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Model
Model Delicate
Posts: 61


Hi everyone,

I'm generally a retoucher, but I've recently got back into video editing (mainly for beauty & fashion clients) and have also heard a lot about the high demand of videos for photographers/models/MUA's portfolios.

Back in Germany I used to edit short films, mood cuts, showreels & behind the scenes videos for Jil Sander, Dior etc. but never thought that there would be much money in it so I decided to concentrate on retouching.

But now that the retouching market is getting really competitive I was wondering if it makes sense to get back into the whole editing thing again andto offer these services in addition to photo retouching.

How high is the demand in the beauty & fashion industry and especially for photographers/models/MUA's to showcase your work not only on photos, but also in video format?
And how many photographers or fashion clients would pay for a "behind the scenes" video from their recent campaign shoot?

I would be really thankful for some thoughts smile

Many thanks,

Nadine
Jan 17 11 07:13 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Don-Jones
Posts: 301
Memphis, Tennessee, US


I'd say that it isn't enough interest for paid jobs.  A lot of people are doing quick behind the scenes vids, but most of them are being shot with a smart phone.  95% of the vids are for the web and there is no need to waste time shooting 1080 with an SLR and having to format it. 

There is money for showcase videos, but this is aimed at vp and vfx, not editing. 

It also goes back to the same reason there is so much comp in retouching.  Everyone is a weekend editor these days and this goes for video as well.  Overall I wouldn't re-focus a career towards it, but I'd definitely offer it as a service. 

My advice for anyone is to vertically integrate.  A long time ago I was just a graphic designer and illustrator.  I said I need more work.  My business came from creative directors/consultants who were the ones working directly with the clients.  That is where I had to be if I wanted to say, "not only can I offer you this... but I can integrate a complete solution for you".  Become the guy that hires you.

Seriously though, you need to be on location.  Ask to do some video of the scene while the photographer is doing his thing.  Give him the vid for free.  Then the next guy you work for you can say, "hey.. look what I did for this guy." - and don't mention it was free.
Jan 17 11 07:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
c_d_s
Posts: 7,771
Lubbock, Texas, US


There is always a demand for the very best editors, and the money is good. Unfortunately, just like digital photography and retouching, the price of admission is little or nothing, so the competition at the low end is simply overwhelming and the money to be made is very low.
Jan 17 11 08:02 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
ZARIHS RETOUCHER
Posts: 3,022
Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland


i will  pay for a "behind the scenes"  from campaign shoot

if video will be like this http://vimeo.com/7317595
Jan 17 11 08:25 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
ZARIHS RETOUCHER
Posts: 3,022
Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland


this is for d.a.r friend !

many many professionals told me that there is alot of $$$$$$$ in video work !
Jan 17 11 08:27 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Delicate Editing
Posts: 152
London, England, United Kingdom


Thanks for your replies.

I'm probably not the very best editor yet, but I do have quite a bit of experience and used to work for some famous international clients.

This is a video I edited last week (it's only a smaller project though):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf9RnLU8sIA

I'm sure there is a lot of competition in this field as well, but seeing how many retouching studios are thinking about getting into editing as well and how many photographers & models use very professional videos in their portfolios might mean that there is a demand smile

I will definitelt try and also improve my skills.
It's very interesting to hear your thoughts about this as well though.

It's just like any other market really, isn't it?

But luckily I don't do crappy jobs for $30 per video (or image), neither as a retoucher nor as a video editor so I'm trying not to reach commercial clients who do value good quality.
Jan 17 11 08:28 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Delicate Editing
Posts: 152
London, England, United Kingdom


zarihs retoucher wrote:
i will  pay for a "behind the scenes"  from campaign shoot

if video will be like this http://vimeo.com/7317595

That is a really cool video smile
I like it a lot.

I could definitely edit something like this, but it's also down to a really good videographer/camera man and very good footage to work with.


I wouldn't even start to edit videos from Iphone footage people send you... that doesn't make sense and they are also not the clients I am looking for.

