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Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,449
Paris, Île-de-France, France


I don't rant so this is a first.

Through different posts here, we've voted for each others pix on a gallery open to submissions for showing your work on the Vogue Italia web site. Very cool way to get some pix in a high profile web site , and the images ( small jpgs) are water marked with the cool Vogue Italia logo.

I haven't posted any yet but will.

So yesterday I saw a MM photographer in England, saying they worked for numerous magazines including Vogue Italia.

There they had posted an image, they retrieved the image, and are using that for false promotion of work. Misleading models etc, in my opinion is fraud.

I remember all too well when I left Vancouver , all the local photographers would say , oh I worked in Europe, for so many months.

In the end the truth was they were on holidays, traveling around with a back pack, shooting some snaps, doing some tests. Never did they work here, especially not in Paris. It is not that easy. Very few really came to Paris and ever worked!

Yet this probably still continues today.

There are few MM photographers who have or ever will work with Vogue Italia. As much as we'd all like to!

Now how do you feel about photographers lying about themselves, to convince others of their greatness that doesn't exist?

/rant
May 16 11 10:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
The Deviant One
Posts: 935
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Same way I feel about lying about their age weight etc lol..
May 16 11 10:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Rich Allenberg
Posts: 12
Los Angeles, California, US


Post hidden on May 16, 2011 11:38 pm
Reason: violates rules
Comments:
Spam
May 16 11 10:49 pm  Link 
Photographer
Yan Tan Tethera
Posts: 4,162
Biggleswade, England, United Kingdom


I understand your frustration Neil.
May 16 11 10:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S de Varax
Posts: 7,270
Dubai, Dubai, United Arab Emirates


I've submitted to Vogue Italia website smile
but no, it's not right to say based on that, that you're been published or worked with vogue italia.

although they do choose photo of the day. if your image was chosen, would you say you've been 'published' on vogue italia's website?......hmmm
May 16 11 10:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GCobb Photography
Posts: 15,890
Southaven, Mississippi, US


WTF (mate)?
May 16 11 10:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
photo212grapher
Posts: 1,538
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Caveat emptor
It is the internet, too.

While a bit unsavory, it is not unexpected. "I worked for National Geographic" could mean I went door-to-door trying to sell their magazine. Résumés without references are not worth much, and a boastful claim without a portfolio to back it up is just that.
May 16 11 10:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chuckarelei
Posts: 9,307
Seattle, Washington, US


Neil Snape wrote:
Now how do you feel about photographers lying about themselves, to convince others of their greatness that doesn't exist?

I'm used to it. There are plenty of egos going around. Most i know they are jive talking as soon as they open their mouths. In fact, there are quite a few who hang around here is you have noticed them?

May 16 11 11:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,449
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Published with classic print magazines isn't the same as on line or web stuff. Even picture of the day is not published, it's just a blog post.

Until there is a wide subscription base for on line magazines, I'm not going to consider anything I've done for any on line magazine to be published.  Even if I post to Vogue Italia , and if I won the prestigious honour of picture of the day, I cannot consider that to be published.

Since I have worked for oh so many world wide ad campaigns just because the ads were published in Vogue, etc , does that say that I can list them? Nope, if one lists magazines, you need to have done a published editorial series.

Yet times are changing.

Still does this go beyond simple misleading?
May 16 11 11:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ICJ
Posts: 223
Lyon, Rhône-Alpes, France


I've been published in a few vogues around the world...never seen the pics in print,but I have been payed for them.I don't say I have been "published in Vogue"...because they were press photos of zero artistic talent.
I can even say I have worked in Paris...but only once of quality lol.But worked in France plenty...but yet again I don't advertise it because it is pretty much crap rent paying work of zero artistic value...I might only be two hours from Paris but my location SUXS!!!.

"Still does this go beyond simple misleading?" ...probably.
May 16 11 11:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
H5D PHOTOGRAPHER
Posts: 3,837
Gig Harbor, Washington, US


Neil Snape wrote:
I don't rant so this is a first.

Through different posts here, we've voted for each others pix on a gallery open to submissions for showing your work on the Vogue Italia web site. Very cool way to get some pix in a high profile web site , and the images ( small jpgs) are water marked with the cool Vogue Italia logo.

