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first1234
Photographer
GD Whalen
Posts: 1,880
Asheville, North Carolina, US


Editing: Sorting photos. Dividing the "keepers" from the others.
Post-processing : manipulating and fine-tuning an image.



This
May 07 11 12:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeff Fiore
Posts: 9,208
Pelham, New York, US


Ruben Vasquez wrote:

Well damn! Where do I fit in? I don't care but I don't matter either... hmm

We don't care big_smile

May 07 11 12:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeff Fiore
Posts: 9,208
Pelham, New York, US


A-M-P wrote:
But since some photographers edit and retouch it's nice to know the diference and explain to your customer what it is included in depth so they know exactly what they are getting.

a photographer wouldn't want a client to receive edited images unretouched if the client expected retouched photos. So it's good to be very clear in your contract and ask exactly what is that they want and explain exactly what they are getting.

If a client says to me "here are my picks, I also want therm edited" I know the client means retouched.

If a model says she wants edited photos, I know she means retouched.

It doesn't matter which word they use, I know what they want.

May 07 11 12:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
kensee
Posts: 174
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Filtering:  "Sorting photos. Dividing the "keepers" from the others."

Thereby raising more ambiguity in terms employed.  Though, "editing" is far more ambiguous especially when within the same language the word is used for modifying, as in retouching, both source code and documents/text.  Filtering is separation of components.

Too many grasp for precision where it doesn't exist.

Being a 'retoucher' is not sufficiently specialized to allow for fixed jargon.  The discipline blends far too much into the rest of society.
May 07 11 12:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
plutonic
Posts: 100
Chicago, Illinois, US


good points all around...
May 07 11 12:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
PixelPurfect
Posts: 57
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


Retouching does a body good...  smile
May 07 11 01:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ruben Vasquez
Posts: 3,097
Puyallup, Washington, US


Jeff Fiore wrote:

We don't care big_smile

lol Ahh thanks man! big_smile

May 07 11 08:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul Dempsey
Posts: 673
Atlantic City, New Jersey, US


photoimager wrote:

I didn't realise that Adobe were the font of wisdom and knowledge in photography, particularly since photography has been around for more than a century before Adobe.

we're talking about digital photography which has not been around for more than a century.
If you are using Adobe Photoshop to  edit/retouch then Yes, indeed it IS the "font of wisdom"

May 07 11 08:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
9stitches
Posts: 476
Los Angeles, California, US


edit v. to prepare (written material) for publication by correcting, condensing, or otherwise modifying it

Anyone who tells you different is a lying communist infidel. String them up by their uvulas. Burn down their homes.

Oh, unless they work in a field other than the written word, for example, photographers might use the word to describe the act of culling unwanted images (editing a shoot) and photo retouchers might use it to describe the process of editing an image in an image editor such as Photoshop.

So in other words, if you're a photographer who doesn't understand that "edit" means something different to someone who works in a different field from you (like retouching) it's like refusing to concede that "stop" means something different to train engineers...
May 09 11 08:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fred Greissing
Posts: 6,271
Los Angeles, California, US


As far as photography goes...

Editing:
Making the selection of which shots to use and in what order.

Retouching:
Modifying images to embellish them

In between I would put the term process

Processing:
Doing routine adjustments such as contrast, brightness, sharpness, conversion to black and white etc. Generally fine tuning.
May 09 11 08:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
leeabrio
Posts: 1
Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei-Muara, Brunei


IMHO
editing- i think they use this more on editorial photo's.?
while retouching- sounds like a term used by make up artist?

i still like to use the word "tweaking" on my photos. smile.
May 10 11 02:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Santiago Belizon
Posts: 59
London, England, United Kingdom


Editing: Modifying the overall picture. Changes affect all.
Retouching: modifying areas
May 10 11 03:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Teila K Day Photography
Posts: 1,929
Richmond, Indiana, US


Paul Byun wrote:
Many people misuse these terms and get them all mixed up. Some may argue that these two terms mean the same thing, however they are not the same thing.

The difference between these terms may be subjective or objective. I will leave that up for you to decide.

In my knowledge, editing is a process of making a selection and organizing a set of photographs. It has nothing to do with actual manipulation that happens in Photoshop. Retouching is a correct term to describe the process of enhancing an image . Anywhere from simple color adjustments to complex compositing.

What do you guys think these terms mean?

If you made changes to it, then you've edited it; whether you've done it on a piece of paper or in Photoshop is simply irrelevant.

