Model
Laura BrokenDoll
Posts: 3566
Modena, Emilia-Romagna, Italy
As just back from a hiatus, I'm planning to put up a casting call in order to collaborate with some photographers to get some new *hopefully* amazing stuff to revamp my portfolio. Being this a TF* offer from a not-that-bad nude model (  ), I'm expecting a huge feedback from photographers and I'll need to make a choice as I'm obviously looking for satisfying pictures to add. Now my question is: do you think it would sound rude if I got back to the ones I don't want to shoot with with my rates for the kind of shooting they were asking for in TF*? Or should I just answer back with a classic "thanks but your portfolio does not match what I'm looking for right now", and then wait for the photographer to ask my rates? Honestly, this second situation has ended up with the actual interest in my rates something like twice or thrice...  I imagine this happens because photographers assume I'm gonna ask for a compensation they can't/don't want afford, but being my rates rather low I'd like to let them know so they can think about it anyway. So, models, do you send your rates when you decline a TF* with a photographer? And you, photographers, do you find it rude? Thanks for your insights. 
Model
-Jen-
Posts: 46880
Howell, Michigan, US
 Moderator Warning! You cannot ask for pay in casting calls.
This includes the bait and switch. If they contact you about your casting call, you cannot ask them for pay because you dont want to shoot with them. Be professional and politely decline.
Photographer
Zachary Carpenter
Posts: 158
Trussville, Alabama, US
Here's what I would find acceptable if you sent me:
"Hi there! Unfortunately, your style of shooting doesn't reflect what I'm looking for, for this shoot. If you'd still like to work with me, in means other than TF, I'd be happy to work something out with you!"
Just my $.02
Model
-Jen-
Posts: 46880
Howell, Michigan, US
Moderator Warning! Zachary Carpenter wrote:
Here's what I would find acceptable if you sent me:
"Hi there! Unfortunately, your style of shooting doesn't reflect what I'm looking for, for this shoot. If you'd still like to work with me, in means other than TF, I'd be happy to work something out with you!"
Just my $.02 again, if he is replying to a casting call, this is against the rules.
Model
Laura BrokenDoll
Posts: 3566
Modena, Emilia-Romagna, Italy
-Jen- wrote:
You cannot ask for pay in casting calls.
This includes the bait and switch. If they contact you about your casting call, you cannot ask them for pay because you dont want to shoot with them. Be professional and politely decline. I'm about to post a casting call on another site, more concerning my country, not here on MM. But thanks for letting me know: I wasn't aware of this rule.
So, let's say it's not a casting call but a notice on my profile that says I'm available for limited TF* work.
Photographer
Flaming Ink Imaging
Posts: 1999
Washington, District of Columbia, US
If you advertise for TF(especially nudes) that throws a wide net and you'll get the huge mostly time wasting response. I think a targeted contact list with TF interest might yield better results for you. Chances are you'll get rate quotes, too, but that is just a normal statistical response and is not necessarily a reflection of your true value or worth. Providing rates is business not an insult, either way. I know I appreciate any honest communication from models, and compensation is just one detail that is negotiated in every contact. Careful with the critiques and justifications, though, as your opinion could turn away potential work.
Model
Tansy Blue
Posts: 318
Brighton, England, United Kingdom
I think that a "not looking to (blahblahblah)...feel free to consider me for other projects with differing compensation" works fine. I have my rates on my profile, which helps as people don't need to ask for them; if they fit somebody's budget they can just offer away.
Photographer
Abbitt Photography
Posts: 13562
Washington, Utah, US
Regardless of the MM rules or whether or not it's on MM, I believe that comes across as a bait and switch scam, will rub many the wrong way and may give you a reputation you don't want.
State in your casting that you will be selective and may not respond to most inquiries. Those who become aware of you, are free to contact you about paid work if they so desire.
(Note - I say that from my perspective here in the U.S. I can't speak specifically to Italy.)
Photographer
Fashion Photographer
Posts: 14388
London, England, United Kingdom
-Jen- wrote:
You cannot ask for pay in casting calls.
