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Model
Katya-
Posts: 228
Oshawa, Ontario, Canada


I was recently asked to attend an interview with Sutherland models.
The interview went all well, they seemed interested, but I was told that I must take a modeling course.
Apparently all models in Sutherland are required to take the course so that they gain experience, since a clueless model would lower the reputation of Sutherland.
Apparently, after the course is completed, I would be sent to do modelwork in the commercial and catalogues division.

I'm very suspicious of this because the course requires me to pay 800$.
From what I am aware of, an agency would pay for everything if they really wanted you.
It's just that they showed me many of the graduates from the school who now have successfully done many tear sheets.
Of course, there is no way telling if they had to pay or not.

So I was wondering if anyone could give me their opinions. Or if anyone has actually looked further into Sutherland. Thank you!

The course does not only cover poses, this is what it says it offers:

Fashion show choreography
Runway modelling
Build your portfolio
photography
Day to evening makeup
Editorial and Catalouge modelling
Fashion Knowledge and trends
Auditions and Go-sees
Model Tote Bag
Movement for the camera
Prepare for your first photoshoot
Professional photoshoot
Mkaeup for Black and white phtography
Runway TUrns and techniques
self Defence for women
Nutrition and fitness
The world of tv commercials
wholesale Modelling
Runway.'
Feb 03 09 07:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,612
Phoenix, Arizona, US


eModels is back.
Feb 03 09 07:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Iona Lynn
Posts: 11,176
Oakland, California, US


This is a scam
Feb 03 09 07:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Katya-
Posts: 228
Oshawa, Ontario, Canada


Iona Lynn wrote:
This is a scam

Probably, I know Sutherland is the most reputable agency in Toronto, but this is far fetched.

Feb 03 09 07:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Steve Alkok
Posts: 399
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


Sutherland is one of the best agencies in the city and this course does seem to be worth it. I've shot many girls from Sutherland and none have ever complained about that course (unlike Orange "model management" and the like). At the end they have a little fashion show for the friends and family of the models.

If you want to speak with some girls form Sutherlands main board send me a message and I'll try and get you in touch with a few of them.
Feb 03 09 07:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,612
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Katya Lavishe wrote:
Probably, I know Sutherland is the most reputable agency in Toronto, but this is far fetched.

I don't know much about these things, but based on what I've read it sounds like your typical portfolio mill. Anyone with the $800 (and that's just the tip of the iceberg) can be a model. Disclaimer: This is only based on what I've read about other similar schemes.

Feb 03 09 07:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ward
Posts: 6,126
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


It's not a scam. Sutherland has a Model Works program, which is like a 'course' for newer, younger, less-experienced models. I guess there are two schools of thought on this: Pay your money and get nothing out of it, or don't pay your money and look at other agencies who may be interested in you.

I am in no way supporting, or not supporting, Sutherland's program, though I have photographed several models from their agency and deal with their bookers directly.

Like Steve said, (above), if you want to speak to some models with Sutherland directly, that can be arranged.

Food for thought:
http://www.thestar.com/living/article/462481
Feb 03 09 07:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Steve Alkok
Posts: 399
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


If an agency really wants you and thinks that you will make them a lot of money fast they waive the fees, but most models in Toronto still pay for their tests, comp cards and these courses for inexperienced models. I know Elmer has the same type of course and I'd guess Ford, Giovanni and Elite do as well
Feb 03 09 07:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,612
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Steve Alkok wrote:
Sutherland is one of the best agencies in the city and this course does seem to be worth it. I've shot many girls from Sutherland and none have ever complained about that course (unlike Orange "model management" and the like). At the end they have a little fashion show for the friends and family of the models.

If you want to speak with some girls form Sutherlands main board send me a message and I'll try and get you in touch with a few of them.
ward wrote:
It's not a scam. Sutherland has a Model Works program, which is like a 'course' for newer, younger, less-experienced models. I guess there are two schools of thought on this: Pay your money and get nothing out of it, or don't pay your money and look at other agencies who may be interested in you.

I am in no way supporting, or not supporting, Sutherland's program, though I have photographed several models from their agency and deal with their bookers directly.

Like Steve said, (above), if you want to speak to some models with Sutherland directly, that can be arranged.

I stand corrected.

Feb 03 09 07:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ward
Posts: 6,126
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Steve Alkok wrote:
If an agency really wants you and thinks that you will make them a lot of money fast they waive the fees, but most models in Toronto still pay for their tests, comp cards and these courses for inexperienced models. I know Elmer has the same type of course and I'd guess Ford, Giovanni and Elite do as well

Yeah, i just sent a new models' shots to Elmer and Ryan today. They have a similar course.

