Model
PigeonFoo
Posts: 284
Syracuse, New York, US
Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I don't understand the entire concept from the photographers point of view. Isn't a casting call to determine if you are even interested in hiring the person? Why would you pay a model to show up for an interview. And if they're paying $20 for an actual shoot, it's not a casting call. I'm confused Who said anything about an interview?
The casting call is the announcement the photographer posts online stating he wants to shoot, the general concept, and the rate (in the case of this thread between $20 and $40.) The money is paid for the actual shoot when the model shows up.
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
Sita Mae wrote:
I'm pretty sure she's talking about casting calls posted on MM which offer a shoot rate of $20 or $30 per hour.  A little slow today. After I posted I went back and edited because "it hit me." Thanks
Photographer
S
Posts: 21678
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Michael Pandolfo wrote:
A little slow today. After I posted I went back and edited because "it hit me." Thanks I've been slow all week! 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
PigeonFoo wrote:
Who said anything about an interview?
The casting call is the announcement the photographer posts online stating he wants to shoot, the general concept, and the rate (in the case of this thread between $20 and $40.) The money is paid for the actual shoot when the model shows up. I got it. I was thinking the photographer was holding a casting and paying $20 to any model who showed up. It took me a while to get there because I've never used the Casting Call feature...and because I haven't had my iced coffee yet.
Model
Tiffiney C
Posts: 570
Los Angeles, California, US
Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I got it. I was thinking the photographer was holding a casting and paying $20 to any model who showed up. It took me a while to get there because I've never used the Casting Call feature...and because I haven't had my iced coffee yet. Lmao good morning
Photographer
DMesser Photography
Posts: 1288
Oceanside, California, US
KimCalNude wrote:
There are many excellent non-professional photographers on MM who simply have very limited funds. As a non-professional myself, I judge who I work with by the quality of their work, not by how much they can pay. Just my opinion... Kim is right. Some of us are experienced hobbyist since we don't make any money off the shoots we do. The economy is affecting all of us. I sometimes put in a casting for $30/hr for glamour/nude work. I don't expect really experienced models, but new models or some experienced models who don't get paid a lot. I also give all the photos on CD from the shoot. So you get all the small amount of pay and the photos. I'd love to be able to offer $150/hr, but just isn't in the books just yet.
Don
Photographer
Select Model Studios
Posts: 818
Tempe, Arizona, US
As someone who is not really willing to pay more then $20-$40 for a model, I'll throw my 2 cents in. For starters a lot of people do this for fun. I just started 5 or 6 months ago. I get a few small paying jobs here and there, but nothing that will pay the bills. On top of the cost of gear.. it's a very expensive hobby! Now I will gladly throw you $30 or whatever you come hangout a few hours and shoot. But I can't justify spending $80+ an hour when 1. My skill set isn't there yet. To me it would be wasting money. And 2 I'm not willing to drop say $200 on a shoot that will benefit me nothing but maybe a couple images. If I get paid, you get paid! Other then that it's just for fun.
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4060
New York, New York, US
Sita Mae wrote:
$20 to $30 an hour (untaxed) is a lot more than a lot of people make at their day jobs. Granted, it won't be suitable for everyone, but for the right person a few hours at that rate could totally be worth it. Lots of MM models don't get paid opportunities very often, let alone the high paying opportunities that the more popular models get. For them, landing a casting like this might be thrilling. It's all relative. 20-30 per hour is a totally acceptable rate for a lot of different people. I was under the impression we were discussing the $20-30 flat payment for a full day castings that seem to be trending right now.
This is what I get for posting pre first cup of coffee 
Photographer
S
Posts: 21678
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Paige Morgan wrote:
20-30 per hour is a totally acceptable rate for a lot of different people. I was under the impression we were discussing the $20-30 flat payment for a full day castings that seem to be trending right now.
This is what I get for posting pre first cup of coffee Is that really a trend? Wow. Maybe I'm the one who needs more coffee!
