<edit> For those who read the initial post and then respond, this was intended as tongue-in-cheek - after two new flake threads appeared, and another that was over a year old was revived, in one week. Flakes really haven't been much of a problem for me. <end edit>
What if they planned a photo shoot and nobody came?
Did anybody flake?
Who got flaked on? Neither? Both?
Based on all the flake threads, I'll bet it happens HUNDREDS of times every day... yet this serious problem facing the MM industry has NEVER been raised - much less studied to death.
Certainly it warrants our thoughtful consideration - and at least a study or two.
I think if they only allow experienced models onto the website who only have professional photos from shoots (not cellphone shots and "my friend took this with her iphone" shots), the problem will drop by 75.4%. The ones who flake are more than likely the ones who don't take modeling seriously and don't realize just how much time and effort photographers put into their work.
I think if nobody showed up they still all flaked. It's like the tree falling in the woods and nobody is there to hear it, does it still fall? Of course.
Maybe there should be a requirement of all new MM models to shoot with an approved MM photographer. And a new photographer to shoot with an approved MM model. OK, maybe this is far fetched, but just throwing it out there for sh*ts and giggles.
Michael Spring
Posts: 174
London, England, United Kingdom
Venessa M Baez wrote: I think if they only allow experienced models onto the website who only have professional photos from shoots (not cellphone shots and "my friend took this with her iphone" shots), the problem will drop by 75.4%. The ones who flake are more than likely the ones who don't take modeling seriously and don't realize just how much time and effort photographers put into their work.
Not really, new models are as reliable as more experienced ones who can fill their portfolios with decent images!!! Anyway, if you think models flake just because they have cell phone images in their portfolio just avoid those models and you will never get another flake, ever!! I bet you that won't work. :-))))
Michael Spring wrote: Not really, new models are as reliable as more experienced ones who can fill their portfolios with decent images!!! Anyway, if you think models flake just because they have cell phone images in their portfolio just avoid those models and you will never get another flake, ever!! I bet you that won't work. :-))))
+1
Sad to say but aint that the truth? A couple years ago a seemingly professional model contacted me to do a shoot. To her credit, she was a prior Miss India contestant winner and had been published several times so you would think of all models, she would be the last to flake. The day of our shoot, her car supposedly brakes down and though she reads messages I sent her, she doesn't respond.
That was a trade shoot which in my experiance, the models flake on me more than half the time. Matter of fact, I had one flake on me just yesterday! Paid shoots on the other hand, I have yet to have a single model flake on me...
Venessa M Baez wrote: I think if they only allow experienced models onto the website who only have professional photos from shoots (not cellphone shots and "my friend took this with her iphone" shots), the problem will drop by 75.4%. The ones who flake are more than likely the ones who don't take modeling seriously and don't realize just how much time and effort photographers put into their work.
I actually started 4 years ago with no previous experience.
Everything that I have in my port was from hard work, learning and working with people off of MM.
Granted, I didn't have any cell phone pictures in my port, but you can't automatically judge someone based on that when you don't know them.
NicoleNudes wrote: Granted, I didn't have any cell phone pictures in my port, but you can't automatically judge someone based on that when you don't know them.
What about the ones who expect to be paid, when they have 0 experience?
Maybe it's just my desire to give every one a couple of chances as shit generally does happen in life-babies get sick, cars do break down, people do die, ect, but if it becomes obsessive and obvious that the reason isn't a reason and is an excuse it becomes just that, an excuse.
I still give people three chances before I go on to other people. If you cant work right now just tell me and I'll move on. If your not interested after all tell me and I'll move on. I understand that people can change their minds.
LA StarShooter
Posts: 1,036
Beverly Hills, California, US
In Los Angeles I think models have a very high attendance rate for shoots if compared to other places in the U.S. Partly, it is the culture of the entertainment industry, movies and television in particular, where hundreds often turn up for castings in things that will never be seen, and hope, here, drives new people forward to try and build toward breaking out as a star. If they come to Los Angeles, it is be successful and so most models are driven by the idea of doing well. So, it is not that common, I think for models not to show up here.
