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Model
Anzhelika Yakimenko
Posts: 540
Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, US


I can assure the there is more money in dancing than modelling.  However, not all people are the same.  In general, the strippers(lets call them dancers) I have known were flakes - not reliable to show up on time.   As a model, I cant stand that.   Having said that, let me recognize that there ARE conscientious, hard-working, non-drugger, serious, reliable strippers out there, just not very many.
Nov 17 10 10:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EnlightendedPhotography
Posts: 816
Eugene, Oregon, US


Gneralizations don't help and aren't true - I have worked with first time models and strippers over 40 plus years.  strippers usually have very well toned bodies and have natural movements - having said this, some have two left feet.  Personality and desire are more important and provide, for me, the best results.
Nov 17 10 10:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Webspinner
Posts: 6,927
Chicago, Illinois, US


wow...another ignorant sexist pig. There are 'strippers' who are great artists of emotion...they make great models. There are crappy strippers who are good models, and a LOT of my fave erotic models dont like a large audience so would probably SUCK as strippers.
The above paragraph needed more than a lifetime of prejudiced thought without a rang of experience to create.

When people say offensive things I prioritize then and do the selective forgetting on most especially if its a client.
Nov 17 10 10:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rdallasPhotography
Posts: 965
Norristown, Pennsylvania, US


D T Masters wrote:
I was under the impression that dancers, such as ballet, make excellent models because they know how to pose their bodies.

I would also be interested in knowing what he considers a "stripper". I do take a lot of pictures of belly dancers, which some people might consider in the same light, and I do know that some of them are models as well.

So, essentially........I do not agree with his opinion.

Based on his "stuffing money in their pants" comment I assume it's Gentlemen club type dancers. They would include nude dancers, topless dancers and bikini dancers.

Nov 17 10 10:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MerrillMedia
Posts: 8,374
New Orleans, Louisiana, US


I had someone in my life for about five years who was a stripper. She was concientious and dependable. She put herself through 7 years of college/grad school, while raising a young child by herself. She also paid some of her parents bills on a pretty regular basis. She did not end up like many, who party the money away, fail to develop a career path and end up being in their 30s, trying to compete against much younger girls and unable to make enough money to live outside the strip game. In fact, she landed a decent job very soon after completing school, left the game and never looked back.

Many strippers are complete losers, but not all. I would also compare the morals of quite a few strippers that I have known, against those of the huge number of bums that I have run across in the "straight business world." There is a cliche' statement that says, "show me a person in a $1,500 business suit and a pair of $800 shoes and I'll show you someone, who can rip you off faster and for more money than you ever imagined." Like many cliche's, this is a statement of absolute truth.

One more thing - I would stack her up against a large percentage of models on this web site for dependability and having a clue, any day of the week.
Nov 17 10 10:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
976 Photography
Posts: 4,599
Shreveport, Louisiana, US


Anzhelika Yakimenko wrote:
In general, the strippers(lets call them dancers) I have known were flakes - not reliable to show up on time.   As a model, I cant stand that.   Having said that, let me recognize that there ARE conscientious, hard-working, non-drugger, serious, reliable strippers out there, just not very many.

I can agree with that 100%

My friend... love her to death but... if I want her to be somewhere, I have to tell her to be there at least 3 hours before the time I actually want her there. Then she's usually only 30 mins late. (from the actual time)

Nov 17 10 10:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rdallasPhotography
Posts: 965
Norristown, Pennsylvania, US


PashaPhoto wrote:
i love these threads...

i'm pretty sure there are only two guys in Pa that run workshops... one, i know, LOVES strippers... now i know how the other one feels smile

If you know okay. Just remember I didn't mention his name! smile

Nov 17 10 10:34 am  Link  Quote 
Model
xxmiss sinful
Posts: 6
Knoxville, Tennessee, US


Man that's crazy.I, myself am an ex 'exotic dancer' and Do not fit that stereotype of the common 'stripper' although I do know many girls that do.I am great to work with and unique and beautiful and also super professional.I was talent scouted and told
Nov 17 10 10:35 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Koryn
Posts: 35,829
Boston, Massachusetts, US


