I see time and again, starting with Kevin Aucoin and down on through the decades, this advice, moisturize the skin before doing makeup for best results.
Unfortunately, this claim and advice does not stand up to any scientific test of validity. It was Paula Begoin who first began to expose this myth in her old books, Dont Go to the Beauty Counter... and with each edition, with even more evidence from dermatologists, she debunked this myth. I am not referencing her book here though, I have done numerous skin conductivity tests in laboratories and her documentation is correct. The skin regulates its own moisture level and the use of most commercial products has little effect.
The way moisture levels in skin are measured is by using an electrode to test of conductivity. The normal skin moisture levels are 13-17 per cent. Below 11 we see skin cracking. Most studies have shown that the majority of women have a close to ideal skin moisture level.
Skin moisture is maintained by blood flow to the dermis and is protected by the release of sebum and transdermal ceramides. Essentially, the cut through the mountains of paperwork I have read on this topic, if you want moist skin, drink adequate water. Many studies have shown no effect on skin moisture levels using commercial products.
The only products with some discernable merit are osmotic moisturizers such as urea which attract water molecules into the epidermal space and are used in heel creams for skin cracking. This occurs frequently in winter, when ambient moisture levels drop below 35 per cent indoors, due to the use of heating.
Another problem with the moisturizer myth is that we are going to cover the face with primer and foundation anyhow, so that the skins moisture level will make no difference in appearance. By the time you have a layer of primer and foundation on the face, any contribution to skin tone or quality is being masked anyhow.
I know that pet ideas are not easily dispensed with in the light of evidence, and many people reject science on the basis of anecdotal experience. If you feel good moisturizing daily, by all means indulge. It feels great to spread a smooth lotion on the skin and if the moisturizer contains some active agent such as chamomile or mint, by all means enjoy the benefits of these herbal ingrediants.
But time and again its been shown that using moisturizers, especially for makeup preparation, is a waste of time and has no effect on the finished shoot quality. Perhaps more importantly, the myth that we tell women, to moisturize and use a toner daily, is just that, a myth. There is no demonstrable reason for most women to use a moisturizer.
Even in cases where there is obvious shedding of skin on the T zone, where it seems that moisture would help, the use of moisturizers is worthless. These problems do not arise from lack of skin moisture but from the fragility of the epidermal layer, which has many causes, some immunological, some not well understood. We know that skin cells often commit suicide, a process called autolysis, this is what happens after a bad sunburn, the cells release enzymes to self destruct. So what seems obvious, often isnt in dermatology.
The millions of dollars in moisturizer sales are evidence of the success of intutive marketing, that is, marketing to an intuitive notion, that putting a thin barrier of some chemical on the skin is going to improve skin moisture levels. Realize that skin moisture has to be controlled 24 hours a day and the body is very effective at this. It is absurd to think that applying some petroleum derivative, which is what most moisturizers are, will provide hours of moisture control. The benefit of emollients and other similar petrolatum based products are limited. Osmotic moisturizers, which have proven efficacy, are of little value for facial moisture control.
So you can safely skip the pseudo skin care routine when prepping your talent for a shoot. Just proceed with makeup application and leave the skin moisture control to the person's own body and things will turn out fine. The same is true after a shoot, there is little you can do other then clean the skin and keep all products off of it to let the skin recover.
My one caveat is this, if your model feels pampered and cared for by you taking the time to use a moisturizers, by all means use the placebo. If this establishes rapport and shows caring, go for it. I prefer to smile and make the model comfortable without that step. If your clients are likely to be impressed by the use of placebos to gain trust and confidence, go for it.
Very interesting information, but I am wondering for myself, who drinks 2-3 liters a day of water but has uncomfortable dry, taught skin after even just rinsing my face...how else would i deal with the tightness of my skin? Moisturizer has always been a non-negotiable step in my skin prep, with sunscreen for day and a richer moisturizer at night.
Right now I'm just getting over a cold, and I am often laughed at because if i'm sick I have to carry a tube of ointment with me everywhere that I must apply to my nose within minutes of blowing it or the dryness and discomfort are unbearable. It's awful at the height of the cold when it's just minutes until I know I'm going to have to do it all over again!
