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Model
Axioma
Posts: 6,761
Gent, East Flanders, Belgium


A few days ago I was shooting with quite a good name in fashion. We were talking about the current aesthetics in fashion and nudity came up. To quote him, his view is:

"If you want to see beautiful nude images these days, you don't buy Playboy anymore, but magazines like Vogue and Harper's Bazaar. The models show it there too. (Fashion)models of today are nude, and that's the way it is."

The issue that playboy nudes (glamour) vs. Fashion nudes are not very comparable aside, what are your views on this?

I tend to agree with him. I'm not saying that models should pose nude (against their will), but I do think it's becoming a prerequisite more often.

Discuss, and do not troll.
Jan 04 12 06:10 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Koryn
Posts: 35,784
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I've definitely seen topless images, as well as images of braless models in sheer tops, in fashion magazines. There was a fair bit of nudity in W, at least a few years ago. I haven't looked through it recently.

Fashion uses sex appeal, and the allure of human beauty, to market products just as other industries do. If one model is not willing to meet demands of her employer, I'm sure there are 4,458 other ones to choose from, who will do so happily.
Jan 04 12 06:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
photodorset
Posts: 845
Bournemouth, England, United Kingdom


You often see catwalk models with visible breasts and also without underwear but nothing blatant. An advert on TV for perfume recently showed a model who was only wearing a raincoat. 'Sanex' a skin care product have had a series of TV commercials with nude models.

There is a grey area between fashion nudity and 'top shelf' magazines. Some 'lads mags' show nudes or girls in underwear posing in a sexual manner but because they don't show any 'bits' are considered non-porn.

As a European you know that bare breasts are common but I don't think fashion has got to the stage of showing a woman's 'bits' yet!!
Jan 04 12 06:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dark Shadows
Posts: 2,269
Miami, Florida, US


From studying photography, I know that fashion models regularly posed nude for photographers and artists, it's just that the editorial policies in place at the time were not inviting nude images.

Now the publications are slightly more open to it, and so is the public, hence you will see it more. I think it's a good trend. I certainly prefer working with people that think nudity is no big deal.
Jan 04 12 06:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


photodorset wrote:
As a European you know that bare breasts are common but I don't think fashion has got to the stage of showing a woman's 'bits' yet!!

You don't read Vogue Italia or Love magazine then wink

OP, yes, it is pretty much a pre-requisite in Europe for fashion models these days to be comfortable posing at least topless and on occasion fully nude.




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jan 04 12 06:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,442
Paris, Île-de-France, France


The first time I saw some nudity in fashion was likely Demarchelier pictures of Naomi Campbell painted like a native in Paris Vogue. I am sure there was more, I always had all the PAris and Italian Vogues when I was starting.

It was clear when she said in an interview she likes to show 'em. Kate Moss was to follow or lead , take your pick.

But even more importantly, when Elle MacPherson flashed her tits on film for Jay Miesel it was the point where undeniably Playboy would be replaced with fashion, nudity, etc.

Judging by the Pirelli calendars , fashion rags, there are no limits. Where can it go from here?

I question the relevance though of many shooters, insisting, when it just doesn't fit , nor has reason to be. Steven Miesel shoots with reason. So did/do all the other greats. Yet pick up any lesser magazine, and the nudity for fashion has gone wild, has no reason, no fantasy.

I prefer the magazines where it is clear , nudity for the sake of being naked stays as portraits, nude yes but are not trying to be something more.
Jan 04 12 06:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


i love the decadence of fashion nudes...glamour nudes dont interest me to much..
Jan 04 12 06:43 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


big_smile

(sorry, bakcing out of the thread again, I already had my fun :p)
Jan 04 12 06:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3,263
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany


Yup, I think so - at least on this side of the pond - I was test-shooting a prospective model yesterday who seriously wants to break into fashion-modelling. She ticks all the right boxes looks- and attitude-wise, apart from not wanting to work nude or topless - she even draws the line at swimsuit, 'dessous' or boudoir.

I told her straight, topless at a minimum is pretty much a prerequisite for serious fashion-modelling in Europe these days...and even as an internet model she won't be making any money till she sheds a few inhibitions along with her clothes.
Not with so many other girls working up to partial and implied-nude for trade...
Jan 04 12 06:45 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Axioma
Posts: 6,761
Gent, East Flanders, Belgium


Yay, so far so good smile. Not a trainwreck in sight yet and no trolls.
Would love to see the opinions coming. Feel free to chime in.
Jan 04 12 08:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ZingArts
Posts: 15,077
Westcliffe, Colorado, US


I think when it comes to fashion the adult male always wants to see the allusion of nude where actual nude isn't allowed. It is not just a selling point for the designer, it is also a selling point for the model that wants to keep (in this case) her name out front. Remember, we are talking fashion here where there is something called "clothing" to be sold. The better it can be displayed the better the sale.

