I'd responded to an out of town photographers ad on here for a shoot back in May(he was going to be in town end of june). He said yes, and then never got back to me. So I emailed him the other day asking if he still wanted to shoot. The next day he texts me at 4:45pm asking if I could do a shoot at 6pm. I text back asking him where and that I'd just got in from the gym so I'd need to shower. He doesn't get back to me til 5:30. He tells me at this nice hotel. I ask if it was an indoor or outdoor shoot, he ignores it.. anyways. I had dinner plans at 7:15.. So I canceled my dinner plans, and asked the photographer if we could do it later (around 7-ish) so I had time to get ready.. He agrees... So I ask him what to bring to the (lingerie shoot) and he tells me what color stuff he wants me to wear.. And then he asked me "Do you want to go grab dinner with me before the shoot", I say no... Then I asked again is this an indoor or outdoor shoot. He says "the hotel won't allow us to shoot outside, so it's going to be in my hotel room" (I know this hotel.. And unless he had, lets say a full lighting set up, which he didn't as he said he wanted to do a "natural light" shoot, you're allowed to take pictures outside). So I asked "is it ok if I bring an escort" (i was going to bring my mother with just for safety reasons) , and he said "I prefer not, I had a model bring an escort once and I found stuff stolen", I replied "Well I'm not comfortable doing a lingerie shoot, in a hotel room without an escort." and he said "Too bad, have a nice night".
Was I being unreasonable to want to bring an escort? He texted me at the last minute and asked me to go to dinner....
R A V E N D R I V E wrote: natural light doesn't mean outdoor, it means not adding light outside of whats available
the correspondence you two had - at least the stuff that was responded to - went like it was supposed to
I'm aware.. But he said "natural light", so obviously he wasn't setting up lighting, thus there is no reason why the hotel wouldn't let us take photos by the pool.
I'm aware.. But he said "natural light", so obviously he wasn't setting up lighting, thus there is no reason why the hotel wouldn't let us take photos by the pool.
his reasoning left a lot to be desired
if he wants to shoot lingerie in his hotel room at night, he should cast for that. if he secretly wants to shoot something else, he should cast for that instead.
making up details and reasons on the fly isn't the way to do it
a lot of people forget to change the default voicemail,in which case you'd never know who their number provider was
not vouching for the guy, he should have told you all these details from the beginning
it wasn't a real phone number... when I called it, it asked your name, then says "we'll try to contact the google voice costumer" and then started ringing.. I know anyone can make fake google voice mail accounts online for free, because one of my friends recently was telling me about how she uses them to fake her job application reference numbers.. So to me the google voice account was kind of like a "hrrmm"...
Samantha Scarlette wrote: I'd responded to an out of town photographers ad on here for a shoot back in May(he was going to be in town end of june). He said yes, and then never got back to me. So I emailed him the other day asking if he still wanted to shoot. The next day he texts me at 4:45pm asking if I could do a shoot at 6pm.
At this point, my alarm bells would be ringing loudly.
Samantha Scarlette wrote: I text back asking him where and that I'd just got in from the gym so I'd need to shower. He doesn't get back to me til 5:30.
At this point, I would have passed. I'm not a spur-of-the-moment kinda guy.
Samantha Scarlette wrote: He tells me at this nice hotel. I ask if it was an indoor or outdoor shoot, he ignores it.. anyways. I had dinner plans at 7:15.. So I canceled my dinner plans, and asked the photographer if we could do it later (around 7-ish) so I had time to get ready.. He agrees... So I ask him what to bring to the (lingerie shoot) and he tells me what color stuff he wants me to wear.. And then he asked me "Do you want to go grab dinner with me before the shoot", I say no...
Yeah, that all sounds pervy to me.
Bottom line: I would have lost interest a lot earlier than you did. I also miss the part where you checked this guy's references (before showing up with lingerie to his hotel room).
