When you post a request for help with a problem, please spend a minute or two thinking through exactly what you want, and perhaps another minute or two finding words that express that thought.
I'm posting this rant because I've wasted time several times today answering questions that were "blonde," if you get my meaning.
Example 1
A poster wrote: I'm looking for tips or links to tutorials on how to edit skin using curves as a part of the process.
A couple of posts later -- after I've located a string of links that fit his request -- the poster takes the trouble to say that "part of the process" refers only to dodge/burn techniques. That qualification could have easily been included in the original post.
Example 2
another poster wrote: Basically I want to create a layer with all levels above a certain level - lets say 50% gray. (snip) I want all pixels that are darker than 50% gray to be black. Everything brighter than 50% gray will be its "natural brightness" (for lack of a better term).
After I post a reply explaining an easy way to do precisely what is described above, the OP takes the trouble to say what he really wanted:
It makes the selection to hard edged .... I would like a softer selection.
I'm not a perfectionist -- far from it -- but it really is a pain in the ass to take the trouble to answer someone's question when they won’t bother to ask the right question in the first place.
These forums are a two way street. If you want people to give you help with a problem, please spend enough time and effort to give them a clear idea what you want. The above two examples -- and I could give others – really don’t make the cut.
Not for nothin' but sometimes people don't know what they need to know in order to "ask the right questions" in the OP. This can only come from dialog which is not always easy to accomplish on message boards.
But I do understand what you mean. It can be frustrating. And the OP can use a bit more tact when asking for further information on a subject if their question wasn't completely answered instead of bordering on rude when they reply.
Photons 2 Pixels Images wrote: Not for nothin' but sometimes people don't know what they need to know in order to "ask the right questions" in the OP. This can only come from dialog which is not always easy to accomplish on message boards.
Yes, I agree. But it's equally true that sometimes (I would say quite often) people can know what they need or want if they take a little time to think it through. In the examples I posted, the OPs didn't need any dialog to know what they wanted. The just needed to stop and think.
I'm not charging anyone with felonies here. If I were as lazy about responding to these questions as the OPs were in framing them, I wouldn't have responded. Meet me halfway in the effort department. That's all I'm asking.
I totally agree with you. We're taking our own personal time to give free instruction, and even making examples ourselves, and then later on you find out they were looking for something completely different than what they asked for.
I just helped out on a thread where someone wanted to get African American skin black, and they showed an example of a glossy pitch black mannequin. I responded with an example I experimented with and shared my techniques and took the time to upload and post the photos. I just checked back and someone else posted an example of slightly darker skin, and they said yes that is what I'm looking for.
WTF?
That was in no way pitch black glossy skin.
The only reason I don't regret trying to help them, or others, and continue helping is because someone else reading the post might actually learn from my post and use the technique.
While we're on this: how about removing mystery from thread titles? Distill what you're saying/asking to it's essence and make a clear, concise title that gets us at least in the ballpark of what you're after.
I can't stand titles like: "Please forgive my ignorance, but" or "The 7D Is...." or "What the hell happened here?" or "picture" (all pulled from the front page of Photo Talk just now).
Jim Lafferty wrote: While we're on this: how about removing mystery from thread titles? Distill what you're saying/asking to it's essence and make a clear, concise title that gets us at least in the ballpark of what you're after.
I can't stand titles like: "Please forgive my ignorance, but" or "The 7D Is...." or "What the hell happened here?" or "picture" (all pulled from the front page of Photo Talk just now).
Jim Lafferty wrote: While we're on this: how about removing mystery from thread titles? Distill what you're saying/asking to it's essence and make a clear, concise title that gets us at least in the ballpark of what you're after.
Ditto^Infinity! (I was trying to find a infinity symbol but alas...)
My personal faviourate and usually ends in me having a scream at the screen is:
How do you airbrush/retouch?
HELLO!! Come the F*** on will ye!! Use the search engine provided and USE YOUR WEE HEADS!!!
Peano, I saw that thread and I could feel your pain. The problem with the internet is you can't shake somebody by the shoulders when they need it.
I also saw where you wrote something to the effect of "why do I bother", and the answer is because you can, because it's frequently understood and appreciated, because it makes a person feel good to be of service to another, and because you do your best and then it's out of your hands. Also, many more are reading along and learning besides the O.P.
Some people don't know enough to know what they're asking, as others have pointed out. Knowing she's my wife's daughter, I've spent extra time with my girl helping her with word problems - the most important point being "what is the question?".
Some people don't know what their question is.
Most people will apologize and rephrase the question after they've sent a lot of people spinning their wheels helping them with the wrong problem.
Some will feel stupid that they misunderstood or followed the instructions incorrectly, then get defensive and make excuses, dismissive of the help they've received (and thus dismissing the actual live human being on the other side of that free help).
We'll make a mental note of these people, and hope that the time we've wasted with them is helpful information to others. We still get full marks for trying, with old Saint Nick.
And the O.P.? Well, they're more to be pitied than censured.
PYPI FASHION wrote: The more time I spend on Model Mayhem, the lower expectations. It's a good strategy because it allows you to be pleasantly surprised.