Photographer
Capitol City Boudoir
Posts: 774
Sacramento, California, US
Why pay $50, $60 or even $100 per hour when there are models willing to shoot for $20 to $25 per hour. Most are not professionals and are simply looking to earn some extra money.
Model
J Jessica
Posts: 2431
Coconut Creek, Florida, US
Tiffiney C wrote:
I hope you are being facetious. I guess $20 is a lot of money if your job pays $8/hr, or you live with your mom, or you don't have to provide clothing, shoes or wardrobe for the $20 comped shoot. Not saying that you are any of the above, but do you think that $20 is worth 2-4 hours of your time? Yes, I do as long as it is in the Metro area.
I already own clothing and many heels.
If I don't own something already, I can borrow something or thrift for it.
Trains and buses are cheap to take (especially since I get student/etc discounts), so I don't have to use gas money.
I'm sorry for being so positive... o_O
Model
Tiffiney C
Posts: 570
Los Angeles, California, US
J Jessica wrote:
Yes, I do as long as it is in the Metro area.
I already own clothing and many heels.
If I don't own something already, I can borrow something or thrift for it.
Trains and buses are cheap to take (especially since I get student/etc discounts), so I don't have to use gas money.
I'm sorry for being so positive... o_O Nothing wrong with being positive but after you thrift, pay for you roundtrip travel be it $5 or $10, how much do you go home with?
Model
The Grace Gabbana
Posts: 358
Santa Rosa, California, US
Okay, now I'm confused. And I definitely haven't had my morning coffee yet. Can someone clue me in? Are we talking about $20-$40 per hour or a $20-$40 flat rate for a full day of shooting?
G
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Tiffiney C wrote:
That's working 40 hour weeks. I doubt the photographers are paying for the entire 8 hour day or every day of the week for that matter. In retrospect it's making $40 in a day ($5/hr) by keeping that day empty for a shoot. Even doing 3 shoots that day (which I tend to do when traveling) will amount to $120, still less than the $40k average. Modeling is no comparison to a 9-5. You are correct that it isn't exactly the same, but I notice a lot of the models saying its way too low are freelance nude models.
There are a lot of part time models who book promo work that is often in that same page range depending on their market and agency.
Photographer
Spree Photos
Posts: 403
Atlanta, Georgia, US
ASHZ Shank wrote:
To answer the simple question as of why such a small amount of money... Something that is ignored about most photographers is, a lot of us don't get paid for our work. We spend thousands in gear, cameras, lighting and such and don't have the money to shell out a hundred bucks an hour all the time. I understand as a model that you want to make money, but let me ask you this, how many people out of the industry do you know that make a hundred bucks an hour. I'm not complaining and understand models will charge what they feel, but sometimes we just can't afford to pay that much, being we still have car payments, bills, house payments and all that, and for probably many of us, this is a passion, but also a hobby. very well stated.
personally, i do not see what the problem is. some folks take themselves much too seriously. in this economy, $20-$30 is way above minimum wage, and there are quite a few people who would jump at any opportunity to make a couple bucks.
those who are looking for, or waiting for, big bucks projects should not look to photographers to supply those projects. major agencies working on behalf of major companies offer those projects.
asking whether or not those photographers are targeting newbies or professional models sounds like snobbery to me. absolutely no one on MM (a free website) can afford to be a snob... maybe only me (joke).
Model
Tiffiney C
Posts: 570
Los Angeles, California, US
The Grace Gabbana wrote:
Okay, now I'm confused. And I definitely haven't had my morning coffee yet. Can someone clue me in? Are we talking about $20-$40 per hour or a $20-$40 flat rate for a full day of shooting?
