Miss Anna Evans wrote:
His portfolio currently doesn't warrant TFwhatever, in my opinion.

From you, no... you're working at a much higher level than he is and he couldn't help your portfolio.   Neither could I... or 90% of the photographers here, for that matter.  You have a portfolio full of work from some incredibly talented people, and can charge top rates and keep your schedule full.   That's awesome... for you.    Not every model is in the same position you are.   

A beginning photographer and a beginning model can help each other get started.    I've worked with several models over the last year who trusted me to do their first nude photos... which laid the groundwork for both of us to improve our portfolios and line up shoots with more experienced people.   I didn't start even thinking about paying models until recently, when I got to the point where I considered my skills to be at the level where it would be a worthwhile investment.   Everything I did up until a few months ago was done as trade, and the majority of it still is.

Stella K wrote:
Standard rates for nude work (I have no clue about topless) seem to be anywhere from $50-$150/hour. ...

That may be standard somewhere, but it's not reprsentative of what photographers on MM typically pay models.  I'll again point out:

https://wwww.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=358238

Miss Anna Evans wrote:
I just charge enough to pay my bills, and I send the same rates to everyone. I'm fair like that.

You can, and should, charge all the market will bear.  Your time is a finite resource: if the demand for it exceeds the supply, you might not be charging enough; if supply exceeds demand, you might be charging too much.

That said, some of us don't have money to blow on frivolities.  If I pay a model, it's because I expect to be able to recoup that investment one way or another -- either by selling the photos, using them to attract paid work, or avoiding a cost I'd have to pay elsewhere.    Case in point: I recently hired a model to do some supporting graphics for a client's website... it was cheaper (in both time and money) for me to hire a model for an hour and shoot exactly what I needed myself than it would have been for me to hunt down and buy some pictures that might have worked on a microstock site.

Bodyshots Photography wrote:

That may be standard somewhere, but it's not reprsentative of what photographers on MM typically pay models.  I'll again point out:

https://wwww.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=358238

1) The thread is about art nudes.
2) Most photographers who answered do NOT make money from their photography.

Believe me, if MM models relied on doing strictly art nudes and/or photographers who don't make money from it... they'd be pretty poor.

I honestly don't know any nude models who do nudes for less than $50/hour... obviously I'm not talking about trades and posing for art classes, etc.

Model Sarah wrote:
I'd suggest to hire a professional who knows what they are doing. It can ease the process and the photographer could learn something from the model. Sometime's i'm hired for sheer motivation to shoot something creative.

They are always negotiable and have to make economical sense for me. It's not that difficult. You get what you pay for.

Thank you...very well said.  You do get what you pay for.

My shots wrote:
I just put a thread asking if models fees were set in stone. I'm  interested in doing some topless and nudes photos, in good taste. What would most models charge to do these photos? I would like to see the dollar amount. I'm new at this and want to know.

Can you really set those in stone? If you owned a boutique would you charge the same price for a one of a kind, handmade, vintage bag as you would for a mediocre quality, mass-produced duffel?

PHT wrote:
Let's give the guy a simple answer:

If you offer $25 per hour, you will get some responses.

If you offer $50 per hour, you will get a lot of responses.

If you offer $75 per hour, almost every MM model will respond.

If you offer $100 per hour, ...

Actually, I dont think you would even get 'some' responses till the $75 mark. You and I both know that most models here thinks they deserve more than they are worth

The Main Man wrote:

Actually, I dont think you would even get 'some' responses till the $75 mark. You and I both know that most models here thinks they deserve more than they are worth

Ha ha.

PHT wrote:
Let's give the guy a simple answer:

If you offer $25 per hour, you will get some responses.

If you offer $50 per hour, you will get a lot of responses.

If you offer $75 per hour, almost every MM model will respond.

If you offer $100 per hour, ...

That's just really bad negotiation.

PHT wrote:
Let's give the guy a simple answer:

If you offer $25 per hour, you will get some responses.

If you offer $50 per hour, you will get a lot of responses.

If you offer $75 per hour, almost every MM model will respond.

If you offer $100 per hour, ...

how many models have you negotiated with?

because most professional art models do it as, guess what, their profession.  As they don't work 8 hour days 5 days a week you're going to be looking at an average of around $100 an hour so they can keep living...

Model Sarah wrote:

That's just really bad negotiation.

Hmmmm.....

ColinR wrote:

how many models have you negotiated with?

because most professional art models do it as, guess what, their profession.  As they don't work 8 hour days 5 days a week you're going to be looking at an average of around $100 an hour so they can keep living...

Hmmmm.....

Stella K wrote:
http://wwww.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=358238
1) The thread is about art nudes.
2) Most photographers who answered do NOT make money from their photography.

Yes, it is about art nudes and what photographers have reported they actually paid models.    I agree most of the photographers do not make money (or much money) from their  art nude photography.  It is a difficult genre to make money at.