That's the same approach I take in real life to dealing with all people - I assume they're all idiots. Instead of being disappointed 98% of the time, I am now pleasantly surprised 2% of the time.
I'm honestly surprised this thread hasn't been locked instead of just one post hidden. I have a good idea why, though.
So in order to keep this thread in the spirit of this forum, how about we discuss how to make someone look confused using Photoshop.
I would say liquify the eyebrows to raise them up a bit. Scrunch the lips in a bit, Wrinkle the forehead. Slightly squint the eyes.
If you really want to show it, you can add a huge question mark to their forehead maybe with a drop shadow and inner glow and lower opacity. Or a dunce cap.
Ravendrive Productions wrote: I agree but you have to lure people into your threads sometimes.
=]
I think you may have just given the best operational definition of trolling.
I'm not sure I understand the OP's rant. One spin seems nonsensical to me. Another spin seems decidedly unflatterying. Perhaps there's yet another I'm just not seeing.
There is no particular payoff in positing information on the internet save the intrinsic value of raising the tide which floats everyone. I learned that from the guy that's been gagged and brigged.
Essential Form wrote: I'm not sure I understand the OP's rant. One spin seems nonsensical to me. Another spin seems decidedly unflatterying. Perhaps there's yet another I'm just not seeing.
There is no particular payoff in positing information on the internet save the intrinsic value of raising the tide which floats everyone. I learned that from the guy that's been gagged and brigged.
Yeah, why is our Voice Of Reason always muted? Never mind, I know why, that saucy little devil.
As for the O.P., I believe this thread was inspired by a couple of specific cases, in one of which the person asking didn't just word their query misleadingly, they were quite... ungraceful when it was pointed out that their question (as worded) had been answered. Sure, there's no sense crying over spilt milk, but being frustrated by it is only human nature.
Being a newbie myself when it comes to photoshop, i can understand the persons asking for advise and not getting the words correct or knowing exactly what he is wanting.
I know personally speaking, when i am looking to do something (whatever tool it is) I am sure in my mind, that if i do this step, then this, then i "hope " to achieve this.
This +this = blah.... ( how a newbie thinks, or at least this one)
where it might have to be ...This +this+layer this+ this +this-this+ etc etc= BAM !!!
I am just reminding all how it is to learn something. Newbies see others work and dont realise that it took years for the "pro" to develope his methods.
Just my $0.02
Cristina M Beller wrote: I totally agree with you. We're taking our own personal time to give free instruction, and even making examples ourselves, and then later on you find out they were looking for something completely different than what they asked for.
I just helped out on a thread where someone wanted to get African American skin black, and they showed an example of a glossy pitch black mannequin. I responded with an example I experimented with and shared my techniques and took the time to upload and post the photos. I just checked back and someone else posted an example of slightly darker skin, and they said yes that is what I'm looking for.
WTF?
That was in no way pitch black glossy skin.
The only reason I don't regret trying to help them, or others, and continue helping is because someone else reading the post might actually learn from my post and use the technique.
Cool thanks for the idea and info. Now what if I wanted to take a light skinned person, and turn them into a pitch black mannequin, and turn a pitch black mannequin into a light skinned person, how would I go about doing that? Did that question make sense? I mean, if I actually wanted to do something like that, would that question be clear enough?
Jim Lafferty wrote: While we're on this: how about removing mystery from thread titles? Distill what you're saying/asking to it's essence and make a clear, concise title that gets us at least in the ballpark of what you're after.
I can't stand titles like: "Please forgive my ignorance, but" or "The 7D Is...." or "What the hell happened here?" or "picture" (all pulled from the front page of Photo Talk just now).
Here's what each means:
"How do you do HDR with moving objects?"
"I Love my 7D!"
"Mysterious brown spot on my image"
"How do you post images in threads?"
kthxby
I believe the acronym in this case would be K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) :-)
Bernie Browder wrote: I'd give a buck fitty to know what Robert said. LOL
Robert pointed out that when making an effort to understand posts written by someone other than himself, the OP might be his own worst enemy. Robert further pointed out that the meaning behind example number two was more than understandable as it was written, and that the OP might look a little closer to home in an effort to understand his failure to understand. Robert did all of this in a very positive and helpful manner. Obviously, someone wasn't able to understand that positive and helpful manner, and Robert was tossed in the brig.
Robert would like to add at this point that since rants, outings, and personal attacks, are briggable offences, he wonders why he was put in the brig while others weren't.
Gibson Photo Art wrote: So if you want to be the hero that's great, but not everyone is going to recognize your efforts.
I think you're reading your own meanings into my post. Here's what I said:
These forums are a two way street. If you want people to give you help with a problem, please spend enough time and effort to give them a clear idea what you want.
That doesn't put me in the position of trying to be a hero or seeking everyone's recognition. It's just a request for people put a reasonable amount of thought into their questions before they hit the post button. Do you really think that's too much to ask?
Maybe if I paraphrase the Golden Rule: Put as much effort into your question as you would like others to put into their answers.