The OP sounds to me like you were not participating in a neutral scientic experiment with merit. merely testing conductivity through the dermis is not enought for you to prove or disprove. Seems to me like you had your mind made up and was only looking for something to validate your claim to the myth. Hardly seems like an appropriate assumption.
Secondly you instantly dish out anyone that doesnt agree with your opinion, telling people they are wrong because you think you are right is hardly the wording spoken by an impartial scientist investigating.
Now i believe your argument is fatally flawed. I have been a licensed paramedical aesthetician for over ten years. It all comes down to basic and simple cosmetology science which is well accepted and well researched by many scientists including the FDA and other more impartial people NOT liked to a specific cosmetic company.
We all know there are TOO Many variables that influence what happens in the skin. Firstly we know even if the dermis is producing adequate moisture, and is functioning well, the epidermis which is exposed to environmental elements, natural processes which cause the deterioration of the skin, ie ageing breaking down of collagen elastin and the reduction of sebum production. There are a million things that can cause the skin to be out of whack and require treatment,ie whether its with moisturisers, exfoliants, peels, etc you get the point.
These treatments are well researched and if correctly applied can significantly improve the epidermis. Thats why we have cosmetologists, if they didnt work then we would have went out of business thousands of years ago.
There are many internal issues that can affect the skin and cause issues, predominantly anything to do with the hormones, they control alot of what happens to the dermis and epidermis.
I truly hope that you get your facts right and dont be a donkey with blinkers on and think just because you want to prove a point and make everyone believe it.
What about human trials on a large scale while controlling the variables that affect skin....id like to see that!
kat makeup artist wrote: The OP sounds to me like you were not participating in a neutral scientic experiment with merit. merely testing conductivity through the dermis is not enought for you to prove or disprove. Seems to me like you had your mind made up and was only looking for something to validate your claim to the myth. Hardly seems like an appropriate assumption.
Secondly you instantly dish out anyone that doesnt agree with your opinion, telling people they are wrong because you think you are right is hardly the wording spoken by an impartial scientist investigating.
Now i believe your argument is fatally flawed. I have been a licensed paramedical aesthetician for over ten years. It all comes down to basic and simple cosmetology science which is well accepted and well researched by many scientists including the FDA and other more impartial people NOT liked to a specific cosmetic company.
We all know there are TOO Many variables that influence what happens in the skin. Firstly we know even if the dermis is producing adequate moisture, and is functioning well, the epidermis which is exposed to environmental elements, natural processes which cause the deterioration of the skin, ie ageing breaking down of collagen elastin and the reduction of sebum production. There are a million things that can cause the skin to be out of whack and require treatment,ie whether its with moisturisers, exfoliants, peels, etc you get the point.
These treatments are well researched and if correctly applied can significantly improve the epidermis. Thats why we have cosmetologists, if they didnt work then we would have went out of business thousands of years ago.
There are many internal issues that can affect the skin and cause issues, predominantly anything to do with the hormones, they control alot of what happens to the dermis and epidermis.
I truly hope that you get your facts right and dont be a donkey with blinkers on and think just because you want to prove a point and make everyone believe it.
What about human trials on a large scale while controlling the variables that affect skin....id like to see that!
Yup.
Say what you like OP, moisturizer works. Without it, my skin would be garbage
Davis...You may be right... I'll leave this argument to people that care more about it then I do.... I figure it can't hurt to use moisturizer. Dermatologists recommend it, they don't always recommend an expensive one but after laser treatment they issue instructions about moisturizing (normally with something found in a drug store) so there must be some benefit in their eyes as they aren't getting a cut of these profits... I know, I have a dermatologist that I've seen for many years and after any treatment she doesn't send me to the front lobby to get the spas 95.00 cream, she sends me to the drugstore for a 8.00 cream. She does however insist I keep a cream on the face after any treatment.
I don't think a $95.00 cream works better then a $8.00 cream...I know that's not true.
I do know that alcohol, drugs and nicotine dry and age skin as does the sun. I know water exercise and a healthy diet make for glowing skin... Glowing skin is a sign of inner heath and not a product you put on the face.
With that said....You'll never convince people to stop using moisturizers even if you are correct because the ad executives have made this a part of our daily life. If what you are saying is true it's too late...
