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Photographer
Julian Marsalis
Posts: 1,191
Austin, Texas, US


Mask Photo wrote:
Has anyone given any thought as to whether a variant of this method is any good for output sharpening? Or is the good old unsharp mask still the best tool in the shed for that? Or am i totally off-base? (i tried Nik Sharpener Pro but it effed up sharpen for screen so badly that I never wanted to try it for printing)

Its great for sharpening a great sharpening script was written from it contained in this thread http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=510682

Oct 26 09 03:49 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Virtuoso Skins
Posts: 333
Asheville, North Carolina, US


I love you guys...
Oct 29 09 01:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul Lumnitzer
Posts: 5
Herndon, Virginia, US


I apologize if this has already been addressed.  Please point me in the right direction.

I downloaded the Others action and have it up and running. I get a couple of errors when i run the actions.

1. After the action select layer "LF" and groups it into a smart oject, the action then tries to apply a GB filter.  At that point i get an error:  Smart Object must be rasterized before proceeding, Edit Contents will no longer be available.  I press OK.  Not sure why i get the error?

2.About 5 steps later it selects the "LF" layer.  The next command is "Set of current layer"  i get an error The object "of current layer" is not currently available.  I can continue or stop.  I continue, but i guess that the command did not execute. 

3. This same error appears again when it tries to select the "LF" layer in a few more steps.

Any feedback on what may be happening would be greatly appreciated. I am using photoshop CS2.
Oct 29 09 03:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photons 2 Pixels Images
Posts: 16,997
Berwick, Pennsylvania, US


Paul Lumnitzer wrote:
I apologize if this has already been addressed.  Please point me in the right direction.

I downloaded the Others action and have it up and running. I get a couple of errors when i run the actions.

1. After the action select layer "LF" and groups it into a smart oject, the action then tries to apply a GB filter.  At that point i get an error:  Smart Object must be rasterized before proceeding, Edit Contents will no longer be available.  I press OK.  Not sure why i get the error?

2.About 5 steps later it selects the "LF" layer.  The next command is "Set of current layer"  i get an error The object "of current layer" is not currently available.  I can continue or stop.  I continue, but i guess that the command did not execute. 

3. This same error appears again when it tries to select the "LF" layer in a few more steps.

Any feedback on what may be happening would be greatly appreciated. I am using photoshop CS2.

You may have to use the action set for Photoshop 7. Or, if you're comfortable with scripts, you can download one of the scripts and try that. I haven't checked compatibility with CS2, though.

The latest action set is here...

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?threa … st10668592

And includes versions for 8bit, 16bit, and Photoshop 7 (16bit). Or, back a page is the latest script but it's a lot more involved than the actions. I also have another script back on page 15 called "Sharpen.jsx" that uses this method.

If you're still having trouble, let me know. I'll figure out how to fix it for ya. smile

Oct 29 09 05:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Q3S
Posts: 98
Abbeville, Alabama, US


ShadowLight wrote:
When "healing" do it on "current layer" only wink

Exactly... I didn't get what you were meaning with "current layer". It was the option in the tools bar!!!

Now I'm seeing the possibilities of this technique!

Oct 30 09 09:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert McCadden
Posts: 171
Kenmore, Washington, US


Photons 2 Pixels Images wrote:

You may have to use the action set for Photoshop 7. Or, if you're comfortable with scripts, you can download one of the scripts and try that. I haven't checked compatibility with CS2, though.

The latest action set is here...

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?threa … st10668592

And includes versions for 8bit, 16bit, and Photoshop 7 (16bit). Or, back a page is the latest script but it's a lot more involved than the actions. I also have another script back on page 15 called "Sharpen.jsx" that uses this method.

If you're still having trouble, let me know. I'll figure out how to fix it for ya. smile

I have been following the thread on and off and just downloaded your latest action.  When I run it the image gets much more contrasty right off the bat.  It was my understanding that the action would only seperate the frequencies and set up some editing layers.  Did I miss something?

Oct 30 09 11:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photons 2 Pixels Images
Posts: 16,997
Berwick, Pennsylvania, US


Robert McCadden wrote:

I have been following the thread on and off and just downloaded your latest action.  When I run it the image gets much more contrasty right off the bat.  It was my understanding that the action would only seperate the frequencies and set up some editing layers.  Did I miss something?

