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Photographer
Miguel Angel Paredes
Posts: 86
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


I am looking for thoughts on something that happened to me recently...

I was contacted by a model from OMP about a possible photoshoot for headshots for a new model portfolio. Her age on profile is 18, and since I am starting out, I am a bit paranoid with any model in the age range of 18-21. 

Now, this model is asking for "sexy" photos (lingerie/nudes), to which I told her that for either photoshoot, headshots or whatever, she needed to bring her photo ID.  She kinda avoided the subject and kept asking about locations and other stuff. I kept going back to the age/ID thing until she finally admited that she will not be 18 until September, but was prompt to state that her mom would sign anything in order to get her into the modeling business.  She also said that her mom was ok with someone taking "sexy" pictures.

I told her that I'd would like to meet her mother in order to get a release/consent for the headshots... but as far as anything else, I would not do anything until after September.  I told her that not even swimwear.  She did not like that at all and said "thanks but I'll find someone who will take the 'sexy' pics right now".

Any thoughts, comments... Thanks.
May 21 06 09:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chris Macan
Posts: 12,781
HAVERTOWN, Pennsylvania, US


Seems like a reasonable and cautious approach.
May 21 06 09:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21,320
Seattle, Washington, US


Are you comfortable with your decision and actions? If so, then you're done, irrespective of right or wrong, acceptable or not, legal or not, appropriate or not. You made the choice that made you comfortable.

Move on.
May 21 06 09:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Carmilla
Posts: 357
Highland, California, US


I think that you handled the situation quite well. It's always risky working with underage models. I'd say it's better that you didn't work with her, due to the fact that she lied about her age in the first place. Even if it's by a few months, it's still lying. Work with models who would gladly provide identification when asked for. I think that you made the right decision, as long as you agree.
May 21 06 09:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
mikell
60kFTW
Posts: 24,242
GERLACH, Nevada, US


Casually ask if she's on myspace if she is check it
sometimes but not always their real age may be on there
May 21 06 09:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Catriona S
Posts: 16
Portland, Oregon, US


I think your approach was right on. At the same time, I feel bad for that girl... Since obviously no photographer on the up-and-up will do lingerie/swimsuit stuff with a girl that age, her interest in those kinds of shots and desperation to get into modeling makes her a ripe target for creeps. But that's not your problem, and I doubt she would listen to advice anyway.
May 21 06 09:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NewBoldPhoto
Posts: 4,891
PORT MURRAY, New Jersey, US


It seems that every day we tell models on these boards to stick to their guns and stay within their comfort levels. The same goes for those on the other side of the camera. If you are not O.K. with the shoot don't do it.
I know that the OP is second guessing the decision not to shoot; including the thought “I would never hurt that girl but I turned her away, who will she go to next? Will they harm her?â€?
This may sound harsh but, as a photographer you are not the savior of every model that crosses your doorstep. You may not remove the burden of parenthood from the parents of an underage model, no matter how good your intentions.
If you feel the need to be someone’s savior, use your skills to champion: the homeless, the abused, the marginalized people of this world. Or get yourself a cross and a crown of thorns (if you go this route I would love to shoot it) but don’t expect too much attention this one has been done before.
I believe you made the right choice, time to move on.
May 21 06 09:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C s p i n e
Posts: 3,899
Portland, Oregon, US


How many gwc have asked you for her contact info so far? lol
May 22 06 01:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
lightsandshadow
Posts: 2,200
New York, New York, US


You so made the right decision!  Better to protect yourself in this type of situation.
May 22 06 01:14 am  Link  Quote 
Model
A BRITT PRO-AM
Posts: 7,840
CARDIFF BY THE SEA, California, US


yes. good for you.

and seriously...
  beware the pyscho under age harlots!!!!
May 22 06 01:16 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Kayla Donia
Posts: 185
Vancouver, Washington, US


Miguel Angel Paredes wrote:
I am looking for thoughts on something that happened to me recently...

I was contacted by a model from OMP about a possible photoshoot for headshots for a new model portfolio. Her age on profile is 18, and since I am starting out, I am a bit paranoid with any model in the age range of 18-21. 

Now, this model is asking for "sexy" photos (lingerie/nudes), to which I told her that for either photoshoot, headshots or whatever, she needed to bring her photo ID.  She kinda avoided the subject and kept asking about locations and other stuff. I kept going back to the age/ID thing until she finally admited that she will not be 18 until September, but was prompt to state that her mom would sign anything in order to get her into the modeling business.  She also said that her mom was ok with someone taking "sexy" pictures.