I think the term re-touching is ridiculous, especially when the file has never been "touched" or edited in the first place... akin to having a rebirth before you're ever born.

Best of the week to you all!

May 10 11 03:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andy Rodriguez Photo
Posts: 116
Huntington Beach, California, US


What does it matter?
May 10 11 05:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Paul Byun wrote:
Many people misuse these terms and get them all mixed up.

This unsupported assertion started another mistaken debate with no end, no winners, and no losers.

Many people use the terms differently, depending on where and how they work. To say that one use or another is a "misuse" is gratuitously false.

May 10 11 05:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Natalia_Taffarel wrote:
It doesn't really matters

Ma Kettle got it right on Page 1. All the rest was wasted words.

May 10 11 05:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
StudioCMC
Posts: 569
Bear, Delaware, US


The difference is ya just charge more.. wink
May 10 11 05:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Las Vegas Studios
Posts: 33
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


K Retouching wrote:
I think it really just depends on your definition of the words, which seems to be relative. Words can have many different meanings so it's understandable when people get them mixed up or confused.

If it has been or could be a problem, just make sure to define what you mean when you talk about editing/retouching on your websites.

Those who say it doesn't matter must not deal with many clients. I think most important is to make sure your clients understand what YOUR definition of Editing and Retouching are...

My definitions:
Editing is a process of making a selection and organizing a set of photographs and includes basic cropping, exposure, color, contrast, and density control, sharpening and softening and minor skin smoothing processes. All of our images included basic editing.  We do not provide un-edited images to clients.

Retouching is the the removal of objects, reshaping, changing colors, adding or removing of highlights, shadows, and other special effects, or anything that requires using Photoshop. Retouching is billed at standard hourly rate.

Jan 13 13 07:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ed W Photography nudes
Posts: 10
Savannah, Georgia, US


"Edit" covers it for me.......
Jan 13 13 07:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KA Style
Posts: 1,577
Syracuse, New York, US


Holy thread from the dead! lol

I use whatever term my clients understand.. But edit is the selection process to me. I use the term post production mostly, as this includes edit/correct/retouch.
Jan 13 13 08:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Justin Suyama
Posts: 113
Seattle, Washington, US


Trancedelic Retouching wrote:
Edit: to alter, adapt, or refine especially to bring about conformity to a standard or to suit a particular purpose.

Isn't that what retouching is?  Meh, just a lot of pretty words that all pretty much mean the same thing.

The definition you choose is from Merriam Websters dictionary. This is from the Oxford American (though you can view a number of dictionaries to compare):

Edit: is to Choose material (for a movie, radio or television) and arrange it to form a coherent whole. - Oxford American, 2001

Retouch: improve or repair (a painting, a photograph, makeup, etc) by making slight additions or alterations. - Oxford American, 2001

Obviously on the retouch thing, we are able to do more NOW with digital manipulation than we were in the darkroom. So it may not be "slight" but they are still alterations no matter how big or small, how much or how little.

If you look at these dictionaries, online or written, the examples given following the word edit is pertaining to written words, MOTION pictures, songs, etc.

Retouch is always pertaining to photographs, paintings, etc.

Editing therefore is a specific industry term that doesn't apply to photography EXCEPT where it is being done with the removal or addition process (separating the keepers from the duds).

Retouch therefore is the proper term by definition for what we do when we alter our photographs. I think the confusion came outside of these respective industries and the less than knowledgeable people inside the industries have been making them blur and gray into the same thing. They are not however.

Jan 13 13 09:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KMP
Posts: 4,705
Houston, Texas, US


KA Style wrote:
Holy thread from the dead! lol

I use whatever term my clients understand.. But edit is the selection process to me. I use the term post production mostly, as this includes edit/correct/retouch.

This is my attitude.. I know that many will say either to mean both.. which is confusing..

When talking to my clients..  I clarify that "editing" is the selection stage..
I call anything after that. Post production...which includes basic color, contrast, saturation, color space settings along with retouching, masking, composing multiple images.....etc.

In the end.. as long as the person you're taking understands how you define the terms.. .you're good..

Jan 13 13 09:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
kevjohn Photography
Posts: 38
Tallahassee, Florida, US


MisterC wrote:

Shock value is lame. It's a cheap way to get attention.

But yes, potato, potauto, I don't really care. Cept "retouch" sounds odd to me.

Said the guy with the shocking (to some) profile pic.

FWIW: To me, editing is anything I do to a photo after I've snapped the shutter button. Retouching is when I touch myself again after I've already touched myself. big_smile

Jan 13 13 10:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KA Style
Posts: 1,577
Syracuse, New York, US


KevinMcGowanPhotography wrote:
This is my attitude.. I know that many will say either to mean both.. which is confusing..

