New photog here, local to the Silicon Valley, and I wanted to pick your brains for a quick sec. I've been shooting pictures all my life (cars, motorcycles, scooters, landscapes) and have recently got into doing portraits, mostly of family and friends.
I ask you, "What would you value most for improving your art, as a new photographer - attending classes and seminars, or straight-up trial-&error photosessions?"
In a convo with another model/photog I met off another website (deviantArt), she told me that 10 is the key number of photosessions needed to really get the hang of doing portrait photography. I realize experience is different by individual, but I was hoping to get a sense of what people found most helpful.
Imagineers
Posts: 204
Southampton, England, United Kingdom
There is a theory, also much supported by empirical evidence, that it takes a minimum of 10000 hours 'practice/training' to become 'very good' at whatever you choose.
A Preppy Photography wrote: I ask you, "What would you value most for improving your art, as a new photographer - attending classes and seminars, or straight-up trial-&error photosessions?"
Practice.
Shoot, shoot, shoot. Evaluate results against goals. Repeat until you improve.
If you stall at a certain level then a good workshop/tuition session can help you move to the next level, but there is still no substitute for practice.
Forget the numbers, it takes as long as it takes. It differs from one person to another. Some have a talent from day one. Others it can run to years and there are also those who will never get there.
Michael Scot
Posts: 860
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US
Shooting people is way different than anything else, and people have unique features that require different methods for capturing them. Jump in with both feet, and see what you run up against, then work on those issues as they present themselves. Everyone's learning process is different though, if you learn from a book, read a book, if you're a hands on kind of guy, then get in there and get dirty. Most of all enjoy it.
New photog here, local to the Silicon Valley, and I wanted to pick your brains for a quick sec. I've been shooting pictures all my life (cars, motorcycles, scooters, landscapes) and have recently got into doing portraits, mostly of family and friends.
I ask you, "What would you value most for improving your art, as a new photographer - attending classes and seminars, or straight-up trial-
Shoot as much as you can and constantly experiment. Always strive to improve, but don't be afraid to make mistakes. Mistakes can be very effective teachers.
There's no substitute for experience, but enlisting the advice and feedback of a few mentors along the way can accelerate the process.
Ross Watson
Posts: 88
NEWTOWN SQUARE, Pennsylvania, US
The 10,000 hour theory is totally bogus, if it takes 100 hours to do some decent work, that's a long time.
There are "naturals" in any work, sport, creative activity, etc, who will excell from the beginning, for the rest of us, it will take longer.
Ross Watson
I wouldn't consider "trial and error" vs. "taking a class" as a duality. Do both in the format that best helps you learn within your budget. Taking a class could be less of a class and a hell of a lot of reading, or maybe trading tips with other photographers, or tagging along as an aide at someone else's shoot. Complement everything you learn by putting it into practice immediately and often.
Shoot, shoot, shoot. Evaluate results against goals. Repeat until you improve.
If you stall at a certain level then a good workshop/tuition session can help you move to the next level, but there is still no substitute for practice.
There was a point recently where there was no way I could shoot with people and get a decent picture unless I took a class to get some basics down. I also wanted to learn how to use strobes. It would have been much slower had I done this on my own.
The class was great. I met many new people, learned the basics and learned to use strobes. After that I did some research and bought my own and now use them for studio work.
Then I pick up books, magazines and find images online and try to figure out how it was done and see if I can do the same. I also try to keep shooting with different models to learn how to interact with them. I could go on.
Toto Photo
Posts: 1,112
San Francisco, California, US
I attended one three-day seminar which taught me glamour shooting techniques I probably never could have learned in any other way, it was priceless. I've had two excellent one-day seminars which took years off my learning curve: one on portrait techniques & lighting, the other on retouching. I've had three seminars which were almost a complete waste of time. And I've attended about another dozen seminars and classes which were very helpful.
On the other hand, each photo shoot I've done (over 200 now) I've probably learned what would have taken me 3-6 weeks of reading and in-home experimenting.
May I ask, why do you look at these activities as mutually exclusive?
Thanks to everyone for the great responses. I can see how numbers help to generalize averages, be it 13 sessions or 5 years worth of 40hr Work Weeks, but it's still like I acknowledged how "experience is different by individual."
Toto Photo wrote: May I ask, why do you look at these activities as mutually exclusive?
The reason I would see them as mutually exclusive is because I find myself at a crossroads, asking myself which is the next best step. I've already taken intro courses to photography, traditional film and digital, so it's a given I know how to Point/Manipulate/Adjust/Shoot. But I find myself looking for direction like "what makes for a great photograph." So far, I've had some great accidents in messing around, but an equal number of mistakes that I should have seen in advance.
I asked a question similar to another group of photographers, asking "What would your purchase next?" after obtaining your first DLSR Kit. WA Lens? Flash? Soft Box/Reflector? The majority recommended the lens, so at least I have a starting point of what most consider a major factor in their photography.
I like to think of it as comparing notes/resumes, and learning from those experienced, so that I can avoid building an ego built on a crappy portfolio. At this point, I think I can start to get a better idea of what I need next : more behind the camera experience, then take a class/seminar/workshop if I get stuck, before referencing a book for more deeper info.
A Preppy Photography wrote: ... At this point, I think I can start to get a better idea of what I need next : more behind the camera experience, then take a class/seminar/workshop if I get stuck, before referencing a book for more deeper info.