Feb 03 09 07:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Katya-
Posts: 228
Oshawa, Ontario, Canada


Thank you so much everyone!!
Yeah she did lower the price by one hundred since I started to worry about the price. I suppose that's a good sign.
Feb 03 09 07:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
James Barry Photography
Posts: 17
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


If Sutherland really wanted you, your name would have been on a contract by now.
I'm not saying this is a scam in your case, just one of the ways modeling agencies make their money.
Feb 03 09 08:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Feral Oneiric
Posts: 5,949
Portland, Oregon, US


Sounds like a Casablanca type deal.
Feb 03 09 08:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
ariana fromtoronto
Posts: 1,753
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


In light of this question, if the agency gos GAGA for you look, and could see you earning big bucks like gisele, would they waive the fee. and do they just offer this course to "ok. may have the look-models" as kind of a way to just insure themselves.

If the model doesnt work out and sucks, atleast they made 800 bucks.

( hehe rhyme not intentional)

but this is something i wonder.

Did anyone wave a course in Adriana lima's face? tongue
Feb 03 09 09:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Steve Alkok
Posts: 399
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


It doesn't matter how pretty you are. If you don't know how to stand in front of a camera or how to properly do a go-see or casting then you're not going to make money. Even the top models had to get some training......whether or not they paid is the question
Feb 03 09 10:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Virginia N aka vng2
Posts: 8
Markham, Ontario, Canada


I attended an interview yesterday with sutherland as well, except i don't think it was much of an interview actually as the agent who saw me didn't seem to want to ask a lot of questions and wait for answers, but instead continue on talking about how things work in the industry and about themselves. It was definitely not what i expected, I was with M Models and Talent earlier before, so it's not my first agency meeting.

At sutherlands, i hear their reputable which is why i went to see them, but the lady who i met with, measured my height, but nothing else, didn't bother to measure anything else or ask me for the other measurements, told me what i was limited to doing only certain things to due to my height, and then over looked my photos, told me i was beautiful, and then went on about themselves or the industry. She gave me terms and definitions, assuming that i wasn't familiar with it, or didn't expect me to know or i guess to have done my research before or have previous knowledge, at least that's what it seemed like as she spoke, while explaining what tearsheets and composite cards are, as if i didn't know, but I didn't try to intrude while she was speaking. She was surprised that i knew what 'bookers' were i think, because when i asked a question about them at the agency, she came back with a kind of sharp "What do you know about bookers?" and i obviously gave her a definition as the person who places what the client wants with models, and then she was calm again in answering my question. She wanted me to attend their modelling school, and was explaining about curriculum and what not, with a photo shoot at the end. Apparently they don't allow new models to work until after they've done 'schooling', and you can't pick and choose what courses you want to take and learn, you have to take it all, and pay the same fee.

If they were truly interested and cared for you, wouldn't they ask you questions to allow you to express yourself and wait for your answer at the interview? Wouldn't they want to know your other measurements? Shouldn't they ask you if you have other skills or talents that might contribute to work in commercial?
I'm having rather mixed thoughts on Sutherland, it seems like their just shoving you a piece of paper with info on their school, and asking you to pay and attend the classes, all of them whether you're going to use it or not... I asked what was the use of learning runway if you're going to be in commercial print, and she was just like you need it to learn to be critiqued.
May 03 11 12:03 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Virginia N aka vng2
Posts: 8
Markham, Ontario, Canada


so now i'm a bit skeptic as to whether to try to get signed by them and take the classes or not, especially since i feel like i don't need to take all of them and pay for such a price. I also asked if you already have a starter portfolio after having worked with another agency previously, and she was just like, they'd have to take a look at her tearsheets and see, if she doesn't have anything that works for them, then she can't use her current or past portfolio and will still have to attend the 'school' even if she's got some past exp in a field.
May 03 11 12:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Regen Chen
Posts: 87
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I'm not familiar with the agency although I work closely with all other major agencies in Toronto, as far as I know, Sutherland is an agency+model development. It's pretty big.

It's true you don't need to pay and take these courses, but if you really don't have these experiences (not talking about shopping mall runway shows or glam photoshoots), it'd be beneficial no matter what. 800 dollars is really inexpensive when you compare to industry standard rate 1-2 hours model testing for 200-400 (like 4 final pictures?).

I can't tell you how many beautiful people I've seen who just can't walk or pose in front of a camera. Without proper training, you might find yourself spending much more time doing creatives or free runway shows just to get the experience on your own, and time is money.

And of course like others said, if they really have to have you, they will not charge any fees. If the look you have isn't that special/strong, you gotta have exceptional skills to make it, in walking or posing, perhaps business skills (promote yourself) or the sweetest personality.

best
May 03 11 12:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,456
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Kinda hurts to see that the others followed Elite so many years ago.

In one way, if you get portfolio pieces by photographers who do know what they are doing , and some film exposure it could be worth while just the same.

Judging by your above interview, the person was not a true agent, nor a very good business person. They should listen, feel what you are there for how a relationship can develop. To just sell courses is not fair, but obviously a practice well entrenched in Canada.

