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Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


Stefano Brunesci wrote:
We have no way of knowing whether the "NO NUDES" models a) actually make a living from modelling (as opposed to picking up £50 in pin money once every few months) and b) whether they in fact shoot nudes under an alias, as many models do...

I'd be willing to bet that the proportion of non-agency models on MM making a living from modelling while never shooting nudes or glamour is vanishingly small.



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Yes but the implication may be inferred that is glamour. I know that isn't what you mean. In fact I think a lot of glamour models are the ones who appear to struggle. Even fashion models have to be nude so I don't see an issue. I start a fit job naked apart from nude thong and heels. But if you have done glamour; it is something that fashion sometimes wants to distance itself from. But I know dozens and dozens of professional London girls agency and non who do a bit of fashion a bit of fine art nude a bit of alternative a bit of acting a bit of dance a bit of promotional and NO glamour.

And bear in mind I am not disputing that height is an issue. Just am not going to listen to photographers talk about garments being made to height because that is what they saw backstage when they were lucky enough to shoot a haute show when they do not witness 99.9% of the fashion biz; or suggest that the dresser doesn't juggle heels or that a short model looks out of proportion on the runway when you have the odd Kate Moss.

Jan 16 12 06:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Eliza C wrote:
Yes but the implication may be inferred that is glamour. I know that isn't what you mean. In fact I think a lot of glamour models are the ones who appear to struggle. Even fashion models have to be nude so I don't see an issue. I start a fit job naked apart from nude thong and heels. But if you have done glamour; it is something that fashion sometimes wants to distance itself from. But I know dozens and dozens of professional London girls agency and non who do a bit of fashion a bit of fine art nude a bit of alternative a bit of acting a bit of dance and NO glamour.

I'm not suggesting that everybody who does nudes shoots glamour - far from it.

Madame Bink makes her living as a fine art, lingerie and occasional latex model and resolutely refuses to shoot anything she considers to be 'glamour' regardless of the money on offer.

However, the OP has a very different look than either Madame Bink or your goodself smile



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jan 16 12 06:25 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


Stefano Brunesci wrote:
I'm not suggesting that everybody who does nudes shoots glamour - far from it.

Madame Bink makes her living as a fine art, lingerie and occasional latex model and resolutely refuses to shoot anything she considers to be 'glamour' regardless of the money on offer.

However, the OP has a very different look than either Madame Bink or your goodself smile



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Yes of course.
I wouldn't disagree. And wasn't suggesting that you meant glamour - but lots of the photographers here have the idea that nude means glamour hence qualified what I think you meant.

And I haven't said height is not an issue. Just that some of the reasons given aren't relevant. Next time you are wandering around oxford street take a detour off a  side street and look at some of the designers and seamstresses around there. They are producing stuff on the spot on fitting models. They aren't tall girls. Some are actually pretty short. But when a wholesale fashion outlet wants 30 size 8 garments by yesterday for a korean buyer height doesn't come into it at all.  They will call a fitting model or two that exact size not go to an agency. Then when they do a show the fitting models take part. You won''t see a photographer; but that is day in day out fashion jobs for models.

That isn't maybe what the op meant as fashion work either mind you! smile

Jan 16 12 06:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Matt Schmidt
Posts: 3,643
Greensboro, North Carolina, US


There are industry standards I suppose . . .

Fortunately, I have 'no standards' and will shoot anything/anyone/anytime . . . I am bound to nothing.
Jan 16 12 06:53 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MelissaYap
Posts: 6
Rotterdam, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands


Hi there, I did not read all the posts, but regarding your question, the answer is simple:

It's all about proportions and lines. The taller the model is, the more shows and editorials that person could do. I've never ever seen a fashion model in my entire career who's shorter than me (and I'm already 'petite', I guess). There just are no demands for the people of that height. Sorry.
Jan 16 12 07:14 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


MelissaYap wrote:
Hi there, I did not read all the posts, but regarding your question, the answer is simple:

It's all about proportions and lines. The taller the model is, the more shows and editorials that person could do. I've never ever seen a fashion model in my entire career who's shorter than me (and I'm already 'petite', I guess). There just are no demands for the people of that height. Sorry.