G Primarily I was talking about $20-30 flat
Photographer
Designit - Edward Olson
Posts: 1708
West Hollywood, California, US
Who are these castings targeting? (My assumption as I have never posted such a casting):
1. Models who filter out TFP castings. Have to specify the pay.
and/or
2. Models who will accept that rate.
Photographer
S
Posts: 21678
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Tiffiney C wrote:
Primarily I was talking about $20-30 flat I totally misunderstood your whole thread. Apologies! $20 - $30 flat is basically covering travel expenses and maybe lunch on a collaborative shoot. Which is not outrageous if both parties are excited to collaborate. But it's kind of a stretch to call it a paid shoot.
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
Tiffiney C wrote:
Primarily I was talking about $20-30 flat I'm afraid to even post after my previous gaffe but...
Ok...so let's say the llama receives $20 flat.
Shoot - 2 hrs (min)
Travel - 1 hr RT
Prep time - 1 hr
Sundries (Bottled H2O and a granola bar)
The $20 shoot is taking 4 hrs, so we're down to $5/hr. - now subtract the sundries and ? And that's not even taking into account if the llama purchased anything directly related to the shoot.
I'm afraid to ask if my math was proper. (and when I did become British all of a sudden? proper? gaff?) What rubbish!
Photographer
Donald M Falls
Posts: 134
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
$20-$40/hr is really a good start if a model want to build portfolio or want to experience and learn how to follow direction while working with photographers. Simple as that. At least they are getting paid for it. Therefore, models can just look for other dreams while modeling (as backup). Once you become improver into modeling, you will be worth-deserving for a lot more.
Same goes with some photographers who wanted to learn how to shoot, it would be a waste of big money if she/he only need to experience and learn how to master the camera by studying the light, composition, experimental, framing and etc. They might or might not been to photography school but it's a good start. Photographers not going to learn from reading only, she/he must do hands on. It is a challenge and can be fun at the same time.
Everyone will have to learn. It is better than nothing.
Model
Tiffiney C
Posts: 570
Los Angeles, California, US
Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I'm afraid to even post after my previous gaffe but...
Ok...so let's say the model receives $20 flat.
Shoot - 2 hrs (min)
Travel - 1 hr RT
Prep time - 1 hr
Sundries (Bottled H2O and a granola bar)
The $20 shoot is taking 4 hrs, so we're down to $5/hr. - now subtract the sundries and ? And that's not even taking into account if the model purchased anything directly related to the shoot.
I'm afraid to ask if my math was proper. (and when I did become British all of a sudden? proper? gaff?) What rubbish! Thats what I was saying
Photographer
Connor Photography
Posts: 8539
Newark, Delaware, US
If the offer is sincere and genuine, I don't see why people complain. If it is not your cup of tea, move on. No one twist your arm to take that offer. Likewise, don't get pissed if other models happily accept their offers.
It is like you are upset with your best friend becasue she is going to marry the ugly man that you used to date. Come on be happy for her.
I am just sayin'
Model
The Grace Gabbana
Posts: 358
Santa Rosa, California, US
Tiffiney C wrote:
Primarily I was talking about $20-30 flat Geez that's about $4 per hour for a full day. No effing way.
G
Model
Tiffiney C
Posts: 570
Los Angeles, California, US
Connor Photography wrote:
If the offer is sincere and genuine, I don't see why people complain. If it is not your cup of tea, move on. No one twist your arm to take that offer. Likewise, don't get pissed if other models happily accept their offers.
It is like you are upset with your best friend becasue she is going to marry the ugly man that you used to date. Come on be happy for her.
I am just sayin' You clearly didn't read the whole post. It's UNDERSTANDING THE MINDSET. Not pissed because people are doing anything.
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Tiffiney C wrote:
Primarily I was talking about $20-30 flat That is a TFP with a tip not a paid job.
Model
Eric Striker
Posts: 1
Dallas, Texas, US
PigeonFoo wrote:
I'd shoot for sushi. I'm not even gunna lie. Good sushi at a nice place could set them back $100 easy.
