Get the answer to that and then....  "whats in your budget for hair?" 

lets say they come back and say $400.00 for makeup....  then you say..."what did you budget for hair?"  that puts them on the spot if you happen to do both...  WHAT A DEAL... I can save you 50.00 and do both for $750.00, if thats what you are willing to work for...if its $900.00 I would say...I can do hair and makeup for $900.00...


I don't usually play my hand until I know theirs and I usually know theirs before I start negotiating (I usually say, I will call you back I am on a job etc)  I then research, come up with a game plan and call back.. Its not hard to find out what a company is worth and what kind of crew they are used to hiring... 

You can look at their website, you can look at their past ads and know what kind of crew they had in the past... a budget crew will be obvious.. It's not worth a lot of  negotiating time if they have done nothing professionally in the past....  They may be turning a new leaf and going professional but it's just not all that likely, the odds are against you getting a decent rate... 

Then lets say they come back with...we have $400.00 for makeup and hair... then I would say... "that's fine, no problem, I can stay for 5 hours and leave you some powder for touch ups...   NEGOTIATE.... it's an art...you need to know how to do it or get an agent to do it for you...one or the other.

This is genius Mary...I have been having the same issue as others, where I quote my rates and then never hear back from the client, leaving out any way to negotiate. This is my strategy from now on. Thank you!

Rachel Lisa wrote:
By the way, I don't think anyone has posted their rates for bridal...I know a lot of MUAs hate doing it, but I actually love it...Anyway, here are my rates for that:
Trial Run $100
Day of makeup $200
Bridesmaids $75 each

And I usually give the bride a discount rate of $150 if she does indeed get the whole bridal party to book with me

I'm wondering if anyone charges more for airbrush makeup? It seems like they want it, so they would pay more for it, but in fact it makes my job easier, so I feel a little guilty about doing it...LOL.

thank Mary and Makeup Man.. I got it now and have been doing things ALL WRONG..lol  oh well, this is how we grow

Mary you are dead on about asking for budgets seperately and doing the research.. I wonder in this area (or maybe I should say the clients that have contacted me) don't wanna pay anything.. They will nickle and dime you to death.. but like Makeup Man said than they just don't value the art or worth the time

Rachel you get $100 for trials?? Geeze I can barely get $50 for a trial.  The brides want the trial but when I tell them it's $50 I don't hear back..

I need to up my make up rates but mine are $150 for brides and $65 for each bride maid.. I like your idea about giving a discount if the whole party books with you but sometimes the party is small do you have a certain number of faces your want to do before giving such a huge discount?

EDIT: Ok obviously I don't know my own rate..lol I just checked my site and I did go up on my rates.. It's 200 for brides

Rachel Lisa wrote:
Oh, here's another email I just got from a designer
"Hi Rachel! I am having a TF shoot on Tuesday for my spring catalog! I would really love it if you would join us! I LOVE your work! Let me know!"
Signed,
blah blah

OK, really TF on something you're using commercially? Excuse me, sweetie, but you're not Alexander McQueen, where the credit and pictures would be worth me considering it. Pay me.

Fail.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around someone wanting others to work free for a catalog or commercial gig of any kind...   Why would anyone do that free?

in order to get anything good for your book the models would have to be good agency models and if the client is paying good agency models they would be paying the makeup artist...  and who is doing the photography?  GWC I assume since the crew isnt being paid...and GWC shots arent what artists need .. so you have GWC and internet models doing a catalog for free...those are going to be some great shots   Sarcasm

Mary wrote:

I have a hard time wrapping my head around someone wanting others to work free for a catalog or commercial gig of any kind...   Why would anyone do that free?

in order to get anything good for your book the models would have to be good agency models and if the client is paying good agency models they would be paying the makeup artist...  and who is doing the photography?  GWC I assume since the crew isnt being paid...and GWC shots arent what artists need .. so you have GWC and internet models doing a catalog for free...those are going to be some great shots   Sarcasm

hmmm what do you think about doing a movie for free? low budget film but you get credits??

Rachel Lisa wrote:
Oh, here's another email I just got from a designer
"Hi Rachel! I am having a TF shoot on Tuesday for my spring catalog! I would really love it if you would join us! I LOVE your work! Let me know!"
Signed,
blah blah

OK, really TF on something you're using commercially? Excuse me, sweetie, but you're not Alexander McQueen, where the credit and pictures would be worth me considering it. Pay me.

Fail.

I know!  I think the most I've ever been offered to work on a lookbook is $100.  Needless to say, I haven't worked on any lookbooks.  I always politely decline these TF for advertising shoots but I really want to give it to them both barrels.  If you're making money, I should be too.

TheMakeupman wrote:

LOL
Melody  I have no doubt we will meet , but can we NOT do it at Hooters LOL!!!!

lol yea yea...although u missed some crazy shit that went down in the Hooters..

Keisha Singleton wrote:
hmmm what do you think about doing a movie for free? low budget film but you get credits??