I haven't posted any yet but will.

So yesterday I saw a MM photographer in England, saying they worked for numerous magazines including Vogue Italia.

There they had posted an image, they retrieved the image, and are using that for false promotion of work. Misleading models etc, in my opinion is fraud.

I remember all too well when I left Vancouver , all the local photographers would say , oh I worked in Europe, for so many months.

In the end the truth was they were on holidays, traveling around with a back pack, shooting some snaps, doing some tests. Never did they work here, especially not in Paris. It is not that easy. Very few really came to Paris and ever worked!

Yet this probably still continues today.

There are few MM photographers who have or ever will work with Vogue Italia. As much as we'd all like to!

Now how do you feel about photographers lying about themselves, to convince others of their greatness that doesn't exist?

/rant

I wouldnt have the balls to say I had worked for Vogue Italia unless I had been hired for a legit editorial.... submitting on their website & claiming that equates to working for VI is BS!

A lot of Photographers, MUA's & Models lie about stuff... I even found a Model at an Agency in Cape Town that was using images of Solange Wilvert shot by Mert & Marcus for a 2005 Gucci Campaign & passing them off as her own! The Agency even had the images on her comp card! That kind of crap really pisses me off... In the end though those people do get found out.

Honesty is always the best policy because someone will almost always call you out if you make big claims wink

May 17 11 12:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Know Idea
Posts: 2,927
San Diego, California, US


Neil Snape wrote:
Still does this go beyond simple misleading?

Hell yes. Very misleading.

May 17 11 12:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,449
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Know Idea wrote:

Hell yes. Very misleading.

What would you do about very misleading?

May 17 11 12:26 am  Link  Quote 
Model
KamillaF
Posts: 157
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Neil Snape wrote:
I remember all too well when I left Vancouver , all the local photographers would say , oh I worked in Europe, for so many months.

In the end the truth was they were on holidays, traveling around with a back pack, shooting some snaps, doing some tests. Never did they work here, especially not in Paris. It is not that easy. Very few really came to Paris and ever worked!

Yet this probably still continues today.

There are few MM photographers who have or ever will work with Vogue Italia. As much as we'd all like to!

Now how do you feel about photographers lying about themselves, to convince others of their greatness that doesn't exist?

/rant

I lose respect for such people who say they worked in PARIS, when really, they were just tourists. Very sad. I keep running into such photographers that think they are great, when really, anyone can buy DSLR these days and start 'shooting.' I have it too, but I don't go around saying I am a photographer.

I've joined this place a week or so ago, but I am having very hard time finding decent photographers. I am even willing to pay to take some nice photos.

May 17 11 12:33 am  Link  Quote 
Model
KamillaF
Posts: 157
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


S de Varax wrote:
I've submitted to Vogue Italia website smile
but no, it's not right to say based on that, that you're been published or worked with vogue italia.

although they do choose photo of the day. if your image was chosen, would you say you've been 'published' on vogue italia's website?......hmmm

I would say published online vs. published in magazine. There is a big difference on what goes into their magazine and online. Ehhh...

May 17 11 12:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Raoul Isidro Images
Posts: 6,053
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Neil Snape wrote:
Now how do you feel about photographers lying about themselves, to convince others of their greatness that doesn't exist?

"Anybody can be anybody on the INTERNET... and that includes MM."

unless you meet them personally (like what you did) and expose them yourself, EVERYONE here is hiding behind a mask...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/23/article-1059955-02C3E10100000578-917_233x423.jpg

May 17 11 12:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Know Idea
Posts: 2,927
San Diego, California, US


Know Idea wrote:
Hell yes. Very misleading.
Neil Snape wrote:
What would you do about very misleading?

Hard to say. It is M/M after all; where heros in their own mind
can live out their fantasies.

May 17 11 12:39 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Frozen Instant Imagery
Posts: 3,655
Dublin, Dublin, Ireland


Neil Snape wrote:

What would you do about very misleading?