Model
LizzyB
Posts: 2225
Rochester, New York, US
B R U N E S C I wrote:
There's always somebody who needs the money, even $20 per hour. It's a lot better than minimum wage, or nothing.
I'm guessing that's the general thinking behind these castings.
Just my $0.02
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com heh, $20 is almost double what i've made at any of my "real" jobs.
plus i am guessing model pay is usually cash, so no taxes (unless you are an agency model, or model full-time)
Model
LizzyB
Posts: 2225
Rochester, New York, US
Tiffiney C wrote:
Primarily I was talking about $20-30 flat oooh. i should've read the whole thread before replying, lol.
i guess then one could call that gas monies?
Photographer
Ken Pegg
Posts: 1858
Weymouth, England, United Kingdom
Frankly some models are only worth $20-30. Controversial, maybe, but the same applies to many photographers who advertise their skills on here...
Photographer
Halcyon Arts
Posts: 173
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Tiffiney C wrote:
Nothing wrong with being positive but after you thrift, pay for you roundtrip travel be it $5 or $10, how much do you go home with? There's a huge difference in cost of living and therefore utility of a dollar between places like NYC, DC, San Francisco and many of the smaller cities in the US. I would expect that most New Yorkers would find it unprofitable even just for the costs of transportation, but in many smaller towns it would be a nice little bonus.
Photographer
Mosttry
Posts: 1355
Los Angeles, California, US
Tiffiney C wrote:
Nothing wrong with being positive but after you thrift, pay for you roundtrip travel be it $5 or $10, how much do you go home with? ...my guess is she goes home with more than she started with. ?
I think anyone can figure out why someone might offer and why someone might accept a $20 shoot.
a) Will all models accept a $20 offer? Nopes. But not all models will accept a $50/hr offer. No photographer and no model with any common sense expects that their requirements will be acceptable to all potential collaborators.
b) There seems to also be a slight to models who do accept a $20 offer. Do photographers expect high-profile, experienced, published models to accept the offer? Probably not. But there *are* experienced models (models who have done a lot of shoots) who are willing to accept the $20 offer. It is possible to get what you want from a model for $20. Everyshoot is different. Every model is different.
c) A photographer might offer $20 for a shoot that they consider TF, but they want to try to help ensure the model doesn't cancel. In my experience, the cancellation rate *is* lower when a modest 'gas stipend' is offered. Bottom line: it's a $20 shoot and even if the model spends $10 on gas and/or parking, the model has $10 that they didn't have before. Again, every individual will decide what's worth their time. Would I expect $20 to entice a model who doesn't like my work to shoot with me? Nopes. But if the model *does* like my work, maybe that, plus $20, makes the job a little more worth her time.
d) As far as photographers who never offer more than $20... A photographer might be a hobbyist and they figure, depending on how many shoots they do per year, that they can afford to pay each model $20. Should they expect to work with every model they like? Nopes. But there are plenty of criteria by which a model might refuse to work with a specific photographer. I doubt a $20 photographer is any less aware of that fact than a photographer who is paying $120/hr.
e) As far as photographers who never offer more than $20... Maybe the photographer is a professional and that's what he's willing to pay a specific model b/c that's what he thinks the model is worth...or b/c that's what he/she thinks the specific job is worth. The model will either accept the offer or not. I just assume, again, each photographer knows there will always be a reason for a model not to accept the job.
f) If you're in New York you're probably aware that there are lots of small theater groups paying actors $50 or $60 as compensation for their participation in a play. That often includes all the rehearsal time and a run of 12 performances. There are always artists who can offer very little in terms of compensation and there are always artists for whom even a small payment is worth their time. And sometimes there are artists (and, yes, I'm gonna argue that there is plenty of GOOD talent, willing to work for very little) for whom the earnings are not the primary motivation even. Again, the justifications are numerous and specific to each individual. I think it makes for pretty good common sense.
g) For some people $20 *is* a lot of money. I recognize that fact and would don't want presume to say what is or is not a lot of money to someone.