That is a marked difference between magazines like Playboy (except when the ads in the magazine are selling clothing) and Vogue. I don't think J.C. Penny is ready for this.
Jan 04 12 08:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shawn Dawes Photography
Posts: 48
Belleville, Ontario, Canada


I too agree. I have seen many fashion nudes in photos, mags, videos ( which are now too becoming popular to have your show without the models on the runway) and are quite classy, discreet and more the norm. I have seen many great fashion images where it's as simple as one breast being exposed which you don't notice till later as your looking at all the other aspects of the photo. I think it will be a tougher sell on this side of the pond as most who have the true fashion look have no nudity posted whatsoever, on there profiles.
Jan 04 12 08:48 am  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 34,615
San Francisco, California, US


Have you looked at the website for IMG Models?  You might be surprised.
Jan 04 12 08:48 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Axioma
Posts: 6,761
Gent, East Flanders, Belgium


ei Total Productions wrote:
Have you looked at the website for IMG Models?  You might be surprised.

IMG = U.S. based smile
They have Kate moss and Lara Stone etc btw.

Jan 04 12 08:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mickle Design Werks
Posts: 5,949
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Mini_ wrote:
A few days ago I was shooting with quite a good name in fashion. We were talking about the current aesthetics in fashion and nudity came up. To quote him, his view is:

"If you want to see beautiful nude images these days, you don't buy Playboy anymore, but magazines like Vogue and Harper's Bazaar. The models show it there too. (Fashion)models of today are nude, and that's the way it is."

The issue that playboy nudes (glamour) vs. Fashion nudes are not very comparable aside, what are your views on this?

I tend to agree with him. I'm not saying that models should pose nude (against their will), but I do think it's becoming a prerequisite more often.

Discuss, and do not troll.

Noticed this years ago.

I brought this up with an editor for Vogue at Photo Plus in 2009 and she thought the idea of this was laughable. Looking through the magazines now guess it not so funny now.

Jan 04 12 09:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Through Elizabeths Eyes
Posts: 4,916
Yelm, Washington, US


ZingArts wrote:
I think when it comes to fashion the adult male always wants to see the allusion of nude where actual nude isn't allowed. It is not just a selling point for the designer, it is also a selling point for the model that wants to keep (in this case) her name out front. Remember, we are talking fashion here where there is something called "clothing" to be sold. The better it can be displayed the better the sale.

That is a marked difference between magazines like Playboy (except when the ads in the magazine are selling clothing) and Vogue. I don't think J.C. Penny is ready for this.

There's a huge difference between magazines like Vogue and Harper's Bazaar and the JCPenney catalogue. hmm

I think here in the States it's going to obviously take longer to catch hold than it has in Europe, but Europe already doesn't have the same taboo, prudish society that Americans have.

Jan 04 12 09:22 am  Link  Quote 
Model
- Aina -
Posts: 731
Redlands, California, US


Stefano Brunesci wrote:

You don't read Vogue Italia or Love magazine then wink

OP, yes, it is pretty much a pre-requisite in Europe for fashion models these days to be comfortable posing at least topless and on occasion fully nude.




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

This made me smile smile

Jan 04 12 09:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
stan wigmore photograph
Posts: 2,397
Long Beach, California, US


Nudity has always been used in Fashion in some way or another.There's nothing new about it,just  another generation  rediscovering something that has always been there.
Jan 04 12 09:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
blacquejack
Posts: 299
Charles Town, West Virginia, US


I tend to agree, but the "nudety" in fashion leaves more to the imagination, while Playboy shows tyhe whole farm
Jan 04 12 09:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,978
Chicago, Illinois, US


Check out V magazines Winter issue.   Its focus are agency models and see how many are nude.
Jan 04 12 09:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
here4art
Posts: 11
New York, New York, US


I think what editors, and photographers also, are looking for are models who are comfortable with their bodies. The partial/total nudity is a by-product, which helps the magazine by being more "cutting edge', like "did you see so and so nude in Vogue this month? (gasp)".
Fashion has always been about covering and revealing, sheer and opaque. The nudity isn't really sexual in fashion, how sexy can an anorexic 17 year old be? The fashion magazines are using our cultural bias which says nudity is shocking and scandalous to tittilate (sorry for the bad pun) us into buying magazines.
Jan 04 12 10:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Imagine Alexis
Posts: 3
Brooklyn, New York, US