Our skin makes its own protective layer of moist, tallow, enzymes, hormones etcetera, but...... the way we live our skin can use a little help.
Using a moisturiser or facial cream, as well as a body lotion will allow your skin some rest.
It wil not have to work so hard to get moist from the lower layers to the upper where it will evaporate very quickly due to our environment.
Moisturisers, facial cream and bodylotion contains stuff (glycerin for example) that will help keep the moist on your skin and therefor it is important to use.
So therefor I disaggree with the statement of the OP.
Going from experience I find that un-moisturized skin vs moisturized skin has a completely diff outcome. I will continue to warm up every single face that sits in my chair.
Aaliyah I
Posts: 221
Stevenage, England, United Kingdom
Instead of a moisturizer what do you suggest then ?
I don't see moisturizer as a pamper treatment I see it as a necessity . I've seen how it makes a difference to dry skin so I will continue to use as I can physically see the difference myself.
I understand that moisturizer wont make a huge difference to dehydrated skin , but it most certainly will to slightly dry skin.
What was your source ? And do they talk about primers ?...Now I'd like to know if primers actually make a difference !
MakeUp By CC
Posts: 290
Stockholm, Stockholm, Sweden
I def don't agree... there is a huge difference when applying makeup on skin "as is" or using moisturizer before...
Where I live most people have dry skin and a lot of people don't take care of their skin so it's a must for me to do it.
From my own experience on myself I can safely say that yes, creams work and yes not all creams are the same. That's a thing you usually discover when you've found the right one
Regardless of science, I see what happens to my own skin if I run out of my moisturiser for even a day AND I see how skin can be literally transformed in my chair with the right prep. Embryolisse being the most dramatic.
It makes a difference aesthetically and thats the business we are in. Whether they provide long term benefits, I dont care. For the few hours or so that a model is doing her thing in front of a camera, it gives noticeable results.
Why would I want to apply makeup to dry, flaky skin? Crepey dehydrated undereyes?! It just makes NO sense.
We can disagree on things. I am just presenting what dermatologic science has informed. My argument is that your models will photograph just as well without any form of moisturizing treatment before hand. I brought it up because its interesting and challenges dogma. And dogma must always submit to challenge.
"The OP sounds to me like you were not participating in a neutral scientic experiment with merit. merely testing conductivity through the dermis is not enought for you to prove or disprove. Seems to me like you had your mind made up and was only looking for something to validate your claim to the myth. Hardly seems like an appropriate assumption.
Secondly you instantly dish out anyone that doesnt agree with your opinion, telling people they are wrong because you think you are right is hardly the wording spoken by an impartial scientist investigating. "
Firstly, there are numerous papers on electrical conductivity of the skin. Its not my own work. Nonetheless, I have access to conductivity testing gear and found the same data. No woman i have tested ever had a skin moisture level that was outside of known limits.
Second, how you conclude that I dish out anything is puzzling. I have a perspective and conveyed it. Discuss the facts, that I have time for.
Your next statement Kat;
"Thats why we have cosmetologists, if they didnt work then we would have went out of business thousands of years ago."
This makes no sense. Just because people buy products doesnt mean those products work. The concept of selling "hope" is huge in the industry. The actual evidence for effectiveness of many cosmetic serums and nostrums is weak. Clinical studies without control groups or placebo are commonplace. Real double blind studies are rare and welcome when they exist. Data on the omega fatty acids and psoriasis are promising, whereas evidence that vitamin C applied topically is weak. You get the point, I would hardly call cosmetology a science.
If you are interested in the science end of things, I urge you to subscribe to cosmetic design.com.
I respect your opinions and would not have shared my own perspective if I didnt.
Davis W wrote: We can disagree on things. I am just presenting what dermatologic science has informed. My argument is that your models will photograph just as well without any form of moisturizing treatment before hand. I brought it up because its interesting and challenges dogma. And dogma must always submit to challenge.
"The OP sounds to me like you were not participating in a neutral scientic experiment with merit. merely testing conductivity through the dermis is not enought for you to prove or disprove. Seems to me like you had your mind made up and was only looking for something to validate your claim to the myth. Hardly seems like an appropriate assumption.