Samantha Scarlette wrote: I'd responded to an out of town photographers ad on here for a shoot back in May(he was going to be in town end of june). He said yes, and then never got back to me. So I emailed him the other day asking if he still wanted to shoot. The next day he texts me at 4:45pm asking if I could do a shoot at 6pm. I text back asking him where and that I'd just got in from the gym so I'd need to shower. He doesn't get back to me til 5:30. He tells me at this nice hotel. I ask if it was an indoor or outdoor shoot, he ignores it.. anyways. I had dinner plans at 7:15.. So I canceled my dinner plans, and asked the photographer if we could do it later (around 7-ish) so I had time to get ready.. He agrees... So I ask him what to bring to the (lingerie shoot) and he tells me what color stuff he wants me to wear.. And then he asked me "Do you want to go grab dinner with me before the shoot", I say no... Then I asked again is this an indoor or outdoor shoot. He says "the hotel won't allow us to shoot outside, so it's going to be in my hotel room" (I know this hotel.. And unless he had, lets say a full lighting set up, which he didn't as he said he wanted to do a "natural light" shoot, you're allowed to take pictures outside). So I asked "is it ok if I bring an escort" (i was going to bring my mother with just for safety reasons) , and he said "I prefer not, I had a model bring an escort once and I found stuff stolen", I replied "Well I'm not comfortable doing a lingerie shoot, in a hotel room without an escort." and he said "Too bad, have a nice night".
Was I being unreasonable to want to bring an escort? He texted me at the last minute and asked me to go to dinner....
You were not unreasonable at all! There are so many red flags that I would be creeped out by all this if I were a model.
Well, I've shot several times with photographers in hotel rooms and never had trouble - but I don't think this is related to a particular location's choice, it's just a matter of 1. checking as many references as you can and 2. using common sense.
Anyway, hotel rooms aren't less safe than a studio, if you think that you need to leave your ID at the reception and the receptionists know in which room you are and who booked the room: he would have been a fool to molest you in any way with people knowing he was there with you, right?
And inviting a model to dinner isn't a red flag to me: sometimes, at the end of a shooting or while taking a break, I go for a pizza or some food with the photographer and the staff, if involved.
It really depends on how he asked you for it.
To me, the only red flag in this story is the last-minute request: I wouldn't model for someone asking me to shoot just few hours before, I prefer to have everything planned at last the day before!
Samantha Scarlette wrote: I'd responded to an out of town photographers ad on here for a shoot back in May(he was going to be in town end of june). He said yes, and then never got back to me. So I emailed him the other day asking if he still wanted to shoot. The next day he texts me at 4:45pm asking if I could do a shoot at 6pm.
At this point, my alarm bells would be ringing loudly.
Samantha Scarlette wrote: I text back asking him where and that I'd just got in from the gym so I'd need to shower. He doesn't get back to me til 5:30.
At this point, I would have passed. I'm not a spur-of-the-moment kinda guy.
Yeah, that all sounds pervy to me.
Bottom line: I would have lost interest a lot earlier than you did. I also miss the part where you checked this guy's references (before showing up with lingerie to his hotel room).
On his profile he had up photos he'd done of famous people, some for magazines.. I'd looked up on the magazines web sites and what not to see if in fact he'd done them, and that all checked out. He didn't have any MM models listed for reference though on his page.
Broken Doll wrote: Well, I've shot several times with photographers in hotel rooms and never had trouble - but I don't think this is related to a particular location's choice, it's just a matter of 1. checking as many references as you can and 2. using common sense.
Anyway, hotel rooms aren't less safe than a studio, if you think that you need to leave your ID at the reception and the receptionists know in which room you are and who booked the room: he would have been a fool to molest you in any way with people knowing he was there with you, right?
And inviting a model to dinner isn't a red flag to me: sometimes, at the end of a shooting or while taking a break, I go for a pizza or some food with the photographer and the staff, if involved.
It really depends on how he asked you for it.
To me, the only red flag in this story is the last-minute request: I wouldn't model for someone asking me to shoot just few hours before, I prefer to have everything planned at last the day before!
and my main phone number is a google voice number
nobody that currently knows me also knows my "real" phone number, on my sim card
when it goes to voicemail, it definitely doesn't say "the google voice subscriber" its something I recorded
so I wouldn't think you could make conclusion just from the fact its google voice, most of the time you will never know
Samantha Scarlette wrote: it wasn't a real phone number... when I called it, it asked your name, then says "we'll try to contact the google voice costumer" and then started ringing.. I know anyone can make fake google voice mail accounts online for free, because one of my friends recently was telling me about how she uses them to fake her job application reference numbers.. So to me the google voice account was kind of like a "hrrmm"...
I use Google Voice as my business number because it rings my cell, home and office phones simultaneously. Maybe the photographer just likes the convenience that Google Voice provides?
First of all, paragraphs are your friend. Your post was difficult to read.
