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Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Art of CIP wrote:
Interesting - I see religion as discipline.  It presents a strict guideline that not everyone can adhere to.  No one can ever achieve all of things religion demands.  But that is also the same of any system that humans choose to better themselves.  Self improvement is never an easy path - to live according to something outside of your own beliefs is very difficult.  But in the end - it just another way that humans seek to be better than they are.

Give some examples of how religion makes one better ?  Can you back it up with stats?

Jan 15 12 02:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Light Writer
Posts: 18,387
Oakland, California, US


Extreme Body Art wrote:
Now you are getting into "Does God exist?"

If you do not believe he exists.. there is no sin and you are fine.
There are many beliefs out there on the existence of God and many believe you can pick your favorite and live your life the way you see fit... in other words "Pick a belief system that fits best to the way you WANT to live" vs finding the truth in yourself if you think it is even possible to find the truth.

The premise of the question was the existence of a god, there can't be sins against a god which doesn't exist. So the premise of the question must be addressed before the question can be addressed.

The question may as well have been "Is Sauron watching your photoshoot?" Will Orcs be searching you for Rings?

Jan 15 12 02:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Body Painter
Extreme Body Art
Posts: 4,932
West Jordan, Utah, US


Art of CIP wrote:
Nudity is not a Christian sin.  Lust is.  However - if you walk down the street naked, it is against the law.  Go figure - the church is OK with nudity, but the US government is not...  Hmmmm
ThatLook Visual Media wrote:
So you're saying your Church allows women to strip naked in service and dance to the choir?  The preacher can drop his pants to emphasize a point during his sermon?
Art of CIP wrote:
Nope - you are saying that.
ThatLook Visual Media wrote:
YOU said the Church is OK with nudity.  So I'm giving you hypotheticals to test your assertion.

If the organist dropped his pants and played a solo with no hands, would that be OK ?

Depending on where you live, it's the law of MAN that would make it NOT OK.

Assuming there was no such thing as "Indecent exposure" (which is a different subject altogether.. as I don't see anything indecent about nudity.. but I digress).. He would be just fine.

And yes, that would be OK.

But some people might be uptight about him exposing himself (or herself if it was female) there would be no sin if he/she did that.

Jan 15 12 02:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


Niall Photo wrote:

As soon as there is evidence of a god's existence then I'll let you know. If no gods exist then their laws are meaningless. The rules of common human decency take precedence. "Treat others as you want to be treated" is among the best rules.

The question isn't really relevant- one could just as easily ask you, how can you expect any good to come to you when you do not follow Shiva's guidance? or Why do you risk bringing ruin to our community by ignoring Nah-too-si?

One cannot sin against a god that doesn't exist. The only thing that matters is how we treat each other and ourselves, giving respect for respect and tolerance for tolerance.

Yet the concept still remains...  But your analysis and subsequent redefinition is entertaining...

Jan 15 12 02:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SKPhoto
Posts: 25,779
Newark, California, US


Niall Photo wrote:
The rules of common human decency take precedence. "Treat others as you want to be treated" is among the best rules.

Why?


Niall Photo wrote:
The only thing that matters is how we treat each other and ourselves, giving respect for respect and tolerance for tolerance.

Why?

Jan 15 12 02:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Extreme Body Art wrote:
But some people might be uptight about him exposing himself (or herself if it was female) there would be no sin if he/she did that.

Most churches get bent out of shape when a women wears the same outfit that she wore to the club last night.

"Churches are OK with nudity" is a big lie.

Jan 15 12 02:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:

Give some examples of how religion makes one better ?  Can you back it up with stats?

A fairly simple question to answer as many of the things taught in religion are reinforced throughout society.  Simple concepts such as honesty, strong work ethic, fairness, love, sacrifice, charity, and a host of other moral standards all improve the person.  Wouldn't you agree?

Jan 15 12 02:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Light Writer
Posts: 18,387
Oakland, California, US


SKPhoto wrote:

Niall Photo wrote:
The rules of common human decency take precedence. "Treat others as you want to be treated" is among the best rules.

