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Photographer
GlamourLingerie Studios
Posts: 12
Centennial, Colorado, US


Now and again I see models asking for "free" TF wedding pictures.  The sad part is they get replies to these so called "casting calls".  If some photographers think their work is work nothing... then they shouldn't be doing it.
Mar 23 11 03:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Richie Rich B
Posts: 1,521
Largo, Florida, US


Post hidden on Mar 23, 2011 06:48 am
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Trolling.
Mar 23 11 03:40 am  Link 
Photographer
William Steel
Posts: 639
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


Post hidden on Mar 23, 2011 06:48 am
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Positive contributions are welcomed and encouraged. Nonsense and attempts at misinformation are not.
Mar 23 11 03:45 am  Link 
Photographer
Image Unlimited
Posts: 1,559
Crewe, England, United Kingdom


Fashion is about the perpetuation/'reinvention' of the ephemeral. 

This forum theme has been done before, like most others, like most portfolio themes.  Like most of TV and magazines.

Done about 200 weddings.  Many for free.  I've also turned down many people.

I sometimes shoot for free weddings - or other shoots - which I feel will benefit my portfolio, or provide a marketing opportunity.

So when I choose to shoot a model's wedding in a beautiful location, full of beautiful people, whether free or cheaply - hey, it gets me out of the house, you never stop learning - and might get some other bookings out of it.
Mar 23 11 04:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SoCo n Lime
Posts: 3,283
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom


if people with camera's would like to do weddings for nothing then let them do it

if brides and grooms think they are getting something for nothing and that will be of a decent standard then let them think that way.

it mostly always ends up in tears one way or the other, for the person taking pics or the person receiving pics..

until there is a major shake up of photography and formal distinctions made between the hobbyists (who do it for the love) and pros who's skills need to be proven by technical assessments (and do it for money) then this is the 'Self Help' society we live in.

as it stands, anyone with a point and shoot just bought from walmart and with no training can advertise themselves as a photographer and shoot someone's wedding for free or for thousands of pounds/dollars. as long as no one gets physically hurt no-one really cares
Mar 23 11 04:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,444
Paris, Île-de-France, France


GlamourLingerie Studios wrote:
Now and again I see models asking for "free" TF wedding pictures.  The sad part is they get replies to these so called "casting calls".  If some photographers think their work is work nothing... then they shouldn't be doing it.

Zink magazine has a so called contest going were you now pay them 250$ per submission.

Soon enough, mark my words, there will be others asking you to pay them for all that good exposure.

Me first if it's for Vogue>

Mar 23 11 04:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GlamourLingerie Studios
Posts: 12
Centennial, Colorado, US


I don't know how things are in England but it must be very different for you to have that attitude such as you do. I agree with your artistic viewpoint about location and beautiful people.   Clearly you have much more experience than I do.  I just found in my geographical location that people tend act like vultures things are free.
Mar 23 11 04:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SoCo n Lime
Posts: 3,283
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom


Neil Snape wrote:
Zink magazine has a so called contest going were you now pay them 250$ per submission.

Soon enough, mark my words, there will be others asking you to pay them for all that good exposure.

Me first if it's for Vogue>

with more and more people becoming 'image rights' savvy its a wonder why we are not being charged for more and more things we shoot

Mar 23 11 04:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SoCo n Lime
Posts: 3,283
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom


GlamourLingerie Studios wrote:
I don't know how things are in England but it must be very different for you to have that attitude such as you do. I agree with your artistic viewpoint about location and beautiful people.   Clearly you have much more experience than I do.  I just found in my geographical location that people tend act like vultures things are free.

the attitude is that there is nothing we can do about it unless there is a major shake up

you can only try to educate people on what they will get from you as opposed to what they will get from the freebie/inexperienced givers

yes people fall over each other here just like the states when it comes to free.. people doing it for nothing do so in the hope that one day they can make a living from the work they are doing for nothing. there is also people who do it for the quick buck with no experience whats so ever.. the reality is complex.

i have long advocated a formal shake up of who can and who should not be able to call themselves a photographer. as even basic technical assessments would filter out so many poor practitioners

Mar 23 11 04:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image Unlimited
Posts: 1,559
Crewe, England, United Kingdom


SoCo n Lime wrote:
if people with camera's would like to do weddings for nothing then let them do it

if brides and grooms think they are getting something for nothing and that will be of a decent standard then let them think that way.

it mostly always ends up in tears one way or the other, for the person taking pics or the person receiving pics..

until there is a major shake up of photography and formal distinctions made between the hobbyists (who do it for the love) and pros who's skills need to be proven by technical assessments (and do it for money) then this is the 'Self Help' society we live in.

as it stands, anyone with a point and shoot just bought from walmart and with no training can advertise themselves as a photographer and shoot someone's wedding for free or for thousands of pounds/dollars. as long as no one gets physically hurt no-one really cares

Feel this to be something of a generalisation.  I've an upcoming no-profit wedding shoot at an Italian castle, the bride being a model featured in Harpers - No advertising - the bride asked me.  Despite 200 weddings, this will be a great opportunity.

