I am using both the 27" and 22" Beauty dish by Elinchrom, I have the sock for the 22" and the Grid by Honeycomb for the 27".
I am using Elinchrom BX600 strobes...
My question is that it seems as if I am just nuking everything I shoot with way too much power and zero direction of the light... it goes everywhere. Seems as if the grid blows everything out even more so then using it bare with just the silver deflector
I am set up at low power 2.3 on strobe, camera is anywhere from f8-13 80-250 at iso 100
I have the dish 3-4 ft from subject, 1-2 feet overhead...
I just don't get where I am going wrong
Anyone lend a hand or suggestions would be very much appreciated.
NewBoldPhoto
Posts: 4,641
PORT MURRAY, New Jersey, US
how are you determining exposure? If 'nuking" means overexposing then its a problem with your metering. If "nuking" means flat washed out lighting try repositioning your subject relative to the light.
Dan Brady
Posts: 557
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Sir Johnnycakes wrote: I am using both the 27" and 22" Beauty dish by Elinchrom, I have the sock for the 22" and the Grid by Honeycomb for the 27".
I am using Elinchrom BX500 strobes...
My question is that it seems as if I am just nuking everything I shoot with way too much power and zero direction of the light... it goes everywhere. Seems as if the grid blows everything out even more so then using it bare with just the silver deflector
I am set up at low power 2.3 on strobe, camera is anywhere from f8-13 80-250 at iso 100
I have the dish 3-4 ft from subject, 1-2 feet overhead...
I just don't get where I am going wrong
Anyone lend a hand or suggestions would be very much appreciated.
Thank you
You could try this book
Light It. Shoot It. Retouch It. by Scott Kelby
He uses the same model lighting setup and one of the tutorials uses the same beauty dish. I think it's around $17 on kindle. Very useful to have on ipad in the studio.
Robert Beyer
Posts: 159
Wolverine Lake, Michigan, US
Are you shooting at max sync speed? ie. 200 or 250?
Not familiar with Elinchrome - think its the 500 w/s one? I'd keep testing with it at it's full range from lowest possible setting and play with positioning (point slightly up or down) till you get what you want.
Also are you using a light meter? (incident or reflective?)
Best wishes, I'm sure there are plenty of more experienced beauty dish users here to help.
Sir Johnnycakes wrote: I am set up at low power 2.3 on strobe, camera is anywhere from f8-13 80-250 at iso 100
I have the dish 3-4 ft from subject, 1-2 feet overhead...
Unless you are outside or in bright sun or bright window light, the 1/80-1/250 shutter speed affects almost nothing. Lower the power to 1.5 and move the light back to 5-6 feet, especially with the grid. Then start at f11-f16. That will lower the light and allow you to see light cone. Feather the light 45 degree to the side and slowly move it back toward the subject.
RKD Photographic
Posts: 2,989
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
I had the exact same problem by the sound of it, so I binned the BD altogether - a 42cm model - never could figure it out... It sits gathering dust in the corner of the studio now...lol
No matter what settings I used: gridded, ungridded, sock, no sock, varying distances, angles, output etc, the light was way too harsh and the shadows too deep for my liking...
I found that I like the light from beauty dishes a lot better in most cases if I feather the light, i.e., if I light the model with the edge of the dish, not the center of it.
I also found this blog very helpful when I started shooting with a dish.
The author of the blog is on MM. He lives north of San Francisco (not the other Dave Davis on MM, who lives in Colorado as I recall). His MM username is davedavis, without a space.
To be honest, it really doesn't matter what lighting scource or modifier you are using, nor does it matter how you set the lights up, their location, positioning or anything like that.
At the end of the day as a photographer you can do what, use what you want and setup things how you want. (even if your results suck)
Your only issue here is your dialing in of the camera settings. If you are not using a light meter thats your first problem. You need to be able to determine the right apature and of course shutter speed and ISO.
My question is that it seems as if I am just nuking everything I shoot with way too much power and zero direction of the light... it goes everywhere. Seems as if the grid blows everything out even more so then using it bare with just the silver deflector
...