Probably not. It depends on the action set you got. I did put one out that over-exaggerated the sharpening/contrast but the others should give you just about what you started with. The overdone script is Sharpen.jsx.

The others may sharpen a bit, but it's been awhile since I've done anything with them. I've been concentrating on scripts more lately.

Oct 30 09 02:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert McCadden
Posts: 171
Kenmore, Washington, US


Photons 2 Pixels Images wrote:

Probably not. It depends on the action set you got. I did put one out that over-exaggerated the sharpening/contrast but the others should give you just about what you started with. The overdone script is Sharpen.jsx.

The others may sharpen a bit, but it's been awhile since I've done anything with them. I've been concentrating on scripts more lately.

Frequency.atn was the one I downloaded.

Oct 30 09 02:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photons 2 Pixels Images
Posts: 16,997
Berwick, Pennsylvania, US


Robert McCadden wrote:

Frequency.atn was the one I downloaded.

OK. I just went back and looked at it. That one will do a slight sharpen via duplicate HF layers merged. There's an easy fix for that if you feel comfortable with actions.

In the 8 or 16 bit version of the action set:
1. Open up an image file...any image. Make 2 new layers named HF1 mask and HF2 mask.
2. Select layer HF1 mask.
3. Highlight step #11 "Set current layer". If you click on the dropdown triangle in front of it, it shows set opacity to 25%.
4. In the actions palette menu (top right corner of the palette) click on that and find a menuitem that says "Record Again..." and click on it.
5. In the dialog that opens up, change the opacity from 25% to 0%
6. Select the layer HF2 mask.
7. Highlight step #23 "Set current layer". This will be basically the same as before.
8. Go to Record Again... and set the 25% to 0%.

That should take care of it for you. If not, let me know.

Oct 30 09 03:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Q3S
Posts: 98
Abbeville, Alabama, US


Hey, I'm doing the thing with splitting the frequencies. I'm experimenting right now with different blur radius and I found that small radius doesn't work when healing on the HF layer. I guess there is a relation between the HF and LF layers. HF keeps the detail while LF smooth it so, small radius in the LF layer isn't enough to blur blemishes. Now I'm thinking what should be a good radius for the LF Layer.

Mart smile
Oct 30 09 03:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photons 2 Pixels Images
Posts: 16,997
Berwick, Pennsylvania, US


Quantum3studio wrote:
Hey, I'm doing the thing with splitting the frequencies. I'm experimenting right now with different blur radius and I found that small radius doesn't work when healing on the HF layer. I guess there is a relation between the HF and LF layers. HF keeps the detail while LF smooth it so, small radius in the LF layer isn't enough to blur blemishes. Now I'm thinking what should be a good radius for the LF Layer.

Mart smile

Try this as a reference example...

When you do the blur, blur enough until you see the details you want to work on just blur out. Whatever you blur out on the GB layer will be on the High Frequency layer to work on. You won't be able to blur those details away completely in most cases as you'll probably still have some underlying tones from it so keep that in mind so you don't blur too much and end up with some of the tones you want to keep on the High Frequency layer where you are editing.

Oct 30 09 04:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sean Baker Photo
Posts: 8,036
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


A first attempt at a video tutorial.  I'm looking at a lot of different ways to do these, including manually-created Flash files, but wanted to give YT a shot first for simplicity of creation / operation / hosting.  Honest feedback would be great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnLzsZN7VMo
Oct 31 09 11:26 am  Link  Quote 
Digital Artist
Koray
Posts: 6,688
Ankara, Ankara, Turkey


that is some radical blur you are using there...may confuse less experienced people about the possible uses too.

but a nice video anyway...add some music maybe tongue
Oct 31 09 11:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sean Baker Photo
Posts: 8,036
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


Koray wrote:
that is some radical blur you are using there...may confuse less experienced people about the possible uses too.

but a nice video anyway...add some music maybe tongue

Good points, thanks.  I was worried that the resolution would come out terrible and you wouldn't be able to see the effect, but since YT has gone 'HQ' it doesn't seem to be so much of a problem.