Well I read that kate Moss is 5ft 7 though some say 5ft 6. She must slouch a lot is all I can say smile I have been next to her in the same size heels and I definitely look taller. smile

I did quite a big runway show and only two of the models were taller than me; and not by much. Most was apparently 3 inches but looked less.

Most fitting models are around my height. Size is more important than height. I had to keep a strict size rrequirement over 2 years. Fitting models aren't editorial models apart from the odd lifestyle mag etc. They aren't agency models. But we are the ones running around from designer to designer day in day out and doing the odd runway shows even though we may be a bit shorter because the lines cannot look better than on the peson they were designed on.

But no; we won't get the top work or editorial work. But it is still fashion; and pay can be  okay. Plenty of editorial models with agencies on less pay over a year; some top editorial work pays nothing.

If I was 6ft 10" I still wouldn't get editorial work. smile

Jan 16 12 07:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 21,711
New York, New York, US


udor wrote:
So... how are your efforts progressing trying to convince the 5'11" models to wear flats on the runway to accommodate you???
Eliza C wrote:
In shows the models do one of two things . They either wear their own shoes; or the designer provides them; or a bit of both. Naturally the shorter girls wear the higher heels. This happens as a matter of course; or has done in every show I have done for a variety of designers and boutiques.

Dear Eliza;

I am directly involved in fashion show production and runway photography (NY Fashion Week), I work backstage, do staging and organizing props for the models on the runway and shoot often enough house.

I am involved in casting for designers and production companies, I also often measure the models heights without shoes, because sometimes there is a "misprint" on the compcards, where models can be up to 2 1/2 inches off (shorter than on the compcards)... where the latter figure happened only once and was the most extreme.

So, I am writing this simply so that you understand that when I am writing about those issues, I am not writing as someone who got their knowledge from America's Next Top Model or some other unrealistic tv crap that has nothing to do with the industry.

Okay... just got distracted, lost my train of thought... get back later

Jan 16 12 08:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Stephen Siaw
Posts: 2
Kota Kinabalu, Sabah, Malaysia


hi Samantha,
Why Does Height Matter In This Industry ?

Yes. Do commercial, glamour, acting, or smaller markets care anything about these sizes? Not much. Only if you want to work high fashion in the major markets.

It has been my experience that a fashion model that have photogenic faces and bodies, hands and feet, do not necessarily has 5'8".  Hand models, for example, are difficult to find and frequently a photographer uses one model for the face while another model's hands may be reaching into the picture. Of course the photographer makes it look like one person, but in fact there are two. Jewelry photographers look for good hands, a nice neck, and photogenic ears.
Jan 16 12 08:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 21,711
New York, New York, US


udor wrote:
Putting height and major fashion show in perspective... Would the garment on a five foot model be seen by the fashionistas in the remote seats?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/UdoRPhotoArchive/Miscellaneous/ModelHeights03.jpg?t=1255267536
Maria Michaela wrote:
I'm sorry, I agree with all the explanations being given here for why short models can't do (high)fashion, except for "because the rows in the back can't see a short model on the runway". Where did that come from exactly big_smile?

there are so many types of runways (and I do mean architecturally) that visibility is not really an issue. and if yoou're sitting in the back of a runway that doesn't give a fuck about how much the back row can see, you're going to see very little anyway. most people after the third row can only see half the outfit anyway...

Visibility as an argument = huh?

Hi Maria;

I tell you who gives a fuck about visibility... the designer!

After all, fashion week is an industry event where the people invited are industry insiders, buyers, editors etc. The designer wants that everybody invited is able to see the designs and hopefully they will generate business.

The designer spends a lot of money for the fashion show... which is not for entertaining the masses, like at those small local shows in bars and nightclubs.

And those are the shows I was talking about in that article with the images.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l1jvbkZNh51qb3yx5o1_500.png        ... smile

Jan 16 12 08:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shon D.- Femme
Posts: 24,369
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US


Eliza C wrote:

No we are not the exception to the rule. On the contrary; all the day in day out stuff showroom stuff and small shows; is done by fitting models with maybe a spattering of agency models. Unless it is London fashion week you just don't see the agency or top fashion models. I have not had an exceptional career just pretty normal journeyman stuff. With boutiques; young and new designers; college fashion shows etc  - and all the good ones do little shows - the normal thing is models like us; no way could they afford agency models but they want a liitle experience. Provincially the boutique shows can pay really well because they basically want a couple of good models to help girls with little experience but can't afford agency models. This is most of the paid journeyman fashion work; not the high fly glamour stuff people see a couple of weeks a year in the magazines.
There are four divisions below the premier league in soccer and dozens of regional leagues below that but it employs most professional footballers; even if they don't get a fraction of the money the premiership players are on. It is the same in fashion. Every now and again one of those players may get the chance with a premiership side.