Second, I think this whole situation was poorly handled all around. While I sometimes plan casual shoots, those are only with photographers who are good friends. You clearly did not know this photographer, so you should have planned the shoot in a more thorough manner.
You did not have a time set, you just kept going back and forth. You did not have the general idea set, and you certainly didn't communicate your limitations with each other until both of you had wasted a lot of time and messages.
Broken Doll wrote: Well, I've shot several times with photographers in hotel rooms and never had trouble - but I don't think this is related to a particular location's choice, it's just a matter of 1. checking as many references as you can and 2. using common sense.
Anyway, hotel rooms aren't less safe than a studio, if you think that you need to leave your ID at the reception and the receptionists know in which room you are and who booked the room: he would have been a fool to molest you in any way with people knowing he was there with you, right?
And inviting a model to dinner isn't a red flag to me: sometimes, at the end of a shooting or while taking a break, I go for a pizza or some food with the photographer and the staff, if involved.
It really depends on how he asked you for it.
To me, the only red flag in this story is the last-minute request: I wouldn't model for someone asking me to shoot just few hours before, I prefer to have everything planned at last the day before!
I've photographed models in hotel rooms too. It's not so much that any one of these "red flags" means run the other way ... it's the combination of so many that bother me. There are so many things I do differently from this photographer! I do not try to pull a shoot together last minute like that, even when traveling. I have communication with models over the phone before I will even book a shoot. Going for a bite to eat is not uncommon, but I do that in advance if I can get the chance to meet with the model. I have no problem with a model bringing someone if they are not comfortable. Due to my methods, I rarely have any one flake on me nor have I had problems with any of the invited guests that the model and I have agreed to invite to the shoot. Communication is key!
Samantha Scarlette wrote: On his profile he had up photos he'd done of famous people, some for magazines.. I'd looked up on the magazines web sites and what not to see if in fact he'd done them, and that all checked out. He didn't have any MM models listed for reference though on his page.
Besides the phone situation, this is another major red flag! Why would you even agree to shoot with someone like this in the first place? Smells like a fake account!
I keep my llamaing life and my professional life separate. Therefore, for anything relating to llamaing, I give out my Google Voice number. It comes straight to my phone and I don't think anyone has to give their name to call me... Also, I'm almost positive that it just sounds like normal voicemail.
It's just me; I'm a geezer and all. I know that young folks these days are fine with arrangements made minutes beforehand.
But I'm not.
I, too, would have wanted an escort for the simple reason that decades of experience has taught me that arrangements made at the last minute are often poorly planned, rarely professionally executed, and easily gang aglee. All of which tells me that a safety escort (and especially an extra pair of hands to wrestle gear/wardrobe around quickly in the event it needs moved from the left side to the right -- or a speedy escape) is likely to be crucial.
I've done lingerie shoots in hotels. Thats not the problem. The problem is that you didn't check references so you didn't even know if you can trust him period.. So you would bring your mom to a shoot with some guy you're not too sure about? That's terrible. If I didnt feel safe I wouldn't risk someone elses safety also. You just don't go!!!
I'm missing something ... was this a "paid" gig for the model?
I would never expect to be able to hire a model at the last minute, and for her to come to my hotel room without first having spoken on the phone. I don't know anything about "google" phone answering service, but I'm an old fashion guy who believes in giving out my cell phone number. None of it sounds like the way I would handle setting up a photo shoot! It sounds more like how to book a prostitute to me. So much lack of communication and evasiveness!
Patrick Walberg wrote: I'm missing something ... was this a "paid" gig for the model?
I would never expect to be able to hire a model at the last minute, and for her to come to my hotel room without first having spoken on the phone. I don't know anything about "google" phone answering service, but I'm an old fashion guy who believes in giving out my cell phone number. None of it sounds like the way I would handle setting up a photo shoot! It sounds more like how to book a prostitute to me. So much lack of communication and evasiveness!
google voice can be seamlessly integrated into your cell phone
but yes the text was more like how to book a prostitute, it could have been handled more clearly
liindsay ann wrote: I've done lingerie shoots in hotels. Thats not the problem. The problem is that you didn't check references so you didn't even know if you can trust him period.. So you would bring your mom to a shoot with some guy you're not too sure about? That's terrible. If I didnt feel safe I wouldn't risk someone elses safety also. You just don't go!!!