This includes the bait and switch. If they contact you about your casting call, you cannot ask them for pay because you dont want to shoot with them. Be professional and politely decline. I contact a lot of people out of the blue and offer to shoot them (for money). I only contact people who could genuinely use my services, and figure that I'm doing them a favour by offering my expertise.
But I also put up casting calls for tfp, and often get 50+ responses.
Are you saying that I can't offer my services to people just because they happen to reply to one of my numerous casting calls, but don't even fit the bill?
Example1: I contact someone and ask for pay. I see, after I sent the message, that they replied to a casting call of mine two days prior. I didn't realise it at the time. Have I broken the rules?
Example 2: I contact someone and ask for pay. They have previously replied to a casting call of mine, and, not fitting what I'm looking for, I've forgotten all about them. Have I broken the rules?
I would assume that that isn't prohibited, and no doubt what you are referring to is a situation where I immediately reply back to their message, saying 'sorry, you didn't make it, but if you pay me I'll shoot you." But for obvious reasons I just want to stay on the right side of the rules, so I would really appreciate it if you could confirm that I'm not breaking any by doing the above.
Photographer
Matt Schmidt Photo
Posts: 3709
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
It's important to know what your up against. Quoting rates are great to know . . . from Photographers, MUA's, Stylists and Models . . .
Photographer
Fashion Photographer
Posts: 14388
London, England, United Kingdom
Broken Doll wrote:
As just back from a hiatus, I'm planning to put up a casting call in order to collaborate with some photographers to get some new *hopefully* amazing stuff to revamp my portfolio.
Being this a TF* offer from a not-that-bad nude model ( ), I'm expecting a huge feedback from photographers and I'll need to make a choice as I'm obviously looking for satisfying pictures to add.
Now my question is: do you think it would sound rude if I got back to the ones I don't want to shoot with with my rates for the kind of shooting they were asking for in TF*?
Or should I just answer back with a classic "thanks but your portfolio does not match what I'm looking for right now", and then wait for the photographer to ask my rates?
Honestly, this second situation has ended up with the actual interest in my rates something like twice or thrice... I imagine this happens because photographers assume I'm gonna ask for a compensation they can't/don't want afford, but being my rates rather low I'd like to let them know so they can think about it anyway.
So, models, do you send your rates when you decline a TF* with a photographer?
And you, photographers, do you find it rude?
Thanks for your insights.
Forgetting about casting calls for a moment, when I was just starting with photography, I'd often send messages to models, offering to shoot them.
I'd be willing to pay them, but, not wanting to put my cards on the table, I kept silent about compensation.
The vast majority of people I contacted, in these early days, simply ignored me, or replied back with a curt 'not interested'. They simply assumed that I wanted to shoot them for free. Not so - if they had given me reasonable rates, chances are they would have gotten paid.
When they just rejected me outright, however, I just moved on to the next model.
If someone likes you enough to want to spend 4 hours shooting you, and countless hours retouching you, chances are you could weedle a few dollars out of them if you are good at negotiating.
Model
Amelia Talon
Posts: 1472
Seattle, Washington, US
Those who reply to your TF casting call want to work with you on TF, not because they want to pay you, so they more than likely won't be interested in your rates anyways.
It's like putting orange fish bait out to catch orange fish, you will catch orange fish, not blue or red.
Photographer
Isaiah Brink
Posts: 2328
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
-Jen- wrote:
You cannot ask for pay in casting calls.
This includes the bait and switch. If they contact you about your casting call, you cannot ask them for pay because you dont want to shoot with them. Be professional and politely decline. Just a quick question here, not arguing policy here but are casting calls solely meant on a trade basis or is there an option to indicate that things are going to be on a paid basis? I'm just curious thats all, nothing more.
Photographer
David D Photography
Posts: 230
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I have seen more and more Casting calls from Models asking for compensation. And even when someone points out that it is not allowed they do not change it.
Guess it comes down to do 1. do people read the rules? and 2. do they understand them?
I should correct that, I am sure it is Not just Models that do it!