Robert pointed out that when making an effort to understand posts written by someone other than himself, the OP might be his own worst enemy. Robert further pointed out that the meaning behind example number two was more than understandable as it was written, and that the OP might look a little closer to home in an effort to understand his failure to understand. Robert did all of this in a very positive and helpful manner. Obviously, someone wasn't able to understand that positive and helpful manner, and Robert was tossed in the brig.
Robert would like to add at this point that since rants, outings, and personal attacks, are briggable offences, he wonders why he was put in the brig while others weren't.
Robert is funny when he refers to himself in the third person.
I received this email recently, and I thought I would share it with you...
"Robert would like to add at this point that since rants, outings, and
personal attacks, are briggable offences, he wonders why he was put in the
brig while others weren't."
Probably because you're just a plain asshole.
It came through my web site without any signature, I can only assume the author wanted to remain anonymous. Since the origin of the quote is obviously this thread, I can only guess at who must have written it. I would like to assure that person, whoever she is, that there is absolutely nothing plain about me. When I decide to do something, it's usually with an aggressive approach and outstanding results. Therefore, I'm going to amend your observation with this assertion... I am an outstanding asshole!
Next time, have the stones to sign the thing so I can properly blast your dumb ass.
Guys don't like being called girls, it brings focus to their lack of masculinity. It is the height of insult to call a guy, a girl. Sending an unsigned email is something a truly spineless sissy would do, hence he gets called a girl. To validate my argument, would you go out on a date with someone like that, providing of course he had the nerve to ask you, and his mother would allow him to go.
Guys don't like being called girls, it brings focus to their lack of masculinity. It is the height of insult to call a guy, a girl. Sending an unsigned email is something a truly spineless sissy would do, hence he gets called a girl. To validate my argument, would you go out on a date with someone like that, providing of course he had the nerve to ask you, and his mother would allow him to go.
My point still stands ... I have a lot more balls than that and I'm a very girly girl.
So call him a weak coward, an idiot, a tiny little warm with nothing else to do... but leave us girls out of this. We are the nice ones
Robert Randall wrote: Guys don't like being called girls, it brings focus to their lack of masculinity. It is the height of insult to call a guy, a girl. Sending an unsigned email is something a truly spineless sissy would do, hence he gets called a girl. To validate my argument, would you go out on a date with someone like that, providing of course he had the nerve to ask you, and his mother would allow him to go.
Natalia_Taffarel wrote: My point still stands ... I have a lot more balls than that and I'm a very girly girl.
So call him a weak coward, an idiot, a tiny little warm with nothing else to do... but leave us girls out of this. We are the nice ones
I think Robert's point is not that he thinks girls are weak or spineless, but that the sissy who didn't sign his sad attempt at an insult will hate being called a girl (because darn it, she's sick and tired of it by now!). It's just another of those childlike and charming way we like to hurt each other. Because we are not the nice ones.
My point still stands ... I have a lot more balls than that and I'm a very girly girl.
So call him a weak coward, an idiot, a tiny little warm with nothing else to do... but leave us girls out of this. We are the nice ones
I have to take Natalia's side on this one. No reason to insult girls like this.
And to keep things on topic, I have often posted questions asking for help when I had no idea what exactly it was I needed help with. I know this is frustrating to others trying to help but if someone doesn't have the patience to explain things to an idiot like me, perhaps they should think twice before offering assistance. Honestly, I'd rather someone didn't answer than to have them get riled up because they don't understand what I'm trying to ask.
And on the flip side, sometimes I've posted a fairly simple, straightforward question and have received answers to questions I never asked. My recent softlight thread comes to mind there. At least I thought it was a simple enough question.
I have to take Natalia's side on this one. No reason to insult girls like this.
And to keep things on topic, I have often posted questions asking for help when I had no idea what exactly it was I needed help with. I know this is frustrating to others trying to help but if someone doesn't have the patience to explain things to an idiot like me, perhaps they should think twice before offering assistance. Honestly, I'd rather someone didn't answer than to have them get riled up because they don't understand what I'm trying to ask.
And on the flip side, sometimes I've posted a fairly simple, straightforward question and have received answers to questions I never asked. My recent softlight thread comes to mind there. At least I thought it was a simple enough question.
Yeah! Usually if I know how to frame the question I can find the answer myself. It's when I'm missing too much info to form the question correctly that Google fails me.
another poster wrote: Basically I want to create a layer with all levels above a certain level - lets say 50% gray. (snip) I want all pixels that are darker than 50% gray to be black. Everything brighter than 50% gray will be its "natural brightness" (for lack of a better term).
No, your reply did not do what I requested.
Its a pain in the ass for people to insist they answered my question when they didn't read it and answer it appropriately.
I specifically stated, and you just pasted here:
everything brighter than 50% gray will be its "natural
brightness" (for lack of a better term)
Your solution does not leave the values above 50% at their natural brightness. It forces everything ot pure black or pure white, no grays.
It's a pain in the ass to have people post threads like this when they misread the request.
Robert Randall wrote: Robert further pointed out that the meaning behind example number two was more than understandable as it was written, and that the OP might look a little closer to home in an effort to understand his failure to understand.
Damn right Seems like peano & ezpkns are the only two with comprehension problems.
