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Photographer
Markcomp
Posts: 40,517
Royal Oak, Michigan, US


If you are a photographer, do you find yourself judging model portfolios differently than Photographers portfolios?  In other words, when I look at a photographers port., I look for lighting, composition and such but when I look at a models port, I look for comfortablity with the camera, believabilty and such. You?
Aug 15 05 01:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,492
Santa Ana, California, US


markcomp wrote:
If you are a photographer, do you find yourself judging model portfolios differently than Photographers portfolios?  In other words, when I look at a photographers port., I look for lighting, composition and such but when I look at a models port, I look for comfortablity with the camera, believabilty and such. You?

A lot of what I'm doing with a model's portfolio, is trying to imagine how she'd look with a different MU treatment or with a different styling...
Which brings me to:  Models ! - Include no makeup head shots in your online books - please? - Major agencies are doing this now (including polaroids) and it's great.

John

Aug 15 05 01:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Barbray
Posts: 885
Atlanta, Georgia, US


John Allan wrote:

A lot of what I'm doing with a model's portfolio, is trying to imagine how she'd look with a different MU treatment or with a different styling...
Which brings me to:  Models ! - Include no makeup head shots in your online books - please? - Major agencies are doing this now (including polaroids) and it's great.

John

Just completed a waterfall shoot with Steve...he wanted all natural...so no MUA/Stylist/No cheesecloth... no nuffin! Now
you have the reason behind all the recent screaming!

smile

Mollie

Aug 15 05 05:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Weldphoto
Posts: 406
Charleston, South Carolina, US


Of course they are looked at differently. They are different issues. A photographers portfolio should show his creative style and level of craftpersonship (ugh...). A model's shows her/his ability to model!

As for Mollie under a waterfall, that is something so thrilling to think about I can't think of anything else.
Aug 15 05 05:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Barbray
Posts: 885
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Weldphoto wrote:
Of course they are looked at differently. They are different issues. A photographers portfolio should show his creative style and level of craftpersonship (ugh...). A model's shows her/his ability to model!

As for Mollie under a waterfall, that is something so thrilling to think about I can't think of anything else.

Trust me in this George...
Standing, lying, swimming, and sitting in rapid rushing water
beneath a waterfall that the water temp is 45 degrees...Your
brain QUITS functioning after 5 minutes...the fish might have
been thrilled...but we were simply NUMB!

wink

Mollie

Aug 15 05 05:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer

Posts: 5,194
New York, New York, US


Quickly.

Models,  mostly if I want to work with them.  Then respect for their work.

photographers.  first looking to see if I think the work is great.
Aug 15 05 05:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
byReno
Posts: 1,033
Arlington Heights, Illinois, US


mollie_lane wrote:

Trust me in this George...
Standing, lying, swimming, and sitting in rapid rushing water
beneath a waterfall that the water temp is 45 degrees...Your
brain QUITS functioning after 5 minutes...the fish might have
been thrilled...but we were simply NUMB!

wink

Mollie

Apparently you do not understand how a MAN’s mind works.  They love it when you are chilled.  Oh ya, and the waterfall knocked your top off.  smile

Aug 15 05 07:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
byReno
Posts: 1,033
Arlington Heights, Illinois, US


This poses a pretty interesting question.  I also look at them differently.  As mentioned above: the photographer for creativity, the model for presentation.  I also notice in creating my own, I have images I think a model would like to display herself and others to appease my creativeness.
Aug 15 05 07:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Barbray
Posts: 885
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Reno Pittner wrote:

Apparently you do not understand how a MAN’s mind works.  They love it when you are chilled.  Oh ya, and the waterfall knocked your top off.  smile

LOL@Reno...

I didn't lose my top but the guy almost lost his swim trunks. 
I did not notice...I was too busy fighting the rushing water
that snatched my feet out from under me.

wink

Mollie

Aug 15 05 07:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
bencook2
Posts: 3,797
Pageland, South Carolina, US


I judge both on 1. what is the photograph trying to say  2. does it work for what it was shot for  3. Is it pleasing to me.

Number 3. can make any photo good.
Aug 15 05 07:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
area291
Posts: 2,525
Calabasas, California, US


If I critique I try to do so honestly.  When I view portfolios I try to see the possibilities.  Whenever I look at Mollie I go all a flutter...
Aug 15 05 08:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Markcomp
Posts: 40,517
Royal Oak, Michigan, US


mollie_lane wrote:
LOL@Reno...