Let's be clear about terminology here - specifically "blows everything out even more".
If your exposure settings are kept constant (iso, shutter speed, aperture) and the light power is kept constant, adding a grid to the beauty dish could not make the images blow out even more. It would somehow have to add light.
When you add the grid, what else is changing?
Also, are you 100% sure that you are in manual mode? If you are *not*, then adding a grid will *really* cut down on the ambient light used to meter, which would then change your exposure settings causing the addition of the grid to probably blow things out even more.
You should post some images with exif data so we can see what you are talking about.
BTW, my avatar was shot with a BD and einstein, 3 feet from the model at most, and socked. There was plenty of leeway to go with less power on the light and a lower DOF, or more power on the light and a higher DOF.
RKD Photographic
Posts: 2,989
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
Camerosity wrote: I found that I like the light from beauty dishes a lot better in most cases if I feather the light, i.e., if I light the model with the edge of the dish, not the center of it.
I also found this blog very helpful when I started shooting with a dish.
The author of the blog is on MM. He lives north of San Francisco (not the other Dave Davis on MM, who lives in Colorado as I recall). His MM username is davedavis, without a space.
Thanks - a much better response than 'learn how to use a camera/light-meter' which makes the assumption that some of us don't......
I am far from new at this, I understand the camera, just new to strobes, been using Speedlites before this...
So yes, I am sure I am using Manual mode, and my iso is at 100
I am shooting 1DS MII starting off at 200 shutter and f8.... and varying from there to 250... then f9, f11, f13
The room may be a little small, and the ceilings are only 10' so maybe that could have an effect with light bouncing all over the place.
I agree with getting a light meter, I am planning on it. I am just concerned I can't see any character in the images at all, everything is just blown highlights and very flat.
As far as the grid changing the exposure, it most certainly does, seems as if it is concentrating the light on the face which is blowing out cheeks more so then with it off.... no change in settings whatsoever. Maybe it has to with it being a white grid, I haven't ever used a white grid before.
The Elinchrom BX500's that I have start at the lowest setting of 2.3 and go up from there so that is the lowest I can go (far as I know)
I appreciate the time to help me out, thank you for all the suggestions
SKITA Studios
Posts: 1,321
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Sir Johnnycakes wrote: I agree with getting a light meter, I am planning on it. I am just concerned I can't see any character in the images at all, everything is just blown highlights and very flat.
You're way overexposed probably...we need pics.
I love my BD and use it a lot...but I'd never use it w/o a meter..
vbi
Posts: 63
Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa
Jeff Fiore wrote: It could simply be that your strobe is too powerful even at the lowest setting for such a small space.
+1.
On my RX600s I use a setting of 1.5 as the beauty dish is far more reflective than a softbox with one or two layers of diffusion material. It is quite strange that the light goes all over the place with the grid though which leads me to believe that your strobe is supplying too much light on it's lowest setting and this is being reflected from the walls and ceiling in the limited space.
Sir Johnnycakes wrote: I am far from new at this, I understand the camera, just new to strobes, been using Speedlites before this...
So yes, I am sure I am using Manual mode, and my iso is at 100
I am shooting 1DS MII starting off at 200 shutter and f8.... and varying from there to 250... then f9, f11, f13
The room may be a little small, and the ceilings are only 10' so maybe that could have an effect with light bouncing all over the place.
I agree with getting a light meter, I am planning on it. I am just concerned I can't see any character in the images at all, everything is just blown highlights and very flat.
As far as the grid changing the exposure, it most certainly does, seems as if it is concentrating the light on the face which is blowing out cheeks more so then with it off.... no change in settings whatsoever. Maybe it has to with it being a white grid, I haven't ever used a white grid before.
The Elinchrom BX500's that I have start at the lowest setting of 2.3 and go up from there so that is the lowest I can go (far as I know)
I appreciate the time to help me out, thank you for all the suggestions
I will try and post some results soon
Have you checked to see if your lens is malfunctioning? It could be staying at max aperture even though you've set the camera to stop it down. I had that happen with a Tamron 28-75 -- a factory repair solved the problem.