Also beautiful people here trend toward acting/modelling. My favourite people to shoot are actors who also work as models. Their posing and expressions are often awesome and they take shoots really seriously.
I have had some heartache over no-shows with assistants, which models have told me is not uncommon here.
I hate to admit it (since nobody seemed to notice), but I intended this thread to be tongue-in-cheek – after seeing three new flake threads appear - and another one revived from last year - in a 36-hour period. I really haven’t had much of a problem with flakes, but I know there are some here who have.
Since there have been some thoughtful responses, let’s just keep it going in that direction.
While I have my doubts that a “radical” outside-the-box solution would fly, maybe a seed of a solution will materialize here somehow.
Venessa M Baez wrote: I think if they only allow experienced llamas onto the website who only have professional photos from shoots (not cellphone shots and "my friend took this with her iphone" shots), the problem will drop by 75.4%. The ones who flake are more than likely the ones who don't take llamaing seriously and don't realize just how much time and effort photographers put into their work.
I know several good llamas who started on MM with no experience and next to nothing in their ports - so I would hate to see MM become an exclusive club where only the experienced need apply.
Maybe a “probationary” level of membership (it wouldn’t even have to show on the member’s profile) for those who don’t meet the criteria as strictly interpreted. The question is, would that address the issue, or would it just encourage the gatekeepers to approve some memberships they wouldn’t otherwise approve?
What would be the criteria for escaping probation?
Maybe a couple of new Lists for experienced and reliable llamas and photographers (who don’t necessarily want to spend a lot of time mentoring) would be a better way to go than probation.
Or would that just be a substitute for members doing their own due diligence?
BlueMoonPics wrote: Maybe there should be a requirement of all new MM llamas to shoot with an approved MM photographer. And a new photographer to shoot with an approved MM llama. OK, maybe this is far fetched, but just throwing it out there for sh*ts and giggles.
This has a certain appeal as well. Questions are:
Who would approve photographers and llamas, and what would be the criteria for approval?
What would be the ratio of new to approved llamas and photographers – and would those who are approved spend so much time shooting with newbies that they don’t have any time to shoot anything else?
I’ve heard that there MM meetup groups in some cities. Don’t know whether that’s true or not. If so, are they sanctioned/overseen by MM in any way?
MM meetups might be a way for llamas and photographers to gather in a semi-social setting and decide with whom they would (or would not) like to work with.
Or maybe just monthly get-togethers where serious newbies could meet with a 1-2 experienced MM photographers and llamas, learn a bit about how MM works, site customs and etiquette and how to use MM, and get their questions answered.
I’ve seen some suggestions that MM just start a feedback system, a la eBay. I don’t believe that’s the answer. That would just allow some to vouch for their friends and others to retaliate against others for real or perceived wrongs.
After reading LA Star Shooter’s post, maybe we should all just move to LA. lol
What if, we both turn up, but she suggests we flake, get high and have sex instead? Is it unprofessional of me to stop shooting at that point? Would that count as a flake?
Rollo David Snook wrote: What if, we both turn up, but she suggests we flake, get high and have sex instead? Is it unprofessional of me to stop shooting at that point? Would that count as a flake?
If your both there how would it be a flake?
Get a grip man.
Rollo David Snook wrote: What if, we both turn up, but she suggests we flake, get high and have sex instead? Is it unprofessional of me to stop shooting at that point? Would that count as a flake?
Borgia wrote: If your both there how would it be a flake?
Get a grip man.
Sounds to me more like a change in the shoot plan.
i planned a shoot in brisbane involving an mua and 10 models, one arrived ill but she did arrive, the mua arrived also, the other 8 models were no show no calls, i learned a valuable lesson though, never book in brisbane australia ever again.
Read the thread. This was posted as tongue-in-cheek after two new flake threads were started, and another that was over a year old was revived, in a one-week period.