There is a lot of misunderstanding in general about the exotic dance industry. Many of us actually are dynamic performers, who care about entertaining. I also do fairly challenging pole performance, contortions & entertaining gimmicks on stage. I have a regular clientele who spend a good bit of money, who place a value on my company & feedback in regards to their life & work situations. I make them laugh, & feel good about themselves after a stressful day. Some people request to see certain tricks or pole moves they think are cool. When I think of my job as a stripper, I think of these positive things, but a lot of mainstream Americans who have never stripped or known strippers personally, associate shame & drug use with it.
Nov 17 10 10:35 am  Link  Quote 
Model
xxmiss sinful
Posts: 6
Knoxville, Tennessee, US


Many times That I should model so I went for it and I am doing great.There wont ever be any lap dances or disrespect to me by a photographer or I'm out.I think ex dancers we have so much self confidence after being sucessful dancers and that helps to make
Nov 17 10 10:37 am  Link  Quote 
Model
xxmiss sinful
Posts: 6
Knoxville, Tennessee, US


Fearless and beautiful shots.People shouldn't be so judgemental of what people do.I do know a few stereotypical types of strippers,but many great confident beautiful ones such as myself too
Nov 17 10 10:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rdallasPhotography
Posts: 965
Norristown, Pennsylvania, US


ShivaKitty wrote:
I'm a stripper; I've been a (very good) model for five years. I also have good self-esteem, a four year degree, a good relationship, and a happy, healthy life overall. *shrug*

I started stripping so I could continue to model. When I started to get offers to do shoots in other parts of the country, around the beginning of 2008, I had a full-time conventional job that would not provide either flexible scheduling, or time off to travel.

Conventional jobs do not support the scheduling needed for working as a model; they will just fire you if you cannot work the schedule they dictate. Stripping allows me to work as much, or little, as I need to work and to take all the time off I need for modeling work.

I also make more money than I ever made in an office. As a result, my credit score has improved since I started stripping. My car is almost paid off, and I have a nice place to live. When I was working normal jobs, I was barely scraping by, and my general quality of life was much lower.

Your situation is very similar to some that I know. Dancing is a very practical thing to do that allows you to meet other time and financial obligations. It has zero to do with self image.

Best wishes for continued success!

Nov 17 10 10:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rdallasPhotography
Posts: 965
Norristown, Pennsylvania, US


Liteguy wrote:
Even though you wanted responses from models, it seems only photographers have responded. So, I will add to the list.

Dancers ROCK! Dancers of any genre from erotic to ballet. They not only know where their bodies are, they, more often than not, have a confidence level not found in a lot of non dancers. That confidence comes through in the shot.

I can shoot a erotic dancer who is fully dressed and still get a great shot just because of she knows how to work the camera.

I have also found this to be true with models who have a dance background but haven't danced in some time.

Whoever told you otherwise might need to deal with his own issues and perceptions.

I welcome comments from anyone. I shouldn't have targeted it to begin with.

Thanks. smile

Nov 17 10 10:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Greg Scott - BodyWerx
Posts: 494
Lake Aluma, Oklahoma, US


i'll share an observation I have had with this, strippers as models.

you generally have 2 types of women in that industry... (this isnt an absolute, but its close and actually its not limited to that industry, this is kind of a universal truism so to speak)

group 1, the predominant group in the stripper/dancer industry, are women with low self esteem, and low self worth. they are generally the women that attach themselves to a guy thats just about the lowest form of human out there, and they thrive to be with him until he kicks them to the curb. When he does, if they meet someone that treats them right, they treat him the same as they were treated by their ex, right up until the ex says ok ill take you back just this once, in which she will poo all over a guy that treats her like a decent human and run like they are on fire to the guy that shits all over and uses them..... after they take the nice guy for all they can. this group is typically pharmaceutically dependent also. 

group 2, is a smaller group but these are business women. they are self reliant, have high self esteem, have high ethical oppinions, are reliable, trustworthy, I dare say normal in terms of relationship standards. its just a job, for them a fun job, where they make ALOT of money, retire comfortably early, and have a great life full of friends, travel, adventure, and substancial monetary gains because what they make, it doesnt go "up their nose" or to support some lowlife pos sitting on the couch with no job (what group 1 supports)

none of the above is an absolute, but its not too far off.