Secondly you instantly dish out anyone that doesnt agree with your opinion, telling people they are wrong because you think you are right is hardly the wording spoken by an impartial scientist investigating. "
Firstly, there are numerous papers on electrical conductivity of the skin. Its not my own work. Nonetheless, I have access to conductivity testing gear and found the same data. No woman i have tested ever had a skin moisture level that was outside of known limits.
Second, how you conclude that I dish out anything is puzzling. I have a perspective and conveyed it. Discuss the facts, that I have time for.
Your next statement Kat;
"Thats why we have cosmetologists, if they didnt work then we would have went out of business thousands of years ago."
This makes no sense. Just because people buy products doesnt mean those products work. The concept of selling "hope" is huge in the industry. The actual evidence for effectiveness of many cosmetic serums and nostrums is weak. Clinical studies without control groups or placebo are commonplace. Real double blind studies are rare and welcome when they exist. Data on the omega fatty acids and psoriasis are promising, whereas evidence that vitamin C applied topically is weak. You get the point, I would hardly call cosmetology a science.
If you are interested in the science end of things, I urge you to subscribe to cosmetic design.com.
I respect your opinions and would not have shared my own perspective if I didnt.
So your saying with or without moisturizer you have scientifically proven that models will photograph the same..HA id like to see the data of that scientific experiment....what a load of bull... secondly hope only gets sales so far... people return and continue to spend when they see results so your simplistic approach and dismissal of my comments is a joke.
SHOW me the science you so often refer to and rely to back up your story i doubt it exists and if it does its not a reliable and effective piece. I dont subscribe to cosmetic design cause they have their own agenda with their own backers....hmmm sounds familliar. I get my info from respected medical journals.
For everyone else, i do kindly wish for you to keep in mind there is a huge difference in skin lacking moisture (water) and skin lacking in sebum (oil) both should be treated completely differently and have different causes. Like i said before any person in the cosmetic industry would have at least half an idea of this and know this needs to be treated and not left to its own devices. The skin will not correct itself when the problem is commonly caused by irregularities in the functions of the skin.
Thats like saying someone with cancer shouldnt bother with treatment cause their body will correct itself and all is fine. what a joke and how simplistically stupid an argument.
Im all for having different opinions and not agreeing as this is a very subjective subject but to proclaim something that should be worshipped and everything else that is known and respected should be thrown out the window because of your "science" which is yet to be seen, is simplistically wrong. And justifying it with a flawed argument which dumbes down and simplifies everything just to make your point sound enticing is silly.
Davis W wrote: I see time and again, starting with Kevin Aucoin and down on through the decades, this advice, moisturize the skin before doing makeup for best results.
Unfortunately, this claim and advice does not stand up to any scientific test of validity. ...
While going for my MS in Nursing I heard some quoted research that the only way moisturizer applied actually helps skin retain any moisture is ONLY if it is applied within 3 minutes of the skin being wet from washing for showering.
Not alot of time.
Hey, maybe this means that a spray mist bottle immediately before applying moisturizer would do the trick to. AHA. I'm bringing my mister bottle!
i apply moisture to area needed, but it is only topical, as the health of skin comes from within, and then protected by what we do..
there is no 'right' answer as with everything it is opinion, backed by info, experience of 20+ years of experience, trial and error.
I really love this group and the valuable info, but not the 'right' fighters who seem to be be so easily "aggrivated' by someone not agreeing/or having a diff. in opinion, makes it hard to reaspect our art/craft to which i work soooo hard at, and hope share that love!
much love ;P
I've had more than one hung over model in my chair who's skin was in desperate need of a quick - albeit temporary- moisturizing fix.
Moisturizing is no more a mandatory step in makeup application as is eyeshadow primer, contouring...... Sometimes they are not called for. Sometimes they can be detrimental to the look. Sometimes they will save the day.
It's up to us as makeup artists to know our products and build the experience necessary to make the right call in order to Get The Look.
Education and skepticism are wonderful things and it is up to each of us to be able to spot marketing hype from hyperbola. That's why we have countless threads on Drugstore Brands, after all.