Stella K wrote:
Believe me, if MM models relied on doing strictly art nudes and/or photographers who don't make money from it... they'd be pretty poor.

I agree - I never claimed it was easy to make money modeling for art nudes here on MM.   In fact, I think the the thread I referenced indicates much of the work is for trade, not pay.

Stella K wrote:
I honestly don't know any nude models who do nudes for less than $50/hour... obviously I'm not talking about trades and posing for art classes, etc.

That may be.   Most of the models I've worked with, worked for trade.  All worked for under the sum you mentioned.   I posted the thread as a more accurate representation as to what photographers here are actually paying than either your or my personal experience provide.

J C ModeFotografie wrote:
Whatever you can negotiate.

Best answer.

Miss Anna Evans wrote:
I love how many photographers are advocating not paying models. Really.

Whats wrong with that?   Many models simply refuse to pay photographers...
Turn about????

The Main Man wrote:

Hmmmm.....

what note?

Lucas Chapman wrote:
Whats wrong with that?   Many models simply refuse to pay photographers...
Turn about????

One day a photographer will understand that the person who is being photographed is doing the photographer a favor as the photographer is getting to take what they're looking for from that and the model is volunteering time and allowing them...

At a base level the photographer walks away with prints and rights.
The model walks away with...a loss of time.

from there, based on the quality of work the paying, compensation etc. comes in...for models and photographers.

but remember at the base, that's what every shoot negotiation starts at.

Bodyshots Photography wrote:
That may be.   Most of the models I've worked with, worked for trade.  All worked for under the sum you mentioned.   I posted the thread as a more accurate representation as to what photographers here are actually paying than either your or my personal experience provide.

The OP did not specify art nudes.

Trade was not even mentioned in the OP. I'm sure he already knows he can with some models but he would have to hire some others and would like to know what the going rate is. Maybe the OP doesn't want the pressure of having to "deliver" which is part of the equation when doing a trade. None of our business, he asked a question about rates. Plain and simple.

And since the question was about rates, if there are models whose nude rates are under $50/hour, I'd LOVE to see them post here. I'm sure many photographers would appreciate it too. Seriously.

ColinR wrote:

how many models have you negotiated with?

because most professional art models do it as, guess what, their profession.  As they don't work 8 hour days 5 days a week you're going to be looking at an average of around $100 an hour so they can keep living...

If that is a generic question:
I have successfully negotiated nude photo shoots with over 25 models, here on MM alone. More than 50 including other sources. I have yet to pay more than $75/hr for any of them, and that was for a total of 3 MM models out of 25+. Most were in the $40 - $50 per hour range (and several less than that) and they all seemed to be more than happy with their compensation.

How many models here have you negotiated with since you seem to be so well informed?

ColinR wrote:
It's funny how there are more photographers posting in this than models, I'm sure if he was looking for photographers viewpoints he'd most likely post in the photographers forum.

I tend to think photographers have an idea what models are quoting them for nudes.  And right out of the chute you have Ken and Ward offering their experience, which ain't exactly chopped liver...

Xeris - Dwight wrote:
If that is a generic question:

it's not, it was asked to the person I quoted.

Xeris - Dwight wrote:
How many models here have you negotiated with since you seem to be so well informed?

I am a model...

Patchouli Nyx wrote:
I tend to think photographers have an idea what models are quoting them for nudes.  And right out of the chute you have Ken and Ward offering their experience, which ain't exactly chopped liver...

you may tend to think that but as he posted in the model forum asking about rates you may want to reconsider your tendencies.

Also, people may be surprised if they expect to get the same response people like ward does when they try and negotiate those rates.

Patchouli Nyx wrote:
And right out of the chute you have Ken and Ward offering their experience, which ain't exactly chopped liver...

Because they can provide images that are worth more than most models' rates. Let's not pretend everyone on MM can shoot like they do, right? I'm sure we'd laugh at an average model complaining about a fantastic photographer who did trade with Betcee May but wouldn't do it with her too.

Patchouli Nyx wrote:
I tend to think photographers have an idea what models are quoting them for nudes.  And right out of the chute you have Ken and Ward offering their experience, which ain't exactly chopped liver...

ColinR wrote:
you may tend to think that but as he posted in the model forum asking about rates you may want to reconsider your tendencies.

My understanding might be wrong but I think that the model forum is still currently open to photographers as well as makeup artists in being able to respond to threads.

And I still think that a photographer who is terribly active, such as Ken Marcus or Ward, might actually be able to offer their experiences in dealing with models and nudity and rates, etc.

ColinR wrote:

Xeris - Dwight wrote:
If that is a generic question:

it's not, it was asked to the person I quoted.

So it's relevance can be said to be not very relevant if you are going by a sample size of one.


I am a model...

Duh. I can see the M O D E L under your name. The point, obviously, is that if you haven't tried negotiating with them your experience is seriously in question as was pointedly clear from my response.