I think the problem here is that people think 'fashion show' and they think the big designers; Milan shows etc. That is a very small % of paid work in fashion shows; and then you will get exclusively tall girls but even then you will get the odd Kate Moss. So does she look silly next to the 6ft models?

I have never come across a tall fitting model actually. As I stated my flatmates partner much shorter than me also did a lot of fitting modelling. It is the stats they want; and for the clothes to look good; enormous patience and input and the ability to model. So when they have done something you have to do your stuff then they make the alterations. In lingerie that is very important. If the stuff is designed on you it is going to look better on your than anyone so that is why they use fitting models in showroom (private shows for a few clients) and in runway shows.

I agree that taller girls get all the agency work. But not fitting; and fiitting is what an awful lot of us do; but you have to be in a metropolis famous for fashion. London is.
So the idea of a 5ft 11" template isn't right. I have done other fitting not just lingerie too. A 5ft 11" model may float a dress down the runway better but that doesn't mean it was made on someone her height; and to the eye of someone who does this work I think one can sometimes tell. Especially when they haven't much of a bust.

And yes size 3 (UK 8/10) is a US size 4.

That is the truth Shon. Below the tip of the iceberg of fashion height is still a factor but not so much. And Model Mayhem is generally going to be pretty much below the tip of the iceberg; but plenty of the journeyman paid work. Don't get me wrong; height is still a factor but stats and shape (and each designer has different requirements) can be more important. And yes of course; if you are shorter as a fitting model be prepared to stand in 6" heels day in day out. smile

I think part of the problem here is that many of the fashion photographers only see the top of the fashion iceberg and judge everything by that.

So basically, we agree that shorter women can have careers in fashion but that runway is not likely/nearly impossible. Coolsies!

Jan 16 12 08:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 21,711
New York, New York, US


Shon D.- Femme wrote:

So basically, we agree that shorter women can have careers in fashion but that runway is not likely/nearly impossible. Coolsies!

smile

Jan 16 12 08:42 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


Shon D.- Femme wrote:
So basically, we agree that shorter women can have careers in fashion but that runway is not likely/nearly impossible. Coolsies!

Yes I said that from the start.
But to say that the samples are made on very tall models so that is why they have to use tall models in a show is not true. And; that the small chance you would have as a shorter model doing runway would come from fitting modelling; which is regular and pays every day without question of tf; and is likely to lead to some runway. A fitting model model who keeps her figure is likely to be able to do it into her fifties; and still get to do the odd runway show; catalogue shoots etc. Whereas top runway even for top models is only a small amount of work and not always paid and the models have a shorter shelf life. And; that some runway models while the exception do not make the show look silly (eg KM). And; that models do not always all wear the same size heels. smile Now we're coolsies. smile I suppose we are talking about different things. I am talking about bog standard day in day out journeyman profressional fashion modelling with the odd small fashion shows; and others are talking about top runway which they see because they are photographers so they judge it all on that.

Jan 16 12 10:08 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


udor wrote:

Dear Eliza;

I am directly involved in fashion show production and runway photography (NY Fashion Week), I work backstage, do staging and organizing props for the models on the runway and shoot often enough house.

I am involved in casting for designers and production companies, I also often measure the models heights without shoes, because sometimes there is a "misprint" on the compcards, where models can be up to 2 1/2 inches off (shorter than on the compcards)... where the latter figure happened only once and was the most extreme.

So, I am writing this simply so that you understand that when I am writing about those issues, I am not writing as someone who got their knowledge from America's Next Top Model or some other unrealistic tv crap that has nothing to do with the industry.