Jan 17 11 08:31 am  Link  Quote 
Film/TV Producer
AOP Studios
Posts: 3,544
Los Angeles, California, US


Model Delicate wrote:
Hi everyone,

I'm generally a retoucher, but I've recently got back into video editing (mainly for beauty & fashion clients) and have also heard a lot about the high demand of videos for photographers/models/MUA's portfolios.

Back in Germany I used to edit short films, mood cuts, showreels & behind the scenes videos for Jil Sander, Dior etc. but never thought that there would be much money in it so I decided to concentrate on retouching.

But now that the retouching market is getting really competitive I was wondering if it makes sense to get back into the whole editing thing again andto offer these services in addition to photo retouching.

How high is the demand in the beauty & fashion industry and especially for photographers/models/MUA's to showcase your work not only on photos, but also in video format?
And how many photographers or fashion clients would pay for a "behind the scenes" video from their recent campaign shoot?

I would be really thankful for some thoughts smile

Many thanks,

Nadine

Your work is very good and very professional and your rates are right in with most here as myself. I do promo videos like this for companies, photograhers and models ALL the time and most of my work now comes from video editing more than weddings. I like them more then weddings also...more creative and get to work with alot of like minded colleagues. All about promoting your work and there isn't a day that goes by that I'm not out at an event promoting and in return, getting work. Have had to cancel almost every weekend "fun" event at the last minute because I was hired for pay for something else. There is alot of work out there.

Jan 17 11 08:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Don-Jones
Posts: 301
Memphis, Tennessee, US


I will simplify what I said:
There is money in the production of video, not the editing.
Jan 17 11 08:38 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Delicate Editing
Posts: 152
London, England, United Kingdom


AOP Studios wrote:
Your work is very good and very professional and your rates are right in with most here as myself. I do promo videos like this for companies, photograhers and models ALL the time and most of my work now comes from video editing more than weddings. I like them more then weddings also...more creative and get to work with alot of like minded colleagues. All about promoting your work and there isn't a day that goes by that I'm not out at an event promoting and in return, getting work. Have had to cancel almost every weekend "fun" event at the last minute because I was hired for pay for something else. There is alot of work out there.

Thanks a lot for the compliments.
I'm really happy to hear that your business is going well and that there is a demand for great video editing.
I have to say that after being a retoucher for so many years I really enjoyed editing a video again... motion pictures are quite fascinating and you can often transport the mood a lot better than via photographs and retouching.

Thanks so much for the advise as well.
I will definitely try to meet more people who are interested in this kind of thing and do more networking with photographers and fashion industry people smile

I like your work a lot as well by the way.

Jan 17 11 08:41 am  Link  Quote 
Film/TV Producer
AOP Studios
Posts: 3,544
Los Angeles, California, US


Don-Jones wrote:
I will simplify what I said:
There is money in the production of video, not the editing.

Not true. I am booked for editing projects...corporate, educational, special events, documentaries, promotional videos...for most of this year already. Now hired to edit a "Comic Book" movie like the Buffy The Vampire Slayer one that came out, so the client has in time for ComicCon.

Editing, if you are a patient person who likes to work by themselves for hours on end, is quite profitable.

Jan 17 11 08:41 am  Link  Quote 
Film/TV Producer
AOP Studios
Posts: 3,544
Los Angeles, California, US


Delicate Editing wrote:

Thanks a lot for the compliments.
I'm really happy to hear that your business is going well and that there is a demand for great video editing.
I have to say that after being a retoucher for so many years I really enjoyed editing a video again... motion pictures are quite fascinating and you can often transport the mood a lot better than via photographs and retouching.

Thanks so much for the advise as well.
I will definitely try to meet more people who are interested in this kind of thing and do more networking with photographers and fashion industry people smile

I like your work a lot as well by the way.

Film/Video Editing is as or sometimes MORE important that the director's job. A good editor can make or break a film/project.

Jan 17 11 08:45 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
ZARIHS RETOUCHER
Posts: 3,022
Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf9RnLU8sIA

wow that's beautyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Jan 17 11 08:46 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Delicate Editing
Posts: 152
London, England, United Kingdom


zarihs retoucher wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf9RnLU8sIA

wow that's beautyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Thank you so very much smile

By the way, just to quickly clarify... I've opened this post as well but was stupidly logged in with my model account earlier smile

Jan 17 11 08:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21,320
Seattle, Washington, US


zarihs retoucher wrote:
i will  pay for a "behind the scenes"  from campaign shoot

if video will be like this http://vimeo.com/7317595

I could do significantly better than that, provided the source material.