I told her that I'd would like to meet her mother in order to get a release/consent for the headshots... but as far as anything else, I would not do anything until after September.  I told her that not even swimwear.  She did not like that at all and said "thanks but I'll find someone who will take the 'sexy' pics right now".

Any thoughts, comments... Thanks.

I think you did the right thing.

You do what makes you comfortable. As for the girl she probably saw that 'sexy' pictures would get her more views and make her more popular. I could be wrong though, she could have the same reasoning as me.

I did a lot of different kind of shoots before I decided that really, I just work better, look my best and feel most comfortable if I'm wearing lingerie. Why I'm not completely sure, but it's what makes me feel good, so be it. It doesn't make me a 'slut' or a 'harlot' it's what makes me comfortable.

In my case, if a photographer doesn't feel comfortable shooting me in lingerie, that's fine, I'll do a casual shoot. I don't shoot lingerie with someone I haven't shot with before and don't trust completely anyways. If a photographer doesn't feel comfortable with me I don't want to put someone in that position.

You did the right thing definately.

May 22 06 04:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Incident Image
Posts: 342
Los Angeles, California, US


wont shoot swimwear with someone under 18?  LMAO.... its funny that the majority of fashion model start out at 14 or 15, yet all these MM photographers are scraed to shoot someone under 18.  hmm, i guess GUESS and A&F get SOMEONE to shoot them....
May 22 06 05:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BCI Photo
Posts: 938
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


Incident Image wrote:
wont shoot swimwear with someone under 18?  LMAO.... its funny that the majority of fashion model start out at 14 or 15, yet all these MM photographers are scraed to shoot someone under 18.  hmm, i guess GUESS and A&F get SOMEONE to shoot them....

It's his personal decision and you should respect that.

Anyway, you made the right decision. She lied to you from jump, and was probably lying about her moms saying it was ok for her to take sexy pics. Hell for all you really know, it might have been a police sting. Keep in mind that they're cracking down on guys who go trolling for underage girls on MYSPACE, OMP and probably here as well. Why put yourself in an embarrassing legal situation for the sake of taking pictures?

May 22 06 07:41 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Dear Miette
Posts: 126
Los Angeles, California, US


"Models" like her make the rest of us youngin's look bad. hmm
May 22 06 07:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Pringle
Posts: 1,608
New York, New York, US


Maybe it was a poser as an underaged model that is really a sting operation, You have to take that into account too. Sometimes peeps use whatever means to get that gold badge... No offence to those who do their job well and respect authorities.
May 22 06 07:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jack Curtis
Posts: 224
Westlake, Louisiana, US


Right, wrong, moral, immoral, safe, whatever. All I can say is you did just exactly what I would have done, and I think you did the right thing.
May 22 06 07:48 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lens N Light
Posts: 16,341
Bradford, Vermont, US


Catriona S wrote:
I think your approach was right on. At the same time, I feel bad for that girl... Since obviously no photographer on the up-and-up will do lingerie/swimsuit stuff with a girl that age, her interest in those kinds of shots and desperation to get into modeling makes her a ripe target for creeps. But that's not your problem, and I doubt she would listen to advice anyway.

Not do swimwear or lingerie? Whyever not? As long as the poses aren't overtly sexual (note: I didn't say sexy; sexy is OK), I don't see anything wrong with it. Even nudes can be shot, depending on the pose. I would draw the line there, myself, but I see nothing wrong with swimwear or lingerie.
If a kid wants to model, she/he deserves a chance to pose in something other than a business suit.

May 22 06 07:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chris Macan
Posts: 12,781
HAVERTOWN, Pennsylvania, US


Incident Image wrote:
wont shoot swimwear with someone under 18?  LMAO.... its funny that the majority of fashion model start out at 14 or 15, yet all these MM photographers are scraed to shoot someone under 18.  hmm, i guess GUESS and A get SOMEONE to shoot them....

GUESS, A&F and all the other mags hire fashion models from agencies and are not doing TFP with kiddie models from MM, OMP or MySpace.
The likelihood of getting caught up in some psychodrama on a professional fashion shoot is considerably less because everyone involved is working a job and getting paid.
So it's just not a comparable situation.
Shooting an underage model off MM, OMP or MySpace is no more illegal than the pros shooting the young fashion models, but the risk factor is much greater.
We are not dealing with professionals here.