Okay... just got distracted, lost my train of thought... get back later

That is what I said above. Because you are involved at that level you think it is all like that. It isn't. If they are asking you to cast for shows then you are already at the top 1% of shows. The ones specifically for magazines and fashion weeks.
They don't have castings for most run of the mill fashion shows. Most shows they take the four fitting models and 6 agency models if they are a top company. YOU would not be there. If there is a photographer it is a house photographer. No press - none. With good reason. We as fitting models have to sign to say we won't discuss the designs. The buyers see them; you don't; the public don't. 
Then there are small designers and student shows. Oh yes; they may cast on MM etc. But when one gets there the dresser is the designers mate as is the MUA. There may be three 5ft 10" models who have replied via MM or something; then there are 4 students who have never done it before; various heights; then there are a couple of models like me who get it from word of mouth.
Then there are the boutique and regional designer shows. What you get then is a few chic clients; a couple of fashion students; and any model with half a brain that looks good who is around. All different heights. I say half a brain because you have to talk as well as walk.
Now I have done probably two shows like the kind you describe and are involved with. And maybe 30 of the others. ALL were paid and sometimes very well. Now that is part of how I and other girls make their livings here. It isn't what you think of as fashion maybe; but most MM girls won't get a shot at that whatever height they are.

Jan 16 12 10:29 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Cy_n
Posts: 294
Saarbrücken, Saarland, Germany


Eliza-not to hijack this thread but have you ever tried at Glamour Model Agencies? They have tons of those where you live as far as I know smile You have a great figure and look .
Jan 16 12 10:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 21,711
New York, New York, US


Eliza C wrote:

That is what I said above. Because you are involved at that level you think it is all like that. It isn't. If they are asking you to cast for shows then you are already at the top 1% of shows. The ones specifically for magazines and fashion weeks.
They don't have castings for most run of the mill fashion shows. Most shows they take the four fitting models and 6 agency models if they are a top company. YOU would not be there. If there is a photographer it is a house photographer. No press - none. With good reason. We as fitting models have to sign to say we won't discuss the designs. The buyers see them; you don't; the public don't. 
Then there are small designers and student shows.

I should add that I also have been shooting so many of those smaller shows... much smaller ones... in clubs, restaurants and night clubs, even small churches... done by local designers, urban markets etc...

I am all too familiar with the "other 99%" of fashion shows... helped many times to produce those too and to cast the "short models" as well.

So... I am all around quite familiar... smile

Jan 16 12 10:36 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


Cy_n wrote:
Eliza-not to hijack this thread but have you ever tried at Glamour Model Agencies? They have tons of those where you live as far as I know smile You have a great figure and look .

I don't do glamour. I did classical fine art nude and then got asked to do a bit of fashion then got into fitting then got the job at Agent Provocateur.
I now just do part time and it's all fashion related. Not what some of the guys here mean by fashion; but the backroom girl modelling stuff and a regular spattering of small fashion shows plus showroom.
I am a University tutor as well as a PhD student so glamour is not something I would do. wink

Jan 16 12 10:36 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Cy_n
Posts: 294
Saarbrücken, Saarland, Germany


Eliza C wrote:

I don't do glamour. I did classical fine art nude and then got asked to do a bit of fashion then got into fitting then got the job at Agent Provocateur.
I now just do part time and it's all fashion related. Not what some of the guys here mean by fashion; but the backroom girl modelling stuff and a regular spattering of small fashion shows plus showroom.
I am a University tutor as well as a PhD student so glamour is not something I would do. wink

Awesome that you had the chance to model for AP .I would kill myself for a job like that LOL

Jan 16 12 10:40 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


udor wrote:
I should add that I also have been shooting so many of those smaller shows... much smaller ones... in clubs, restaurants and night clubs, even small churches... done by local designers, urban markets etc...

I am all too familiar with the "other 99%" of fashion shows... helped many times to produce those too and to cast the "short models" as well.

So... I am all around quite familiar... smile

Ok then you also know that there are shorter models. And that Agency models frequently aren't a viable financial option. And that sometimes it is even the companies clients daughters and mums; or the designers mates! So there are all different shapes and sizes; with a spattering of pro models; often rdawn from the fine art, alt and fitting modelling networks. And those  models like myself and my friends in London make a living from that stuff ; sometimes we aren't that tall; and height is not as important as a bit of experience! smile Then there are the shows for trade for larger designers; which also makes up a lot of it; and press are strictly prohibited. Next seaons designs they don't want outsiders to see.