group 1, makes completely horrid models, if you can get them to do it at all. If they choose to do it on here, they are the flakiest of the flakes. If they dont choose to do it here and you approach them, good luck. I have literally experienced something that blows my mind about them also... they will run around for hours ass naked in front of 200 people, but absolutely will not give you the time of the day if you mention nude modeling. And relying on them to be some where at time X? Good luck, flake doesnt begin to cover it, just like models on here that arent strippers/dancers but has couch boy in their life. So its not exclusive to strippers, just the mentality.

group 2, makes the best models around. they are on time, they have a personality, they have fun with the shoot, and you dont have to worry about half your things disappearing while they are there. Its a business to them. A fun business, but its a job and they treat it as such.

now a small piece of advice, escorts on the other hand, predominantly make the best models in terms of reliability. They love TF*, they show up on time, take care of themselves, are very comfortable and secure... in that industry, group 2 is the larger type. the ones that are a group 1 type, you would think, would be dominant as a group in that industry, but reality is, they get ran out of there fast. If they work for an "agency" they get ran out quick because of drama and reliability, along with word of mouth, if they are an independent, word of mouth spreads fast on the "client" side and they get blackballed (no pun intended) pdq.
Nov 17 10 10:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Porcelain Perspective
Posts: 298
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US


David Paduch wrote:

But couldn't this be said about any demographic group? I've met waitresses and bartenders, students and moms who come off as a complete waste of time. Likewise from the same groups I've mentioned I've met some of the most amazing women ever.

*shrug*

The dude the OP is talking about needs to worry more about his own attitude and not so much about the women around him.

Dave

I agree 100% with what you're saying.

Nov 17 10 10:52 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Skunk The Gutterpunk
Posts: 768
Red Bank, New Jersey, US


Strippers are awesome models.
Nov 17 10 11:00 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Sierra Sunshine
Posts: 11,876
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I know of a few dancers who model as well, and are phenomenal at both.
/thread
Nov 17 10 11:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Matt Schmidt
Posts: 3,643
Greensboro, North Carolina, US


Strippers who model . . . Hurray!

. . . wait, was there a question here . . .
Nov 17 10 11:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Martin Philippo
Posts: 968
Noordwijkerhout, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands


Strippers are just like people: some are great models, others are not.
Nov 17 10 11:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AmGlamStudios
Posts: 336
Weymouth, Massachusetts, US


ShivaKitty wrote:
I'm a stripper; I've been a (very good) model for five years. I also have good self-esteem, a four year degree, a good relationship, and a happy, healthy life overall. *shrug*

I started stripping so I could continue to model. When I started to get offers to do shoots in other parts of the country, around the beginning of 2008, I had a full-time conventional job that would not provide either flexible scheduling, or time off to travel.

Conventional jobs do not support the scheduling needed for working as a model; they will just fire you if you cannot work the schedule they dictate. Stripping allows me to work as much, or little, as I need to work and to take all the time off I need for modeling work.

I also make more money than I ever made in an office. As a result, my credit score has improved since I started stripping. My car is almost paid off, and I have a nice place to live. When I was working normal jobs, I was barely scraping by, and my general quality of life was much lower.

Where do you dance?

Nov 17 10 01:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Vector One Photography
Posts: 2,616
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US


I've shot several strippers in the past years but now I have a different problems working  with them. 

Twenty years ago, as a group, they were more responsible and more natural.  They were never the height of responsibility but I choose ones that were more mature and had very little trouble or problems.  Like most non professional models some were good, some weren't.  If I was doing erotic/fetish/adult nude type work most were fine. If I were doing fine art or fashion/beauty I kept it to the mature attitude ones. One of the easiest fine art shoots I did was with a stripper and likewise one of the best beauty shoots I did was with a stripper ( on both shoots she got there before me and I always get to the locations early).