That was a trade shoot which in my experiance, the models flake on me more than half the time. Matter of fact, I had one flake on me just yesterday! Paid shoots on the other hand, I have yet to have a single model flake on me...[/quote wrote:
That sounds about right. I did a shoot which I invited over 12 paid models and 12 TF models with makeup, hair, and wardrobe provided 10 of the tf models flaked and with most I saw the signs. All the paid models showed up...ON TIME.
The photos didn't make me any money but went toward building a portfolio. But even if paid a model will still flake, but the number of flakes drop.
Camerosity wrote: What if they planned a photo shoot and nobody came?
Did anybody flake?
Who got flaked on? Neither? Both?
Based on all the flake threads, I'll bet it happens HUNDREDS of times every day... yet this serious problem facing the MM industry has NEVER been raised - much less studied to death.
Certainly it warrants our thoughtful consideration - and at least a study or two.
In my opinion, "all the flake threads" DO raise the question and study it to death. Are you looking for IB or some other entity (Congress maybe? They don't seem to actually be doing anything else) to fund a major study? If so, why--what possible good would it do?
EDIT: Ah! Tongue in cheek. That makes more sense.
Trouble with tongue in cheek is that it's often seen as hoof in mouth.
The flake issue is a personal issue within the model . Experience has nothing to do with it. The important thing here is they waste our time and time cannot be recovered thus being wasted.
flaking is bad enough, but not communicating is what pisses the f*&# outta me.
all i can think of is that a lot of models (and yes photographers too) lack the maturity and basic moral character to notify the photographer the moment they realize they can't make it. all they would have to do is sincerely apologize, offer to make it up to the photographer, and then be sure to follow through on that promise.
oh, and that is assuming that they can't make the shoot for a legitimate, UNFORESEEN reason. if a model calls 5 minutes before the shoot and says "ummm, i was partying until 4am last night so i was thinking like how is next tuesday for you?" - kick 'em to the curb. they're hopeless.
would a simple phone conversation clear it all up?? No texts, no emails but an actual phone conversation to confirm and if your going to be late, use some common sense and call ahead and let the parties know your running behind schedule ..
I know, this is asking too much!!!
Herman Surkis
Posts: 6,230
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Camerosity wrote: <edit> For those who read the initial post and then respond, this was intended as tongue-in-cheek - after two new flake threads appeared, and another that was over a year old was revived, in one week. Flakes really haven't been much of a problem for me. <end edit>
What if they planned a photo shoot and nobody <NOBODY> came?
Did anybody flake?
Who got flaked on? Neither? Both?
The answers are why it is usually a waste of time to start a 'tongue in cheek' thread. Hardly anybody gets it.
But when they do, it becomes a hysterically funny thread.
Sometimes.
Camerosity wrote: <edit> For those who read the initial post and then respond, this was intended as tongue-in-cheek - after two new flake threads appeared, and another that was over a year old was revived, in one week. Flakes really haven't been much of a problem for me. <end edit>
What if they planned a photo shoot and nobody came?
Did anybody flake?
Who got flaked on? Neither? Both?
Herman Surkis wrote: The answers are why it is usually a waste of time to start a 'tongue in cheek' thread. Hardly anybody gets it.
But when they do, it becomes a hysterically funny thread.
Sometimes.
Yeah, it didn't take long for me to figure that out, Herman. I thought it had died a natural death, but someone brought it back.
I kinda wish the mods would just shut it down and put it out of its misery. There is no shortage of flake threads.
Venessa M Baez wrote: I think if they only allow experienced models onto the website who only have professional photos from shoots (not cellphone shots and "my friend took this with her iphone" shots), the problem will drop by 75.4%. The ones who flake are more than likely the ones who don't take modeling seriously and don't realize just how much time and effort photographers put into their work.
Photographers flake too. Some of them are professional ones too.
I think no matter what, nothing will stop some people from flaking. Just like "friends" stand up other "friends." People on here and else where will do the same.
I don't care if someone contacts me an hour before as long as they contact me to cancel. Some people for whatever reason have such little respect for others and their money/time that they can't pick up a phone.
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