Stella K wrote:
And since the question was about rates, if there are models whose nude rates are under $50/hour, I'd LOVE to see them post here. I'm sure many photographers would appreciate it too. Seriously.

I've accepted less than $50/hour a couple of times over the years, but only when the photographer was really amazing and images were part of the deal. Or for drawing/painting work.

ColinR wrote:

how many models have you negotiated with?

because most professional art models do it as, guess what, their profession.  As they don't work 8 hour days 5 days a week you're going to be looking at an average of around $100 an hour so they can keep living...

Please don't be silly. I know Sarah asks for and probably does get paid at the top of that list. You might notice that I didn't say all would respond at $75.

I don't negotiate. I offer what I'm willing to pay for the job. Different jobs pay different rates. I really don't care if some models would be willing to do it for less.

I have hired about 30 models in the last year. That chart is consistent with what I pay. Maybe since I'm so, so famous and so, so awesome, I pay less than others. Or maybe because Sarah is so, so famous and so, so awesome, she gets paid more than others.

The real skill in negotiation is to be able to figure out what the other party wants and then offer 10-20% less. Almost nobody quibbles about 10-20%. So if you come in on the low side of what is acceptable, almost everyone takes it. No back and forth required.

Xeris - Dwight wrote:

Duh. I can see the M O D E L under your name. The point, obviously, is that if you haven't tried negotiating with them your experience is seriously in question as was pointedly clear from my response.

I think you've missed the point. Negotiation is key. He wasnt arguing against that he was merely stating a common fact.

PHT wrote:
Please don't be silly. I know Sarah asks for and probably does get paid at the top of that list. You might notice that I didn't say all would respond at $75.

I don't negotiate. I offer what I'm willing to pay for the job. Different jobs pay different rates. I really don't care if some models would be willing to do it for less.

I have hired about 30 models in the last year. That chart is consistent with what I pay. Maybe since I'm so, so famous and so, so awesome, I pay less than others. Or maybe because Sarah is so, so famous and so, so awesome, she gets paid more than others.

The real skill in negotiation is to be able to figure out what the other party wants and then offer 10-20% less. Almost nobody quibbles about 10-20%. So if you come in on the low side of what is acceptable, almost everyone takes it. No back and forth required.

Yikes.

Please dont put me into some sort of elite group. I am not. I negotiate and i'd appreciate it if you read my posts saying I do so before putting me on a sarcastic "higher ground" of models who happen to have good work as if I am better than anyone else.

This is absurd at best.

Stella K wrote:

Because they can provide images that are worth more than most models' rates. Let's not pretend everyone on MM can shoot like they do, right? I'm sure we'd laugh at an average model complaining about a fantastic photographer who did trade with Betcee May but wouldn't do it with her too.

I'm leaving the value judgement up to the parties negotiating.

What is valuable to one model might be completely different than to another one, the same is true with photographers.

Nevertheless, I've been quoted a wide range of amounts to work with models, I so far have only worked tfp.   But I've had people tell me from $25 to $250 an hour and quite frankly the ones in the $25-$40 range were "worth" more than the ones with sugar plum fairies and crack/meth delusions of $250/hour grandeur.  but who knows, there might be a photographer out there who model x at $250 really fits his needs.

Model Sarah wrote:
I think you've missed the point. Negotiation is key. He wasnt arguing against that he was merely stating a common fact.

What he seemed to be saying was that it is a common fact that art models typically get paid a lot more than is my experience or the experience of a lot of other nude photographers.

And I was pointing out, that as someone that has actually done those negotiations, my experience is different than his "assumptions".

theda wrote:

I've accepted less than $50/hour a couple of times over the years, but only when the photographer was really amazing and images were part of the deal. Or for drawing/painting work.

Of course I've done that too. I've done it for students w/ no income as well. But I want to see a model whose normal rates are under $50/hour.

Xeris - Dwight wrote:

What he seemed to be saying was that it is a common fact that art models typically get paid a lot more than is my experience or the experience of a lot of other nude photographers.

That, is not what he said at all.

Model Sarah wrote:
That, is not what he said at all.

"average of around $100 an hour"

My experience in negotiations and his apparent lack of the same result in a VERY different conclusion.

Patchouli Nyx wrote:
Nevertheless, I've been quoted a wide range of amounts to work with models, I so far have only worked tfp.   But I've had people tell me from $25 to $250 an hour and quite frankly the ones in the $25-$40 range were "worth" more than the ones with sugar plum fairies and crack/meth delusions of $250/hour grandeur.  but who knows, there might be a photographer out there who model x at $250 really fits his needs.

Let's stick to reality. Top nude models on MM charge $150/hour. I've never seen a freelance nude model here who actually makes good money doing it charge $250/hour, adult content not included. We're not really talking about webcam models who want $100/hour for "fashion" are we?

Oh, and you're welcome to share the models who charge $25-40/hour regularly as well