So the potential for an angry parent to come after you is greater, the opportunity for a crusading law enforcement officer or DA is greater.
You could do everything by he book and still have the model accuse you of touching her funny during that swimsuit shot and who is going to back up your side of the story?

It's not that it's illegal...
But who needs the potential headaches.
If the guy was not comfortable with it he should not shoot it.
There is no upside for him.

May 22 06 08:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BCI Photo
Posts: 938
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


C'mon Chris, let's go to Hooters.

But not the one on Main ST. Sure the girls are cute, but they SERIOUSLY need to do 3 months worth of sit-ups.
May 22 06 08:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Timekeeper Photography
Posts: 83
Portland, Oregon, US


Why invite possible problems? This is a no brainer. If she said she's 18 on her profile, but she's not really 18, it's a red flag. She's a liar. What other lies are waitint to be uncovered from this kid. Avoid it like it bird flu. This is a childyour dealing with. Do yourself a favor and drop it like hot coals.

The world is full of women who are 18 and over who look great. Photograph them and when this kid gets to be of age perhaps photograph her as well.
May 22 06 08:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chris Macan
Posts: 12,781
HAVERTOWN, Pennsylvania, US


BCI Photo wrote:
C'mon Chris, let's go to Hooters.

But not the one on Main ST. Sure the girls are cute, but they SERIOUSLY need to do 3 months worth of sit-ups.

Hooters....
Mmmmm I could go for some hot wings right now.
Nothing like bar food for breakfast.

May 22 06 08:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Visions Of Paradise
Posts: 379
Honolulu, Hawaii, US


Wow interesting i have shot a model 17 with no problems however 16 is the legal age here. Not saying that you did the wrong thing but like it was stated girls start out modeling at age 15 on up. take baby commercials the are butt naked on our tv
and people are just fine with that. ohh but if we shoota model under 18 we are wrong gee wiz and yea state to state have thier own rules. If she lied don't do it if a model is on the up and up then don't turn her away. that is wrong period no if and or butts shoot the model and guide her sending her away may only let her fall into the hands of some JERK who will take advantage of her happends allot in L.A. but i would guess people are goint to just go over 18 and stings on shooting girls do not happen unless you are shooting porn. And for those who are going to argue
do your homework befor speaking. A gwc will not know the rules as much as a pro so all i am saying is that in no way shape or form is it illegal to shoot an underage model being a female or male unless it is of sexual content meaning porn swimware lingere in not porn damn miss Lima was shooting lingere at age 16 and thats Victoria secrets miss lima for the collage graduates of the bunch... But you did handle yourself quite well im just venting on people who bag on models that do not meet thier age requiremen like i said little infints are paradeing thier asses all over tv land in the nude and nobody cries OMG kiddy porn......
May 22 06 08:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BCI Photo
Posts: 938
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


Axlf....

Breathe, dude. lol

I don't know if you're aware of the situation here stateside, but there's a real growing concern about predators posing as photogs on MYSPACE, OMP and probably here.
We're not talking about underage agency models or shooting underage girls for agencies, we're talking about underage girls from "model/networking" sites soliciting photogs, or being solicited by "photogs" to pose for lingerie, swimwear, or god forbid nude pics that really have no merit or benefit, just something some guy can have as his own personal collection.

Tell you what though, for everyone that sees nothing wrong with it, then post the pics in your ports.... What's that you say?  The rules don't allow it? Uh... Why do you think that is???? What's that you say? Because the site owners don't want to face prosecution of displaying child porn??? because there's no site out there that's U.S. based that has nude children all across it's pages due to federal laws???

Ok then.
May 22 06 08:51 am  Link  Quote 
Casting Director
GRACE KOFTEKIAN
Posts: 3,925


i got a call on Friday from a person that sed that she got my name from some one off my myspace page well the first thing out of my mouth becids hi was how old are you she sed 17 i went immedetly in to that i would have to meet her legal garden and that they would have to be present at the shoot and i would not do it other wise she sed that there only seiner porterts and that i would not photo her in any underwear or sexy poses. she was like "okkkk????" and i told her that she could call me back when she could get one of her parents to arrange a meeting with me to set things up now i do this for 2 reasons 1 to cover my ass and i do not get accused of any thing 2 i try to get my photos published as much as i can and she can not ligly sine a waver saying that i can publish the photos her ligal garden until she is 18 is the only person that can so if she can not sine it the photos are all but worthless to me she has of yet not calld me back
May 22 06 09:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
James Jackson Fashion
Posts: 10,634
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


... reviving dead forum
May 22 06 09:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
nathan combs
Posts: 3,687
Waynesboro, Virginia, US


i just told some one that called me about me photoing them that was 17 no photos unless you have a parent meat me and a legal garden was there for the shoot no exceptions
May 22 06 09:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lens N Light
Posts: 16,341
Bradford, Vermont, US


BCI Photo wrote:
Axlf....