I didn't lose my top but the guy almost lost his swim trunks. 
I did not notice...I was too busy fighting the rushing water
that snatched my feet out from under me.

wink

Mollie

If the guy had lost his shorts in the cold water I don't think you would have noticed much at all. lol

Aug 15 05 09:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Barbray
Posts: 885
Atlanta, Georgia, US


area291 wrote:
If I critique I try to do so honestly.  When I view portfolios I try to see the possibilities.  Whenever I look at Mollie I go all a flutter...

Richard dahlinnnnnnn...how MANY times do I have to tell you
to have that heart murmur checked out?!

Besides you howled with evil gleeeeeeee when I told you I wiped out in the rapids...

yikes

Mollie

Aug 15 05 09:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Barbray
Posts: 885
Atlanta, Georgia, US


markcomp wrote:

If the guy had lost his shorts in the cold water I don't think you would have noticed much at all. lol

Welllllllllll ummmmmmm considering the speed, temp, and volume
of the water pounding me at the time...I doubt I would have noticed if JAWS decided to skinny dip...when breaking the surface and breathing was the ONLY thing on my mind!

wink

Mollie

Aug 15 05 09:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
12082
Posts: 1,292
Los Angeles, California, US


markcomp wrote:
How do you critique?

First, I try to answer the question asked. I recently asked for a critique in the "critique" forum, and it wasn't what I expected. If I ask a question, I like it be answered or addressed at least. And as a model, help me; it's the model that's asking not the photographer, the critique should be different between the two.

Also, I try to be positive. I hate it when a critique is not constructive - what's the point of the critique then? Just to be rude? I live in LA, folks! Sure there may be some "faults" but there's a nice way to say anything and the purpose of a critique is to improve, right? Or at least for me it is. So tying the above and this together, only comment (i.e. critique) on things that are within the person's powers to change.

Anyway, I thought a definition might help: The practice of analyzing, classifying, interpreting, or evaluating literary or other artistic works.

Sep 03 05 07:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Masha
Posts: 93
San Jose, California, US


the funny thing is, though most people separate how they judge a model and the photographer, you can often tell by the comments that people just forget that there's a difference. i've read many comments on model's images that say "wow, thats really nice lighting. great work." or something of the sort, though the models aren't responsible at all for such things. i can't say that one of those hasn't slipped out, but i try to give credit where credit is due.
Sep 04 05 12:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
kim grisco photography
Posts: 3
Los Angeles, California, US


sounds good!
Jun 17 08 09:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gone Til Novus-ember
Posts: 11,440
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Markcomp wrote:
If you are a photographer, do you find yourself judging model portfolios differently than Photographers portfolios?  In other words, when I look at a photographers port., I look for lighting, composition and such but when I look at a models port, I look for comfortablity with the camera, believabilty and such. You?

I do that, but i also add in talent selection.

As both a model and photographer I feel like the team you choose to work with is part of your responsibility and a reflection of your work.  Models that work with shit ass photographers and MUA's and stylists (or the lack of one) are models that don't understand what makes a good image and are likely to not be as committed to the shoot.

Same things for photographers.

Jun 17 08 10:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6,505
Atlanta, Georgia, US


A healthy critical analysis does not simply cover how the person requesting for the commentary affected the shot, it covers why things do or do not work, the impact certain elements have, leaves the one who requested the feedback better able to analyze photos themselves and -hopefully- do the the things they did well again and prevent repeat mistakes.

As such, sometimes when talking to a model you have to be a bit more comprehensive than "Well... I'm not going to talking about the lighting eventhough it sucks, I'm just going to talk about you."  Sure, sure, you're trying to be fair and relevant blah blah blah but there are many times when it's appropriate to tell someone why a photo doesn't work even if you're covering elements over which they had no control.

So sometimes you have to educate a model on why the cropping in a given photo doesn't work with the style despite the fact that the framing wasn't his/her choice.  Sometimes you have to school a model on why she shouldn't wear horizontal stripes or why his socks should (generally) match his pants not his ties or shoes.  Sometimes you have to let a model know why the hairstyle is fucking up the shot.

Sometimes you have to cover these things even if the model does everything he/she was supposed to do perfectly.  Because in the end, you want the best shot in you portfolio and even if you were fantastic at what you did, if someone else dropped the ball the shot will hurt you.


The same thing goes for photographers although it's difficult to find anything in the making of the shot that would be irrelevant to the photographer.  Again, if anyone fucks up down the line, the photographer needs to know why.  In the end, he/she needs to answer for the shot no matter what, so all elements are fair game and relevant to discussion.

For stylist (make-up, hair, clothing) I do try to base commentary more closely to what he or she actually did in the photo.  But some photos are more photographer shots than make-up artist shots.  So in that respect, sometimes it's helpful to cover why a particular shot is best left out of a stylist's book even when it's a page stopping photograph.


