So I did this TF* shoot Sunday Oct 25th and explained my terms for doing TF* with me to model. I would email her web size (600x400) of all the pre-selected photos from the shoot within 2 days, then she would pick her 5 favourites for me to retouch. Then I would provide her with the 5 edited pics within 2 weeks (although my normal delivery time of fully edited is between 2 and 4 weeks depending on my work load). She agreed so we did the shoot.
I sent her the pre-selected images the next day after the shoot and she sent me her picks 3 days later. Two days later she emailed me asking for the edited pics, and I told her they would be ready in 2 weeks (hence on Sunday Nov 7th). She replied "Wow 2 weeks! That is a long time", although these were the terms we agreed in the first place. I disregarded her email and then got 2 new emails again last Sunday asking for the pics again, and by that time I was upset already, so told her if she was in such a rush as an alternative to editing the pics for her I could give her the 5 Full Res images and that she could find a retoucher to do the editing (seems her boyfriend is good at Photoshop anyways). She accepted to get the High Res images which I sent yesterday. So I thought my problems were over, and 1 hour ago I got a new email from her saying the pics are great but that she still going to wait for me to do the edited pics by Sunday.. WTF!
Anyways, I replied to her I sent her the High Res (thing I have never done before) so I am not editing those ones anymore. I will give her fully edited pics of my choosing at a later date (which could be 2 weeks or 2 months..who knows, cause I don;t work against the clock for my own edits). I am super busy at the office for the next 3 weeks so the last thing I need is worry about editing pics for a TF* shoot.. Plus I am still finishing some paid gig retouches this week.
Am I been a jerk or is this model a persistent little brat? One thing is for sure, I am not shooting her again ever. Is my second shoot with her and the first time she did not bug me this much, and she has been begging me to shoot her for the last 2 months, although I was busy so could not accommodate her earlier.
Being overly flexible tends to feed that behavior in some people. It's her bad for being impatient and demanding, it's your bad for giving in... eventually you're going to have to firmly tell people like that no, it's always better sooner rather than later.
Mark Salo wrote: Was the two week estimate in writing?
No it wasn't.. I use to put the times and all those terms in the TF* agreement (which was in the back page of the Model Release). Instead of writing all the time I just printed a bunch of forms that just need to be filled with name, signature date. Still, this is a FREE shoot, will she sue me for not giving her images in time? Plus I can understand if she starts bugging after 2 weeks, not before even 1 week has elapsed.
Dannielle Levan wrote: Sounds like she's trying to take advantage of you.
Well, she is 19 years old and still believes in unicorns and Santa Claus... She was asking me after the shoot if I could do a website for her..for FREE...LMFAO..
Jake Garn wrote: Being overly flexible tends to feed that behavior in some people. It's her bad for being impatient and demanding, it's your bad for giving in... eventually you're going to have to firmly tell people like that no, it's always better sooner rather than later.
I know, and I totally agree with you. I am too much of a nice guy and always have trouble trying to be firm The part about giving edited pics in a TF* shoot has become a bit of trouble for me this year. These shoots are suppose to be fun yet I find myself working late nights to get the images ready within the time I agree, that is starting to feel like a damn job. For paid gigs I have no issues losing sleep if I have to, but for TF*, screw that! I need to seriously re-think my terms and put them in paper again and have that reviewed and signed by the model prior to the day of the shoot.
It's not a FREE shoot. It's a TRADE shoot. She is trading her time for photos, and you are taking her photos I assume for your portfolio, so you are benifiting from this shoot perhaps not monetarily (as in a paid shoot), but you are still getting something out of it too. If you said two weeks I'd ignore her emails and constant nagging, fulfill your part of the agreement as you normally would. End of story.
Dannielle Levan wrote: Sounds like she's trying to take advantage of you.
Well, she is 19 years old and still believes in unicorns and Santa Claus... She was asking me after the shoot if I could do a website for her..for FREE...LMFAO..
I know, and I totally agree with you. I am too much of a nice guy and always have trouble trying to be firm The part about giving edited pics in a TF* shoot has become a bit of trouble for me this year. These shoots are suppose to be fun yet I find myself working late nights to get the images ready within the time I agree, that is starting to feel like a damn job. For paid gigs I have no issues losing sleep if I have to, but for TF*, screw that! I need to seriously re-think my terms and put them in paper again and have that reviewed and signed by the model prior to the day of the shoot.
Another thing you can do that I've had to do in the past, tell them they get to choose 2 photos, and they'll also receive anything else you edit for yourself. That will cut your editing time down.
Mark Salo wrote: Was the two week estimate in writing?
Rafael Telles wrote: No it wasn't..
^
^
^
Theres the problem...
People tend to forget things in their excitement...EVEN when they have it in writing...BUT we can always send a copy of the correspondence via email REMINDING them of the terms and that usually will end that issue...at least it has worked for me. Ive even had to send an email to a model or two as I approached my own deadline letting them know I may be a few days later than promised...ALL have replied understandingly and appreciated my email...usually comes down to communication...and sometimes the remindment of said communication
Well I thought of ignoring her emails and text messages to my cell but I don't play those games. I also thought of just editing the images quickly and getting over with my part of the agreement. It normally takes me 1.5 to 2 hours (even up to 3 hours sometimes) to edit a photo until I am happy with it. I guess I could do a half ass job in 20 mins per pic and I would be done in 2 hours, just to get her off my back.