Jan 17 11 08:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21,320
Seattle, Washington, US


Delicate Editing wrote:
This is a video I edited last week (it's only a smaller project though):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf9RnLU8sIA

Now that's nice. Did you do the DoF in post, or was your videographer on their game?

If I can ask - your credits say that you licensed the audio. What's your process for that? Do you pay straight compulsory sync rates, or do you use a service? I've been going through the creative commons sources, but really, maybe one track out of 200 are decent. I'd love to find an easy source for the small guy to get good licensing terms.

Jan 17 11 09:03 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Delicate Editing
Posts: 152
London, England, United Kingdom


Sophistocles wrote:

Now that's nice. Did you do the DoF in post, or was your videographer on their game?

If I can ask - your credits say that you licensed the audio. What's your process for that? Do you pay straight compulsory sync rates, or do you use a service? I've been going through the creative commons sources, but really, maybe one track out of 200 are decent. I'd love to find an easy source for the small guy to get good licensing terms.

So sorry, but can you tell me what DoF means?

Oh well, the sound track story.
It took us about 2 weeks to find the right track. We really wanted to buy a track so we could use it on every platform and also on our websites, but like you said, it is so hard to find something decent on the "royalty free" websites (unless you want to pay ridiculous amounts of money "per 10 seconds" for a proper song).
Then I finally found MOBY's website who offers his music for free use to students and non commercial purposes.
We sent him a message to explain our project but still had to pay a little bit of money to be allowed to use it on youtube etc.

But I can't keep on using music from this one website, so I really hope that I will find some nice royalty free music from other websites soon for different projects.

Jan 17 11 09:09 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Rob Mac Studio
Posts: 1,105
London, England, United Kingdom


Depth of field
Jan 17 11 09:17 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
ZARIHS RETOUCHER
Posts: 3,022
Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland


Delicate Editing wrote:
So sorry, but can you tell me what DoF means?

depth of field

Jan 17 11 09:18 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
ZARIHS RETOUCHER
Posts: 3,022
Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland


wow Nadine i checked your mm model account your are hot ! 

nadine name is someone very close to me
Jan 17 11 09:19 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Delicate Editing
Posts: 152
London, England, United Kingdom


Ahh thanks a lot.
The depth of field comes from the videographer, he's a really talented young person and we were so happy to have him in the team.

Haha, thanks for the compliments smile
There are so many things that i want to do at the moment, but because I don't have standard agency sizes (I'm only 5'4) I decided to put a lot more concentration on my retouching jobs and video editing.
I do want to do more modeling as well, but I need to find the time and some talented photographers as well.
Jan 17 11 09:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
c_d_s
Posts: 7,771
Lubbock, Texas, US


Sophistocles wrote:
If I can ask - your credits say that you licensed the audio. What's your process for that? Do you pay straight compulsory sync rates, or do you use a service? I've been going through the creative commons sources, but really, maybe one track out of 200 are decent. I'd love to find an easy source for the small guy to get good licensing terms.

There's an entire industry in buy-out music. It's cheap, and some of it's not bad. I used to have a fairly large library of it on CD when I had a video editing suite. Much of it's online these days, licensed by the track.

Jan 17 11 08:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Don-Jones
Posts: 301
Memphis, Tennessee, US


There are all types of methods you can go for audio.  A lot of it is "build-it-yourself" kits.  For short and simple stuff, I use this a lot - http://www.videocopilot.net/products/proscores/

For our big campaigns, we usually license content from Brand X Music.  They do a lot of trailer music movies.  Shared licensing of tracks starts at $1,400 US for WEB only.  $3,000 if you plan on doing DVD + WEB.  To have a custom track made or exclusively license a track, we usually pay $7,500 and up. 

If you are in the U.S. I seriously recommend getting licensed or royalty free music.  I've been sued 4 times (not all for the same reason) and it isn't worth it in the long run... 