Personally, I just try to give someone feedback with depth.  Too many people are content to simply say "That shot's great!!" without a thought as to why.  More often than not, in hearing the explanation of why someone likes a shot, you'll find that they don't think the shot's good overall, instead they like a certain element of it.  Hearing "Great shot!!" is very different than "That gal's tiddies look so gud that I don't even care that the background's a mess!!"

One is helpful, the other is not.  And we're all trying to improve, right?  Don't pull punches.  Even when you like something, you're trying to help the person get better.  Critique accordingly...
Jun 17 08 10:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6,505
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Damn, that was long...
Jun 17 08 10:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lumigraphics
Posts: 32,628
Detroit, Michigan, US


I don't critique. Either your shit grabs me or it doesn't.
Jun 17 08 10:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
D T Masters
Posts: 3,690
Austin, Texas, US


Markcomp wrote:
If you are a photographer, do you find yourself judging model portfolios differently than Photographers portfolios?  In other words, when I look at a photographers port., I look for lighting, composition and such but when I look at a models port, I look for comfortablity with the camera, believabilty and such. You?

Probably.

If I am looking at a model, I am probably evaluating on acting standards, do they convince me that they are what they portray, are they communicating emotion........although, the basis for that can come from various viewpoints, various realities.

That basis variability is probably best illustrated by this passage for Metagaming's Game Master book "In the Labyrith": Characteristic: Naturalist: Someone who understands and is able to thrive in the wild. This could be Tarzan, Robin Hood, or Daniel Boone." (words to that effect).

The photographer I am probably using what I know about artists thru history......whether that artist is Whistler or Paul Thomas.

But one thing has to be kept in mind here ................ I'm just an amateur, afterall.

Jun 18 08 03:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Black Hugh Hefner
Posts: 29
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Yes I do look at them differently but I try to leave the critiquing to someone else!
May 10 09 03:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jean Renard Photography
Posts: 1,985
Los Angeles, California, US


I look at all work the same way.  I do not critique.

I know what I am looking for in a specific situation and...

The presentation scores or fails. 

Sometimes it fails for the specific job but I remember it for something else.
May 10 09 03:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Vector 38
Posts: 8,296
Austin, Texas, US


OMarkcompa wrote:
photographer, do you find yourself judging model portfolios differently than Photographers portfolios?

no. i look (look, not judge) and notice the various components of the images and how all the work (model, photographer, MUA, etc.) came together.

~ V_38

May 10 09 03:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 21,947
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Just for a moment there I got all excited and thought Mollie was back with us.

Damned three year old thread!
May 10 09 05:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
U2RGR8
Posts: 20
Dublin, Dublin, Ireland


Yah, what the heck Happened to Mollie.......... Kind of like watching a scratched up DVD and not able to see the end! Bummer!
Aug 15 09 08:23 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Secretchick
Posts: 53


I think if you are going to post on the critique section  and ask them to view your portfolio then be prepared for straight direct to the point replies

my portfolio is not up to standard yet to even go there lol but I am working on it slowly.

What I did find amazing was the other day after a photo shoot with a tog who works professionally  was that he  was viewing the pics from the shoot and the ones I thought looked really good he didnt comment on them however he mentioned ones that I would never have dreamed of using he  has since sent me a few pics which he has touched up a little and there really good but again at first they didnt stand out to me at all.
Aug 15 09 11:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LeDeux Art
Posts: 50,123
San Ramon, California, US


OMarkcompa wrote:
If you are a photographer, do you find yourself judging model portfolios differently than Photographers portfolios?  In other words, when I look at a photographers port., I look for lighting, composition and such but when I look at a models port, I look for comfortablity with the camera, believabilty and such. You?

i look at them both for inspiration, as it goes

Aug 16 09 10:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LeDeux Art
Posts: 50,123
San Ramon, California, US


Secretchick wrote:
I think if you are going to post on the critique section  and ask them to view your portfolio then be prepared for straight direct to the point replies

my portfolio is not up to standard yet to even go there lol but I am working on it slowly.

What I did find amazing was the other day after a photo shoot with a tog who works professionally  was that he  was viewing the pics from the shoot and the ones I thought looked really good he didnt comment on them however he mentioned ones that I would never have dreamed of using he  has since sent me a few pics which he has touched up a little and there really good but again at first they didnt stand out to me at all.

what a model looks for in an image is often different than what the photographer looks for

Aug 16 09 10:54 am  Link  Quote 
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