I know many young, talented, upcoming photographers who offer their skills for free or expenses only.  Doing a 'free' wedding involves less outlay than a typical wedding fair. 

I know various experienced wedding photographers (with BA. Hons Photography, membership of the RPS etc etc) offering free weddings in new areas e.g. civil partnerships.

Then again, my entire portfolio here, even when it consisted of 100 images, has always comprised work shot entirely for free.  Nice when the models subsequently ask me to shoot other stuff - like their wedding - paid wink

Mar 23 11 05:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SoCo n Lime
Posts: 3,283
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom


Image Unlimited wrote:
I've an upcoming no-profit wedding shoot at an Italian castle

looking from a distance who is the one benefiting in the situation the model? or photographer?

if you say the photographer is benefiting more (and your not doing this job for a friend) then you are on drugs in my opinion..

Image Unlimited wrote:
Despite 200 weddings, this will be a great opportunity.

if i had shot 200 weddings just like any other sensible business person i would of made 200k profit. this would be more than enough to see me through 10 years of basic living expense never mind the ability to be working full time as a photographer.

if you have done 200 weddings and struggling to make ends meet then who is the one needing to rethink their business strategy?

Mar 23 11 07:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Abbitt Photography
Posts: 11,371
Oakland Acres, Iowa, US


GlamourLingerie Studios wrote:
.. If some photographers think their work is work nothing... then they shouldn't be doing it.

I imagine they feel they get something out of the experience.  People can value things other than monetary compensation.  It could be they value the images, the experience or the networking.

Mar 23 11 07:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Daniel Lee Mahoney
Posts: 497
Bishop's Stortford, England, United Kingdom


If you're good enough to shoot a wedding, you're good enough to get paid for it.

Photography is a job.

I know the reality is much more complicated, and I understand one or two free weddings to start off with...but over 200 weddings and you're still shooting for free?  I understand it's a great client, model, been in Harpers and so on...but are they paying the location? Are they paying the caterers?

Apply the logic to a commercial arena.  Would you do a full day commercial shoot for Shell because a client that big would look good in your portfolio?  Maybe...but probably not.

Thats just my objective point of view, but in reality I fully understand why you are doing it, and if you didn't, it's likely they would be 100 other photographers willing to take your place, also for free...
Mar 23 11 07:39 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TouchofEleganceStudios
Posts: 5,143
Upland, California, US


As a wedding photographer who are you really competing with . If you are shooting weddings for $6000 are you really competing with those shooting for $1800. If you are shooting weddings for over $25000 are you really worried about getting that $1200 wedding. Why are wedding photographers so worried about someone shooting cheap weddings. It is a new market. Clients pic and choose the work that they want.

Every wedding magazine that I have looked at is based on wedding photography and not one of them has advertized "I will shoot your wedding TFP" or "I will shoot your wedding for free".

Look at it this way at every wedding for as long as I can remember and I am retired there has been an uncle or a cousin or someone taking Polariods, Brownie pics. Are you really worried about them getting your work. I think that the only time I ever would say it is time to be worried was when I read a note from a wedding photographer who stated that he had been shooting for several years and he was upset because the brides uncle was taking better pictures than him.
Mar 23 11 07:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Al Cooley Photography
Posts: 450
Allendale, Michigan, US


GlamourLingerie Studios wrote:
Now and again I see models asking for "free" TF wedding pictures.  The sad part is they get replies to these so called "casting calls".  If some photographers think their work is worth nothing... then they shouldn't be doing it.

Why should this surprise you?? Most of the school Senior pictures business is gone, done by PWC (People With Cameras). Common family portraits are done with PWC.
Heck... I have lost dress shop ads to PWC.
Doesn't matter that Pro-Quality is better!
Not if the customer is Happy with mediocre work and a Free price...
Free wins.

Mar 23 11 07:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Edward Chen
Posts: 1,609
Jakarta, Jakarta, Indonesia


GlamourLingerie Studios wrote:
Now and again I see models asking for "free" TF wedding pictures.  The sad part is they get replies to these so called "casting calls".  If some photographers think their work is work nothing... then they shouldn't be doing it.

why is it sad?