Breathe, dude. lol

I don't know if you're aware of the situation here stateside, but there's a real growing concern about predators posing as photogs on MYSPACE, OMP and probably here.
We're not talking about underage agency models or shooting underage girls for agencies, we're talking about underage girls from "model/networking" sites soliciting photogs, or being solicited by "photogs" to pose for lingerie, swimwear, or god forbid nude pics that really have no merit or benefit, just something some guy can have as his own personal collection.

Tell you what though, for everyone that sees nothing wrong with it, then post the pics in your ports.... What's that you say?  The rules don't allow it? Uh... Why do you think that is???? What's that you say? Because the site owners don't want to face prosecution of displaying child porn??? because there's no site out there that's U.S. based that has nude children all across it's pages due to federal laws???

Ok then.

OK, just for your challenge, I brought up a photo of a 14 yr old in swimwear. There is absolutlely nothing wrong with the shot (well, content wise, Exposure is a bit off)
She was and is a good model although strictly amateur. Oh, and she's 22 now.

www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pic_id=4471c79dc38a0

May 22 06 09:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BCI Photo
Posts: 938
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


Lens N Light wrote:

OK, just for your challenge, I brought up a photo of a 14 yr old in swimwear. There is absolutlely nothing wrong with the shot (well, content wise, Exposure is a bit off)
She was and is a good model although strictly amateur. Oh, and she's 22 now.

www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pic_id=4471c79dc38a0

That's nice, swimsuits are cool, actually. I've shot Athena when she was 17 in a swimsuit with 3 people over 18 OUTSIDE standing with us.

BUT.....

It's all personal choice. Would you post a pic of a model under 18/over 13 nude? Hell naw. Would you take the shot? I wouldn't, even if it's lingerie. But that's MY personal choice. My personal business practice. I just don't see the NEED nor DESIRE for someone, especially a man, to want to do it with an underage girl.

May 22 06 09:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Visions Of Paradise
Posts: 379
Honolulu, Hawaii, US


Well like i said state law for you guys is 18 and Hawaii is 16 so without parents signature non sexual..... and ok there are way too much people who claim to be photographers to get girls for other things ie get leid. The digital world has made it so that a monkey can take a decent picture. buy a pro looking camera and girls think wow a pro photographer damn that makes our job that much harder when they get burned. And i do not go through an agency for girls why pay them that makes no sence to pay two parties for one result. But i will not argue with you on the issue that way too much idiots prey on women on sites like myspace.
May 22 06 09:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chris Macan
Posts: 12,781
HAVERTOWN, Pennsylvania, US


BCI Photo wrote:
Axlf....

Tell you what though, for everyone that sees nothing wrong with it, then post the pics in your ports....

there's no site out there that's U.S. based that has nude children all across it's pages due to federal laws???

Ok then.
Lens N Light wrote:
OK, just for your challenge, I brought up a photo of a 14 yr old in swimwear. There is absolutlely nothing wrong with the shot (well, content wise, Exposure is a bit off)
She was and is a good model although strictly amateur. Oh, and she's 22 now.

www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pic_id=4471c79dc38a0

I think he was refering to a nude or implied nude.....
There are lots of not 18 model pics up here and I don't think any one is saying that it's really an issue.

May 22 06 09:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
George ephrem
Posts: 981
Jacksonville, Florida, US


all i can say is , if she is under18, then mom MUST be there!!!! no if's, an's or buts.
i have turned down to girls because the mom could not show with them.
it is not worth the legal hassles.
be for warned.........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 22 06 09:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lens N Light
Posts: 16,341
Bradford, Vermont, US


BCI Photo wrote:

That's nice, swimsuits are cool, actually. I've shot Athena when she was 17 in a swimsuit with 3 people over 18 OUTSIDE standing with us.