Oct 31 09 11:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
d00dle
Posts: 162


nice quality, but slow down (lil too fast to follow since i'm a noob and all)...and add some sound/music.
Oct 31 09 11:48 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Julian Marsalis
Posts: 1,191
Austin, Texas, US


Adding some text to the video to help explain the values used could help. Following it is not to bad seeing the results is helpful now showing how to use it to soften skin would be bad ass lol.
Oct 31 09 12:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sean Baker Photo
Posts: 8,036
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


Julian Marsalis wrote:
Adding some text to the video to help explain the values used could help. Following it is not to bad seeing the results is helpful now showing how to use it to soften skin would be bad ass lol.

Soon smile.

Oct 31 09 12:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lomiglio Photography
Posts: 1
Reno, Nevada, US


I want to extend a very sincere thank you to you SRB Photo. I have a model that I work with on a regular basis. She is beautiful and extremely talented. The one thing is that she has very uneven skin texture on her face. Most of the shots I have done for her have that very processed skin look, where I have tried to recreate her skin texture after blurring it. The advice you gave worked amazingly well. Even in a high contrast lighting situation it produced unbelievable results. Thank you for sharing your valuable knowledge and helping me advance as a digital artist.

-Scott Lomill
Oct 31 09 09:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sean Baker Photo
Posts: 8,036
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


Julian Marsalis wrote:
now showing how to use it to soften skin would be bad ass lol.

Anyone have a headshot I can use as an example?  Send a PM if so...

Oct 31 09 11:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sean Baker Photo
Posts: 8,036
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0IrnjfCgPQ

Demonstration of the skin smoothing technique using Smart Objects as discussed earlier in the thread.  Photo credit goes to Sara Lando - huge thanks to her for use of the image, as well to all the others who sent notes offering their own works up for use in this video.

I've been staring at the screen for a bit, so if there are typos or other mistakes in the video, please say something that I can correct them straightaway.  As well, I'm still quite new to this, so let me know what I might do better to convey the techniques to the viewer - voiceovers will come sometime next week after I receive my headset.
Nov 01 09 01:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
ShadowLight
Posts: 203


SRB Photo wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0IrnjfCgPQ

Demonstration of the skin smoothing technique using Smart Objects as discussed earlier in the thread.  Photo credit goes to Sara Lando - huge thanks to her for use of the image, as well to all the others who sent notes offering their own works up for use in this video.

I've been staring at the screen for a bit, so if there are typos or other mistakes in the video, please say something that I can correct them straightaway.  As well, I'm still quite new to this, so let me know what I might do better to convey the techniques to the viewer - voiceovers will come sometime next week after I receive my headset.

nice!... can't tell about spelling mistakes (my mind is numb at the moment) but definitely got the technique you were showing.

thanks

Nov 01 09 02:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Julian Marsalis
Posts: 1,191
Austin, Texas, US


SRB Photo wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0IrnjfCgPQ

Demonstration of the skin smoothing technique using Smart Objects as discussed earlier in the thread.  Photo credit goes to Sara Lando - huge thanks to her for use of the image, as well to all the others who sent notes offering their own works up for use in this video.

I've been staring at the screen for a bit, so if there are typos or other mistakes in the video, please say something that I can correct them straightaway.  As well, I'm still quite new to this, so let me know what I might do better to convey the techniques to the viewer - voiceovers will come sometime next week after I receive my headset.

Very nice big Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nov 01 09 02:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DWolff Photo
Posts: 872
Germantown, Maryland, US


This is the first thread I have read in detail from end to end in a long time. I found  useful information on every page.   Sean thank you for starting this thread and encouraging input from everyone else.   I appreciate the information here more than you can know.  It was a great learning experience.  Now to go and practice.
Nov 01 09 04:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gibson Photo Art
Posts: 7,990
Phoenix, Arizona, US


SRB Photo wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0IrnjfCgPQ

Demonstration of the skin smoothing technique using Smart Objects as discussed earlier in the thread.  Photo credit goes to Sara Lando - huge thanks to her for use of the image, as well to all the others who sent notes offering their own works up for use in this video.

I've been staring at the screen for a bit, so if there are typos or other mistakes in the video, please say something that I can correct them straightaway.  As well, I'm still quite new to this, so let me know what I might do better to convey the techniques to the viewer - voiceovers will come sometime next week after I receive my headset.

I think a voice track would be a huge improvement. Also I am still at a loss in regard to what radius to use with the blur. Maybe a little discussion of that would be great in the video.