Um, post a rant on MM?  big_smile

May 17 11 12:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,449
Paris, Île-de-France, France


KamillaF wrote:

I would say published online vs. published in magazine. There is a big difference on what goes into their magazine and online. Ehhh...

Images posted to on line vote style galleries are NOT published period.

Some on line magazines that have serious page layout and articles could be considered published. Doing photographers on line portfolios is not in my terms published, but then again I'm an old guy coming from a printed published past.

So you are correct in stating the differences for those who want to have the differences noted.

May 17 11 12:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul Tirado Photography
Posts: 4,215
New York, New York, US


Yeah it is a nice watermark. I got a few on their site. I know you can translate it but it is nice to practice reading Italian. Especially the part about if they do no approve some of your pics after a couple of days, you should delete them. Sounds slightly less severe in Italian. lol.

As to your topic, yes it is very misleading to use that as a credit.
May 17 11 12:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Simmagination
Posts: 3,129
Westminster, Maryland, US


Raoul Isidro Imaging wrote:

EVERYONE here is hiding behind a mask...

http://www.femail.com.au/img/phantom-of-the-opera-gerard-butler.jpg

I just do that because people tend to run away screaming when they see my face tongue

May 17 11 12:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,449
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Frozen Instant Imagery wrote:

Um, post a rant on MM?  big_smile

Exactly. Nothing bothers me more than false representation luring models for exploitation or worse.

I cringe at the so called model agencies that lure models in, or worse the ones that are fronts for other things.

I like MM, I'd like to see things a safe place for all on here. The mods are trying to do a great job in keeping it that way. Many of us try as well.

Yet lying about being published in whatever magazine is grotesque.

So yeah a rant in sorts, but also a deeper concern for the models who may not know the difference between a bona fide photographer trying their best , and a schlock weasel who should be stopped>

This goes for all false claims BTW as I know some say things like FHM, Maxxim , Playboy etc. In the same way that sending a snap shot up for the hotties gallery is not shooting for the magazine.

May 17 11 12:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Benjamin Kanarek
Posts: 2,610
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Neil...Don't worry about it.  Not worth the waste of energy.  You know as well as I, that all you need to do in most cases is just look at the images to know if that person was published in VOGUE, Harper's BAZAAR, ELLE etc.  It is a VERY SMALL world and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to find out the truth.  Believe me Neil, I know. In fact, I was once at a club in Paris and I was with a group of people and about two persons over from me was a girl who was claiming emphatically that she just worked with me for BAZAAR etc, well what did I do,I turned to her and said "I overheard you just worked for BAZAAR! Wow that's great, congratulations!" I turned back and thought, wow that must have made her day.  But I have no recollection of ever working with her.
May 17 11 01:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DANACOLE
Posts: 10,157
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


yeah...I see alot of people on FB posting thier 'Vogue italia' contest pics and images and saying they've been published  on Vogue Italia...

I never go and burst thier bubble and say its just a website contest..
but sometimes, the responses they get from people make me cringe abit....

I have entered that contest and have photos on there but I'm not going around parading that I am published in Vogue italia... I know that would totally be a lie..
and they do to..they just don't care..
May 17 11 02:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ConnorStewart
Posts: 1,163
Los Angeles, California, US


so, what youre saying is, I can be published in Italian Vogue? awesome.





[sarcasm]





im with neal on this.
May 17 11 02:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,449
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Don't get me wrong.

I will someday post to the gallery , I read via FB Vogue Italia daily , I grew up with the same magazine spending a fortune buying it in Vancouver.

I actually suggest people do post there. I also think it is very cool to have the logo in the images saved out and use them for what you will.

The danger and the thing that bugs me is listing Vogue Italia in a profile page, in a way that to me , is luring, lying, and done on purpose to do something that is way beyond self flattery.

Same goes for any who purport to shoot for say Playboy and to be able to get "models" in there, when all along they're trying to get into somewhere else.