Photographer
Gonzales Pictures
Posts: 432
Amarillo, Texas, US
Isaiah Brink wrote:
Just a quick question here, not arguing policy here but are casting calls solely meant on a trade basis or is there an option to indicate that things are going to be on a paid basis? I'm just curious thats all, nothing more. Casting calls can be for:
Negotiable (Either trade or the caster will pay the talent)
Trade (TFP or other non monetary compensation)
Pay (The caster pays for the chosen talent)
Unpaid Test (Caster does not guarantee any results and isn't paying)
Trade for VIP Membership (Caster will compensate by purchasing a one year VIP account for the chosen talent)
The idea is that whoever is casting for talent is the one with the idea who wants talent. If they are just offering their services then a travel or availability notice would be appropriate I.E. "I'm traveling and am willing to offer my services for..." or "I am available (here) and will work for this type of compensation:..."
Makeup Artist
LisaJohnson
Posts: 10525
Nashville, Tennessee, US
my advice then is to define the genre you are hoping to shoot in your casting call. in my world it would be "lifestyle, beauty, bridal, editorial fashion" etc. you need to have a firm vision/idea of what you're hoping to achieve in order to attact the appropriate people, imho. saying "hopefully amazing stuff" is vague. people need to define what they're looking for. you need to know the market you are seeking to attract.
Photographer
Pixelpower
Posts: 92
Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom
Tansy Blue wrote:
I think that a "not looking to (blahblahblah)...feel free to consider me for other projects with differing compensation" works fine.
I have my rates on my profile, which helps as people don't need to ask for them; if they fit somebody's budget they can just offer away. Read the fourth post on this thread. What part of that do you find difficult to understand? A moderator has pointed out, in clear language, that this is NOT allowed.
Body Painter
Extreme Body Art
Posts: 4938
South Jordan, Utah, US
-Jen- wrote:
You cannot ask for pay in casting calls.
This includes the bait and switch. If they contact you about your casting call, you cannot ask them for pay because you dont want to shoot with them. Be professional and politely decline. Pretty much.
Not because she is a Mod saying this.. but it would come across as a bait and switch EVEN if she was intending to find a "TF" photographer but didn't like some of the work he was presenting.
It is the same with "Paid Castings" saying to models.. "You don't have what I need for paid work right now.. but if you want to do TF... well.. I'm available"... Both are pretty much unacceptable AND against the rules.
All you can do is decline and then if on their own decide that you might be worth paying and then inquire of your rates.. you are then free to give them
Photographer
Pixelpower
Posts: 92
Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom
Unfortunately in my experience "bait and switch" is very common with MM casting calls. . In dozens of cases I have replied to TFP casting calls, only to find that the model asks for payment, often not till after the studio has been booked and all the arrangements made.
Model
Jaquii Gonzalez
Posts: 274
BRONX, New York, US
Does it work the other way where a photographer posts a test shoot casting but when a model replies they state the fee to do a test shoot? Is this against the rules as well?
Photographer
MN camera
Posts: 1862
Saint Paul, Minnesota, US
Bait and switch is not only rude (which is bad enough), it's also unethical.
Do you really want a reputation as unethical?
Model
JoJo
Posts: 26560
Clearwater, Florida, US
Jacqueline Gonzalez wrote:
Does it work the other way where a photographer posts a test shoot casting but when a model replies they state the fee to do a test shoot? Is this against the rules as well? Yes - this is bait and switch
Photographer
All Yours Photography
Posts: 2731
Lawton, Oklahoma, US
Isaiah Brink wrote:
Just a quick question here, not arguing policy here but are casting calls solely meant on a trade basis or is there an option to indicate that things are going to be on a paid basis? I'm just curious thats all, nothing more. There is an option for things to be on a paid basis if you are the one doing the paying. Basically a casting call is posting a "help wanted" job offer. You might be paying with cash or you might be paying with photos, but if you are doing the hiring, you are doing the paying.
If you want to post a "situation wanted" ad where you will be getting paid, it goes under "Travel/available".
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), I'm expecting a huge feedback from photographers and I'll need to make a choice as I'm obviously looking for satisfying pictures to add. 
I imagine this happens because photographers assume I'm gonna ask for a compensation they can't/don't want afford, but being my rates rather low I'd like to let them know so they can think about it anyway. 
Moderator Warning!