Thank you for all the help, I finally got it sorted... it was the room I was in, I guess the dish was so close to the white ceiling that the spill was acting like a bounce flash and killing everything.
The grid definitely yielded some horrible results, will post the comparison photos when I get the files loaded up.
RKD Photographic wrote: I had the exact same problem by the sound of it, so I binned the BD altogether - a 42cm model - never could figure it out... It sits gathering dust in the corner of the studio now...lol
No matter what settings I used: gridded, ungridded, sock, no sock, varying distances, angles, output etc, the light was way too harsh and the shadows too deep for my liking...
That sucks..
I was going to suggest the OP check that the aperture is not sticking open on the lens. I've had that give me the same problem.
Sir Johnnycakes wrote: Thank you for all the help, I finally got it sorted... it was the room I was in, I guess the dish was so close to the white ceiling that the spill was acting like a bounce flash and killing everything.
The grid definitely yielded some horrible results, will post the comparison photos when I get the files loaded up.
Thank you
If possible, can you give us a wide shot of how the light was setup in the studio and just how close it was to the ceiling?
Spill? That doesn't make sense. Especially the way he was describing the results. Where would there be spill with a grid on?
I think we need to look at the failure of the strobe to set the power settings or the camera to stop down properly.
However, he says he got it working, so who knows?
I guess we will just have to see if it repeats itself sometime in the future. I know a silver BD is way more efficient than a white and even spray painted my friends white to make it more useable.
Innovative Imagery wrote: Spill? That doesn't make sense. Especially the way he was describing the results. Where would there be spill with a grid on?
I think we need to look at the failure of the strobe to set the power settings or the camera to stop down properly.
However, he says he got it working, so who knows?
I guess we will just have to see if it repeats itself sometime in the future. I know a silver BD is way more efficient than a white and even spray painted my friends white to make it more useable.
I thought that too. 100w/s is a lot of light close up. But still, the reflection on the ceiling affecting that sort of problem, seems a bit excessive to me too.
Until you get a meter try using a white towel or wash cloth. Have your subject hold it next to their face. Are your overexposure blinkies...blinking in the white area? If so, then yes, your over exposing. Stop down the aperture or power until they just stop blinking.
or
bring up the image in PS/LR and measure the white towel. White with detail is about 240-245. If it's more than that your overexposing.
Even a subject wearing a whit shirt will at least tell you what's going on exposure wise just by looking at the histogram or blinkies.
photoimager
Posts: 4,111
Stoke-on-Trent, England, United Kingdom
Sir Johnnycakes wrote: I am using Elinchrom BX500 strobes...
My question is that it seems as if I am just nuking everything I shoot with way too much power and zero direction of the light... it goes everywhere. Seems as if the grid blows everything out even more so then using it bare with just the silver deflector
I am set up at low power 2.3 on strobe, camera is anywhere from f8-13 80-250 at iso 100
I have the dish 3-4 ft from subject, 1-2 feet overhead...
Similar distances to the OP. Gridded white Hensel dish on a 500 W/S head set 2 stops down from max, F11 ISO 200, white background and floor, additional light on the model's face ( accent tube / snoot ), black polyboards either side of the model, in a 15' long room by 10' wide. The light fall off is due to the grid, not done in post.
No grid and with a pair of lights on the background. Same camera settings but the BD was set a stop lower than before due to not having the output loss due to the grid and the polyboards were reversed to give a white reflecting surface.
OP, from what you describe it is either user error or a camera aperture malfunction. At base ISO you should be able to stop down enough for correct exposure at the lowest power settings of your lights and still have more stops to go on the aperture. If images in other setups are being correctly exposed with the same lens / camera combination then it is not the camera hardware.
Sir Johnnycakes wrote: I am using both the 27" and 22" Beauty dish by Elinchrom, I have the sock for the 22" and the Grid by Honeycomb for the 27".
I am using Elinchrom BX500 strobes...