Jan 16 12 10:42 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


Cy_n wrote:
Awesome that you had the chance to model for AP .I would kill myself for a job like that LOL

It was cool yes. Standing in heels for 8 hours a day while you are pulled about and getting lumps of flesh caught in catches and zips can be stressful! The runway and showroom stuff and merchandise shoots is just a small part of it. But fitting modelling is still cool if you are interested in fashion. To work with a world renowned designer and her team; and see them design beautiful stuff on you  was very special yes. smile

Jan 16 12 10:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 21,711
New York, New York, US


Eliza C wrote:

Ok then you also know that there are shorter models. And that Agency models frequently aren't a viable financial option.

I am not sure how that is "over there"... but here... those small fashion shows usually don't pay at all, but it is for "exposure"...

I don't knock those smaller shows... they are a lot of fun... etc. but it would be really, REALLY tough trying to make a living at a 5'5" model doing one unpaid fashionshow after the other... the landlord wants to get paid in cash, and not runway shots...

So... if you are too short for regular runway... you've got to find other avenues for the revenues.

Jan 16 12 01:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DoubleDare Studios
Posts: 977
Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, US


Steve Korn wrote:

uhh...Spud Webb?

I was going to mention that...

Jan 16 12 01:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


udor wrote:
I am not sure how that is "over there"... but here... those small fashion shows usually don't pay at all, but it is for "exposure"...

I don't knock those smaller shows... they are a lot of fun... etc. but it would be really, REALLY tough trying to make a living at a 5'5" model doing one unpaid fashionshow after the other... the landlord wants to get paid in cash, and not runway shots...

So... if you are too short for regular runway... you've got to find other avenues for the revenues.

I have never done a fashion show unpaid. And most of them have been small.
Sometimes the smaller they are the better they pay. Rather like some photographers. The big ones often expect you tf. The small ones they are happy to pay.
I and many of my model friends in London do make a good proportion of their living that way. If you are a fitting model for a big company you are going to be doing showroom; and odd runway shows . Then the clients that see you who have boutiques want you for their shows. That is how it works. And the landlord was happy with my paying the rent on time smile

I think my revenue from fashion shows was about £4 -£5 k the year before I semi retired (including the odd extras like dresses; lingerie etc) . Which is far more than I got from photoshoots. I think that would be the same for quite a few fitting models. Quite often it is the bigger shows that expect you to do it for free for 'exposure'. I don't bother applying for such castings; firstly because there is no pay and secondly - because of the height restriction lol No seriously; even if I was tall I wouldn't get them. The ones I get it is because they are pleased to get a model with some AP fitting and runway experience and are happy to pay. Small shows. They pay. And for good reason. A model that grafts with the prospective clients; and has some presence; that is worth something more than a couple of inches. As I said one of my freinds is an actress. She is short but if I was a designer I'd use her if I wanted sales; and frequently many - possibly most - shows are about that not just the PR glitz associated with the big fashion week ones. And at trade shows; you strictly don't get press; and at the smaller ones it may be the local lifestyle press that's it. So I think you don't see as much of the paid fashion work for models as you think; or; if you do shoot in house then you'd know what I am saying is true: that the fitting models are not necessarily tall and are used.

Jan 17 12 06:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 21,711
New York, New York, US


Eliza C wrote:
So I think you don't see as much of the paid fashion work for models as you think; or; if you do shoot in house then you'd know what I am saying is true: that the fitting models are not necessarily tall and are used.

As I said... it seems to be completely different with the pay structure in London, than in NY, especially for the small shows.

Jan 17 12 12:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


udor wrote:
As I said... it seems to be completely different with the pay structure in London, than in NY, especially for the small shows.

I think possibly you don't have so much production there? So much of it here is trade and at all levels; hundreds of designers from small new designers to students to rag trade to top design houses and they are actually designing stuff here; workshops; head offices; showrooms etc.  I'd say there is a shortage of models in London for fashion because even the top design houses don't want to pay an Agency for the day in day out stuff. Paris would be the same.

Funnily enough I have just been asked to do a Charity fashion show in March in London. I will do that for free because it is a good cause; top designer and great clothes. But that will be the first I have ever done without pay; and that is my choice. But every other show I have done I have been paid for.