Why?



Why?

1. Because it gives insight into the feelings of others, and one can learn that treating others decently is beneficial to everyone.

2. Because it helps the world get along.

It's an interesting problem, excessive selfishness seems to be at the root of so many problems in societies. If we shared a common value for tolerance and shared rather than acquired greedily, maybe our society would be better?

Seems like a reasonable way to behave, live and let live, but don't tread on me or I'll bite you? I conjecture.

Jan 15 12 02:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Light Writer
Posts: 18,387
Oakland, California, US


Art of CIP wrote:

Yet the concept still remains...  But your analysis and subsequent redefinition is entertaining...

then my woohk heya is complete
lol

Jan 15 12 02:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:
Give some examples of how religion makes one better ?  Can you back it up with stats?
Art of CIP wrote:
A fairly simple question to answer as many of the things taught in religion are reinforced throughout society.  Simple concepts such as honesty, strong work ethic, fairness, love, sacrifice, charity, and a host of other moral standards all improve the person.  Wouldn't you agree?

None of those are religious traits.  They are positive traits religion has adopted from general society.

Again, what uniquely religious traits, make one a better person?  Because the ones you've stated are not exclusive to religious folk at all.

Jan 15 12 02:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:
Most churches get bent out of shape when a women wears the same outfit that she wore to the club last night.

"Churches are OK with nudity" is a big lie.

And yet there are religious themed works of Art such as this commisioned by the church...
http://smarthistory.khanacademy.org/assets/images/images/michelangelo_david2.jpg

Jan 15 12 02:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert Lynch
Posts: 2,482
Bowie, Maryland, US


SKPhoto wrote:
Christians People will avoid or label certain things as sin because -

FTFY

The issues you raise cross multiple religious groups, not just Christians.

Jan 15 12 02:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Art of CIP wrote:

And yet there are religious themed works of Art such as this commisioned by the church...
http://smarthistory.khanacademy.org/assets/images/images/michelangelo_david2.jpg

STOP IT!   I have yet to see that inside of any modern day church.

Jan 15 12 02:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:

STOP IT!   I have yet to see that inside of any modern day church.

Probably because Michelangelo only made one... hmm

Jan 15 12 02:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Art of CIP wrote:
Probably because Michelangelo only made one... hmm

...and no one in modern times has dared to duplicate it for use in a Church.

The Church is not OK with nudity.

You missed my question...

Jan 15 12 02:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:

ThatLook Visual Media wrote:
Give some examples of how religion makes one better ?  Can you back it up with stats?

None of those are religious traits.  They are positive traits religion has adopted from general society.

Again, what uniquely religious traits, make one a better person?  Because the ones you've stated are not exclusive to religious folk at all.

On the contrary - they are religious traits.  Every religious text I've studied - and I've studied multipe texts from multiple religions all teach these things.  Unfortunately for you - religion is not.something that you can fit into a nice, neat little box to fit your own personal beliefs...  Believe it or not, many of the same high moral ideals that exist in society also exist in religion...

Jan 15 12 02:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:

...and no one in modern times has dared to duplicate it for use in a Church.

The Church is not OK with nudity.

You missed my question...

Hmmmm...  Quite amusing as I took classical drawing classes in church as a youth...  Hmmm...

Jan 15 12 02:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Art of CIP wrote:

On the contrary - they are religious traits.  Every religious text I've studied - and I've studied multipe texts from multiple religions all teach these things.  Unfortunately for you - religion is not.something that you can fit into a nice, neat little box to fit your own personal beliefs...  Believe it or not, many of the same high moral ideals that exist in society also exist in religion...

I never said any of them were mutually exclusive...where did you get that?  I said that none of those traits are uniquely religious nor did they originate in religion.

Still, I see you can't answer the question.

Jan 15 12 02:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Art of CIP wrote:

Hmmmm...  Quite amusing as I took classical drawing classes in church as a youth...  Hmmm...