My question is that it seems as if I am just nuking everything I shoot with way too much power and zero direction of the light... it goes everywhere. Seems as if the grid blows everything out even more so then using it bare with just the silver deflector
I am set up at low power 2.3 on strobe, camera is anywhere from f8-13 80-250 at iso 100
I have the dish 3-4 ft from subject, 1-2 feet overhead...
I just don't get where I am going wrong
Anyone lend a hand or suggestions would be very much appreciated.
Sir Johnnycakes wrote: I am far from new at this, I understand the camera, just new to strobes, been using Speedlites before this...
So yes, I am sure I am using Manual mode, and my iso is at 100
I am shooting 1DS MII starting off at 200 shutter and f8.... and varying from there to 250... then f9, f11, f13
The room may be a little small, and the ceilings are only 10' so maybe that could have an effect with light bouncing all over the place.
I agree with getting a light meter, I am planning on it. I am just concerned I can't see any character in the images at all, everything is just blown highlights and very flat.
As far as the grid changing the exposure, it most certainly does, seems as if it is concentrating the light on the face which is blowing out cheeks more so then with it off.... no change in settings whatsoever. Maybe it has to with it being a white grid, I haven't ever used a white grid before.
The Elinchrom BX500's that I have start at the lowest setting of 2.3 and go up from there so that is the lowest I can go (far as I know)
I appreciate the time to help me out, thank you for all the suggestions
I will try and post some results soon
If you test the light at that lowest setting vs mid and high, can you tell (with your eyes) that the light is less powerful than the higher settings? Maybe it's always outputting HIGH.
Unless it's lowest setting is still a very high setting, there is little reason with the camera settings you're using for it to be blowing out.
fwiw. I have a 22-inch white BD from alien bees. A friend of mine has a 22-inch SILVER BD from AB. My dish requires MORE power than hers. But not THAT much more.
Since you said your ISO is at 100, make sure you don't have some auto ISO mode turned on. Check the data on your photos to see what settings/ISO is being recorded.
Faulty Focus
Posts: 669
Kamloops, British Columbia, Canada
photoimager wrote:
Similar distances to the OP. Gridded white Hensel dish on a 500 W/S head set 2 stops down from max, F11 ISO 200, white background and floor, additional light on the model's face ( accent tube / snoot ), black polyboards either side of the model, in a 15' long room by 10' wide. The light fall off is due to the grid, not done in post.
No grid and with a pair of lights on the background. Same camera settings but the BD was set a stop lower than before due to not having the output loss due to the grid and the polyboards were reversed to give a white reflecting surface.
OP, from what you describe it is either user error or a camera aperture malfunction. At base ISO you should be able to stop down enough for correct exposure at the lowest power settings of your lights and still have more stops to go on the aperture. If images in other setups are being correctly exposed with the same lens / camera combination then it is not the camera hardware.
Nice examples on how to get two very different looks.
Sir Johnnycakes wrote: I am far from new at this, I understand the camera, just new to strobes, been using Speedlites before this...
So yes, I am sure I am using Manual mode, and my iso is at 100
I am shooting 1DS MII starting off at 200 shutter and f8.... and varying from there to 250... then f9, f11, f13
The room may be a little small, and the ceilings are only 10' so maybe that could have an effect with light bouncing all over the place.
I agree with getting a light meter, I am planning on it. I am just concerned I can't see any character in the images at all, everything is just blown highlights and very flat.
As far as the grid changing the exposure, it most certainly does, seems as if it is concentrating the light on the face which is blowing out cheeks more so then with it off.... no change in settings whatsoever. Maybe it has to with it being a white grid, I haven't ever used a white grid before.
The Elinchrom BX500's that I have start at the lowest setting of 2.3 and go up from there so that is the lowest I can go (far as I know)
I appreciate the time to help me out, thank you for all the suggestions
I will try and post some results soon
I had assumed a black grid. A white grid could definitely concentrate the light more - my apologies for that assumption!
sounds like a good call
| 
| 
| edu