Now I find I can't shoot them at all.  Most in my area are inked, implanted, and bleached out, any of which eliminates them from the running.  Also, as far as responsibility goes, they are at the bottom of the barrel.  They can barely make it to work on time and for the days scheduled, I have little hope they will make it to a shoot.

There are always exeptions but in my area so few and far between that I now search on MM or OMP for models for nude/erotic/fine art work.

Edit: He is somewhat right about them being different. As I have said ot some of them, it's not normal... "Big Bird don't shake it for a buck".  Most of the girls do seem to have issues, either abuse, bad childhood, bad choices in men, etc. But some know it's a money maker that you can do on your own schedule and without a degree.  It's the ones that say it is an art form that scare me.  ( I am in a lap dance area, I guess there could be an art in that.)
Nov 17 10 01:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58,130
Annapolis, Maryland, US


Vector One Photography wrote:
I've shot several strippers in the past years but now I have a different problems working  with them. 

Twenty years ago, as a group, they were more responsible and more natural.  They were never the height of responsibility but I choose ones that were more mature and had very little trouble or problems.  Like most non professional models some were good, some weren't.  If I was doing erotic/fetish/adult nude type work most were fine. If I were doing fine art or fashion/beauty I kept it to the mature attitude ones. One of the easiest fine art shoots I did was with a stripper and likewise one of the best beauty shoots I did was with a stripper ( on both shoots she got there before me and I always get to the locations early).

Now I find I can't shoot them at all.  Most in my area are inked, implanted, and bleached out, any of which eliminates them from the running.  Also, as far as responsibility goes, they are at the bottom of the barrel.  They can barely make it to work on time and for the days scheduled, I have little hope they will make it to a shoot.

There are always exeptions but in my area so few and far between that I now search on MM or OMP for models for nude/erotic/fine art work.

Edit: He is somewhat right about them being different. As I have said ot some of them, it's not normal... "Big Bird don't shake it for a buck".  Most of the girls do seem to have issues, either abuse, bad childhood, bad choices in men, etc. But some know it's a money maker that you can do on your own schedule and without a degree. It's the ones that say it is an art form that scare me.  ( I am in a lap dance area, I guess there could be an art in that.)

Then you must have some shitty dancers in your area.

hmm

Nov 17 10 01:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Danny Does Glamour
Posts: 2,343
Atlanta, Georgia, US


7imaging wrote:
Generally,I wont work with them. In my experiences, they are the most likely type of model to 'flake'.  Very unreliable. Im sure there are some out there that are on top of their game, and come to a shoot to work - maybe even on time. But I haven't met any...

In my experience they are the most likely type of model to PAY.

Just sayin'...

Nov 17 10 02:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Danny Does Glamour
Posts: 2,343
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Martin Philippo wrote:
Strippers are just like people: some are great models, others are not.

Strippers actually ARE people.

Nov 17 10 02:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Danny Does Glamour
Posts: 2,343
Atlanta, Georgia, US


rdallasPhotography wrote:
This photographer is very popular and is good but his presumptions are, in my mind, nonsense and grossly judgmental. Using absolutes to describe a entire group of people without knowing their situation is overly simplistic.

You said it.

Nov 17 10 02:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
All Yours Photography
Posts: 2,245
Toledo, Ohio, US


mark hollywood wrote:
Strippers Rock

Stripper's Rock is located in the New River in West Virgina.  Any other whitewater rafters out there?

Nov 17 10 02:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,960
Costa Mesa, California, US


If you shoot erotic or Human condition style work strippers are great. I've had many..some better than others. One or two were great at anything. Most of the other's "greatness" was limited to erotic work... as you might expect since they have a lot of practice in that area. But this was decades ago so times have likely changed.
Nov 17 10 02:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Erin Holmes
Posts: 6,333
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


I guess I'm a horrible model.
Nov 17 10 02:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
thefurman
Posts: 1,786
San Francisco, California, US


There's zero correlation between whether or not someone is a stripper and how moral they are. There's also zero correlation between being a good model and being a moral person.

The only problem with some strippers is that they're too used to certain "sexy" poses and expressions. Personally, I'm pretty much never interested in those and it can take a little time to break out of the routine.

