On CBS Evening News they quoted a witness saying he say a black male on top of a white male throwing punches "mixed martial arts style" but didn't see the shooting because he went inside to call the police.
"According to the newly released reports, at least one witness told police that the man in the “red sweatshirt”—Zimmerman—was on the bottom during the fight. This witness “elaborated by saying the black male was mounted on the white or Hispanic male and throwing punches MMA (mixed martial arts) style.”"
No one in the police department thought to call the telephone company? Talk about lack of motivation.
I can't believe that the police do not know how to track down a cell phone and its call records quickly. What if this was a terrorist suspect?
Instinct Images wrote: What? Do you think the police just "call the telephone company" and magically they get the password to the phone? Haven't you ever actually used a smartphone?
No.
They call the phone company and ask what number he was talking to last. And a few before that.
"The relevant thing is George Zimmerman didn't have a toxicology report so we don't know what he had in his system," said attorney Benjamin Crump. "We know he (Zimmerman) was on prescription medication but we don't know if he was taking it or not and what effect that would have on him."
There is no way to know if Zimmerman was on anything at the time of the fight and shooting, nor how it might have affected him.
But what may be the central point of contention - who screamed for help? - goes tantalizingly unanswered.
If it was Zimmerman, it would confirm his story that he pleaded for assistance against the teenager who was brutally beating him. If it was Martin, it could establish Zimmerman was the aggressor who shot an unarmed teenager and would be a major component of a case for second-degree murder.
Relatives of both Zimmerman and Martin swear it was their kin who was pleading for his life.
The cries for help were silenced by a single shot from Zimmerman's Kel Tec 9mm handgun but not before they were recorded on phone calls that neighbors made to police to report a struggle between two men in their gated community in the central Florida city of Sanford.
"Critical listening and digital signal analysis further revealed that the screaming voice of the 911 call is of insufficient voice quality and duration to conduct a meaningful voice comparison with any other voice samples," concluded Kenneth Marr, a specialist with the FBI's digital evidence laboratory in Quantico, Virginia.
Of 18.82 seconds of screaming in the distance, only 2.53 seconds went uninterrupted by the conversation between the woman who called 911 and the dispatcher, Marr said in his report.
Moreover, the audio sample was "produced under an extreme emotional state," the report said, making it difficult to analyze.
FBI says it's impossible to know who was screaming.
A police report shows the 17-year-old had been shot once in the chest and had been pronounced dead at the scene. The autopsy says the fatal shot was fired from no more than 18 inches away.
Shot that killed Martin was fired no more than 18 inches away. Further info says it was a contact wound, meaning it was likely much closer than 18 inches.
The evidence supporting Zimmerman's defense includes a photo showing the neighborhood watch volunteer with a bloody nose on the night of the fight. A paramedic report says Zimmerman had a 1-inch laceration on his head and forehead abrasion.
"Bleeding tenderness to his nose, and a small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding," paramedic Michael Brandy wrote about Zimmerman's injuries in the report.
If you gave a jury all of the above....evidence of a fight, evidence of a very close range shot, inability to determine who was calling for help, conflicting witness accounts, and no way of knowing if any drugs played a part in the event, what would you convict someone of (under Florida law), or conversely, what would you cite to acquit someone?
As I've stated before, I agree with the arrest, I agree that Zimmerman should have stayed in his car and just observed until the police arrived. If he had, none of this would have happened. I agree he bears the responsibility of the death.
But given what is known as facts and that you must convict without reasonable doubt, what are the chances he will walk based on what you see or the chances he'd be convicted of the charge or a lesser charge under Florida law? I'm not asking if you "like it" or "dislike it".....given the facts, what do you think will be the outcome?
Once they have a warrant they can get that information.
Since they apparently couldn't unlock the phone once they got it charged they didn't even have an easy way to immediately determine the phone number.
Cell phones have serial numbers. They would not need the telephone number.
I would be astonished if police did not have a means to link serial number to telephone company. And a warrant in the case of a homicide should be just a telephone call away.
This shows a lack of motivation, not technical problems.
Cell phones have serial numbers. They would not need the telephone number.
I would be astonished if police did not have a means to link serial number to telephone company. And a warrant in the case of a homicide should be just a telephone call away.
This shows a lack of motivation, not technical problems.