BUT.....

It's all personal choice. Would you post a pic of a model under 18/over 13 nude? Hell naw. Would you take the shot? I wouldn't, even if it's lingerie. But that's MY personal choice. My personal business practice. I just don't see the NEED nor DESIRE for someone, especially a man, to want to do it with an underage girl.

But often, it is not something you are doing for you own gratification. The girl or her arents or an agency might be hiring you tov do her portfolio. It's just a job. I agree thoughthat I wouldn't consider it without the signature of a legal guardian on a release and without ne or more present during the shoot.

May 22 06 09:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,888
Chicago, Illinois, US


As someone already posted who's shooting all those under 18 models for Elle,
Vogue , W and Harper's?  I'm for being cautious but some of these posts are
just down right silly.  Not that the OP is silly but, l the don't shoot models under
18 and if you do don't shoot them in swimwear or anything racy.  Hmmm last
I checked children wear swimsuits to the beach and most wear underwear.  It's
really getting to the point where some of you will advocate only shooting 25 year
old models who bring two escorts with a lawyer and a video of the shoot is being
taped.  Lets recap shall we?  Many of the major fashion spreads are using models
under 18.  Some of those shoots have the models in lingerie or very sexy outfits.
Many of the times there are NO escorts or parents on the set.  There are MUA'S
and stylists, etc.  This being through a agency.  There was a actual thread here
where a under 18 model was asking if she should shoot swimwear and some of the posters hinted that models under 18 in swimwear could be considered child porn.
Another recent thread suggested some images of young girls be a shooter of models who
were fully clothed with shorts and long dresses and pants on could be
considered porn because one of the girls had the strap of her dress down.
The images were in bad taste for sure but child porn?  Last I looked the images
were still up on OMP.  I'm all for protecting children.  I'm all for escorts but I'm
all for being cautious and carefull but some of this is just silly, over cautious and
well dumb.
May 22 06 10:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Miguel Angel Paredes
Posts: 86
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Funny you guys mention the mom... I told her that I wanted to meet her mom and that after her mom sign paperwork, I'd rather she stay for the photoshoot (headshots) and she said that "no way" would her mom go or stay... even though her mom is the one that is so "proud" that her girl is going to be a model... but that her mom would sign "whatever was needed" for someone to take her pictures.

I have no problem shooting swimwear with underage, as long as I know before hand that she is underage and there is paperwork sign by the parent/legal guardian.  I know that most models start at a young age, but like someone mentioned earlier, "Guess", "A&F" and others are working with PR firms, established modeling agencies and lets not forget the hundreds of lawyers that are involved in all of the paperwork from ALL sides, the talent, the PR firm, the agency, hell, probably the photographer, even if he's staff may have his own lawyer involved somehow...
May 22 06 10:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 53,245
Buena Park, California, US


Does this bother anyone?

http://www.pbase.com/image/47476382.jpg
May 22 06 10:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chris Macan
Posts: 12,781
HAVERTOWN, Pennsylvania, US


DigitalCMH wrote:
Does this bother anyone?

http://www.pbase.com/image/47476382.jpg

Yes,
I don't particularly care for the Composition and Lighting

May 22 06 10:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BCI Photo
Posts: 938
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


Chris Macan wrote:

Yes,
I don't particularly care for the Composition and Lighting

lol

May 22 06 11:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 53,245
Buena Park, California, US


Chris Macan wrote:

Yes,
I don't particularly care for the Composition and Lighting

Well, suck it up because I was on vacation in Yosemite and I snuck a shot of a sunbather that I later learned was 15 and wanting to flirt with my 14 y.o. nephew.

big_smile

May 22 06 11:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chris Macan
Posts: 12,781
HAVERTOWN, Pennsylvania, US


DigitalCMH wrote:

Well, suck it up because I was on vacation in Yosemite and I snuck a shot of a sunbather that I later learned was 15 and wanting to flirt with my 14 y.o. nephew.

big_smile

Why did you feel the need to "Sneek" the shot,
I hope is wan't cause "She was Sooo Hottt"
Ya dirty old fellow.

May 22 06 11:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BCI Photo
Posts: 938
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


Chris Macan wrote:

Why did you feel the need to "Sneek" the shot,
I hope is wan't cause "She was Sooo Hottt"
Ya dirty old fellow.

I'm calling the police.


j/k

May 22 06 01:35 pm  Link  Quote 
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