Diff strokes for diff folks.
Photographer
Jarrell Photography
Posts: 45
Winston-Salem, North Carolina, US
PigeonFoo wrote:
Honestly, I believe the general mind-set would be "I'll take what I can get, and you never know I may land an awesome model. Otherwise, at least it was cheap."
It's probably hobby photographers who are just offering what they can afford, and therefore don't really care if they get a gorgeous professional model and are happy to have a model at all. 1
Photographer
Leonard Gee Photography
Posts: 18096
Sacramento, California, US
Some people say "I am out of money" and mean that they don't have any food and don't know how they'll get food for today's meal.
Other people say "I am out of money" and they mean the $200 million boat they want can't be bought today.
It's a matter of perspective and what it's worth to you.
Model
Arcana Ardat-Lilli
Posts: 8
Saint Louis, Missouri, US
Pfft. In my area, it's a big deal if I find a casting call that actually is offering payment. I gave up on casting calls a while ago. But I would probably take the $20 an hour if I like the photographer's port and his/her vision is something I'd want in my port as well.
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
I guess we would agree that this gesture would be fine if the model was dying to shoot with the photographer. They would do it for nothing in that case so any amount would be a bonus.
But...what is the likelihood of the type of a photographer who is offering $20 flat is going to be the kind of photographer (talent level) any model is dying to work with?
The stars aren't aligning on this one for me.
Photographer
S
Posts: 21678
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I guess we would agree that this gesture would be fine if the model was dying to shoot with the photographer. They would do it for nothing in that case so any amount would be a bonus.
But...what is the likelihood of the type of a photographer who is offering $20 flat is going to be the kind of photographer (talent level) any model is dying to work with?
The stars aren't aligning on this one for me. Why does it strike you that way?
Photographer
Final Touch Studios
Posts: 3
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Casting calls offering to pay $20 - $40/hr is nothing but Advertising /Marketing. All this does is get the model (rookie or professional) to knock at your door. Offering a "model" something verses nothing especially if the "model" has not been on any assignments in a while is a good incentive. After the "model" knocks on your door aka answers your ad then you can ( after viewing their work) choose to accept or decline. The photographer is not so concerned about skill level for the model as to how many potential clients or models answers his or her ad.
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
Sita Mae wrote:
Why does it strike you that way? I'm trying...honestly lol. I just can't see, at least with some basic assumptions I'm making, how this would benefit a model at any level.
I'm even trying to put myself in the shoes of a model with no experience and no professional images. I guess in that case I can disregard the financial aspects and say, "Ok, at least they're getting something to share with the world..." But beyond that I'm having trouble seeing the benefit...for either party really.
Is the model really going to get presentable images from the photographer? For that matter, is the photographer really going to attract the level of quality from a model that will enhance his/her portfolio?
Have I been doing this too long and have forgotten what it was like to just start out? Is that the problem? lol
Photographer
Four-Eleven Productions
Posts: 762
Fircrest, Washington, US
It's simple, really. Many models, I've found, don't even look at the TF castings...so by including a bit of cash, your casting will be viewed by much better models. By tossing in a generous number of images, I've essentially got a TF shoot on steroids.
Works for me.
Photographer
In Balance Photography
Posts: 3378
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Michael Pandolfo wrote:
....
Have I been doing this too long and have forgotten what it was like to just start out? Is that the problem? lol In a couple of works, "maybe yes"
I can remember what is was like to start out - it wasn't that long ago. Pick the most KA model on MM, and had I worked with her/him on my very first shoot, it would have been unlikely that I would have gotten materially different results.
I would have still clipped off limbs, shot two exposures off, had no idea that I needed to retouch, never mind knowing how to do it.
Add to that the pressure of shooting with a model at the top of her game when one is a beginner, and one can see that paying top rates for a top model for certain kinds of photographers and projects just doesn't make sense.
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