Emphasis on "classical".  Certainly they wouldn't let you draw the preacher naked or the girl sitting next to you wink

Jan 15 12 02:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:

Emphasis on "classical".  Certainly they wouldn't let you draw the preacher naked or the girl sitting next to you wink

It would appear that two things are going on here.
1). You clearly are unaware of what classical art training entails...
2).  You think every church is like the ones you've been to...

Jan 15 12 03:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Art of CIP wrote:
It would appear that two things are going on here.
1). You clearly are unaware of what classical art training entails...
2).  You think every church is like the ones you've been to...

Whatever dude... roll

The Church is NOT OK with nudity.

Jan 15 12 03:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:
Whatever dude... roll

The Church is NOT OK with nudity.

Classical art training is figurative in nature and consists of anatomical studies and drawings from nude models... Face it man, you attended a screwed up church, and you think all churches are the same - I got a solid foundation in the Arts from mine.  Apparently your church was against nudity...  hmm

Jan 15 12 03:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Art of CIP wrote:

Classical art training is figurative in nature and consists of anatomical studies and drawings from nude models... Face it man, you attended a screwed up church, and you think all churches are the same - I got a solid foundation in the Arts from mine.  Apparently your church was against nudity...  hmm

You're being totally evasive to my points.

Jan 15 12 03:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
-Photographer X-
Posts: 101
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


Art of CIP wrote:
Classical art training is figurative in nature and consists of anatomical studies and drawings from nude models... Face it man, you attended a screwed up church, and you think all churches are the same - I got a solid foundation in the Arts from mine.  Apparently your church was against nudity...  hmm
ThatLook Visual Media wrote:
You're being totally evasive to my points.

No you are totally missing the COMPLETE point...

It's not the CHURCH.. it's the PEOPLE.

The CHURCH and it's writings say NOTHING about nudity and it being a sin...  conservative and uptight PEOPLE say it is a sin.

Jan 15 12 03:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


^^^Awww c'mon...the Church IS the people!
Jan 15 12 03:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:

You're being totally evasive to my points.

It's not evasive at all.  My experiences are different from yours and my religious experiences and views do not match yours.  Fairly simple stuff.

Jan 15 12 03:47 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Justin
Posts: 21,546
Fort Collins, Colorado, US


If the church is OK with nudity, why is the crucified Jesus always shown with a loincloth?
Jan 15 12 03:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
New Kidd Imagery
Posts: 1,909
South Salt Lake, Utah, US


Justin wrote:
If the church is OK with nudity, why is the crucified Jesus always shown with a loincloth?

Good point..

Wasn't Jesus Christ actually crucified completely naked?

Jan 15 12 03:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Body Painter
Extreme Body Art
Posts: 4,932
West Jordan, Utah, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:
^^^Awww c'mon...the Church IS the people!

No it isn't.

If people believe one thing and the church writes something completely contrary to what the "people" say.. the church doesn't change to fit to what the people say.

It's the church's job to fix any "False" understandings of what is being taught.. not the other way around.

Jan 15 12 03:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


Justin wrote:
If the church is OK with nudity, why is the crucified Jesus always shown with a loincloth?

Crucifixion was a Roman execution technique.  The execution of Christ is a fairly sanitized subject matter.  After all - crucifixion is fairly gruesome, the images are cleaned up as much as possible.  Let's face it, an accurate, gruesome portrayal of a Roman execution via crucifixion isn't exactly something folks want be to looking at as the choir sings.

Jan 15 12 04:05 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Justin
Posts: 21,546
Fort Collins, Colorado, US


New Kidd Imagery wrote:
Good point..

Wasn't Jesus Christ actually crucified completely naked?

That's generally what the Romans did with those folks. And according to the Bible, they shucked him down and cast lots to see who got his clothes.

Jan 15 12 04:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gianantonio
Posts: 7,712
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


New Kidd Imagery wrote:
This is a serious question.
This is not directed at any one model as I have had about 3 or 4 models reply to my inquiries about nude modeling and they reply saying "I don't pose nude because I'm Christian".

