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This thread was locked on 2010-02-19 09:50:47. Reason: Done. (Hint: if you don't know what you're talking about...don't offer advice.)
Forums > Photography Talk > 17 year model 18 year old escort !!! Search   Reply
first123
Photographer
Lumigraphics
Posts: 32,652
Detroit, Michigan, US


SF glamour wrote:
if I email the model release to her mother and sign it ???
I don't trust them ,just in case they fake the mother's signature !!
VW Photo wrote:
Photographers have been thrown in prison for being that dumb.  If your business is so broke that you can't pass up a job that smells fishy or your a hobbyist that desperate to get a shoot do us all a favor and quit.   Note: I'm choosing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't just some perv who is desperate to shoot a 17 girl without adult supervision or a model agency representative.

Cheers

Do you have a news article or court citation for any photographer who has been thrown in jail because a minor model has presented a forged release? If not, please don't make bogus and inflammatory claims.

And lots of perfectly respectable photographers shoot pictures of 17 year olds. Wanting to do age-appropriate images and wondering about the legalities of a model release are both different issues and not indicators of being "some perv."

roll

Feb 18 10 09:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SF glamour
Posts: 324
South San Francisco, California, US


VW Photo wrote:

Photographers have been thrown in prison for being that dumb.  If your business is so broke that you can't pass up a job that smells fishy or your a hobbyist that desperate to get a shoot do us all a favor and quit.   Note: I'm choosing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't just some perv who is desperate to shoot a 17 girl without adult supervision or a model agency representative.

You know sometimes this forum just plain gets creepy.

Cheers

Feb 18 10 10:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SF glamour
Posts: 324
South San Francisco, California, US


SF glamour wrote:

thank you very much !!!

Feb 18 10 10:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TA Craft Photography
Posts: 2,873
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


MOPP wrote:
Her friend is not a legal gaurdian in any way...  Sorry, but Mommy has to sign the 17 year old's release, or there is no shoot.

+1

Feb 18 10 11:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bluestill Photography
Posts: 1,797
Seattle, Washington, US


MOPP wrote:
Her friend is not a legal gaurdian in any way...  Sorry, but Mommy has to sign the 17 year old's release, or there is no shoot.

I saw a toddler fall in a puddle of mud today at the park. It was the funniest thing you ever saw. However the babysitter watching the kid, was only 18 years old so I refused to take the photo. The toddler began to cry.

Feb 18 10 11:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bluestill Photography
Posts: 1,797
Seattle, Washington, US


Has a camera become weapon of mass destruction? Reading some of the replies in this thread do in fact make photography seem creepy. The opinions of so many with very little knowledge of law would probably suggest there should be warning labels placed on all camera gear, to say the least about aiming a lens at almost anyone. While we are at it, let's put warning labels on cellphones with cameras, as I am quite sure from just peeping in Face Book or Myspace, that there are some serious violators there. And while we're at it, let's round up wedding and event photographers. All I know is that there is an awful lot of legal advice being slung around in this thread, and I am willing to bet that 99.9 percent of it is incorrect and based off of hearsay and personal opinion. Relax, and ask yourself what is wrong with the situation? As for the OP, how did it come about that the 17 year old learned that you were a photographer and shoot fashion? You would do yourself a huge favor by consulting a lawyer for advice rather than consulting a forum because not one of these replies will hold up in a court of law if you are that concerned about the legality of the matter.
Feb 19 10 12:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
VW Photo
Posts: 383
Fremont, Nebraska, US


You know what.  I am going to personally apologize.  I am sorry and was out of line with my previous comment. It was unfair and really had nothing to do with you or your situation.  I was reacting to incidents in my area that unfortunately have happen more than once.  Again, I am sorry and my previous post was completely out of bounds. 

With the bad eggs in my area I am not willing to be in a situation that can remotely misunderstood by a casual observer.  I cringe when I read about others who deal with minors without protecting themselves.

The bad eggs are real and bring negativity to our profession

Apologies to SF glamour.

if you want to know what I was really wigging over it was this guy
http://www.1011now.com/news/headlines/82988057.html

which has nothing remotely to do with SF glamour.
Feb 19 10 12:17 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MYS Britt
Posts: 10,720
San Diego, California, US


Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
Asking for trouble . . . !

yup

Feb 19 10 12:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 23,842
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


SF glamour wrote:
My question is can an 18 year old friend sign a model release taking the place of a parent not present ???
this 17 year old girl want's to shoot some fashion and headshots with me,her parents work and can not attend the photoshoot, an 18 year old friend want's to come with her and shoot some pictures too!!!
legally can her friend sign a model release instead of one of her parents ???