Jan 17 12 04:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Elise Nguyen
Posts: 1
Portland, Oregon, US


I love your post about having petite models. And yes, by 2014, all that will come true. Why? Because I, myself was a model for this fashion company for a very long time. I am 5'3. They accepted me. But half year later, they wanted to let me go because some of their clothes wouldn't fit me because i am short. But if you really look at it, When short girls wear heels, or high heel boots, it makes u as tall as 5'7 5'8....and i hate how agenciies only want tall models...Well by 2014, I will open my own fashion company store...Alot of asians are petite, And so am i. I will make petite clothing for petite ppl and also long clothing for tall ppl to sell at my store. and you know what? I WILL HIRE MODELS WHO ARE ABOUT 5'2 TO 5'6 TO BE MY STORE'S FASHION MODEL...The only thing the model gotta do is wear heels to look tall in the photoshoot, No difference. So if you want to be a fashion model, you can wait until my store opens, then come for interview...I will ONLY hire short models to give all the short models in the world hope in becoming a fashion model. smile
Jan 30 13 04:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Star
Posts: 17,904
Los Angeles, California, US


Samantha Schiumo wrote:
Just Curious...

Why does Height matter in this industry????

I'm 5'4 & 130lbs (mostly all muscle)

I've been told by MANY photographers that "You're too muscular to do editorial" "You're too short for fashion" "You're too fat to even model"
Just like EVERY model in this modeling world, I've heard every critique in the book. Now, it doesn't get under my skin anymore...except the height issue.

I know there are petite agencies out there but, I believe there isn't enough compared to the high fashion world. For years I've been trying to get represented either in the fitness, commercial or petite field but, the majorirty of agencies all focus on the beautiful 5'8 & up models. I feel like us "little people" deserve more credit than we recieve. Why are we..well..neglected compared to the "tall models?" We breathe the same air so, why can't we walk the same walk or pose the same pose?
I'm pretty sure if you put a $10,000 diamond necklace piece on a 5'8 model, it'll look just as good if a 5'4 model wears it.
I'm pretty sure if a 5'8 model struts her stuff on the runway wearing Victoria Secret lingerie, it'll look just as sexy if a 5'4 model does her diva walk.
What do "tall models" have that "We" don't? Just longer legs or am I missing something? I don't get it.

For example, I met with an agent yesterday & she was shocked to hear I was 5'4. She said in my photos I looked 5'8...Also, not trying to toot my own horn but a few years ago I did a runway show & it was me & another petite model surrounded by five other tall beautiful skyscrapping woman! After the show the owner of the fashion line pulled me aside & said I was the best walker! Ofcourse hearing these compliments build my confidence yet I can't help but it go through one ear & out the other because my height will never take me to "new heights!"

I believe all models are equal yet unique in their own way! We're not perfect but we do share the same passion! We have our strengths & weaknesses! I just don't understand why popular agencies are strict regarding height..No matter what size we are, we all deserve to prove our talent is one of a kind smile

**And please don't misinterpret my message into thinking I have grudges against "tall people!" I'm just honestly & sincerely curious on who made this "rule book" on why it seems like the taller you are, the further you succeed in modeling.**

God Bless!!!! smile

you will also never be in the Olympics as a female basketball player.

the only time we can talk about finding a way around height is for fashion models who are 13 or younger.

Jan 30 13 04:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Star
Posts: 17,904
Los Angeles, California, US


Eliza C, just about everything you say doesn't apply to the broader world of fashion modeling. You talk a lot about what Mom and Pop shops do, but none of that has anything to do with actually doing fashion modeling.

ANYONE IN THIS THREAD who is in doubt walk into any major agency and look at their wall of cards.

ANYONE IN THIS THREAD who is in doubt open any major fashion magazine and google the campaign to find out about the model.

There are two ways to be in a major campaign if you are not agency standard.

1. Be independently famous

2. be related to someone involved in the making of the campaign
Jan 30 13 05:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GNapp Studios
Posts: 6,184
Somerville, New Jersey, US


"What do "tall models" have that "We" don't?"

Proportions....and a lot of money.
Jan 30 13 05:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fotticelli
Posts: 11,988
Lorton, Virginia, US


Samantha Schiumo wrote:
Just Curious...

Why does Height matter in this industry????

Like just about everything else, it has to do with human instincts. Many teenagers are lanky so tall and slim represents youth and sexual vitality. It also means health (being overweight is unhealthy) and self-control. That is not my opinion, that is what smart evolutionary biologists say.

