I read the contest rules, including any fine print. Or I don't enter contests.

The other option is to require agreements before hand or watermarking the bejezzus on the image. That's the way it works.

+1

This is a bit like a plaintiff going to court, presenting his complaint, and asking the judge to render an opinion. Any fair judge would give the defendant his day in court.

I will continue in first person...
Yes he also shot the image. But i made clear i will not give him the work for free as the image is for the contest for the prize, if he wishes he can buy my work, and i said i hope he understands that to witch he answered i understand and agree...

I dont know how others see it, but i would never translate it into ok now i just copy the low res pic from the site and use that...
Of course where i live the copyright belongs to the person who shot the image. But making a contest saying there only be one winner, paying one person, and using other persons work for free against her will without asking permission and getting it is called fraud and people who want to keep their good name and business going just dont do things like that its cheap and can be punishable by law(not easy to get there but can be done) but even before that nobody really would want to work with such a person.

Anyway i do now really understand why people use watermarks, cos i understand the copyright holder is right and everyone else who worked on the work too and got cheated is a sorry loser...

I learned my lesson for the future, thanks for the explenations, i just was and i am still yet a little bit shocked that somebody would even cheat out a breakfast, cos 25$ for a image is just little over 1  tasty meal cost in Latvia.
To the photographer i just want to say- hey the breakfast is on me- buen appetit dont choke on it  you must really been hungry to risk for it the relationship with people .

I suspect it's the same here too in North America. Although the photographer owns the photograph, if your statements are true, then he doesn't own the work you have performed. Your work was for a specific purpose only and you had agreed with the photographer that other uses were not allowed. According to your posts, you have documentation that outlines your understanding. Thus, the "rules of engagement" should be clear to both parties.

Even though you might be legally correct, the costs and challenges with enforcing your rights might be prohibitive.

Another easier path might be to contact a moderator, clearly and succinctly outline the facts, and allow the moderator to take the appropriate actions.

Good luck.

I have no interest in making something up.At least after starting this the photographer gave me credit for the work where he used it.Something is always better then nothing.

And thanks for your comment, its good to know that i could do something about this and that i own the rights on my work even without a watermark especially when the photographer agreed and understood that i will not give my work to him without getting paid.

About contacting mods, the image wasnt used here in his portfolio, but was only stolen from here and used elsewhere,i think then its just outside the mods reach, here as far i can see he has done nothing wrong.

I encourage you to contact the mods anyway. If the some part of the disagreement involved MM, then they might have an active interest. The worst that can happen is that they decline to become involved.

Wel why would i want to use a image that didnt won the contest, so wasnt good enough for the photographer who had the main idea of the image and aperrantly i didnt fulfill his idea, so that doesent make me look good at all, no matter if other people said the work was incredible.
But if it was good enough to use it for his portfolio then how can my work be worth nothing and other retoucher work who did the same series, but one retoucher did get paid for it...

Anyways me and the photographer have an agreement and that is all that matters to me.

i know how u feel, the image that i retouched also appear in his other port. but for me, i just moved on so next time i dont have to feel obligated to give the photographer the higher resolution image, unless they want to pay.

See PM, i just want to say that sometimes even for small things its good to stand up for yourself, sometimes is moving on not enough, cos the people who cheated you,feel more safer every time when someone just moves on and then theyre really believe its ok, but its not!Maybe not this time, but next time stand up for yourself.

Quit whining guys. you already got your solution. Next time watermark your images just like istock photo does.

Pari Retouch wrote:
Maybe I sound too odd here but I think that when a photographer send us the image for portfolio or practice, it is because they trust. We don't find more people generous enough to give away quality raws for retouchers to practice or portfolio use. IMO if we are a bit generous to people it really helps making good future work relationships, Personally I am very grateful to people sending me quality shots that I feel worth working on and I have no problem sending the tiff.
Just a thought, I'm not willing to debate about it.

I very much agree with you Pari.