I did one movie for free to get the ball rolling. I wouldn't do any more than one for no pay. Also, if you're going to go this route, try to pick a short film so your time commitment is smaller.  I did several others for low pay.  It helped me build my resume, get experience, and learn settitique.  It was also a good way to other crew members in the area and eventually, other makeup artists.

Keisha Singleton wrote:

hmmm what do you think about doing a movie for free? low budget film but you get credits??

low budget films should still have budgets for hair and mu.. I did a film for a freakin student and got paid - not my normal rate but I worked with up and coming stars in LA and got IMDB credit. DO NOT over extend yourself for the "experience" its such crap.... that "low budget" that cant even pay a mua might not even be edited...then what? you get dick.

Mary wrote:
NEGOTIATE.... it's an art...you need to know how to do it or get an agent to do it for you...one or the other.

This is how a good artist ends up charging budget rates. 

Not every talented makeup artist is also this business savvy.  I know I'm not... I'm continually learning the business part of freelancing -- often the hard way.  I know I'm worth more than I am currently charging, it's just that my negotiation and business skills are not on par with my makeup skills.

Keisha Singleton wrote:
hmmm what do you think about doing a movie for free? low budget film but you get credits??

Only if it's a short film, no one else is getting paid, you are allowed to leave after 12 hours, and you've never EVER been on a film set before. 

Not only have I worked on TONS of low budget, student and short films... I've BEEN a film student making a film.  The goal is to get the thing in the can with no loss of life or limb.  Melody is right... if you actually get the thing edited into a film you're lucky.  Don't think anyone but the director's parents are going to actually SEE your name in the end credits.

Mary wrote:

I have a hard time wrapping my head around someone wanting others to work free for a catalog or commercial gig of any kind...   Why would anyone do that free?

in order to get anything good for your book the models would have to be good agency models and if the client is paying good agency models they would be paying the makeup artist...  and who is doing the photography?  GWC I assume since the crew isnt being paid...and GWC shots arent what artists need .. so you have GWC and internet models doing a catalog for free...those are going to be some great shots   Sarcasm

One of your favorite photographers on here is doing exactly that.   And it drives me nuts.  But after a few "tests" the artists catch on, and move on.

Raising my rates to industry standard, was the best thing I had done for my career. 

Who wants to pay more for something they paid less for last time?  If you charge $200 the first time, in what way are you going to justify to the same client why you are now charging $700?  It just won't work.

And people respect you for it.  I had a production company ask me to do a job for $300.  I said that my rate was $700.  They didn't hire me for the low budget client.  But recently they hired me for 2 jobs at my rate for higher budget clients.

Mary wrote:

I have a hard time wrapping my head around someone wanting others to work free for a catalog or commercial gig of any kind...   Why would anyone do that free?

in order to get anything good for your book the models would have to be good agency models and if the client is paying good agency models they would be paying the makeup artist...  and who is doing the photography?  GWC I assume since the crew isnt being paid...and GWC shots arent what artists need .. so you have GWC and internet models doing a catalog for free...those are going to be some great shots   Sarcasm

Yes...which is why I just responded with my full day rate. Which of course I will not get. But just did it to prove a point

Keisha Singleton wrote:

Rachel Lisa wrote:
By the way, I don't think anyone has posted their rates for bridal...I know a lot of MUAs hate doing it, but I actually love it...Anyway, here are my rates for that:
Trial Run $100
Day of makeup $200
Bridesmaids $75 each

And I usually give the bride a discount rate of $150 if she does indeed get the whole bridal party to book with me

I'm wondering if anyone charges more for airbrush makeup? It seems like they want it, so they would pay more for it, but in fact it makes my job easier, so I feel a little guilty about doing it...LOL.

thank Mary and Makeup Man.. I got it now and have been doing things ALL WRONG..lol  oh well, this is how we grow



I need to up my make up rates but mine are $150 for brides and $65 for each bride maid.. I like your idea about giving a discount if the whole party books with you but sometimes the party is small do you have a certain number of faces your want to do before giving such a huge discount?


Absolutely...they have to book at least 4 other bridesmaids before I give them a discount

Cynthia ORourke wrote:

Only if it's a short film, no one else is getting paid, you are allowed to leave after 12 hours, and you've never EVER been on a film set before. 

Not only have I worked on TONS of low budget, student and short films... I've BEEN a film student making a film.  The goal is to get the thing in the can with no loss of life or limb.  Melody is right... if you actually get the thing edited into a film you're lucky.  Don't think anyone but the director's parents are going to actually SEE your name in the end credits.

lol right... and dont even get excited for that..i just got a cut back of the short I did recently and i cant even see my name its so smooshed together... but then i havent splurged for a 4814710874"screen like the rest of america (my football watching hubby is not happy with that but bills come first dammit! haha)

and I will reword my post before by saying - if you truely have no experience with on set film or shorts...then doing a short for free is a fun experience but its also crazy different - try assisting on a film or short... these people trying  to get newbies for free are only wasting everyones time... and you could get paid to assist without all the stress of signing up for something you know nothing about.. the people hiring someone with no experience so they can get a free MUA says to me that that film is goin NOWHERE.

just my .2 cents.