Nov 01 09 04:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sean Baker Photo
Posts: 8,036
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


Gibson Photo Art wrote:
I think a voice track would be a huge improvement. Also I am still at a loss in regard to what radius to use with the blur. Maybe a little discussion of that would be great in the video.

As soon as UPS drops off the mic / headset smile.

Nov 01 09 05:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gibson Photo Art
Posts: 7,990
Phoenix, Arizona, US


SRB Photo wrote:

As soon as UPS drops off the mic / headset smile.

Sweet.

Nov 01 09 05:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Digital Artist
Michael C Pearson
Posts: 1,343
Agoura Hills, California, US


I love this technique for digitally pressing clothes. During the initial separation, make sure all the detail/pattern on the clothes is on the HF layer. Clone/paint/d&b on the LF layer to remove the larger tonal values of the wrinkles, then clone on the HP layer to remove left over HF wrinkle data.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_h5_nuNOj9N4/TM0COjcb-hI/AAAAAAAAACc/WwMP1HPNxLE/s1600/digital-steam.gif
Nov 02 09 08:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
ShadowLight
Posts: 203


mikedimples wrote:
I love this technique for digitally pressing clothes. During the initial separation, make sure all the detail/pattern on the clothes is on the HF layer. Clone/paint/d&b on the LF layer to remove the larger tonal values of the wrinkles, then clone on the HP layer to remove left over HF wrinkle data.

http://a7.vox.com/6a0110184cd071860f0123dde0c0df860d-pi

I'll never have to iron again! smile

Nov 02 09 08:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sara Lando
Posts: 68
Bassano del Grappa, Veneto, Italy


SRB Photo wrote:
Demonstration of the skin smoothing technique using Smart Objects as discussed earlier in the thread.

This is SOOOOOO helpful.
thanks a lot!
I actually find the written caption so much helpful, since english is my second language and I can read it easily, but sometimes might have problems with people's accents or when they speak too fast. And moonlight sonata rocks smile
Thanks again!

Nov 02 09 11:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sean Baker Photo
Posts: 8,036
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


SRB Photo wrote:
Demonstration of the skin smoothing technique using Smart Objects as discussed earlier in the thread.  Photo credit goes to Sara Lando - huge thanks to her for use of the image, as well to all the others who sent notes offering their own works up for use in this video.

Incidentally, it's possible to still use this technique if you want to start with a Smart Object which is linked to the RAW file - as you can't invert the image directly, though, you have to clip Inversion & Brightness / Contrast adjustment layers to it.  Same result, though, and if you just directly duplicate the SO (vs. Stephen's discussion of 'New SO via copy'), it will remain linked to the lower layer and any adjustments will auto-update in both the original and the smoothing layers.

Theoretically, my mic will arrive today, so if it does and there is confusion as to wtf I'm talking about, I'll put up another video - let me know.

-----

And Mike - great example!

Nov 03 09 03:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sara Lando
Posts: 68
Bassano del Grappa, Veneto, Italy


ok. So.
I was playing quite a lot with you technique today and my main problem would be borders when there are abrupt transitions (eg: very red lipstick on very white skin)
The problem is that the red of the lipstick would pollute the color of the skin.

I tried using median instead of gaussian blur, but still.
Am I making any sense?
Nov 03 09 12:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sean Baker Photo
Posts: 8,036
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


Sara Lando wrote:
ok. So.
I was playing quite a lot with you technique today and my main problem would be borders when there are abrupt transitions (eg: very red lipstick on very white skin)
The problem is that the red of the lipstick would pollute the color of the skin.

I tried using median instead of gaussian blur, but still.
Am I making any sense?

You're making perfect sense, and you've come across one of the great limitations to the technique - frequencies don't inherently respect boundaries as we recognize them.  The easiest way of handling it is to do much as you've done and either use Median or the Surface Blur filters to get a more 'respective' smoothing operation, though both are also still somewhat limited.  One can also use selections as in grahamsz' original discussion on the technique in order to keep boundaries where you need them to be, or even use a color range selection to do it a bit more manually.

I hope that makes sense smile.

Nov 03 09 02:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sara Lando
Posts: 68
Bassano del Grappa, Veneto, Italy


SRB Photo wrote:
You're making perfect sense, and you've come across one of the great limitations to the technique - frequencies don't inherently respect boundaries as we recognize them.  The easiest way of handling it is to do much as you've done and either use Median or the Surface Blur filters to get a more 'respective' smoothing operation, though both are also still somewhat limited.  One can also use selections as in grahamsz' original discussion on the technique in order to keep boundaries where you need them to be, or even use a color range selection to do it a bit more manually.

