A-M-P wrote: But since some photographers edit and retouch it's nice to know the diference and explain to your customer what it is included in depth so they know exactly what they are getting.
a photographer wouldn't want a client to receive edited images unretouched if the client expected retouched photos. So it's good to be very clear in your contract and ask exactly what is that they want and explain exactly what they are getting.
If a client says to me "here are my picks, I also want therm edited" I know the client means retouched.
If a model says she wants edited photos, I know she means retouched.
It doesn't matter which word they use, I know what they want.
Filtering: "Sorting photos. Dividing the "keepers" from the others."
Thereby raising more ambiguity in terms employed. Though, "editing" is far more ambiguous especially when within the same language the word is used for modifying, as in retouching, both source code and documents/text. Filtering is separation of components.
Too many grasp for precision where it doesn't exist.
Being a 'retoucher' is not sufficiently specialized to allow for fixed jargon. The discipline blends far too much into the rest of society.
Paul Dempsey
Posts: 660
Atlantic City, New Jersey, US
photoimager wrote:
I didn't realise that Adobe were the font of wisdom and knowledge in photography, particularly since photography has been around for more than a century before Adobe.
we're talking about digital photography which has not been around for more than a century.
If you are using Adobe Photoshop to edit/retouch then Yes, indeed it IS the "font of wisdom"
edit v. to prepare (written material) for publication by correcting, condensing, or otherwise modifying it
Anyone who tells you different is a lying communist infidel. String them up by their uvulas. Burn down their homes.
Oh, unless they work in a field other than the written word, for example, photographers might use the word to describe the act of culling unwanted images (editing a shoot) and photo retouchers might use it to describe the process of editing an image in an image editor such as Photoshop.
So in other words, if you're a photographer who doesn't understand that "edit" means something different to someone who works in a different field from you (like retouching) it's like refusing to concede that "stop" means something different to train engineers...
Paul Byun wrote: Many people misuse these terms and get them all mixed up. Some may argue that these two terms mean the same thing, however they are not the same thing.
The difference between these terms may be subjective or objective. I will leave that up for you to decide.
In my knowledge, editing is a process of making a selection and organizing a set of photographs. It has nothing to do with actual manipulation that happens in Photoshop. Retouching is a correct term to describe the process of enhancing an image . Anywhere from simple color adjustments to complex compositing.
What do you guys think these terms mean?
If you made changes to it, then you've edited it; whether you've done it on a piece of paper or in Photoshop is simply irrelevant.
I think the term re-touching is ridiculous, especially when the file has never been "touched" or edited in the first place... akin to having a rebirth before you're ever born.
K Retouching wrote: I think it really just depends on your definition of the words, which seems to be relative. Words can have many different meanings so it's understandable when people get them mixed up or confused.
If it has been or could be a problem, just make sure to define what you mean when you talk about editing/retouching on your websites.
Those who say it doesn't matter must not deal with many clients. I think most important is to make sure your clients understand what YOUR definition of Editing and Retouching are...
My definitions:
Editing is a process of making a selection and organizing a set of photographs and includes basic cropping, exposure, color, contrast, and density control, sharpening and softening and minor skin smoothing processes. All of our images included basic editing. We do not provide un-edited images to clients.
Retouching is the the removal of objects, reshaping, changing colors, adding or removing of highlights, shadows, and other special effects, or anything that requires using Photoshop. Retouching is billed at standard hourly rate.
I use whatever term my clients understand.. But edit is the selection process to me. I use the term post production mostly, as this includes edit/correct/retouch.
Trancedelic Retouching wrote: Edit: to alter, adapt, or refine especially to bring about conformity to a standard or to suit a particular purpose.
Isn't that what retouching is? Meh, just a lot of pretty words that all pretty much mean the same thing.
The definition you choose is from Merriam Websters dictionary. This is from the Oxford American (though you can view a number of dictionaries to compare):
Edit: is to Choose material (for a movie, radio or television) and arrange it to form a coherent whole. - Oxford American, 2001
Retouch: improve or repair (a painting, a photograph, makeup, etc) by making slight additions or alterations. - Oxford American, 2001
Obviously on the retouch thing, we are able to do more NOW with digital manipulation than we were in the darkroom. So it may not be "slight" but they are still alterations no matter how big or small, how much or how little.