MelodyMoher wrote:

lol right... and dont even get excited for that..i just got a cut back of the short I did recently and i cant even see my name its so smooshed together... but then i havent splurged for a 4814710874"screen like the rest of america (my football watching hubby is not happy with that but bills come first dammit! haha)

and I will reword my post before by saying - if you truely have no experience with on set film or shorts...then doing a short for free is a fun experience but its also crazy different - try assisting on a film or short... these people trying  to get newbies for free are only wasting everyones time... and you could get paid to assist without all the stress of signing up for something you know nothing about.. the people hiring someone with no experience so they can get a free MUA says to me that that film is goin NOWHERE.

just my .2 cents.

True... but I wouldn't hire/trust an assistant on an important paid gig who didn't have any set experience.  Their demeanor on set reflects back on me as the key.  Working for free on a low budget film set is really just to see if you even like the atmosphere of film work.  Dip your toe in the water.  I wouldn't do it more than once or twice... and then purely for the personal experience of trying it on for size, not as a resume builder.

HARD CANDY IMAGES wrote:
I was just going to read & not post -
but now i have to say something...



But - the photographer "star" who did 1,000 outfits for $600 dollars is WAY to low.
Thats what you call lowering your rates to damn low.
That is less than $1 per outfit.
For that much money the job should have been turned down - or - the budget should have been raised.
The time it takes to shoot 1,000 outfits is worth more than $600 dollars alone not to meation gas, wear on equiptment & dealing with the images.

Where did you see this? And are you outing someone on a thread?

HARD CANDY IMAGES wrote:
I was just going to read & not post -
but now i have to say something...

It's extremely hard to start off in any industry where you may not have any clients or may not have connections.

And the economy is bad I agree.
Because of this many times I find myself dealing with individuals on the budget they have to work with while still staying fair to myself.

But - the photographer "star" who did 1,000 outfits for $600 dollars is WAY to low.
Thats what you call lowering your rates to damn low.
That is less than $1 per outfit.
For that much money the job should have been turned down - or - the budget should have been raised.
The time it takes to shoot 1,000 outfits is worth more than $600 dollars alone not to meation gas, wear on equiptment & dealing with the images.

no it was 100 outfits, 4 shots of each for $500. It would have been about 2-3 hours of shooting the catalog, and then 2 hours of shooting editorial pieces to bookend it.

And i was turned down at that bid for bidding too HIGH

Melissa Rachelle wrote:

One of your favorite photographers on here is doing exactly that.   And it drives me nuts.  But after a few "tests" the artists catch on, and move on.

Raising my rates to industry standard, was the best thing I had done for my career. 

Who wants to pay more for something they paid less for last time?  If you charge $200 the first time, in what way are you going to justify to the same client why you are now charging $700?  It just won't work.

And people respect you for it.  I had a production company ask me to do a job for $300.  I said that my rate was $700.  They didn't hire me for the low budget client.  But recently they hired me for 2 jobs at my rate for higher budget clients.

"one of my favorite photographers"???    well, I have no idea who you are referring to because whoever it is hasn't asked me to do anything free.... I imagine whoever it is just calls me on good paying jobs        I assume whoever it is knows there are newbies that will do this... and he knows I'm sure I'm not one of them.  I think most photographers know better than to even ask me to do a free commercial job of any kind...

Star wrote:
no it was 100 outfits, 4 shots of each for $500. It would have been about 2-3 hours of shooting the catalog, and then 2 hours of shooting editorial pieces to bookend it.

You can shoot 100 outfits in 2-3 hours?!  I can't belive that would even be possible even if the models hair was slicked back in a tight bun with zero touch ups.
wow...

And i was turned down at that bid for bidding too HIGH

Good. That's an insane amount of work for way to little money. 

It's hard but stick it out.. the better jobs are right around the corner.

Diana wrote:
You can shoot 100 outfits in 2-3 hours?!  I can't belive that would even be possible even if the models hair was slicked back in a tight bun with zero touch ups.
wow...

Good. That's an insane amount of work for way to little money. 

It's hard but stick it out.. the better jobs are right around the corner.

Diana wrote:
Someone posted a version of this awhile ago:

Good, Fast, Cheap - Pick two, sacrifice the third.

I will always be good and fast, but I can guarantee you I'll never be cheap.

Diana wrote:

Star wrote:
no it was 100 outfits, 4 shots of each for $500. It would have been about 2-3 hours of shooting the catalog, and then 2 hours of shooting editorial pieces to bookend it.

You can shoot 100 outfits in 2-3 hours?!  I can't belive that would even be possible even if the models hair was slicked back in a tight bun with zero touch ups.
wow...

Good. That's an insane amount of work for way to little money. 

It's hard but stick it out.. the better jobs are right around the corner.

2 models, set lighting. Each outfit takes about 2 minutes, or about 30 outfits per hour