“The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand.”
“Ayn Rand, more than anybody else, did a fantastic job explaining the morality of capitalism, the morality of individualism, and that, to me, is what matters most.”
“I reject her philosophy…. It’s an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview.”
"It looks like — after some obvious excitement among conservatives and Republicans that it was suddenly OK to openly admit to being enough of a stunted adolescent asshole that Ayn Rand seemed like visionary instead of a bad pulp author and even worse philosopher — Rand is back to being an embarrassment."
Bill Bates wrote: So you've read Rand and have a good grasp and understanding of Objectivist philosophy?
Lets stipulate for this thread that I have never heard of her before in my life, and I have no idea or understanding whatsoever of what she thinks, writes, or says.
Now, where were we?
Oh, yeah!
Check out how once fawning conservatives are rushing to throw this woman under the bus!
Rand and the conservatives split during the 1960s. She predicted that the Republicans would lose their way when they began to embrace the fundamental Christians. I do think Rand Paul is trying to distance himself from his Libertarian roots and play up to the Christian right. I think that may be a mistake.
BTW, I would recommend reading Ayn Rand. She isn't an easy read but she had very worthwhile things to say. Of course like each philosopher, with their idea of utopia, hers has issues in the real world.
I celebrate her free thinking even in areas where I may disagree with her. As it turns out, our disagreements on religion don't affect our agreements on politics.
OMarkcompa wrote: I celebrate her free thinking even in areas where I may disagree with her. As it turns out, our disagreements on religion don't affect our agreements on politics.
OMarkcompa wrote: I celebrate her free thinking even in areas where I may disagree with her. As it turns out, our disagreements on religion don't affect our agreements on politics.
As it turns out, my disagreements with Ayn Rand on politics don't affect our agreements on religion.
OMarkcompa wrote: I celebrate her free thinking even in areas where I may disagree with her. As it turns out, our disagreements on religion don't affect our agreements on politics.
Svend wrote: As it turns out, my disagreements with Ayn Rand on politics don't affect our agreements on religion.
To each his own until it interferes with my freedoms.
OMarkcompa wrote: I celebrate her free thinking even in areas where I may disagree with her. As it turns out, our disagreements on religion don't affect our agreements on politics.
To each his own until it interferes with my freedoms.
Thirty-something years ago, I read Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead. They worked OK as stories, except that Rand kept hitting the reader over the head with her economic philosophy. Every few pages, "Selfishness and rugged individualism good. Socialism bad." That's the way to write a political tract, not a novel.
Robert A. Heinlein had a similar philosophy, but he didn't bop you on the noggin with it every few pages. Besides, he wrote cool stories.
Monad Studios
Posts: 8,949
Santa Rosa, California, US
I don't know when Ryan made his various remarks. But it's pretty common for people to admire Ayn Rand when they're young and then disdain or dismiss her when they become more intellectually mature.
(This is not meant to defend Paul Ryan or to suggest that he is intellectually mature.)
Monad Studios wrote: I don't know when Ryan made his various remarks. But it's pretty common for people to admire Ayn Rand when they're young and then disdain or dismiss her when they become more intellectually mature.
(This is not meant to defend Paul Ryan or to suggest that he is intellectually mature.)
"The Fountainhead" is quite possibly my all-time favorite book. That hasn't changed since I first read it and I highly recommend to friends.
Eros Fine Art Photo wrote: ...
"The Fountainhead" is quite possibly my all-time favorite book. That hasn't changed since I first read it and I highly recommend to friends.
Eliza C
Posts: 7,869
Swansea, Wales, United Kingdom
Bill Bates wrote: Rand and the conservatives split during the 1960s. She predicted that the Republicans would lose their way when they began to embrace the fundamental Christians. I do think Rand Paul is trying to distance himself from his Libertarian roots and play up to the Christian right. I think that may be a mistake.
BTW, I would recommend reading Ayn Rand. She isn't an easy read but she had very worthwhile things to say. Of course like each philosopher, with their idea of utopia, hers has issues in the real world.
I tend to agree. And also; some are more practical than others...
Monad Studios wrote: I don't know when Ryan made his various remarks. But it's pretty common for people to admire Ayn Rand when they're young and then disdain or dismiss her when they become more intellectually mature.
(This is not meant to defend Paul Ryan or to suggest that he is intellectually mature.)