If anyone wants links to other audio library products, just message me. 

----
As for the editing, you really need to bring something "signature" to the table other than piecing segments of clips together.  Not trying to sound like an asshole - I like to see people succeed.  But here is a lot you can do with transitions, titles and simple vfx.

This place has a ton of great tutorials and has effect and stock library products and a very reasonable price.  http://www.videocopilot.net/products/

Then if you need inspiration, this guy can help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLbQ3z8UzTs

This is also a must for spicing up vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uktYjqEVrGA

Adobe After Effects!
Jan 17 11 08:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Delicate Editing
Posts: 152
London, England, United Kingdom


Thanks for the advise.

Well, in the case of the "Behind the scenes" video I preferred to keep it very simple... I think it's not a video you need a lot of special effects for smile

I have edited different videos a while ago though for bigger clients and also commercials etc. that needed more work in After Effects. I'm just about to get back into this one as well.
Jan 18 11 03:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sanjayb
Posts: 717
Los Angeles, California, US


The fact that you're in London is kind of a double edged sword (im assuming its like LA except on a smaller scale) lots of opportunities,  but also home to the British film industry so lots of editors as well. The work will really have to stand out
Jan 18 11 11:50 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Delicate Editing
Posts: 152
London, England, United Kingdom


Quality is definitely and always a very big selling point, but lately i'm getting the impression (also as a retoucher) that great marketing seems to be even more important and I have to get better at that.
I want to try and combine both...
Jan 22 11 05:26 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Emilian Dechev Retouch
Posts: 62
Sofia, Sofija grad, Bulgaria


Lately I was thinking, why there is no "video editor" categoty on MM?

I searched the forum and bumped on this thread.

As a film school graduate I agree, that editing can make or brake the movie.
Yes, there are many weekend editors, because most of the projects just do not need anything more than cutting, crossfades and some music.

The videography is also really important, although I worked wonders, just to make sense in a pile of crappy footage.

I think that there may be a market for more demanding projects.
Some that invlove visual effects, color matching/grading, compositing, 2D photo to 3D scene conversion, etc.
But I do not know, if there are people on MM with that kind of projects?
Aug 07 11 09:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
jamesRwatson
Posts: 52
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Bloody Hell, Even though Toronto is one of the Mecca's of filming it's harder then hell to find an editor on MM. I've had casting calls for ages with only a few hits, and seldom do the people who respond have any tallent.

I agree with postings above. An editor can make or break a piece. Just look at Momento, without the editing the movie would be nothing (and please explain how it lost to Black Hawk Down for the editing Oscar?)

I believe that instead of considering it a refocusing your tallent, you should just consider it an increase to the services you offer and ride the wave.

Same Day Edits (SDE's) are also taking off in the wedding market (at least here in T.O.) if you're able to handle the pressure and do the work in less than 6 hours then I'd say check out that market as well.
Aug 18 11 05:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ultimate dream
Posts: 848
London, England, United Kingdom


I shot this behind the scene video for a friend of mine just for fun, and little did i know that this video will get me more jobs than i expected.

http://vimeo.com/16077158
Aug 18 11 05:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
shaunmlavery
Posts: 38
Cincinnati, Ohio, US


Ive been curious about this one myself. Unlike some, I didn't jump at these new HDDSLR's when they came out because, in my mind, Photography and Videography are two entirely separate things. Even though the gap is beginning to narrow, there is still a huge gap to me, workflow being the biggest one to me.

Now that everyone has somewhat calmed down about being able to shoot video with their SLR's, I have began to focus my attention back on video editing. Where the heck do I start?

It used to be Final Cut 7 but now that is kind of a wash since Final Cut X is out...

I have Premiere Pro via CS5 Suite and Final Cut X


At this stage in the game, I am open to whatever, I just don't want to waste time. I want to learn and build on the things I actually retain! big_smile


To me, more than anything, it is just another weapon in the arsenal. I'm not looking to be cutting movies in Hollywood but I am definitely watching them for inspiration from all different angles.
Aug 19 11 01:05 pm  Link  Quote 
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