Mar 23 11 07:56 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,215
Salem, Oregon, US


some people feel that they should actually shoot a wedding or two before starting to charge for it. the TF weddings provide an opportunity for them to get that experience. some big name wedding photographers have gotten their start this way. the problem i see is if the bride is thinking $5,000 wedding quality (not that price is always an indicator of quality) for free can the newbie deliver?

i'm surprised that brides aren't charging photographers to shoot their wedding. i bet they would get some takers. so many people looking to get experience and build their portfolios.
Mar 23 11 08:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Visual Echoes
Posts: 917
Buffalo, New York, US


Let them do their thing. There will always be a strange selection of people who think that this is the best way to do things. I have a model friend who got married and hired me to shoot the whole thing. She didn't expect anything for free even though we shot TF and I gave her an extremely low rate for the entire thing. There's give and take and to each their own.

Aaand there are people who only know "take" and they feed off of those who only "give". The reason I say let them be is, I for sure as hell do not want to work with these people and try to convince them otherwise..
Mar 23 11 09:08 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Laura Ann - Fashion
Posts: 8,277
Davenport, Iowa, US


I'm not bothered by it.

People who like my work, pay for it.  Those who don't, go elsewhere. 

And if some n00b with no experience is attracting my clients, then I need to look at my work and figure out what I'm doing wrong instead of bitching about the n00b.
Mar 23 11 09:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


SoCo n Lime wrote:

with more and more people becoming 'image rights' savvy its a wonder why we are not being charged for more and more things we shoot

I believe contests where you pay to enter AND 'they' get the rights to y'r work [even if you lose] are more and more common!
And I think I read somewhere here that theres a law in Fla [pending] to make photos of farms illegal.

Mar 23 11 12:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


AL COOLEY PHOTOGRAPHY wrote:

Why should this surprise you?? Most of the school Senior pictures business is gone, done by PWC (People With Cameras). Common family portraits are done with PWC.
Heck... I have lost dress shop ads to PWC.
Doesn't matter that Pro-Quality is better!
Not if the customer is Happy with mediocre work and a Free price...
Free wins.

Long ago the prez of Borlands Software was on a panel with competition [B Gates]
talking about improved quality. gates replied ' all that matters is price'....
gee where are those 2 companies now?

Mar 23 11 12:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TA Craft Photography
Posts: 2,873
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


I may shoot a wedding with a great looking couple in a fab location for free, with just one condition.

I want signed and witnessed releases from every single guest and worker at the wedding before the first picture was taken.  Now that would have some potential to recoup the cost.  However getting such releases would be very unlikely..

T
Mar 23 11 01:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
FKVPhotography
Posts: 30,064
Ocala, Florida, US


Free weddings....

I don't even know what I can say except for, "FUCK THAT!"......
Mar 23 11 02:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
CandiceCampbellPhotog
Posts: 1,302
Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia


FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:
Free weddings....

I don't even know what I can say except for, "FUCK THAT!"......

BAHAHAHAHA +100!

oh Frank, i love you!

Mar 24 11 06:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul Dempsey
Posts: 673
Atlantic City, New Jersey, US


there's nothing wrong with shooting for free.   as an artist you need to feed your creativity and sometimes that means making yourself available for a reduced rate or for free in exchange for an opportunity to shoot something new, different or creative.
Mar 24 11 06:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MadnessMethodical
Posts: 302
Cleveland, Tennessee, US


Paul Dempsey wrote:
there's nothing wrong with shooting for free.   as an artist you need to feed your creativity and sometimes that means making yourself available for a reduced rate or for free in exchange for an opportunity to shoot something new, different or creative.

But Paul-that's exactly the problem. Usually in weddings there is some creativity, but not as much flexibility for it like when you shoot a model. You are locked into some pictures, and there's only so many ways you can get the groomsmen/bridesmaids/family to stand, sit, kneel, etc. That's why it's more then shooting for free-it's about going to do something that literally is work. I agree with your opinions about artistry-but that is why many people, new and experienced remain starving artists. You're selling yourself short when you sacrifice using your talents for nothing in a market full of people who do things that will never stand out.

Plus, all the guys carrying a camera in auto think they are being "creative" and unique." Not saying they always fail, but the chances are very low of anything that truly works as a figure of art. So you can call it creativity, but there's nothing that separates you at all from the crowd with their point and shoots.