And that is just the beginning.
May 17 11 02:31 am  Link  Quote 
Model
V Laroche
Posts: 2,746
New Orleans, Louisiana, US


This is like photographers who have a couple of paparazzi shots on their ports of famous actors, maybe walking down the street or making a public appearance somewhere, and then say stuff like "I shot with so-and-so." It just makes them look like they have fragile little egos and delusions of grandeur.
May 17 11 02:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,449
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Valentine Laroche wrote:
This is like photographers who have a couple of paparazzi shots on their ports of famous actors, maybe walking down the street or making a public appearance somewhere, and then say stuff like "I shot with so-and-so." It just makes them look like they have fragile little egos and delusions of grandeur.

Yup agreed.

The difference being , as you said it's ego building, and most likely ends there.

Those who start a long list of publications they have not worked for or to mix names like Vogue in there are trying to go somewhere else with it.

It's like Ben said I shouldn't worry about it. He's right, but I worry about MM people who fall into the trap of believing these lies.

May 17 11 02:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S de Varax
Posts: 7,270
Dubai, Dubai, United Arab Emirates


I don't think photographers can actually use the vogue italia logo on their images anywhere else except on the vogue italia website or else it'll be considered trademark infringement
May 17 11 02:52 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


Point taken but I know at least two photographers here who HAVE been published in Italian Vogue and I have seen them. Had the privilige of working with one of them. So that is just my experience so it is possible!
May 17 11 02:56 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,449
Paris, Île-de-France, France


S de Varax wrote:
I don't think photographers can actually use the vogue italia logo on their images anywhere else except on the vogue italia website or else it'll be considered trademark infringement

You're probably right.

I haven't gone through the process.

That said, I see most people who have posted on VI , have copied out the images with the logo.
I would have liked to but if it's restricted then I won't. I'll pay attention to the details when entering.

In any case, when I enter, it's to win and be in the magazine not just for the web site/blog

May 17 11 02:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
imagelabz
Posts: 14
Delft, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands


I work in Europe all the time. Well ... does TFCD count? big_smile
May 17 11 02:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lorettonian
Posts: 7
Berlin, Berlin, Germany


Just out of interest - have you ever won Neil wink ?
May 17 11 03:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,449
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Eliza C wrote:
Point taken but I know at least two photographers here who HAVE been published in Italian Vogue and I have seen them. Had the privilige of working with one of them. So that is just my experience so it is possible!

Point being?

This about the gallery for which photographers upload their pictures for a vote based system . If the images are accepted by the editors , they are placed in the gallery. If they win enough votes they are chosen for a weekly prize I think.

When they are placed or if, they have the Vogue Italia logo watermarked.

Being published in any magazine if legit, is fine, also fine to list as a credit.

You could just post their names here, since this is a good place to show who really did work with Vogue Italia. MM photographers the list will be short.

I think Fred G. did but a looooong time ago.

May 17 11 03:03 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lorettonian
Posts: 7
Berlin, Berlin, Germany


Post hidden on May 17, 2011 07:11 am
Reason: violates rules
Comments:
Do not hijack. Do not troll.
No unsolicited critiques.
harassment, bullying, personal attacks and other boorish behavior are not tolerated.
May 17 11 03:04 am  Link 
guide forum
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 21,625
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna


http://www.ricklatona.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/picresized_1229584137_youreadog1.gif

Studio36
May 17 11 03:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,449
Paris, Île-de-France, France


LondonWeddings wrote:
Just out of interest - have you ever won Neil wink ?

Won what?

A couple of things at fairs etc.

Vogue Italia?

No , I haven't even entered yet.

I did win PDN Look competition last year. I just won the West East BK competition too. That Ben posted here, a great opportunity for MM players.

Vogue Italia would be so special to win, and further be published.

May 17 11 03:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lorettonian
Posts: 7
Berlin, Berlin, Germany


Post hidden on May 17, 2011 07:11 am
Reason: violates rules
Comments:
Do not hijack. Do not troll.
No unsolicited critiques.
harassment, bullying, personal attacks and other boorish behavior are not tolerated.
May 17 11 03:08 am  Link 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,449
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Post hidden on May 17, 2011 07:11 am
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May 17 11 03:09 am  Link 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,449
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Post hidden on May 17, 2011 07:11 am
Reason: violates rules
Comments:
Do not feed the trolls.
May 17 11 03:12 am  Link 
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