Spend a lot of time looking at the work of great photographers. Study how they posed the subject and how they lit the shot. Get a willing model and with sample picture in hand, try to set up the same shot. Learn from your mistakes. Repeat many times. When you start to set up a shot without having to think too much about it, you are getting there.
wiseleo
Posts: 1,681
Castro Valley, California, US
I took online courses on Lynda.com by Chris Orwig. I also have studied Strobist and Dean Collins DVDs. Theory becomes practice on shoots.
The answer is really composition. Once you have the technical basics and the lighting basics mastered, composition is what you must master to create better photographs. I heavily rely on ratio overlays in Lightroom for that, by the way.
The ability to see a scene with the field of view of your lenses gets built up over time. That is the stereotypical "director's view" through crossed fingers. As you master your lenses, you can envision what the view through the lens is without looking at the viewfinder.
I sometimes shoot an image with intent to crop it 3 or 4 different ways while other images I shoot are print-ready out of camera. The crop often changes the emotion I am striving to convey and amputating the limbs is not an option.
That really takes a long time to master. I am referring to keeping the model's shoes, fingers, and elbows in the shot and using just the right DOF for the shot. Sometimes you may want to shoot a square image with a 3:2 camera and that can get quite tricky.
I don't consider the lens to be that crucial. If you are shooting studio shots on white paper at f/8 with strobes, the 18-55 IS from Canon is sufficient. If you are shooting in natural light, the ef50mm f/1.8 is sufficient for getting a good enough portfolio to have clients pay for glass. This is on a crop camera.
I have 18-55 IS, 50mm f/1.8, and 100mm f/2.8 Macro non-USM. I am not in any rush to acquire more lenses. And yes I love my 100mm but it is my luxury lens. I bought it because it was allegedly broken and so I paid a lot less than what it truly is worth.
Equivalent applies to other camera manufacturers and lenses.
Getting studio lighting is critical, however. Be it speedlights, pack and heads, or monolights. Then there's the issue of light modifiers... Dean Collins teaches some very interesting techniques with mirrors how to use one light source as multiple light sources.
For me, I can't see myself doing all-at-once based on my current work/life situation, with an already busy schedule. As I'm still learning, I feel it's best to keep things at a slow-to-moderate pace until, as Tommy (RTE) said, I can "set up a shot without having to think too much about it". After thinking about it more, I think my mind considered how either option will supports improvement, directly or indirectly.
In a classroom/seminar/workshop setting, I see it as instructor-led where you are given an assignment and an evaluation based on individual performance. The Pro is being given direction of where to go and what to do, but the Con being that not all teachers are right. The flip side with Practice Trial-n-Error being that you have so much more freedom, but no objectively set guidelines (from an individual) to base an evaluation.
Classes, seminars, workshops....they're all options, but it depends on too many factors to tell you if they're worth it or if they're going to speed up your progression. Take a class by a super talented photographer who has no teaching skills...and it'll be worthless. Same for a Professor with their MFA that sucks at the technical aspects of photography. Just be picky with what you do and what you attend.
As far as how many shoots before you're adept at portraiture: I don't think there is a number. You should always be learning and seeking to improve, whether it's 10 shoots in or 1000. Granted, the more you do, the more comfortable you'll be...but to get "good" at it is a subjective concept. Once you reach one goal you might very well look at your work and realize that it's nowhere near as good as you thought and you'll strive to achieve another goal/standard of work.
i've shot 100+ sessions and still have so much to learn about everything. and every shoot is different because the people are different. if i had it to do over again i would have spent much less on gear and much more on training with the best people i can find. there's a ton of training available but i would look for the best even if it costs a fortune and you have to travel (for my part if i could i'd go see christa meola). you have to be really good to stay ahead of the DIY-ers and the CL-ers and just to please yourself.
also, it's a ton about business and marketing strategy (once you reach a certain level of competence). if there are 100 photographers (not to mention mall places) in your town who are competent how do you get people to choose you? i'm still working on that one. partly i think it depends on your charisma.
don't listen to hobbyists who will tell you that the key to success is an L lens. listen to people who are making a living shooting (or have done that in the past). things like expression, posing, lighting, locations, marketing, advertising, strategy are way more important. with a rebel and a nifty fifty and a 5-in-1 reflector you can get started shooting available light in the park. now if you want a certain look to your newborn shots then, yeah, a 50f1.2 may be in order.
Jay Farrell
Posts: 12,521
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Practice, and learning the fundamentals! You can't buy the eye, or buy your way to becoming proficient at your craft. Books and workshops are great too. If you are going to bother with a workshop, not all are equal, something like Santa Fe Workshops are the best and most educational, I have been...though expensive, well worth it.
I come in contact with interns who are studying or have graduated art schools in photography and am not impressed. They don't really seem to develop until they have shot a great deal
If you really truly know the *science* of photography, the artfulness and skill will come only with experience - this is a process that never ends as long as you never become complacent
Once again, MANY thanks to everyone who responded. I'd like to think I have a little more confidence now than when I when I first contemplated the idea of getting into Portraiture. I'm naturally a trial by fire kindda guy, with a little monkey-see-monkey-do for support, so just calling on people for sessions would be the next hurdle - get someone in-front of my camera and go nuts shooting.
John Horwitz wrote: 10? she was pulling your leg - and laughing
For someone who agreed to do a photosession with me but never returned my messages, it doesn't surprise me. I've survived through two decades worth of naivety and know there are certain brands and types of people who can't be trusted. Flakes is one of them. Danny Glover said it best - "I'm too old for this s**t."
On the other hand, if it weren't for her, I wouldn't be her.
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