The essence of fashion is to merge clothes with art. From an artistic stand it makes sense to excite senses, alarm convention and challenge whats perceived as proper by including more nude images in Fashion magazines. It pushes boundaries, and agencies need to assure their models can convey these artistic visions of the clients and photographers. so the prevalence of nudity is expected. However i have not seen any fashion magazines which showcase full anatomy. They understand it would question their integrity and might make their customers uncomfortable. The man picking up playboy is not the man picking up Vogue.
I do think magazines and world class photographers are careful in how they capture the feel they are going for, as opposed to many photographers who have more questionable motives. I see this as the danger for models. Though it might seem a prerequisite, it really isn't. If an agency does suggest a nude shoot to a model, they will only do so with photographers who they know will achieve a fashion look and not porn.
Though it might be the look, everyone cannot achieve said look, and should not intimidate models to feel obligated to.
Jan 04 12 10:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sospix
Posts: 21,123
Orlando, Florida, US


As a photographer that does a lot of fashion, I fully support this trend  .  .  .  wink

SOS
Jan 04 12 10:15 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Shei P
Posts: 385
Los Angeles, California, US


So, i guess eventually I'll have to get nekkider?....than I already have been
Jan 04 12 10:20 am  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
sdgillis
Posts: 2,422
Portland, Oregon, US


You guys clearly miss the market.  Vogue is targeted to a female audience, Playboy is for men.  The desire to have the girl next door is far from the ideology to aspire to an elegant form.
Jan 04 12 10:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
IMAK Photo
Posts: 515
Eureka, California, US


It is a waste of time flipping through 400 pages of ads for shoes and purses in the hopes of seeing a sheer top that shows a hint of nipple. Although I do admit the recent Dior ad with Charlize Theron in that slinky sheer dress is more exciting than most of the silicone advertisements you see in Playboy.
Jan 04 12 10:30 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Shei P
Posts: 385
Los Angeles, California, US


sdgillis wrote:
You guys clearly miss the market.  Vogue is targeted to a female audience, Playboy is for men.  The desire to have the girl next door is far from the ideology to aspire to an elegant form.

yep..

Jan 04 12 10:31 am  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,494
Los Angeles, California, US


here4art wrote:
I think what editors, and photographers also, are looking for are models who are comfortable with their bodies. The partial/total nudity is a by-product, which helps the magazine by being more "cutting edge', like "did you see so and so nude in Vogue this month? (gasp)".
Fashion has always been about covering and revealing, sheer and opaque. The nudity isn't really sexual in fashion, how sexy can an anorexic 17 year old be? The fashion magazines are using our cultural bias which says nudity is shocking and scandalous to tittilate (sorry for the bad pun) us into buying magazines.

Because all fashion models are anorexic. Clearly.

Jan 04 12 10:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Aperture_Photo
Posts: 476
Chicago, Illinois, US


Jan 04 12 10:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3,263
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany


here4art wrote:
I think what editors, and photographers also, are looking for are models who are comfortable with their bodies. The partial/total nudity is a by-product, which helps the magazine by being more "cutting edge', like "did you see so and so nude in Vogue this month? (gasp)".
Fashion has always been about covering and revealing, sheer and opaque. The nudity isn't really sexual in fashion, how sexy can an anorexic 17 year old be? The fashion magazines are using our cultural bias which says nudity is shocking and scandalous to tittilate (sorry for the bad pun) us into buying magazines.

Judging by the sheer amount of 'barely legal' porn sites, quite a lot I'd guess...

Jan 04 12 10:37 am  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 5,925
New York, New York, US


I'm not big on fashion, but it is very much my impression that posing nude on occasion is very much a normal part of modeling in all genres just as it has become common in film and on stage.  And frankly, that's been increasingly true for at least the better part of the past half-century or more.  My wife attended a very well known and respected theater school (which I won't name here) in the early '60s and one of the practices at that time was for a male teacher to drop in to the women's dressing room and for a female teacher to drop into the men's dressing room early in the first academic year on some pretext just to get them past some of that initial reserve.