If you look at these dictionaries, online or written, the examples given following the word edit is pertaining to written words, MOTION pictures, songs, etc.
Retouch is always pertaining to photographs, paintings, etc.
Editing therefore is a specific industry term that doesn't apply to photography EXCEPT where it is being done with the removal or addition process (separating the keepers from the duds).
Retouch therefore is the proper term by definition for what we do when we alter our photographs. I think the confusion came outside of these respective industries and the less than knowledgeable people inside the industries have been making them blur and gray into the same thing. They are not however.
I use whatever term my clients understand.. But edit is the selection process to me. I use the term post production mostly, as this includes edit/correct/retouch.
This is my attitude.. I know that many will say either to mean both.. which is confusing..
When talking to my clients.. I clarify that "editing" is the selection stage..
I call anything after that. Post production...which includes basic color, contrast, saturation, color space settings along with retouching, masking, composing multiple images.....etc.
In the end.. as long as the person you're taking understands how you define the terms.. .you're good..
Shock value is lame. It's a cheap way to get attention.
But yes, potato, potauto, I don't really care. Cept "retouch" sounds odd to me.
Said the guy with the shocking (to some) profile pic.
FWIW: To me, editing is anything I do to a photo after I've snapped the shutter button. Retouching is when I touch myself again after I've already touched myself.
KevinMcGowanPhotography wrote: This is my attitude.. I know that many will say either to mean both.. which is confusing..
When talking to my clients.. I clarify that "editing" is the selection stage..
I call anything after that. Post production...which includes basic color, contrast, saturation, color space settings along with retouching, masking, composing multiple images.....etc.
In the end.. as long as the person you're taking understands how you define the terms.. .you're good..
Yea, I even have a bit of info on my FAQs page. Most everyday people say retouch or edit. lol All they know is they get a completed product from me, no extra for "editing".
PhotoPower
Posts: 1,312
Elmsdale, Nova Scotia, Canada
marknmanna wrote: Editing: Sorting photos. Dividing the "keepers" from the others.
Post-processing : manipulating and fine-tuning an image.
Yes: I have to agree with Mark here. Most people with any experience at all will understand what "post" or retouching means. Editing is straightening the horizon, basic cropping perhaps ... while "post" or retouching takes us into PhotoShop for blemishes, skin smoothing, fixing under eyes, that sort of thing??
PhotoPower
Posts: 1,312
Elmsdale, Nova Scotia, Canada
KevinMcGowanPhotography wrote: LOL that's an advertising slogan and has nothing to do with truth and everything to do with saying whatever they can to position their product..
Elements 9 is basically PhotoShop 4 for $90 - just sayin.
Words like implied, editing, flaking, etc are just words in
Mayhemeze, the language of this site.
We can debate things until the world ends, but if you want
to communicate with many people on this site, you must speak Mayhemeze or you'll constantly be misunderstood.
You'll have to learn to not let the facts get in the way of success.
For those of you so intent on narrowing and keeping the definition of "editing" so "pure" that it doesn't include image-editing, I hope a client never asks you to "edit the image of that implied nude model."
Your heads might just explode.
This is a really neat argument, but is there one person here who doesn't understand or concede that image editing involves modifying (i.e. changing) an image in some way?
Let's argue the difference between post-processing and digital manipulation now too.
Paul Byun wrote: Many people misuse these terms and get them all mixed up. Some may argue that these two terms mean the same thing, however they are not the same thing.
The difference between these terms may be subjective or objective. I will leave that up for you to decide.
In my knowledge, editing is a process of making a selection and organizing a set of photographs. It has nothing to do with actual manipulation that happens in Photoshop. Retouching is a correct term to describe the process of enhancing an image . Anywhere from simple color adjustments to complex compositing.
What do you guys think these terms mean?
Getting back to the OP's question.
If you are a photographer, you photograph.
If you are an editor, you edit.
If you are a retoucher, you retouch.
That is all that matters today.
All terms used in between, nowadays, are purely cosmetic, and are used as fashion dictates.
Unfortunately...
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