As far as Studies go, we live in an age where buying a foregone conclusion is considered a way of life in corporate america. Those touting a study are often perceived as having a self-serving agenda. These *facts" are one of the reasons behind some of the epic knock down, drag out fights her in HMS.
Answers are the easy part, questions raise the doubt - Jimmy Buffet.
Davis W wrote: I see time and again, starting with Kevin Aucoin and down on through the decades, this advice, moisturize the skin before doing makeup for best results.
Unfortunately, this claim and advice does not stand up to any scientific test of validity. It was Paula Begoin who first began to expose this myth in her old books, Dont Go to the Beauty Counter... and with each edition, with even more evidence from dermatologists, she debunked this myth. I am not referencing her book here though, I have done numerous skin conductivity tests in laboratories and her documentation is correct. The skin regulates its own moisture level and the use of most commercial products has little effect.
The way moisture levels in skin are measured is by using an electrode to test of conductivity. The normal skin moisture levels are 13-17 per cent. Below 11 we see skin cracking. Most studies have shown that the majority of women have a close to ideal skin moisture level.
Skin moisture is maintained by blood flow to the dermis and is protected by the release of sebum and transdermal ceramides. Essentially, the cut through the mountains of paperwork I have read on this topic, if you want moist skin, drink adequate water. Many studies have shown no effect on skin moisture levels using commercial products.
The only products with some discernable merit are osmotic moisturizers such as urea which attract water molecules into the epidermal space and are used in heel creams for skin cracking. This occurs frequently in winter, when ambient moisture levels drop below 35 per cent indoors, due to the use of heating.
Another problem with the moisturizer myth is that we are going to cover the face with primer and foundation anyhow, so that the skins moisture level will make no difference in appearance. By the time you have a layer of primer and foundation on the face, any contribution to skin tone or quality is being masked anyhow.
I know that pet ideas are not easily dispensed with in the light of evidence, and many people reject science on the basis of anecdotal experience. If you feel good moisturizing daily, by all means indulge. It feels great to spread a smooth lotion on the skin and if the moisturizer contains some active agent such as chamomile or mint, by all means enjoy the benefits of these herbal ingrediants.
But time and again its been shown that using moisturizers, especially for makeup preparation, is a waste of time and has no effect on the finished shoot quality. Perhaps more importantly, the myth that we tell women, to moisturize and use a toner daily, is just that, a myth. There is no demonstrable reason for most women to use a moisturizer.
Even in cases where there is obvious shedding of skin on the T zone, where it seems that moisture would help, the use of moisturizers is worthless. These problems do not arise from lack of skin moisture but from the fragility of the epidermal layer, which has many causes, some immunological, some not well understood. We know that skin cells often commit suicide, a process called autolysis, this is what happens after a bad sunburn, the cells release enzymes to self destruct. So what seems obvious, often isnt in dermatology.
The millions of dollars in moisturizer sales are evidence of the success of intutive marketing, that is, marketing to an intuitive notion, that putting a thin barrier of some chemical on the skin is going to improve skin moisture levels. Realize that skin moisture has to be controlled 24 hours a day and the body is very effective at this. It is absurd to think that applying some petroleum derivative, which is what most moisturizers are, will provide hours of moisture control. The benefit of emollients and other similar petrolatum based products are limited. Osmotic moisturizers, which have proven efficacy, are of little value for facial moisture control.
So you can safely skip the pseudo skin care routine when prepping your talent for a shoot. Just proceed with makeup application and leave the skin moisture control to the person's own body and things will turn out fine. The same is true after a shoot, there is little you can do other then clean the skin and keep all products off of it to let the skin recover.
My one caveat is this, if your model feels pampered and cared for by you taking the time to use a moisturizers, by all means use the placebo. If this establishes rapport and shows caring, go for it. I prefer to smile and make the model comfortable without that step. If your clients are likely to be impressed by the use of placebos to gain trust and confidence, go for it.
So you do not moisturize anyone? Is this what you are stating?