I hope that makes sense smile.

totally does, thankyou.
I hoped there was some magic trick I was missing, but at the moment the fastest way I found was to make an action of the procedure, so I only need to click on a button and use different values for different parts and then maske them separately.
It's not perfect put it's a great starting point and saves me a LOT of time.

Nov 03 09 03:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darin B
Posts: 998
San Diego, California, US


Article in the November/December Scientific American MIND using examples of high pass, high/low spatial frequencies, perception, etc...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic … vinci-code

There are pics in the print version from this gallery.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/slide … -in-a-face

If this has been mentioned already I apologize for the repetition.

D
Nov 09 09 12:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wilde One
Posts: 2,359
Santa Monica, California, US


SRB Photo wrote:
A first attempt at a video tutorial.  I'm looking at a lot of different ways to do these, including manually-created Flash files, but wanted to give YT a shot first for simplicity of creation / operation / hosting.  Honest feedback would be great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnLzsZN7VMo

Great tutorial. Thanks.

Regarding the music: How about Rimsky-Korsakov's "Flight of the Bumblebee"? This would even be faster and increase the feel of sp-e-e-e-e-d big_smile

(Just kidding: this tutorial really showed your method in very short time and very clearly. Thanks.)

Nov 09 09 12:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
grahamsz
Posts: 1,035
Boulder, Colorado, US


Sara Lando wrote:
ok. So.
I was playing quite a lot with you technique today and my main problem would be borders when there are abrupt transitions (eg: very red lipstick on very white skin)
The problem is that the red of the lipstick would pollute the color of the skin.

I tried using median instead of gaussian blur, but still.
Am I making any sense?

I had some shots with smudged lipstick that i didn't notice until i downloaded the images. What i ended up doing was to use a sharp clone too to clean up the lip lines. I didn't worry much about making the colors or texture match, then I went ahead and separated and it was easy enough to clean up the earlier ugly cloning step.

It definitely requires some forethought and i've occasionally found myself starting over  when i realize i haven't done things in the right order.

In theory you could flatten and re-separate with no loss in quality, but that usually seems like too much work.

Nov 16 09 02:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photons 2 Pixels Images
Posts: 16,997
Berwick, Pennsylvania, US


grahamsz wrote:

I had some shots with smudged lipstick that i didn't notice until i downloaded the images. What i ended up doing was to use a sharp clone too to clean up the lip lines. I didn't worry much about making the colors or texture match, then I went ahead and separated and it was easy enough to clean up the earlier ugly cloning step.

It definitely requires some forethought and i've occasionally found myself starting over  when i realize i haven't done things in the right order.

In theory you could flatten and re-separate with no loss in quality, but that usually seems like too much work.

I actually do this quite often. I've found that separating at the right radius (or actually, doing the multi-decomposition) allows for some nice noise reduction. I'm still experimenting with doing it this way, but it's at least as good as the built-in PS filter from what I've seen so far.

Nov 25 09 07:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Digital Artist
Koray
Posts: 6,688
Ankara, Ankara, Turkey


Nice new information here to experiment with big_smile
Nov 26 09 05:00 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gil Rivera
Posts: 551
New York, New York, US


Post hidden on Nov 26, 2009 10:11 am
Reason: violates rules
Comments:
Please do not feed the trolls.
Nov 26 09 09:44 am  Link 
Digital Artist
Eithne Ni Anluain
Posts: 1,422
Dundalk, Louth, Ireland


mikedimples wrote:
I love this technique for digitally pressing clothes. During the initial separation, make sure all the detail/pattern on the clothes is on the HF layer. Clone/paint/d&b on the LF layer to remove the larger tonal values of the wrinkles, then clone on the HP layer to remove left over HF wrinkle data.

Mike you are a LEGEND!!! like seriously!!! I never thought of that! Works real well!!!

I did find though on real complex bridal wear that putting a new layer between the LF and HF and painting in the tonal differences works better than the cloning directly on the LF. (I like everything on new layers ya see for control) But I'm talking about real nasty (but beautiful) french lace bodices, trains.....

Dec 02 09 12:48 pm  Link  Quote 
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