I know TF* are trade shoots and not FREE. In this case however I doubt I will use any of the pics in my port, or maybe one at best. Not too happy with the results of the shoot (she came late and we had only 1.5 hours to shoot on location cause the sun was coming down quickly, but that is another story). If I was a jerk I would had just burn the images to a DVD, give it to her and format my CF card and forget about the whole ordeal (after all, only 2 hours lost, and gas to get to the place and drop back her and her little brother to her place.. damn I am too nice).
If it takes you an hour and a half to edit each photo... tell them for a TF shoot they get one fully edited photo, and anything else you edit for yourself. Then give them the option for other photos for an editing fee. If you agree upon those terms before the shoot there won't be any problems.
Dannielle Levan wrote: Sounds like she's trying to take advantage of you.
Well, she is 19 years old and still believes in unicorns and Santa Claus... She was asking me after the shoot if I could do a website for her..for FREE...LMFAO..
I know, and I totally agree with you. I am too much of a nice guy and always have trouble trying to be firm The part about giving edited pics in a TF* shoot has become a bit of trouble for me this year. These shoots are suppose to be fun yet I find myself working late nights to get the images ready within the time I agree, that is starting to feel like a damn job. For paid gigs I have no issues losing sleep if I have to, but for TF*, screw that! I need to seriously re-think my terms and put them in paper again and have that reviewed and signed by the model prior to the day of the shoot.
My advice:
1. Don't let them select the images, I'm never as excited about finishing images that other people select because people tend to select lame images.
2. Don't promise a turnaround time, if anyone ever asks how long I say "anywhere from 1 day to 3 months, but usually closer to 1 day... no promises though!"
3. When a girl asks you "how much longer" I almost always say "it depends on how often I have to stop editing to respond to emails." Then I add a smiley face so that I don't sound like too big of an arse. :-)
After all of this there if you run into someone that is just a pain to work with they just don't get to see me ever again... no skin off my back! :-)
OP, I wish all photographers communicated timelines and details of TF* shoots as clearly as it sounds like you do. As others have said, you should have held out and stuck with the agreement. Unless you have a time machine, it'll just have to be a lesson for the future. In my opinion possible courses of action break down like this:
The Super Pure And Noble Option- stick with the agreement, and deliver the edited images within 2 weeks.
The Decent, Reasonable Option- deliver edited images within a month or so.
The Ehhh, I Can Understand, But It's Still A Little Dirty Option- leave her with just the ones you've sent.
There's nothing wrong with asking. I ask for things all the time, fully expecting the person who I am asking to refuse. After all, if you don't ask, you never know what someone is willing to give you.
However, the people with whom I deal usually have a spine, and refuse many of my requests. If people didn't refuse my requests, I would probably be president of the world right now.
Remember that just because she's young and pretty doesn't mean that you need to accede to her requests. Rather, you have a choice whether to do so. You need to compromise being nice with the realisation that if you give in to people consistently, you will become their doormat. And they will feel not a single qualm when they walk right over you.
I got a call from a model the next morning after a shoot asking if the photos were ready...lol
She was new so I had to explain what was involved
I was a little WTF to myself when she asked though.
It was you giving in that enabled her actions.....you are not helping your own image by proofing all, or letting any old Tom Dick and harry retouch your work. Have a little quality control and backbone. Sure, she was annoying for bugging you, but it was both of your actions that resulted in no one getting the best, and neither of you honoring the original agreement. You'd be the bigger pro if you stuck to your end, rather than give into to an entitled brat. If you think models can be manipulative, you should see how some clients can be! Be the pro and have your standards....now you run the risk of having shitty work out there because who knows who will be retouching your work.
If I could get pictures back from every shoot within two weeks I would be over the hill. Usually I won't contact the photographer for a least a couple weeks after. Heck even if I could get back pictures in one month that's usually good. She seems like a brat to me.
agreed that there's nothing wrong with asking.
but you should firmly tell her that the photos will be done in about ## days/weeks. I also tend not to give a set time frame as i would like the option of delaying it when paying jobs with tight deadlines come up.
Rafael Telles wrote: So I did this TF* shoot Sunday Oct 25th and explained my terms for doing TF* with me to model. I would email her web size (600x400) of all the pre-selected photos from the shoot within 2 days, then she would pick her 5 favourites for me to retouch. Then I would provide her with the 5 edited pics within 2 weeks (although my normal delivery time of fully edited is between 2 and 4 weeks depending on my work load). She agreed so we did the shoot.