Weird, I had a situation where the model was 18 and she brought with a 17 year old friend...



that friend is my current avatar.


hmm

Feb 19 10 12:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Merlinpix
Posts: 7,098
Farmingdale, New York, US


Next!
Feb 19 10 01:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
All Yours Photography
Posts: 2,234
Toledo, Ohio, US


SF glamour wrote:
if I email the model release to her mother and sign it ???
I don't trust them ,just in case they fake the mother's signature !!

If you really want to shoot with this girl and it's not possible to meet with the parents, have them sign and notarize the release.

Feb 19 10 01:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bluestill Photography
Posts: 1,797
Seattle, Washington, US


Photo Three Photography wrote:
The key here ... she is seventeen, no mommy , no daddy...NO SHOOT. NOW FOR THE EXCEPTION TO THAT RULE...IF YOU WANT TO SHOOT HER THAT BAD THEN DRIVE OVER TO THEIR HOUSE AND HAVE THEM SIGN THE REALESE IN FRONT OF YOU. I would also type something up and have them sign that the 18 year old would be acting as their eyes and ears...JUST COVER YOUR AZZ

LOL... for a single photoshoot? And you're serious aren't you? LOL.

Feb 19 10 02:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


SF glamour wrote:
if I email the model release to her mother and sign it ???
I don't trust them ,just in case they fake the mother's signature !!
VW Photo wrote:
Photographers have been thrown in prison for being that dumb.

this kind of nonsensical statement (bullshit) doesn't help anyone.

when you make such a ridiculous statement without citation, be prepared for it to follow you around like a bad stink or degrading nickname you got in elementary school.

Feb 19 10 05:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan Lee Photo
Posts: 2,978
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


MOPP wrote:
Her friend is not a legal gaurdian in any way...  Sorry, but Mommy has to sign the 17 year old's release, or there is no shoot.

No you can still shoot.

Yo only need a release for commercial or advertising purposes, regardless of age.

Feb 19 10 05:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


MOPP wrote:
Her friend is not a legal gaurdian in any way...  Sorry, but Mommy has to sign the 17 year old's release, or there is no shoot.
Dan Lee Photo wrote:
No you can still shoot. Yo only need a release for commercial or advertising purposes, regardless of age.

in the USA, states have different laws regarding releases. in california for example, if you are a pro photog, it could be interpreted that any exhibition of the images is commercial use, thus requiring a release. but all the states are different.

for the most part, you don't really need one...personally, i don't ever need a release and if i did, i would compensate the model for it.

Feb 19 10 05:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ARTFORMS
Posts: 565
Greenville, South Carolina, US


I know of a photographer that was shooting pictures with an 11 year old model. There wasn't any parent or guardian present during the shoot and someone called the sherriffs department on him. Something you might want to avoid during your shoot with the 17 year old girl.

Or.
Put it this way. You can do anything illegal that you want to do. It's just a matter of whether you get caught or not. And maybe a matter of how desperate you might be to shoot with this particular 17 year old minor.
Feb 19 10 05:51 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Belindaxox
Posts: 1
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


SF glamour wrote:
I think not shooting with her would be the best !!

You sound like you're trying to come across like you don't care if you shoot her or not, but you really do want to don't you?

IMO it also sounds to me like you want to get real close to this girl and you know the obvious answer to your question. 
Yet you're hoping in some way someone will answer it in a way that you like.

Get the parent's signature, get a parent to escort or a family member, not a friend.

This sounds like you're asking for trouble, be careful.

Orrr, don't shoot her at all.

Feb 19 10 06:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


ARTFORMS wrote:
I know of a photographer that was shooting pictures with an 11 year old model. There wasn't any parent or guardian present during the shoot and someone called the sherriffs department on him. Something you might want to avoid during your shoot with the 17 year old girl.

really?...that same thing happened to me while i was shooting a 25 year old...age has nothing to do with it...

cop: we have a report that you are shooting an underage girl (this was at the beach)
me: yeah and? as a law enforcement officer i am sure you told the person making the complaint that theres nothing illegal about me doing that.....right?
cop: let me see your ID
me: sure (hands him my DL)
cop: do you have a permit to shoot here?
me: it's a state park , i dont need one unless i am inhibiting the general public...but you knew that...right?
cop: have a good day (he leaves)

Feb 19 10 06:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 7,491
Imperial, California, US


Oh,, Oh,, Oh,, Helllllll No!!!!! ;-))))))
Feb 19 10 06:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Richard Karlsen
Posts: 1,757
Gloversville, New York, US


Lumigraphics wrote:
I worked for the Federal Gov't for fifteen years and the lasting lesson was ALWAYS cover your ass.