LisaJohnson
Posts: 10,515
Nashville, Tennessee, US
I'm a huge fan of serums. I find they soak into the skin really quick and tend to plump up the upper layer. I also like to use Cinema Secrets moisturizer spray. It's always in my kit. http://camerareadycosmetics.com/product … spray.html
I don't always use moisturizer before using most of the cream/liquid foundations with Silicone. If anything I mattify the tzone. It all depends on what foundations you're using IMHO.
so you made me curious. I put embryolisse miracle cream on half my face this morning...made sure it soaked in and then applied foundation...making sure to apply foundation and not mix from side to side (used different sponges on each side) The moisturized side did look better in my magnified lighted mirror... I don't think to the naked eye you would be able to tell... Hours later, no difference. So will it help in a photo shoot? probably not enough to make an on camera difference... Thats my experience for what it's worth.
I just wanted to add to what I have already said. I dont always moisturise. I do always cleanse with wipes first though.
Heres an example of what I meant earlier. Yesterday I had a model who had pretty much just stepped off a very long flight from South Africa. Her skin (whilst mostly clear) was really dry under her eyes and around her cheeks with noticeable flaky patches. Had I gone straight to foundation application those patches would have clogged and I probably would have caused micro-exfolliation when applying her base making the patches worse. Moisturiser (and some balm) got rid of those patches and made her base settle nicely. Without the moisturiser there would have been a noticeable difference in her skin and a lot more retouch needed.
If I am in a hurry on a commercial job though and the model has perfect skin its a wipe over with a facial wipe and straight to foundation. Sometimes, if their skin is really good they dont even get foundation
I find moisturizing (I prefer embryolisse-blue) instantly helps soften any blemishes the client may have and absolutely aids in the foundation going on smoothly over what could have otherwise been a "flakier" area. Mind you I don't use much but I always notice the difference when I have forgotten.
Davis W wrote: Thanks Mary, yeh, I would advise that you just try your own experiments. It doesnt matter what the theory is if you are seeing results or not.
My biggest concern is that unless one has xray eyes, you cannot see through foundation anyhow.
"So you do not moisturize anyone? Is this what you are stating?"
Yep, in a word.
Kat, you certainly loved to come out swinging. I think you Aussies are a tough bunch!
Thanks for the comments, sometimes a bit of controversy makes the forums more interesting!
Elizabethmakeup
Posts: 338
Hereford, England, United Kingdom
Davis W wrote: My argument is that your models will photograph just as well without any form of moisturizing treatment before hand.
I disagree. There is a big difference between moisturised and un-moisturised skin and I always apply moisturiser to my models.
I also think that it is a little premature to read one study and then state emphatically that moisturiser is a waste of time. After cleansing my face, I have to use moisturiser and have found that my skin is in better condition for it.
Emper Atrizz
Posts: 35
Ljubljana, Osrednjeslovenska, Slovenia
Most of the time moisturizer on client is a must. A lot of actors, singers and models dont treat ther skin and if ther is dry skin, with foundation it will be even more obvious, especially in HD and on photos for beauty shoots. But many times good primer and nice cleansing is anough.
I like homepatic approach like Dr. Hauschka have. You go to bed with cleansed face and no cream so that you skin can naturaly regenerate. If you use rich cleansing lotion or some light oils for removing your makeup you dont need creams after. So all this night creams are just marketing business and your skin gets lazy :)You mature faster!
Now I use two moisturiser made by some ladys with natural products and knowledge the first is cream based on Teran (red wine) bees wax. karite butter, olive oil and the second is Honey delight with honey, karite butterpropolis,tamanu oil and I applied it allways on moist skin. My skin is all new for real
interesting writeup but everybody's skin is different and the findings is based on "normal" skin. I read a lot about Kevin Aucoin and I think moisturizers helped becasue of the type of clients he was dealing with. I highly doubt they had normal skin because they were high profile people and lived a very busy unstable life.
I have really rough skin myself and noticed that using moisturizer helps.
Jenni Defalco
Posts: 454
Stevenage, England, United Kingdom
I always moisturise clients with an appropriate face cream but saying that my oily skin wasn't holding liquid foundation very well and i've found it has actually improved with a few weeks of not being moisurised , just going straight to foundation ... Still unsure on this arguement tho! X
I've heard moisturizers are nice... most of the females I know of use them regularly, with an onslaught of other facial products.
I don't use one personally, or professionally.