"These MM contests are a way to get a lot of retouching done at very low cost in the guise of a "contest".
Caveat Emptor. "


@Ken Sounds like a complaint to me, no one is forcing you to work on the images or participate on the contest in the first place. This is MM (this is sparta voice) as much as it is a site where you can get jobs, its also a site where individuals can help each others grow (mutual benefit)
If editing a picture from a contest doesn't benefit you. Simply dont!
Its comments like these that make photographers stop posting pictures for other retouchers to use.

ps: I'm a photographer/retoucher and am speaking from a retouchers point of view.

Pari Retouch wrote:
Maybe I sound too odd here but I think that when a photographer send us the image for portfolio or practice, it is because they trust. We don't find more people generous enough to give away quality raws for retouchers to practice or portfolio use. IMO if we are a bit generous to people it really helps making good future work relationships, Personally I am very grateful to people sending me quality shots that I feel worth working on and I have no problem sending the tiff.
Just a thought, I'm not willing to debate about it.

Did you read this thread at all?
You did lose the subject.

I have one question,how would you benefit from a image that you retouched only for the purpose to get the prize and not for portfolio use, but that lost a contest and photographer did post it somewhere without crediting you and you even dont know it?

P.S. I have participated in other contests that where just for portfolio use in every single one i sent the high res,cos i knew i would definetly use the image for my port so why shouldnt i let the photographer use it to.Still it is rare that a work relationship builds up.Cos in reality the photographers do expect that you give them the high res, and that is not generosity its work for trade and sometimes theyre post the image even in sites where theyre can get money for it.

not necessary, i'd say do something like what istock photos have.. you can write anything in low opacity instead of branding the photo.

You might want to read your comment again. Its makes little sense.
Here is why:

Your standards are YOUR standards. Its only important that you reach them, not others, especially in light of this arrangement and premise.

If he found it good enough to post in his portfolio, then how did it NOT meet his standards ?

Bottom Line: She won.

Yes...she may have. But, I wonder how many other photographers feel like me right now. Not all that favorable about working with her.

Who knows, I could be perusing that photographer's port and run into her work and want to know who did it.

Which is better, having an image out there that someone might see, or starting a thread like this.

I don't know....I could be wrong.

Why, because she defends her rights? You would prefer to work with a pushover?

Not me, I will only work with those that I respect.

But that's the point. When using contests, you can't have retouchers do your work for free. If you want that image in your portfolio, you have to work with the retoucher to allow for such usage. Note:

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=545999

Go back and read through this thread carefully. And then reread the quote above.

Given that her image should never have been out there in a photographer's portfolio, this question is irrelevant. Not only that, her image wasn't watermarked. So you would never find her image in a photog's portfolio (unless s/he treated her fairly) and you would never know.

Why place blame or cast a disparaging glance at the one who was taken advantage of? It's a rhetorical question. I am not expecting nor wanting an answer.

And I suspect we're alike in that that we don't always roll over when someone takes advantage of us. I expect no less from a retoucher.

At least others know that she does good work, that she takes pride in and defends her work, and that she plays fair.

Please take time to read MM rules and note that i didnt work with the photographer, that i didnt work for the photographer, but i participated in a contest, which did not give use rights to my work for the photographer.And i am not claiming any rights to his work, just to my part.

I do respect that he gave the possibility to work on his images for retouchers in MM.

But there is also  the part, that i shoved interest in participating, that i put time and effort into the work, that i showed him for free the idea of how the image could look like and he got an idea of what the participating retouchers are capable off without spending hours of search somewhere else and get asked to pay for the work on a test image.

Its simple he did add his part, i did ad mine. If he wanted so badly to use the image with my retouch he had every chance to negotiate an outcome which could benefit us both.But instead he made a digital copy of my work, to which he had no right and posted it in his portfolio  in another site with not even giving credit. I cant think of a different name for his action as stealing.

My respect for other people goes as far as theyre respecting me im not a rug, that doesent say anything and is lying still when people are stepping on it.

And i certainly do not want recognition of my work in such a persons portfolio who in the end had no other arguments as calling me names.

And if in the end photographers who think he had every right to do so as he did will not be looking my way when searching to hire a retoucher, im perfectly happy with it.Cos i don't want to work with people when there is no respect on both sides,such an cooperation couldn't end well and would be a waste of time.

End of story