But I have photographed quite a few "Christian" models in the nude. So if it is against the Christian belief to pose nude, why are there models that ARE Christian posing nude?

Are they sinning?

Your logic skills need some work. That some Christians pose nude has nothing to do with the fact that others don't. Not every Christian follows the rules. And the rules are different for the different favors of Christianity.

Beyond that, I don't think any flavor of christianity says nudity is a sin.

Jan 15 12 04:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert Sawin
Posts: 6,740
Carlsbad, California, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:

Most churches get bent out of shape when a women wears the same outfit that she wore to the club last night.

"Churches are OK with nudity" is a big lie.

You know I adressed this issue in my statement BUT NOOO just ignore me.  hmm

Jan 15 12 04:16 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Justin
Posts: 21,546
Fort Collins, Colorado, US


Art of CIP wrote:
Crucifixion was a Roman execution technique.  The execution of Christ is a fairly sanitized subject matter.  After all - crucifixion is fairly gruesome, the images are cleaned up as much as possible.  Let's face it, an accurate, gruesome portrayal of a Roman execution via crucifixion isn't exactly something folks want be to looking at as the choir sings.

We've been to different churches. I've seen plenty of representations with the spikes driven through palms or wrists, through the feet, the crown of thorns on the head, blood flowing freely, and the subject looking up in agony. Never has the divine penis seen sunlight in those images, though.

Look, this is a real stretch. You look at the Catholic Church's ratings of movies, and why they rated them, prior to the MPAA. Look at Catholic school uniforms. Look at depictions of Adam and Eve and the Crucifixion. Julius II and his embrace of Michaelangelo's work notwithstanding, yes, the church has had a big problem with nudity. I was in it. I know.

Jan 15 12 04:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


Justin wrote:

We've been to different churches. I've seen plenty of representations with the spikes driven through palms or wrists, through the feet, the crown of thorns on the head, blood flowing freely, and the subject looking up in agony. Never has the divine penis seen sunlight in those images, though.

Look, this is a real stretch. You look at the Catholic Church's ratings of movies, and why they rated them, prior to the MPAA. Look at Catholic school uniforms. Look at depictions of Adam and Eve and the Crucifixion. Julius II and his embrace of Michaelangelo's work notwithstanding, yes, the church has had a big problem with nudity. I was in it. I know.

Such is your experience.  I've seen many churches, and not all of them are the same as yours was.  In fact, none of them are. Sorry your church provided you such a poor experience.

Jan 15 12 04:31 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Justin
Posts: 21,546
Fort Collins, Colorado, US


Art of CIP wrote:
Such is your experience.  I've seen many churches, and not all of them are the same as yours was.  In fact, none of them are. Sorry your church provided you such a poor experience.

The National Legion of Decency was not part of the church I went to - although we were supposed to be very mindful of the Legion's ratings.

Jan 15 12 04:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tim Little Photography
Posts: 11,524
Wilmington, Delaware, US


New Kidd Imagery wrote:

Good point..

Wasn't Jesus Christ actually crucified completely naked?

no

Jan 15 12 04:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Christopher Willingham
Posts: 21,859
Long Beach, California, US


Justin wrote:

The National Legion of Decency was not part of the church I went to - although we were supposed to be very mindful of the Legion's ratings.

Sorry   your church experience was a poor one.

Jan 15 12 04:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Body Painter
Extreme Body Art
Posts: 4,932
West Jordan, Utah, US


New Kidd Imagery wrote:
Good point..

Wasn't Jesus Christ actually crucified completely naked?
Tim Little Photography wrote:
no

Yes.

Romans crucified everyone without clothes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion

Jan 15 12 04:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThatLook Visual Media
Posts: 6,420
Nashville, Tennessee, US


ThatLook Visual Media wrote:
You're being totally evasive to my points.
Art of CIP wrote:
It's not evasive at all.  My experiences are different from yours

We're not talking experiences.

and my religious experiences and views do not match yours.  Fairly simple stuff.

Thus the glaring flaw of religion.

Jan 15 12 04:53 pm  Link  Quote 
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