Other than that, no issues.
Nov 17 10 02:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sospix
Posts: 21,128
Orlando, Florida, US


Anzhelika Yakimenko wrote:
I can assure the there is more money in dancing than modelling.  However, not all people are the same.  In general, the strippers(lets call them dancers) I have known were flakes - not reliable to show up on time.   As a model, I cant stand that.   Having said that, let me recognize that there ARE conscientious, hard-working, non-drugger, serious, reliable strippers out there, just not very many.

Nuthin' mo betta than "reliable strippers"  .  .  .  wink

SOS

Nov 17 10 03:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sospix
Posts: 21,128
Orlando, Florida, US


Erin Holmes wrote:
I guess I'm a horrible model.

Then ya must be a wonderful stripper  .  .  .  wink

SOS

Nov 17 10 03:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Henri3
Posts: 7,392
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Just finished a short shoot with an exotic dancer referred by another dancer.

While she liked the nudes better then the fashion looks, on the tethered monitor, I'm certain we could do some cool fashion looks as well, given more time.

They all seemed very motivated once they got here, but reliability didn't seem a particularly high priority among a many of em.
Met a couple real disappointments in the looks department, but overall I've been very pleased with the experiences and results and met some outstanding models who also perform as dancers.
Nov 17 10 07:33 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Koryn
Posts: 35,829
Boston, Massachusetts, US


AmGlamStudios wrote:

Where do you dance?

I'll PM it to you.

Nov 17 10 07:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
FitzMulti - Las Vegas
Posts: 1,474
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


STEREOTYPES are bad...period!

How about: "Girls that work at grocery checkout counters" make bad models because they are standing on their feet all day...

or: "Blondes with brown eyes" are bad models because....whatever....

or: Men from Montana make terrible race car drivers...

That dude who made that comment, just had issues with strippers, dancers, whatever, and may have had a bad experience, so he categorized them all in one lump stereotype.

Pathetic!
Nov 17 10 08:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sophia Be
Posts: 6,347
Portland, Oregon, US


Martin Philippo wrote:
Strippers are just like people: some are great models, others are not.

hmm

Nov 17 10 08:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
nudeXposed
Posts: 1,079
Shanghai, Shanghai, China


his opinions are his business not yours or ours.

your opinion of his opinion is your business not ours.

his photographic skills, now that is worth discussing.

the rest is just opinion, it's not real.

the truth is some strippers make great models, some don't, but everybody with half a brain knows that.
Nov 18 10 06:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BTHPhoto
Posts: 6,765
Fairbanks, Alaska, US


rdallasPhotography wrote:
This photographer is very popular and is good but his presumptions are, in my mind, nonsense and grossly judgmental.

Moral 1 of the story: being a good photographer and being a bigoted prick are not mutually exclusive.

Moral 2 of the story: being talented and successful and being a decent human being are not inherently linked.

Nov 18 10 06:48 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
976 Photography
Posts: 4,599
Shreveport, Louisiana, US


some "models" make bad models...
Nov 18 10 07:33 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Koryn
Posts: 35,829
Boston, Massachusetts, US


976 Photography wrote:
some a good many "models" make bad models...

Fixed.

Nov 18 10 07:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 8,291
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada


Liteguy wrote:
Even though you wanted responses from models, it seems only photographers have responded. So, I will add to the list.

Dancers ROCK! Dancers of any genre from erotic to ballet. They not only know where their bodies are, they, more often than not, have a confidence level not found in a lot of non dancers. That confidence comes through in the shot.

I can shoot a erotic dancer who is fully dressed and still get a great shot just because of she knows how to work the camera.

I have also found this to be true with models who have a dance background but haven't danced in some time.

Whoever told you otherwise might need to deal with his own issues and perceptions.

Agree heartily. I prefer models with some 'real' dance experience.

That being said, aside from his dumb comments I can see where he has a very slight point. For high fashion, strippers have too much of a figure. On average.

Guys like their strippers a little more rounded then the usual fashion model.

But other wise he seems to be full of it. Elsewhere some photographers commented that they prefer to pay strippers who model, because they will be more professional, even for a clothed shoot.

Nov 18 10 01:20 pm  Link  Quote 
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