If anything, I think that the ubiquity of the home-grown porn "industry" spawned by digital photography and video has created something of a backlash among models and actors just joining the professional ranks, leading them to claim that they won't do it, but over all I think that nudity is about as prevalent today as it was then, if not more so.
Jan 04 12 02:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tom deL
Posts: 3,689
Lexington, Ohio, US


Mini_ wrote:
A few days ago I was shooting with quite a good name in fashion. We were talking about the current aesthetics in fashion and nudity came up. To quote him, his view is:

"If you want to see beautiful nude images these days, you don't buy Playboy anymore, but magazines like Vogue and Harper's Bazaar. The models show it there too. (Fashion)models of today are nude, and that's the way it is."

The issue that playboy nudes (glamour) vs. Fashion nudes are not very comparable aside, what are your views on this?

I tend to agree with him. I'm not saying that models should pose nude (against their will), but I do think it's becoming a prerequisite more often.

Discuss, and do not troll.

As usual genre has little to do with anything.

Any nudes (call 'em glamour, erotic or anything you like) that are done with the skill and care of (high end) fashion nudes are going to be good. OTOH average amateur attempts at "fashion"; "art"; "glamour"; whatever nudes are going to tend toward the cheesy.

Jan 04 12 03:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Moore Photo Graphix
Posts: 5,288
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Tom deL wrote:

As usual genre has little to do with anything.

Any nudes (call 'em glamour, erotic or anything you like) that are done with the skill and care of (high end) fashion nudes are going to be good. OTOH average amateur attempts at "fashion"; "art"; "glamour"; whatever nudes are going to tend toward the cheesy.

this!

Jan 04 12 05:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bare Essential Photos
Posts: 3,224
Upland, California, US


Definitely, there are alot of healthy "plus size" models who are comfortable with their bodies and it shows when they do nudes. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe that's why there are more modeling opportunities for them throughout the industry, including but not limited to fashion.


Gabby
Jan 04 12 06:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Raoul Isidro Images
Posts: 5,973
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Fashion photography... i.e., the art of capturing a fabric draped over a model, is such an exciting and ever changing expression of the human creative experience...

Nudes... pseudo called as fashion... is like taking a picture of a Mannequin.

http://www.nan-yang.com.hk/files/Plastic%20Mannequin[3].jpg
Jan 06 12 03:16 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


Bare Essential Photos wrote:
Definitely, there are alot of healthy "plus size" models who are comfortable with their bodies and it shows when they do nudes. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe that's why there are more modeling opportunities for them throughout the industry, including but not limited to fashion.


Gabby

you seriously need to stop this.

Jan 06 12 03:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DA PHOTO
Posts: 1,517
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


models pose nude more than the celebrties do for magazines.

that is why the editors get them to pose nude.
otherwise the celebrities would get all the pages.

it is cheaper to get a model to pose nude than say madonna.
Jan 06 12 03:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,442
Paris, Île-de-France, France


DA PHOTO wrote:
models pose nude more than the celebrties do for magazines.

that is why the editors get them to pose nude.
otherwise the celebrities would get all the pages.

it is cheaper to get a model to pose nude than say madonna.

Somewhat true.

Madonna did lots of nudes starting with Herb Ritts so long ago. Miesel, Demarchelier, etc etc.

Just don't expect stars to do your average schlock online submission magazine.

Jan 06 12 03:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Digitoxin
Posts: 13,335
Houston, Texas, US


Quote from an ex-agency Booker I know:

"Fashion girls get naked.  Commercial girls don't"

While I don't completely agree with this, his point is well taken.
Jan 06 12 04:03 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Kittylove
Posts: 36
Syracuse, New York, US


Mini_ wrote:
A few days ago I was shooting with quite a good name in fashion. We were talking about the current aesthetics in fashion and nudity came up. To quote him, his view is:

"If you want to see beautiful nude images these days, you don't buy Playboy anymore, but magazines like Vogue and Harper's Bazaar. The models show it there too. (Fashion)models of today are nude, and that's the way it is."

The issue that playboy nudes (glamour) vs. Fashion nudes are not very comparable aside, what are your views on this?

I tend to agree with him. I'm not saying that models should pose nude (against their will), but I do think it's becoming a prerequisite more often.

Discuss, and do not troll.

I agree that models being nude is the new modern age. If I want to be paid for modeling, 99% of the time, I must be nude in order for the photographer to pay me for my work. I disagree with this in many ways. But, we all have our opinions. You can make art and glamour work without being nude. I refuse to be nude especially if I want to be a lawyer someday. I do not want it to come back to haunt me. As my husband says, they just want to see naked women..

Jan 06 12 04:11 am  Link  Quote 
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