When talking to my clients..  I clarify that "editing" is the selection stage..
I call anything after that. Post production...which includes basic color, contrast, saturation, color space settings along with retouching, masking, composing multiple images.....etc.

In the end.. as long as the person you're taking understands how you define the terms.. .you're good..

Yea, I even have a bit of info on my FAQs page. Most everyday people say retouch or edit. lol All they know is they get a completed product from me, no extra for "editing".

Jan 13 13 09:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul Dempsey
Posts: 673
Atlantic City, New Jersey, US


http://www.pauldempseyphoto.com/photoshop.jpg
Jan 14 13 06:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KMP
Posts: 4,705
Houston, Texas, US


LOL that's an advertising slogan and has nothing to do with truth and everything to do with saying whatever they can to position their product.. smile

Paul Dempsey wrote:
http://www.pauldempseyphoto.com/photoshop.jpg

Jan 18 13 06:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Pierre Gussman
Posts: 165
San Francisco, California, US


Natalia_Taffarel wrote:
It doesn't really matters

^

Jan 18 13 02:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PhotoPower
Posts: 1,363
Elmsdale, Nova Scotia, Canada


marknmanna wrote:
Editing: Sorting photos. Dividing the "keepers" from the others.
Post-processing : manipulating and fine-tuning an image.

Yes: I have to agree with Mark here. Most people with any experience at all will understand what "post" or retouching means. Editing is straightening the horizon, basic cropping perhaps ... while "post" or retouching takes us into PhotoShop for blemishes, skin smoothing, fixing under eyes, that sort of thing??

Jan 18 13 03:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


When you guys get this question settled, I hope you'll turn your attention to "six" versus "half-dozen." Boy, I can never get that one straight.
Jan 18 13 03:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PhotoPower
Posts: 1,363
Elmsdale, Nova Scotia, Canada


KevinMcGowanPhotography wrote:
LOL that's an advertising slogan and has nothing to do with truth and everything to do with saying whatever they can to position their product.. smile


Elements 9 is basically PhotoShop 4 for $90 - just sayin.

Jan 18 13 03:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wolfy4u
Posts: 1,083
Grand Junction, Colorado, US


Words like implied, editing, flaking, etc are just words in
Mayhemeze, the language of this site.

We can debate things until the world ends, but if you want
to communicate with many people on this site, you must speak Mayhemeze or you'll constantly be misunderstood.

You'll have to learn to not let the facts get in the way of success.
Jan 18 13 03:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Glamour by Glenn
Posts: 938
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Does anyone know what the term pedantic means? big_smile
Jan 18 13 03:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


For those of you so intent on narrowing and keeping the definition of "editing" so "pure" that it doesn't include image-editing, I hope a client never asks you to "edit the image of that implied nude model."

Your heads might just explode.

This is a really neat argument, but is there one person here who doesn't understand or concede that image editing involves modifying (i.e. changing) an image in some way?

Let's argue the difference between post-processing and digital manipulation now too.
Jan 18 13 03:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


Glenn WC wrote:
Does anyone know what the term pedantic means? big_smile

I bet the OP doesn't.

Jan 18 13 03:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Don Garrett
Posts: 4,295
Escondido, California, US


It's an issue that some like to waste their own, and other's time with.
-Don
Jan 18 13 03:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sidney_k
Posts: 874
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Paul Byun wrote:
Many people misuse these terms and get them all mixed up. Some may argue that these two terms mean the same thing, however they are not the same thing.

The difference between these terms may be subjective or objective. I will leave that up for you to decide.

In my knowledge, editing is a process of making a selection and organizing a set of photographs. It has nothing to do with actual manipulation that happens in Photoshop. Retouching is a correct term to describe the process of enhancing an image . Anywhere from simple color adjustments to complex compositing.

What do you guys think these terms mean?

Getting back to the OP's question.

If you are a photographer, you photograph.
If you are an editor, you edit.
If you are a retoucher, you retouch.
That is all that matters today.
All terms used in between, nowadays, are purely cosmetic, and are used as fashion dictates.
Unfortunately...

Jan 18 13 04:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Carioca wrote:
Getting back to the OP's question.

It wasn't a question, it was an arbitrary declaration.

Paul Byun wrote:
Some may argue that these two terms mean the same thing, however they are not the same thing.

Jan 18 13 04:37 pm  Link  Quote 
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