Jan 30 13 06:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shon D.- Homme
Posts: 3,185
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US


Edit.

Fucking zombie thread.
Jan 30 13 07:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1,020
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Samantha Schiumo wrote:
I'm pretty sure if a 5'8 model struts her stuff on the runway wearing Victoria Secret lingerie, it'll look just as sexy if a 5'4 model does her diva walk.

Well, "sexy" is subjective.

They wouldn't look the same.

These girls look proportionately different.   ... Very much so.   

Plus, a 5'4" woman would look small on the runway; even in (walkable) heels, they'd *maybe* hit 5'8"? -- the models you see, in heels, are well over 6'0".

Also, VS models are fashion-height, but they're really more commercial than fashion.
Very few models, period, have true agency-standard catwalk bodies.

Jan 30 13 07:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fotografica Gregor
Posts: 4,065
Alexandria, Virginia, US


Height matters because the people who pay the bills require models to fit their couture sample sizes, and these have been chosen to be most flattering to the couture.

it is a business and the client gets to make these decisions -

there are plenty of opportunities to model outside of the fashion biz

even to make money if you're willing to shoot noodz....
Jan 30 13 07:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
V for Victory Modeling
Posts: 436
Roseville, California, US


I agree with the others that although unrealistic, clothing looks better on taller models versus shorter models. That doesn't mean shorter models shouldn't model. We need all kinds of models, petite, plus, tall etc etc. And you're never too fat too model. In my opinion, I don't find most fashion models attractive because they look emaciated.
Jan 30 13 07:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jersey Shore
Posts: 401
Tinton Falls, New Jersey, US


Jay Hooker Images wrote:
I think it depends on what your modeling and who your modeling for. Height matters most for fashion for the reasons that other people have mentioned. However for glamour, art, fetish, etc. Its not a big deal. Just find a niche and go with it. Don't try to be something you'r not.

all great responses, however, i think this one sums it up perfectly... don't try to be something you are not. it can only lead to utter frustration.

Jan 30 13 07:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bobby C
Posts: 1,630
Portland, Oregon, US


Dean Johnson is "only"  5'7"  ( short by supermodel standards )!
Feb 02 13 02:15 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Scarlett Renee
Posts: 217
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


Its really simple. I think we've all heard and experienced "Well that looked better on the hanger"

A tall, lanky, thin fashion model better simulates a hanger.

(please dont take that as a snarky comment against fashion models, not how it's meant)

Tis life.
Feb 02 13 02:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
money_train
Posts: 51
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


it is the rules
Feb 05 13 06:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Carl Blum Photography
Posts: 544
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Connor Photography wrote:
You are very pretty, no doubt.  But when it comes to modeling, everything is matter down to their toenail.  Whoever pays the bill calls the shot.

+1

The First Second and Fourth photos in my Port are girls under 5'4" They all get work.

Fashion models are in reality, nothing more than Clothes hangers for product, you are not a fashion model.

Just about everything else is open for you.

Feb 05 13 07:06 am  Link  Quote 
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1,020
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Bobby Ctkr wrote:
Dean Johnson is "only"  5'7"  ( short by supermodel standards )!

And there's only one Dean Johnson, who was scouted when she was young and was already famous before she was finished growing.   

If she had been 18 years old walking into a fashion agency, they probably would have told her "no, you're too short".   But they may have encouraged her for commercial/talent.  Who knows.

Kate is exceptional - in that she is the exception - and her story cannot be used as a way to encourage short llamas to pursue their dreams as fashion llamas.

There's hundreds of working (and aspiring) fashion llamas who are standard size, 5'9" .   Shorter llamas (short = 5'8"-5'6"), if they have the right look, are commercial/lifestyle/talent llamas.  Anything shorter than 5'6" just isn't marketable.   Why?  Because posing with a baby/child or 6'0" man just doesn't look proportionate when the girl is 5'4" and tiny.  If llamas under 5'6" get mainstream work, it's often because they're needed for a specific project or know someone in the industry who got them in.

Sorry, but it is an industry where you do have to be taller than average, and you do have to fit certain measurements.

Feb 05 13 07:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jim McSmith
Posts: 745
Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom


Height matters because taller girls prevent the photographer getting a bad back. With girls under 5ft 8 you have to stoop too much.
Feb 05 13 07:27 am  Link  Quote 
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