DAN CRUIKSHANK
Posts: 1,643
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Sounds like a shit show to me... Poor communication. Be smart. Check references. Work safe. If you are bringing an escort tell the photographer as soon as you start discussing the possibilities of a shoot.
liindsay ann wrote: I've done lingerie shoots in hotels. Thats not the problem. The problem is that you didn't check references so you didn't even know if you can trust him period.. So you would bring your mom to a shoot with some guy you're not too sure about? That's terrible. If I didnt feel safe I wouldn't risk someone elses safety also. You just don't go!!!
Heck, I've shot bondage in hotels. I'm doing fine.
He may have had a shoot planned and the model cancelled and now he is looking for a replacement.
I have a Skype number that I make free call with. If you call it back I wont know. The number is different.
Asking you to dinner may seems like a date since that happens on dates. But I go to dinner or lunch with models and my team all the time. We all need to eat.
You weren't being unreasonable, it's your right to demand an escort. That being said, he wasn't being unreasonable either, I don't blame him for not wanting to work with you based on the fact that you wanted an escort present.
In the particular situation you describe the photographer was acting a bit questionable, and I think it probably would have been best to just decline the shoot instead of insisting on an escort.
I've done 10+ hotel shoots, never an escort, never a problem. Check references, do your homework, no escort should be needed. If you get a bad feeling about a person, just cancel the shoot, it's never worth risking your safety or the safety of whoever you want to bring as an escort.
Samantha Scarlette wrote: I'd responded to an out of town photographers ad on here for a shoot back in May(he was going to be in town end of june). He said yes, and then never got back to me. So I emailed him the other day asking if he still wanted to shoot. The next day he texts me at 4:45pm asking if I could do a shoot at 6pm. I text back asking him where and that I'd just got in from the gym so I'd need to shower. He doesn't get back to me til 5:30. He tells me at this nice hotel. I ask if it was an indoor or outdoor shoot, he ignores it.. anyways. I had dinner plans at 7:15.. So I canceled my dinner plans, and asked the photographer if we could do it later (around 7-ish) so I had time to get ready.. He agrees... So I ask him what to bring to the (lingerie shoot) and he tells me what color stuff he wants me to wear.. And then he asked me "Do you want to go grab dinner with me before the shoot", I say no... Then I asked again is this an indoor or outdoor shoot. He says "the hotel won't allow us to shoot outside, so it's going to be in my hotel room" (I know this hotel.. And unless he had, lets say a full lighting set up, which he didn't as he said he wanted to do a "natural light" shoot, you're allowed to take pictures outside). So I asked "is it ok if I bring an escort" (i was going to bring my mother with just for safety reasons) , and he said "I prefer not, I had a model bring an escort once and I found stuff stolen", I replied "Well I'm not comfortable doing a lingerie shoot, in a hotel room without an escort." and he said "Too bad, have a nice night".
Was I being unreasonable to want to bring an escort? He texted me at the last minute and asked me to go to dinner....
You have nothing more then to rely on your gut instinct, in this case it seems like you did the best thing possible.
Laura UnBound
Posts: 24,695
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Of all the reasons to take an escort, you dont take an escort to keep you SAFE, If the guy is dangerous, then BOTH of you are in danger and you were going to put your MOM in harms way? Not a good idea. I would never take my mother into a situation that I thought one of us could be injured in.
The entirety of the shoot was poorly communicated by both of you. When you've got questions, put them all out there first thing. Dont get through everything else and then throw in a question thats probably going to throw a wrench in the whole plan (escorts are a big one, that should be something you say first thing)
Shooting in hotels does not a creepy photographer make, and if his ideas didn't fit with a swimming pool in the background, then theres no reason he would want to shoot at the pool. You'd also have to deal with making sure some random people weren't hanging around in the back of all your shots. Onlookers are annoying. He said he wanted to shoot lingerie? Do you usually go swimming in your lacey nightie? No? then why would you shoot that look at a pool, rather than a bedroom?
MelissaAnn wrote: You weren't being unreasonable, it's your right to demand an escort. That being said, he wasn't being unreasonable either, I don't blame him for not wanting to work with you based on the fact that you wanted an escort present.
In the particular situation you describe the photographer was acting a bit questionable, and I think it probably would have been best to just decline the shoot instead of insisting on an escort.