Mar 24 11 11:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MadnessMethodical
Posts: 302
Cleveland, Tennessee, US


But your work is very good Paul-but I'm talking in general terms of a wedding market.
Mar 24 11 11:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Magic Image Photography
Posts: 3,606
Temple City, California, US


The way I see it is like this. I have no idea how to change a battery on my car I have no idea how to give it a tune up I have no idea how I would change the oil on my car but if some fool is willing to take the chance on me with their car then so be it. Give me your car and I will work on it. That is the same way i feel about models asking for photographers to shoot free weedings for them.
Mar 24 11 11:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,481
Salinas, California, US


GlamourLingerie Studios wrote:
Now and again I see models asking for "free" TF wedding pictures.  The sad part is they get replies to these so called "casting calls".  If some photographers think their work is work nothing... then they shouldn't be doing it.

I saw an ad on Craigslist from a guy who advertised that he would shoot weddings for FREE!    I called him up to chat with him to see where his head was at and why he is doing free wedding photography.   Really nice guy working a 9 to 5 job making good money with lots of camera gear and time to spare.  He just wanted to do it for the experience of it.  After I got off the phone with him, I no longer bother even trying to book weddings.  Why bother?

I love shooting with models.  I don't love shooting weddings so much anymore.

Mar 24 11 11:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


Patrick,
maybe the guy ill get tired of working for free!
Mar 25 11 11:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Doe and Exene
Posts: 153
San Luis Obispo, California, US


FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:
Free weddings....

I don't even know what I can say except for, "FUCK THAT!"......

Frank for President.  And...just to state the obvious...Frank, you're cooler than all of the rest of us put together!

JD

Mar 25 11 12:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


GlamourLingerie Studios wrote:
I don't know how things are in England but it must be very different for you to have that attitude such as you do. I agree with your artistic viewpoint about location and beautiful people.   Clearly you have much more experience than I do.  I just found in my geographical location that people tend act like vultures things are free.

Yes IU does very nic work and I agree with you.
IU...when you do TFP....how many hours do you put in [including driving]?

Mar 27 11 12:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photogdan
Posts: 687
Louisville, Kentucky, US


FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:
Free weddings....

I don't even know what I can say except for, "FUCK THAT!"......

YEP!   I just told a friend at work, no thanks on his wedding.  Told him to expect 3 to 5 grand for a quality wedding shoot.    He has a friend that has done 2 jobs with his camera, both point and shoot stuff, doing it for around 500.    He just asked me to be there 'in case' something goes wrong.   Told him I would be a guest only............now I doubt getting an invite.

Mar 27 11 01:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,481
Salinas, California, US


Photogdan wrote:

YEP!   I just told a friend at work, no thanks on his wedding.  Told him to expect 3 to 5 grand for a quality wedding shoot.    He has a friend that has done 2 jobs with his camera, both point and shoot stuff, doing it for around 500.    He just asked me to be there 'in case' something goes wrong.   Told him I would be a guest only............now I doubt getting an invite.

I recently had an acquaintance who is a friend of my close friend ask me about wedding photography.  She got somebody to shoot stills and video for $700.  I thanked her for thinking of me, but that I could not compete with that price and "best wishes!"  We'll see how that went.  wink

Mar 27 11 01:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,481
Salinas, California, US


FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:
Free weddings....

I don't even know what I can say except for, "FUCK THAT!"......
John Doe and Exene wrote:
Frank for President.  And...just to state the obvious...Frank, you're cooler than all of the rest of us put together!

JD

Yes! He gets my vote!

Mar 27 11 01:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
OlafSiebert
Posts: 51
Zagreb, Grad Zagreb, Croatia


I do TFP, isn't that the same as free weddings?

(all my weddings are paid though)
Mar 27 11 01:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


OlafSiebert wrote:
I do TFP, isn't that the same as free weddings?

(all my weddings are paid though)

Do 20 to 300 people at wedding sign a model release?

Mar 27 11 01:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
OlafSiebert
Posts: 51
Zagreb, Grad Zagreb, Croatia


No, but I am 'steeling' work from the pro by offering TFP.

The same as the free wedding guy 'steels' work from me..
Mar 27 11 01:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Magee1982
Posts: 129
Chicago, Illinois, US


How much does it really cost to shoot a wedding? I am looking to expand into wedding photography and accepted a TFCD shoot for 5 hours of my time. I spend most of my time sitting on the beach, watching TV and playing video games. I see some photographers charging 500 per hour for weddings which is ridiculous.

If someone wants to spend their time shooting free weddings let the do it. They are not taking business from you or anyone else by doing so.
Mar 27 11 01:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BrooklynHill
Posts: 4,790
Los Angeles, California, US


FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:
Free weddings....

I don't even know what I can say except for, "FUCK THAT!"......

lol

Mar 27 11 02:25 pm  Link  Quote 
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