The phone company can't simply give out personal information without a warrant. Don't you know that? And the phone wasn't a key piece of evidence. They had a dead kid did you want them to focus on the phone as if that would prove why he was shot? It turned out the last phone Martin made *might* help shed some light on events that night but the police had no way to know that or even suspect it. It's easy to sit here now with all of the information we have and criticize their handling of details but IMO it's not justified regarding getting information from Martin's phone.
The phone company can't simply give out personal information without a warrant. Don't you know that? And the phone wasn't a key piece of evidence. They had a dead kid did you want them to focus on the phone as if that would prove why he was shot? It turned out the last phone Martin made *might* help shed some light on events that night but the police had no way to know that or even suspect it. It's easy to sit here now with all of the information we have and criticize their handling of details but IMO it's not justified regarding getting information from Martin's phone.
The family wanted to consult with their attorney before providing the police with the pin number for the phone which T Mobile said was necessary to override the swipe code.
Evidence released last week in the second-degree-murder case against George Zimmerman shows four key witnesses made major changes in what they say they saw and heard the night he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford.
Three changed their stories in ways that may damage Zimmerman. A fourth abandoned her initial story, that she saw one person chasing another. Now, she says, she saw a single figure running.
I don't see anything in there that is really damaging to Zimmerman. In addition, I trust initial interviews more than ones completed later after the media circus started.
Instinct Images wrote: I don't see anything in there that is really damaging to Zimmerman. In addition, I trust initial interviews more than ones completed later after the media circus started.
I have to disagree with the idea that the changes don't damage Zimmerman. It seems as if every account change was against him. I have a funny feeling this is going to lead to a hung jury. At this point you have no idea who to believe. The fact that these stories changed so drastically is upsetting. Regardless how you feel about it the man deserves a fair trial and this is a direct result of media manipulation and saturation. The stories change so dramatically that it's obviously something going on. Be it intentional or unintentional I have a feeling these people may not have been truthful to start or are now not being truthful. These aren't small details. How do you go from seeing someone dropping MMA style punches (very very specific observation) to not knowing if punches were thrown. One witness particularly said based on what she saw on tv of their sizes it had to be Zimmerman on top. Is she basing this on the pic from when he was a kid that the media made out to be current or his real size?
"I know after seeing the TV of what's happening, comparing their sizes, I think Zimmerman was definitely on top because of his size," the woman, "Witness 12," said.
This is going to be a damn nightmare for BOTH lawyer teams but mainly the prosecution.
Jeffs Photography wrote: ...
Zimmerman wants another judge. Not surprising, but one judge has already been changed. Is he burning up the judges too quickly? Is there a limit?
...
No. No limit. If he doesn't like the next judge and the next judge doesn't do anything offensive enough to complain about, he can also ask for a change of venue to another geographic area and get a new judge there.
"Most of the new evidence appeared to favor Zimmerman."
"A new witness whose name was blacked out told a prosecution investigator March 27 that she saw the fight and that the person on top was the one who wound up dead."
"That makes two witnesses — one from an earlier evidence release — who back up Zimmerman's version that Trayvon had overpowered him."
"The FBI got involved after the Department of Justice launched a civil-rights investigation into Trayvon's shooting.
That followed weeks of protests and rallies around the country where national civil-rights leaders, including the president of the NAACP, the Rev. Jesse Jackson, the Rev. Al Sharpton and several members of Congress, accused Sanford police of doing a shoddy, racially biased investigation and refusing to arrest Zimmerman."
"The new records also document that Zimmerman's subdivision, where he led the Neighborhood Watch, had a bona-fide problem with burglaries."
"Between March 2010 and March 2012, the new records show, there were seven burglaries reported in the townhouse community, as well as several larcenies and drug offenses.
That's important because Zimmerman says he became suspicious of Trayvon because of all the neighborhood burglaries."
I wouldn't be surprised if the judge went along with it just to get out of the case. Local judges have to stand for retention elections and this case could cost him points whichever way the final verdict goes.
"Most of the new evidence appeared to favor Zimmerman."
"A new witness whose name was blacked out told a prosecution investigator March 27 that she saw the fight and that the person on top was the one who wound up dead."
"That makes two witnesses — one from an earlier evidence release — who back up Zimmerman's version that Trayvon had overpowered him."
"The FBI got involved after the Department of Justice launched a civil-rights investigation into Trayvon's shooting.
That followed weeks of protests and rallies around the country where national civil-rights leaders, including the president of the NAACP, the Rev. Jesse Jackson, the Rev. Al Sharpton and several members of Congress, accused Sanford police of doing a shoddy, racially biased investigation and refusing to arrest Zimmerman."