If I was was doing consultative makeup, and building a skincare regiment... I would probably recommend one (because that's what ive been taught)
I use creme foundation... if the skin is oily I use T-zone blotting paper first. Otherwise, I assume that any skin problems they have will exist before and after they are in my chair. - ive never had a problem applying creme foundation to dry skin. *shrugs* I just build it to an even, dewy finish... then set/buff with a translucent powder.
......................
the science might be right... and it wouldn't surprise me. - doesn't mean anyone will listen. -- We KNOW that fluoride is only minimally effective at providing ANY dental benefits (actually CAUSES fluorosis, among a ton of other detrimental side effects) yet we ingest it in our drinking water, and use it in our toothpaste because... guess what? someone BOUGHT some studies to make it seem beneficial. (there have been tons of other studies stating the contrary) again... nobody will listen.
Natalia_Taffarel wrote: The OP is not listing science, just biased research
I'll listen to my M.D. Dermatology instead
This is not biased research. Its just regular physiology. I would suspect that if one wanted to located biased research, one would start with a cosmetic company.
If it helps at all, I hold a doctorate and have taught dermatology at both the undergraduate and graduate levels.
That having been said, most MDs know sweet dick all about the skin and beauty. They frequently advise patients to use various products they saw their mom use. Oil of Olay is frequently suggested! Most male MDs have never even heard of Vichy, LaRoche Posay, Dermatologica, and the rest. Their info is kinda helpful but often uninformed.
And its fair to say that if you find that moisturizing the skin helps you get a better photoshoot, by all means go for it. Science changes and so do opinions
I first developed an aversion to using moisturizer when I found that my foundation ran over it like slickum and wouldnt set. The more I avoided moisturizer, the better my foundations went on. Instead of a semi greasy film on the skin, I had nice, fresh skin to work on.
I think, even the science notwithstanding, you have to go with your gut. KJ Bennet moisturizes and he is no slouch! I am just willing to bet him a Canadian dollar that his work wouldnt look any different if he skipped that step.
Lisa Berczel wrote: Moisturizing is no more a mandatory step in makeup application as is eyeshadow primer, contouring...... Sometimes they are not called for. Sometimes they can be detrimental to the look. Sometimes they will save the day.
It's up to us as makeup artists to know our products and build the experience necessary to make the right call in order to Get The Look.
^^^this^^^
I'd like to thank Lisa (once again) for providing the most concise observation and response.
Davis W wrote: KJ Bennet moisturizes and he is no slouch! I am just willing to bet him a Canadian dollar that his work wouldnt look any different if he skipped that step.
Thank you for the compliment (I think it was a compliment?) But unfortunately, I call bullsh*t on your observation and bet.
Davis, you and everyone else are entitled to your opinions. So please feel free to continue speculating on how I could do my job more effectively, you might actually come up with something worthwhile ...eventually.
Since you mentioned by drinking ample amounts of water it helps the skin condition.
I have always wondered if in environments like Vancouver or London where it is wet/humid a lot of the year is there evidence that the general skin health is better in environments with high humidity and moderate to clement temperatures?
Thank you for the compliment (I think it was a compliment?) But unfortunately, I call bullsh*t on your observation and bet.
Davis, you and everyone else are entitled to your opinions. So please feel free to continue speculating on how I could do my job more effectively, you might actually come up with something worthwhile ...eventually.
Should be easy enough to do a test, one half of the face with moisturizer before application the other no.
I do think that certain moisturizers will have different adhesion qualities for any products applied over them, which most certainly will have a difference in appearance. Yet how many of you MUA actually work with photographers who shoot sharp without retouching the shit out of the skin anyway?
Neil Snape wrote: Should be easy enough to do a test, one half of the face with moisturizer before application the other no.
no -
Proper training and experience allow us to know the best way to prep each individual skin to get optimum results.
Besides, are you willing to wait while I "test" two different makeup applications to see which one works better? Then wait while I remove the half I didn't like and try to match it to the other side? This is not smart time management.
Neil Snape wrote: I do think that certain moisturizers will have different adhesion qualities for any products applied over them, which most certainly will have a difference in appearance.
Correct -
And it's up to an artist to have the proper products with them.
Neil Snape wrote: Yet how many of you MUA actually work with photographers who shoot sharp without retouching the shit out of the skin anyway?
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