Why didn't you stay with the other agencies though?
May 03 11 12:24 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Virginia N aka vng2
Posts: 8
Markham, Ontario, Canada


I wanted to be able to branch out and try out other agencies, see what others are like and see if i get different experiences, as some agents may not have all the same clients. Oh, and it's not $800, its $997 she said for the curriculum, and you can't as i said pick and choose parts of it, and there's no other class package, and ADDITIONAL costs she mentioned on top of that, for 2 blow up photos from the photo shoot at the end for $60, 10 comp cards for $20, and $140 for web maintenance and uploading. I understand that yeah, some of the classes might be good to know stuff and all, but when you think about seeing an agent you also think okay, so what do you think of me? I came here to see an agent as well, not just a sales person... Don't most other agents like to talk about you more and what you can contribute first than talk about the costs of portfolios, classes, etc. if their interested in you?
May 03 11 06:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ScorpioPics
Posts: 586
Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, Canada


Having worked as a booker in TORONTO ( at an agency with NO school component )

I can tell you that if I had a daughter and was going to have her learn some basics about modeling, I would not hesitate to send her to Elmer Olson's or Sutherland's school ...if they'd have her...free.  If not, she's not likely viewed as bookable and would NOT get a push from the booker(s) in the agency to recoup any investment

I would say that Sutherland's school, because they have been there a long time ( before I was working there and they still remain long after ) does indeed have a lot to offer a new model in terms of training as they are in touch with the CURRENT industry trends since they DO have a legitimate agency component.  Seriously. 

The reasons they charge for their school are:

- they are formal classes and require a paid instructor
- they consume products ( paper, hairspray, make-up )
- they include pre-paid third party services
- the price acts as a hedge to prevent "dreamers" from joining then dropping-out
- that increases the expected attendance for photoshoots, etc. which
- - is a motivator to the affiliated photographers and MUAs, stylists etc
- - helps their insurance adjuster calculate premiums
- the do earn some income from


If you are a model with the potential to earn back your $1,000 in a week of WORK
there is certainly a good reason to pay that money. 

This person will tell you if you have what it takes to be a model.

http://www.chantalenadeau.com/newfaces.htm

Her opinion, I would trust over any other in Toronto or even over Kelly Streit ( Mode Models, Alberta - considered by many to have been "the" Canadian agent of the 90's ) about your commercial viability ( ability to earn from modeling ).

If she is even "somewhat" interested in you - even asks more info and does not respond IMMEDIATELY with a "not what we're seeking" - you have the potential to earn all that back. Submit to her and see what she says. At 5'8" that is a little shy of the standard but you have some other positive physical attributes.

In my opinion, Chantale is the ultimate model development authority in Canada at the moment.

=======================

Or you can take the easy route:  ASK SUTHERLAND:

1 - What photographers will be shooting me during this course?
make a note and contact them DIRECTLY and see what they thing of you in terms of commercial viability and also what they'd charge you for some shots

2 - Do you think I will be able to earn back my investment withing 6 months of booking?


THEM:  We can't make grantees ( + blah blah blah )
...but you can show me how much effort your agency component believes in me and will promote me by REDUCING your fee to, say, $400. Can you show me that faith?

THEM: No, we can't do that...for anyone.


Did Addison Gill, Pamela Bernier, Monika Schnarre and Shalom Harlow pay the full price for your course? Did they even "take" the course? 


THEM: Uh ....

So you think I have what it takes to be a model, enough to warrant paying $1,000 for your course after which there is no promotional guarantee by virtue of even a reduction in your fee you'd charge Rosanne Barr to take it.  Is there something you're not telling me?   Does that sound shady to you? Would you like to think about the fee again? Obviously I'd be a nightmare if I got a job as a booker at a competitor.

THEM: I'll see what I can do about the fee....

[i] Why not give the boss a call right now while I'm here so that we can take care of it right now".



As you know - at the moment, paying the fee is not probable
and it is a BARRIER to entry at Sutherland.
So you have nothing to lose by going in there and OWNING them.
Pin them down and you'll probably get an offer to be a booker.
May 03 11 09:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
justin carriere
Posts: 6
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


i had a meeting/interview with sutherland as well and they didn't ask to much about my self more me asking about them but they wanted 697$ from me and she pretty much stopped the interview after talking about her top 3 clients and telling me who my competition would be lol she thought i lost interest and wasn't interested then i said i was interested and kept going on for a bit nicknamed me friendly as i left but i think im going to call back and ask to lower it to 400 or else ill go freelance and look else were any advice!
Oct 07 12 09:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kelleth
Posts: 2,512
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Sutherland's main board and their Model Work division/program are two completely separate things.

Main board (which works the same as any other fashion agency):
http://www.sutherlandmodels.com/modelli … ory=100069

Model Work:
http://www.modelwork.ca/
Oct 07 12 09:39 pm  Link  Quote 
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