I've done 10+ hotel shoots, never an escort, never a problem. Check references, do your homework, no escort should be needed. If you get a bad feeling about a person, just cancel the shoot, it's never worth risking your safety or the safety of whoever you want to bring as an escort.
+1
I haven't done 10 hotel shoots, but close enough.
No one did anything wrong, the shoot just didn't happen.
I would have cancelled when he didn't text you back until 530. I like to plan things ahead of time.
I am going to give you some advice based on my experiences.
1. If you intend to bring an escort, you should inform the photographer of this when communications begin.
2. I would have never gotten as far as you did because I do not communicate like that. All the back and forth took way too long. If he wanted to book a last minute shoot, a phone call was probably in order to save you both time.
3. Having done #2 (or been able to plan more in advance) all the nonsense about the pool and such would have never happened. You would have hopefully known the concept and what to bring.
4. Asking you to dinner might have been a nice thing. It also might have been an awkward situation. There are photographers who have taken me for meals before, during breaks for, and after shoots. However, these were generally people who I knew to some degree, or we had been talking for quite a while and I felt comfortable. In general, I politely decline such requests, but there are exceptions.
I think the root of the problem here was that the shoot was not planned out in advance although it seems it could have been since he mentioned visiting back in May. I usually give things like this a week. If I have no follow up, I assume they are probably not that interested in shooting. If they come back to me with a couple days notice (at least), sometimes I can still work something out, but never the day of the shoot. That is just too short notice. I am sure I might have exceptions, but those would still be with someone I had spoken to before and knew I really wanted to work with.
I think it was probably for the best that this shoot did not happen, but this could also just have been a case of poor communication. It happens. No big deal.
Curious: Was the offer for dinner possibly just based on your saying how you'd just had to cancel dinner plans (ie trying to compensate).
At any rate you shouldn't do a shoot you're uncomfortable with by bringing an escort (as some kind of mitigation). You just shouldn't do the project.
Laura UnBound wrote: Of all the reasons to take an escort, you dont take an escort to keep you SAFE, If the guy is dangerous, then BOTH of you are in danger and you were going to put your MOM in harms way? Not a good idea. I would never take my mother into a situation that I thought one of us could be injured in.
The entirety of the shoot was poorly communicated by both of you. When you've got questions, put them all out there first thing. Dont get through everything else and then throw in a question thats probably going to throw a wrench in the whole plan (escorts are a big one, that should be something you say first thing)
Shooting in hotels does not a creepy photographer make, and if his ideas didn't fit with a swimming pool in the background, then theres no reason he would want to shoot at the pool. You'd also have to deal with making sure some random people weren't hanging around in the back of all your shots. Onlookers are annoying. He said he wanted to shoot lingerie? Do you usually go swimming in your lacey nightie? No? then why would you shoot that look at a pool, rather than a bedroom?
BOOM! +1
Horrid reference checking, poor communication all the way around.
R A V E N D R I V E wrote: natural light doesn't mean outdoor, it means not adding light outside of whats available
the correspondence you two had - at least the stuff that was responded to - went like it was supposed to
Um... no. Natural light IS the light from, well Nature, i.e. outdoor (or daylight coming through a window or skylight when indoors).
Using whatever is available including house lights, table lamps, etc. is not natural light, thats "available light".
I think you should have avoided this shoot to begin with. The guy screamed of being a bad GWC. Don't rush to do a shoot just for the sake of doing it. The power of using the word "no" is an amazing tool.
Isaiah Brink
Posts: 1,783
Salisbury, North Carolina, US
Well, you seemed to be very reasonable with regards to the time of the shoot, but as far as the escort, no. Honestly, if you do not feel safe on the shoot, do not go. No escort is going to keep you that safe. If you don't feel safe, or need a "security blanket" of sorts, it's going to show in the images. I'm not saying don't go with your gut instincts, so, if you don't feel safe, or get a bad feeling, don't go, cancel. Always be careful, I hate it when I hear legit stories of models being hurt in some way on shoots. So, drop the escort, go or don't go depending on if you feel safe or not.
Plain and simple, IMO, no you were't being unreasonable in telling him you were bringing an escort along if he wanted to shoot. You always have that right. It's up to him if he accepts or not.
Basically you were not happy with his level of communication and found a few things he said suspicious, so the shoot didn't happen. I think that's fine. That's the way it's supposed to work.
The escort thing was incidental. You should have said no based on the above info and not mentioned an escort at all (imo).
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