I sent her the pre-selected images the next day after the shoot and she sent me her picks 3 days later. Two days later she emailed me asking for the edited pics, and I told her they would be ready in 2 weeks (hence on Sunday Nov 7th). She replied "Wow 2 weeks! That is a long time", although these were the terms we agreed in the first place. I disregarded her email and then got 2 new emails again last Sunday asking for the pics again, and by that time I was upset already, so told her if she was in such a rush as an alternative to editing the pics for her I could give her the 5 Full Res images and that she could find a retoucher to do the editing (seems her boyfriend is good at Photoshop anyways). She accepted to get the High Res images which I sent yesterday. So I thought my problems were over, and 1 hour ago I got a new email from her saying the pics are great but that she still going to wait for me to do the edited pics by Sunday.. WTF!
Anyways, I replied to her I sent her the High Res (thing I have never done before) so I am not editing those ones anymore. I will give her fully edited pics of my choosing at a later date (which could be 2 weeks or 2 months..who knows, cause I don;t work against the clock for my own edits). I am super busy at the office for the next 3 weeks so the last thing I need is worry about editing pics for a TF* shoot.. Plus I am still finishing some paid gig retouches this week.
Am I been a jerk or is this model a persistent little brat? One thing is for sure, I am not shooting her again ever. Is my second shoot with her and the first time she did not bug me this much, and she has been begging me to shoot her for the last 2 months, although I was busy so could not accommodate her earlier.
DVine Studio wrote: If it takes you an hour and a half to edit each photo... tell them for a TF shoot they get one fully edited photo, and anything else you edit for yourself.
This
Jake Garn wrote: My advice:
1. Don't let them select the images, I'm never as excited about finishing images that other people select because people tend to select lame images.
2. Don't promise a turnaround time, if anyone ever asks how long I say "anywhere from 1 day to 3 months, but usually closer to 1 day... no promises though!"
While I know a lot of photogs on here are in it for the art, I have to say this is fairly bad advice for those who are attempting to be professional / get gigs with their work.
Especially the bit about a flexible turn; I always pretend I'm on a paid job when I'm not, and I hold myself to my turnaround times. For one thing, it's caused me to eliminate a lot of churn in my own workflow. I highly recommend providing a date and sticking to it.
my models pester me (squeaky wheel gets the grease and all) but they've all at least been nice about it. on the last gig i wound up using a retoucher to help get things turned around more quickly and to get more images done for the model.
Maybe she was really excited and couldnt wait to see the images.
I get like that too...
as a matter of fact, I'm waiting for images from someone (I have been waiting for a bit) and it is SO hard not to bug the fuck out of him for the images but I know if I do it'll piss him off.....so I've kept quiet until he gets time. I know he is super busy.
Next time have it in writing so you can show it to her when she asks for her images before you are ready to give them to her.
And maybe give her one image right away and tell her you will have the rest within 2 weeks. At least if you give her one, it will hopefully quiet her down.
Rafael Telles wrote: So I did this TF* shoot Sunday Oct 25th and explained my terms for doing TF* with me to model. I would email her web size (600x400) of all the pre-selected photos from the shoot within 2 days, then she would pick her 5 favourites for me to retouch. Then I would provide her with the 5 edited pics within 2 weeks (although my normal delivery time of fully edited is between 2 and 4 weeks depending on my work load). She agreed so we did the shoot.
I sent her the pre-selected images the next day after the shoot and she sent me her picks 3 days later. Two days later she emailed me asking for the edited pics, and I told her they would be ready in 2 weeks (hence on Sunday Nov 7th). She replied "Wow 2 weeks! That is a long time", although these were the terms we agreed in the first place. I disregarded her email and then got 2 new emails again last Sunday asking for the pics again, and by that time I was upset already, so told her if she was in such a rush as an alternative to editing the pics for her I could give her the 5 Full Res images and that she could find a retoucher to do the editing (seems her boyfriend is good at Photoshop anyways). She accepted to get the High Res images which I sent yesterday. So I thought my problems were over, and 1 hour ago I got a new email from her saying the pics are great but that she still going to wait for me to do the edited pics by Sunday.. WTF!
Anyways, I replied to her I sent her the High Res (thing I have never done before) so I am not editing those ones anymore. I will give her fully edited pics of my choosing at a later date (which could be 2 weeks or 2 months..who knows, cause I don;t work against the clock for my own edits). I am super busy at the office for the next 3 weeks so the last thing I need is worry about editing pics for a TF* shoot.. Plus I am still finishing some paid gig retouches this week.
Am I been a jerk or is this model a persistent little brat? One thing is for sure, I am not shooting her again ever. Is my second shoot with her and the first time she did not bug me this much, and she has been begging me to shoot her for the last 2 months, although I was busy so could not accommodate her earlier.
Don't get upset. Just tell her that since you've already passed along the photos for her early she can't expect you to work on them ASAP. I would just write something like that and paste it as a response every time.
The part about giving edited pics in a TF* shoot has become a bit of trouble for me this year. These shoots are suppose to be fun yet I find myself working late nights to get the images ready within the time I agree, that is starting to feel like a damn job. For paid gigs I have no issues losing sleep if I have to, but for TF*, screw that! I need to seriously re-think my terms and put them in paper again and have that reviewed and signed by the model prior to the day of the shoot.