"The new records also document that Zimmerman's subdivision, where he led the Neighborhood Watch, had a bona-fide problem with burglaries."
"Between March 2010 and March 2012, the new records show, there were seven burglaries reported in the townhouse community, as well as several larcenies and drug offenses.
That's important because Zimmerman says he became suspicious of Trayvon because of all the neighborhood burglaries."
So, he called the cops, as any good citizen might, and as a guy on neighborhood watch duty should. If he were a competent neighborhood watch dude, and if he really thought Trayvon was a criminal, he'd have sat in his SUV and waited. Instead he, armed, got out and followed Trayvon, ultimately provoking a confrontation. Then he shot and killed Trayvon. There is no rational way to absolve Zim of responsibility for the confrontation and its deadly consequences.
So, he called the cops, as any good citizen might, and as a guy on neighborhood watch duty should. If he were a competent neighborhood watch dude, and if he really thought Trayvon was a criminal, he'd have sat in his SUV and waited. Instead he, armed, got out and followed Trayvon, ultimately provoking a confrontation. Then he shot and killed Trayvon. There is no rational way to absolve Zim of responsibility for the confrontation and its deadly consequences.
Which is why a charge of Manslaughter makes more sense to me.
Vivus Hussein Denuo wrote: ...
So, he called the cops, as any good citizen might, and as a guy on neighborhood watch duty should. If he were a competent neighborhood watch dude, and if he really thought Trayvon was a criminal, he'd have sat in his SUV and waited. Instead he, armed, got out and followed Trayvon, ultimately provoking a confrontation. Then he shot and killed Trayvon. There is no rational way to absolve Zim of responsibility for the confrontation and its deadly consequences.
How did he provoke a confrontation? Trayvon caught him by surprise after leaving the safety of wherever he was hiding.
New information from the FBI investigation regarding Zimmerman's connections - or lack of connections - to the Sanford PD and Florida State Attorney General. It seems that he was estranged from his parents at the time of the shooting and his dad didn't get involved or try to help him as some on this forum suggested.
Instinct Images wrote: New information from the FBI investigation regarding Zimmerman's connections - or lack of connections - to the Sanford PD and Florida State Attorney General. It seems that he was estranged from his parents at the time of the shooting and his dad didn't get involved or try to help him as some on this forum suggested.
Instinct, if you ask me, Zimmerman has a lot of suing to do when he gets out and is exonerated of all this unbelievable nonsense. Starting with NBC News:
T
Posts: 53,533
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Mr-Shy wrote:
Instinct, if you ask me, Zimmerman has a lot of suing to do when he gets out and is exonerated of all this unbelievable nonsense. Starting with NBC News:
On the contrary, being a propagandist for al sharpton shitspeak should be what is illegal
I really don't get folks like you. Do you really hate Black people so much that you would support the blatant killing of a unarmed teen? Even if we accept the ideal that Mr. Zimmerman didn't set out to kill Trayvon the evidence suggests that he is culpable for his death. He's a 27 year old man who was instructed to not pursue him but did and with a loaded weapon. Should we accept that Trayvon attacked him when he has no background of violence? Mr. Zimmerman does. Further, Mr. Zimmerman has been shown to be a liar which is in part why his bond was revoked and he was released with another one but with restrictions.
Even if you don't like Blacks. Even if you feel Sharpton is a loud mouth trouble making Negro. Even if you think Trayvon was a drug dealing thug. Did he deserve to die? I could be the biggest racist in the world yet I could never support killing a unarmed child. I could never support in any way his killer even if I felt what he did was justified in any way. Its a telling thing you seem too.
T
Posts: 53,533
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Tony Lawrence wrote:
I really don't get folks like you. Do you really hate Black people so much that you would support the blatant killing of a unarmed teen? Even if we accept the ideal that Mr. Zimmerman didn't set out to kill Trayvon the evidence suggests that he is culpable for his death. He's a 27 year old man who was instructed to not pursue him but did and with a loaded weapon. Should we accept that Trayvon attacked him when he has no background of violence? Mr. Zimmerman does. Further, Mr. Zimmerman has been shown to be a liar which is in part why his bond was revoked and he was released with another one but with restrictions.