A comment that finally makes sense!  What the OP needs to worry about is not having a model release to publish the images, it is how the law relates to DEALING WITH A MINOR, which can vary greatly State to State.

Feb 19 10 06:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
stevenD_Photography
Posts: 89
Garden Grove, California, US


I don't EVER shoot ANYONE under 18 unless a Parent is AT the Shoot, period, there are tons of women out there, why risk your business over shooting a minor?

Any 17 year old is LESS than one year away from being 18, my advise is to just WAIT!!!
Feb 19 10 06:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


stevenD wrote:
I don't EVER shoot ANYONE under 18 unless a Parent is AT the Shoot, period, there are tons of women out there, why risk your business over shooting a minor?

Any 17 year old is LESS than one year away from being 18, my advise is to just WAIT!!!

thats some fucked up paranoia...you have my sympathy...

Feb 19 10 06:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DaveDavis
Posts: 4,769
Roseville, California, US


Hector, Don't Do It!!

In Calif. its a Parent or Legal Guardian.. I'm not sure is an 18 year old brother or sister could sign, but I do know a Friend may not!!

Dave
Dave Davis Photography
Feb 19 10 09:08 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 53,733
Buena Park, California, US


SF glamour wrote:
if I email the model release to her mother and sign it ???
I don't trust them ,just in case they fake the mother's signature !!

If you don't trust the model, why do you want to her?

Feb 19 10 09:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bluestill Photography
Posts: 1,797
Seattle, Washington, US


Doug Swinskey wrote:

thats some fucked up paranoia...you have my sympathy...

+1000. I cannot think of any state where it is a crime to shoot someone's photo unless it is done in a lewd or perverted way. I just think it's ridiculous that all these people walk around demanding a release be signed everytime they take their camera's out, and that's fine, but why can't they leave their paranoya in the camera bag or at home. Does anyone have a photo in their possession without a release being signed? I remember when I was a kid, a man (or sometimes a woman) would come to my school, have everyone in the class stand on a line, and shoot our photos. Then we will all stand together and have our photo taken, and guess what? We never signed a thing. I wonder where that nice man and woman is serving time in prison so I can go visit and say thank you.

Feb 19 10 09:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bluestill Photography
Posts: 1,797
Seattle, Washington, US


stevenD wrote:
I don't EVER shoot ANYONE under 18 unless a Parent is AT the Shoot, period, there are tons of women out there, why risk your business over shooting a minor?

Any 17 year old is LESS than one year away from being 18, my advise is to just WAIT!!!

I was shooting in a hair salon, and this little girl wanted to have her photo taken (she also wanted to know how I made the lights flash like that). She was there with her older sister, age 14. I shot the photo, and sent a copy to her mom and a funny thing happened; her mom said "WOW I love it". Did I mention that I didn't ask her mom for a release, nor did the police kick in my door in the middle of the night.
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/Bluestill/BSP_0039.jpg

Feb 19 10 09:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PYPI FASHION
Posts: 36,332
San Francisco, California, US


VW Photo wrote:

Photographers have been thrown in prison for being that dumb.  If your business is so broke that you can't pass up a job that smells fishy or your a hobbyist that desperate to get a shoot do us all a favor and quit.   Note: I'm choosing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't just some perv who is desperate to shoot a 17 girl without adult supervision or a model agency representative.

You know sometimes this forum just plain gets creepy.

Cheers

17 year old model. No model release. No parents present. No prison time. Imagine that.

http://modelmayhm-2.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/080416/22/4806b9555979d_m.jpg

Feb 19 10 09:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rebel Photo
Posts: 11,446
Florence, South Carolina, US


PYPI FASHION wrote:
17 year old model. No model release. No parents present. No prison time. Imagine that.

http://modelmayhm-2.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/080416/22/4806b9555979d_m.jpg

yeah..I think I have a couple of the same.

This thread has got to be one of the worst minor debates in MM history. Should be locked and a few people flogged for their Spanish Inquisition attitude and legal advice-not to mention the puritans with evil thoughts. big_smile

Feb 19 10 09:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10,520
Gatineau, Quebec, Canada


people keep confusing prison and model releases.  you can have a perfectly valid model release signed by a parent and go to prison for shooting child porn.
A model release simply gives to permission to use the images you took for the purposes the release grants.  Thats it thats all.  its not a get-out-of-jail-free card.  its not a  GO TO JAIL card either.
no document in the world protects you from criminal prosecution if what you are doing is a crime.  If its not a crime  you dont need the document to protect you from the police.  You just need it for whatever civil purpose the document serves.
Feb 19 10 09:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TNTStudios
Posts: 278
Piqua, Ohio, US


Stay away from the situation.
Feb 19 10 09:45 am  Link  Quote 
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