Yes, true.. The first book I ever read from her was Anthem when I was a kid, so obviously I was very pro-Ayn, hell yah fuckin right the power of 'I'..!! As an adult, though, you realize that we can't all go explore the earth and live anti-society/establishment/government lives.. It can only work for a few, and even then only in theory.. People do it, but it can never be a mainstream way of life..
I have read just about everything that Ayn Rand wrote.
Her book, An Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology should be required reading for every high school student.
Paul Ryan is a perfect example of a failed Objectivist.
He rejects the philosophy but cherry picks the parts he likes.
An essential tenant of objectivism is that one is driven by reason. If you do not understand and accept the rational argument behind the moral conclusions, you are a fraud.
Guss W wrote: Alan Greenspan, former Chairman of the Federal Reserve, was a big fan of Ayn Rand. Do we want more of him?
Well, the new improved Alan Greenspan has recognized that the free market doesn't correct itself fast enough to prevent disastrous recessions. Him, I'll take.
Vivus Hussein Denuo wrote: ...
Well, the new improved Alan Greenspan has recognized that the free market doesn't correct itself fast enough to prevent disastrous recessions. Him, I'll take.
...
I'm sure the captain of the cruise ship Costa Concordia would not make the same mistakes over again, but who would give him the chance?
Guss W wrote: Ayn Rand on conservatives...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRzmAwLmXiE “To rest one's case on faith is to concede that reason is on the side of one's enemies.”
Hall Photo
Posts: 12,331
Boston, Massachusetts, US
I'm sure it affected his outlook and became a part of him growing up, if not entirely. As a wise man once said, "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
Hall Photo wrote: I'm sure it affected his outlook and became a part of him growing up, if not entirely. As a wise man once said, "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
Monad Studios
Posts: 8,949
Santa Rosa, California, US
Kozmina wrote: Never knew of her really and had know knowledge of her philosophies.Just read the first couple paragraphs of her wiki and she sounds interesting.
She was an interesting phenomenon. Growing up under a totalitarian collectivist regime then moving to America as a young woman left her with a polarized view of the world, in which everyone is either a radical individualist or a radical collectivist.
In her fictional worlds there were collectivist conspiracies lurking everywhere. It's easy to see why her work appeals to many of the same people who say that President Obama is plotting a socialist transformation of America.
Denouncing her philosophy because it's atheistic, as Ryan now does, is a weaselly move. It removes religious objections without rejecting the simplistic capitalist-hero-vs-collectivist-villain narrative that has always been her main appeal.
Longwatcher
Posts: 3,635
Newport News, Virginia, US
I just feel the need to point out that Heinlein was about individual RESPONSIBILITY, not necessarily individualism and definitely not Ayn Rand's selfish individualism.
Longwatcher wrote: I just feel the need to point out that Heinlein was about individual RESPONSIBILITY, not necessarily individualism and definitely not Ayn Rand's selfish individualism.
And about service to the higher cause of the human community. One of my favorite quotes of his: "The most noble fate a man can endure is to place his own mortal body between his loved home and the war's desolation."
Never read Ms. Rand. The lack of thrift in her writing style turned me away. But I don't get the impression that she would've adopted that quote.
Kozmina
Posts: 6,515
Colorado Springs, Colorado, US
Monad Studios wrote:
She was an interesting phenomenon. Growing up under a totalitarian collectivist regime then moving to America as a young woman left her with a polarized view of the world, in which everyone is either a radical individualist or a radical collectivist.
In her fictional worlds there were collectivist conspiracies lurking everywhere. It's easy to see why her work appeals to many of the same people who say that President Obama is plotting a socialist transformation of America.
Denouncing her philosophy because it's atheistic, as Ryan now does, is a weaselly move. It removes religious objections without rejecting the simplistic capitalist-hero-vs-collectivist-villain narrative that has always been her main appeal.
Right on.Thanks for the summary.She sounds very interesting and I will be checking her out and reading some of her books.
Kozmina
Posts: 6,515
Colorado Springs, Colorado, US
Longwatcher wrote: I just feel the need to point out that Heinlein was about individual RESPONSIBILITY, not necessarily individualism and definitely not Ayn Rand's selfish individualism.
I wikied him too.Sounds just as interesting and I'll be checking out his stuff too.
fucking hilarious!!!
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