Even if you don't like Blacks. Even if you feel Sharpton is a loud mouth trouble making Negro. Even if you think Trayvon was a drug dealing thug. Did he deserve to die? I could be the biggest racist in the world yet I could never support killing a unarmed child. I could never support in any way his killer even if I felt what he did was justified in any way. Its a telling thing you seem too.
That's just it Tony.....
The kid is dead and these mofo's think we are wrong for having a problem with this man who started the ENTIRE situation getting away with it. I know he won't be charged...they rarely are.
It's acceptable as if Trayvon deserved to die that day. I'd never wish death on anyone's child who was only walking from the store. The fact that ol boy even brought Shapton's name into the conversation is very telling. I'm not surprise he hates Sharpton....People like him hated MLK, Medgar Evers and any one who was bold enough to call wrong...wrong.
We're suppose to embrace Zimmerman and just accept the fact that black men have to be shot down every now and then. Accept the fact that historically in America...you can freely kill them and never serve a day in jail. If you speak up...it's "shitspeak".
The kid is dead and these mofo's think we are wrong for having a problem with this man who started the ENTIRE situation getting away with it. I know he won't be charged...they rarely are.
It's acceptable as if Trayvon deserved to die that day. I'd never wish death on anyone's child who was only walking from the store. The fact that ol boy even brought Shapton's name into the conversation is very telling. I'm not surprise he hates Sharpton....People like him hated MLK, Medgar Evers and any one who was bold enough to call wrong...wrong.
We're suppose to embrace Zimmerman and just accept the fact that black men have to be shot down every now and then. Accept the fact that historically in America...you can freely kill them and never serve a day in jail. If you speak up...it's "shitspeak".
BTW...did you watch Dateline tonight?
Hi, T. I really don't get it and before anybody says it. I'd feel the same if he were White, Mexican or Asian. Yes I know about the area break-ins. Yes I read about some of the other crimes. The neighbourhood watch is to watch. We see it over and over. Rodney King gets his as% beat by the police. Well he was speeding and it wasn't racially motivated according to most members here. Black man in NY is shot at 41 times and killed while reaching for his wallet. Another man is sodomized by the police. A Black man leaving a club with friends is approached by the police and shot mostly it seems because they the man killed mistook the uncover officers for guys they beefed with in the club.
A Black undercover officer was gunned down by a White officer as he chased a thief. A Black grandmother and her dog are shot when the police screwed up the address of drug dealers. Nope race has nothing to do with any of these things. Black folks are just unlucky and guys like Sharpton, Jessie and others are loudmouth Negros. I find it incredible that Zimmerman has collected over $250,000 and counting when its clear he and his wife are liars. The sad truth is kill a Black man or kid and its really no big deal. Now if Zimmerman had shot a dog... Our lives are worth less then dogs.
I wonder how much sympathy and money Zimmerman would have collected had he killed a White teen?
Chicchowmein
Posts: 13,472
Palm Beach, Florida, US
T wrote:
The hell you think I'm gonna do? Should be illegal to ask dumb ass questions on a Sunday.
You can lick Zimmerman from head to toe....doesn't mean I have to share your crush.
birds of a feather. No matter what happens I know what kind of man ( not) Zimmerman is. He's a lying POS who can't handle his shit without having a gun to back his nonsense up.
If you can't handle your ass stay in the car and let the police handle the job.
Zimmerman is a lying sack of shit, woman beater and a murderer who is not mentally competent enough to own a gun.
Eff Zimmerman and anyone else who thinks he's a hero.
How did he provoke a confrontation? Trayvon caught him by surprise after leaving the safety of wherever he was hiding.
Zim got out of his truck and followed Trayvon, after saying to the police operator, "They always get away." Those are undisputed facts, not speculation about Trayvon "hiding."
Vivus Hussein Denuo wrote: Zim got out of his truck and followed Trayvon, after saying to the police operator, "They always get away." Those are undisputed facts, not speculation about Trayvon "hiding."
And indeed he did get away. Then Trayvon came back and assaulted Zimmerman.
T
Posts: 53,533
Washington, District of Columbia, US
chicchowmein wrote:
birds of a feather. No matter what happens I know what kind of man ( not) Zimmerman is. He's a lying POS who can't handle his shit without having a gun to back his nonsense up.
If you can't handle your ass stay in the car and let the police handle the job.
Zimmerman is a lying sack of shit, woman beater and a murderer who is not mentally competent enough to own a gun.
Eff Zimmerman and anyone else who thinks he's a hero.
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