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Model
Koryn
Posts: 34,584
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Wynd Mulysa wrote:
like getting hired for jobs i used to get hired for?  eek.

After I hit about 27-28, I stopped getting as many offers for erotica-type work, and the offers I did get were paying less than they had paid in previous years.

At that point, I stopped doing that type of work. I continued to do art nudes, some glamour and light fetish content.

The type of work you get offered will change as you age, and it is frustrating, but it's just how it is.

I also started getting a lot of people asking for unretouched, no-makeup, nude photos prior to booking me. Sometimes, they wanted me to hold up a sign in the photos with the current date. When I was modeling in my mid-20s, no one ever asked for that -- not ever.

At least 3-4 times per week, someone will say, "Oh, you look great for your age." I don't think they realize how icky that sounds; it's like saying that women just shrivel up and suddenly become ugly when they hit their late 20s or early 30s, and it simply isn't true.

Jul 02 12 02:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8,587
Pensacola, Florida, US


ShivaKitty wrote:

After I hit about 27-28, I stopped getting as many offers for erotica-type work, and the offers I did get were paying less than they had paid in previous years.

At that point, I stopped doing that type of work. I continued to do art nudes, some glamour and light fetish content.

The type of work you get offered will change as you age, and it is frustrating, but it's just how it is.

I also started getting a lot of people asking for unretouched, no-makeup, nude photos prior to booking me. Sometimes, they wanted me to hold up a sign in the photos with the current date. When I was modeling in my mid-20s, no one ever asked for that -- not ever.

At least 3-4 times per week, someone will say, "Oh, you look great for your age." I don't think they realize how icky that sounds; it's like saying that women just shrivel up and suddenly become ugly when they hit their late 20s or early 30s, and it simply isn't true.

i guess i mean the quantity of work, not the types of work.  i like how what i get hired for has been changing, because it happens to align with my preferences.  art nudes are my favorite!

i also totally hear the last part.

Jul 02 12 02:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MoRina
Posts: 5,444
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US


I laugh when so many women insist they look younger than their age.  Compared to what? There is no standard for what a 25 year old looks like.  There is no standard for what a 40 year old looks like.  When I was in high school, 95% of the girls were less than 115 lbs, and working out and staying fit was a way of life.  Now, muffin tops rule.  So, what each person thinks looks like 17 or 25 is meaningless.

I don't lie about my age.  I get booked because of my age sometimes, and sometimes I get booked in spite of my age. 

I don't agree with lying about age.  I think you should tell the truth and let the person hiring you decide if you'd be a good fit.  Our skin and hair changes as we age, no matter how healthy we live and how well we treat it.  It is unfair to present yourself as something you aren't.  Put unretouched pictures in your portfolio and let your look speak for itself.
Jul 02 12 02:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8,587
Pensacola, Florida, US


MoRina wrote:
So, what each person thinks looks like 17 or 25 is meaningless.

that's a big part of what i'm saying, yes.

Jul 02 12 03:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,226
Los Angeles, California, US


MoRina wrote:
I laugh when so many women insist they look younger than their age.  Compared to what? There is no standard for what a 25 year old looks like.  There is no standard for what a 40 year old looks like.  When I was in high school, 95% of the girls were less than 115 lbs, and working out and staying fit was a way of life.  Now, muffin tops rule.  So, what each person thinks looks like 17 or 25 is meaningless.

I don't lie about my age.  I get booked because of my age sometimes, and sometimes I get booked in spite of my age. 

I don't agree with lying about age.  I think you should tell the truth and let the person hiring you decide if you'd be a good fit.  Our skin and hair changes as we age, no matter how healthy we live and how well we treat it.  It is unfair to present yourself as something you aren't.  Put unretouched pictures in your portfolio and let your look speak for itself.

Actually, there kind of is...

That's why EVERY casting that I get has a narrow age range. And they're asking if you LOOK that age.

Except, of course, on MM. Granted, people on MM don't generally have the budget/ time to do in-person castings, where those casting directors weed out the people who don't fit.

Jul 02 12 03:33 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
MB Jen B
Posts: 2,432
Anchorage, Alaska, US


Wynd Mulysa wrote:
i'm starting to understand why some models lie about their age.

i don't fully understand having rigid age requirements in castings, because everyone ages differently.  i seriously just responded to a casting for which i am too old, and said "since everyone thinks i'm 17 i thought i'd go ahead and write..."
but that person probably thinks i'm full of shit or something.

do you lie about your age?

...

Hi I do not lie about my age and realize that I 'should' have replied to a casting much sooner even though the age ended at 11 years my junior and the weight ended under my current weight too because I replied 'after' the fact and it turned out that they may have hired me if I did contact them!

Weight is another factor that doesn't always correlate, especially based on height and measurements too.

Sometimes I am really, really amazed at the numbers models list for their weight when their measurement numbers are so different from mine! Like, they will say they are 30 pounds less than me but, have numbers that are inches bigger at all three! Well, maybe I am hiding all that weight in my legs or something I just don't know!

Signed, me, at 140lbs and 34, 25, 36, (actually more like 32, 25, 34 but, I haven't remeasured lately!)

AT 46,
Jen

Jul 02 12 10:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Shauna Carlo
Posts: 367
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Gennaver wrote:

Hi I do not lie about my age and realize that I 'should' have replied to a casting much sooner even though the age ended at 11 years my junior and the weight ended under my current weight too because I replied 'after' the fact and it turned out that they may have hired me if I did contact them!

Weight is another factor that doesn't always correlate, especially based on height and measurements too.

Sometimes I am really, really amazed at the numbers models list for their weight when their measurement numbers are so different from mine! Like, they will say they are 30 pounds less than me but, have numbers that are inches bigger at all three! Well, maybe I am hiding all that weight in my legs or something I just don't know!

Signed, me, at 140lbs and 34, 25, 36, (actually more like 32, 25, 34 but, I haven't remeasured lately!)

AT 46,
Jen

I think it's the body's build too. When I weighed 80 pounds my measurements weren't much different. But my legs and arms were def thinner and my waist was flatter. It's also people measuring wrong. A lot of people see the bust number as the number on their bra instead of the measurement around the fullest part. Same with hips. People sometimes think hip measurement means over your hip bones. They don't realize it is the fullest part over your butt.

That sucks that you missed that casting. I guess it's that .. you just never know. I just think of how I am and how annoyed I would get if I wanted something very specific and only got replies from people who didn't fit the casting. That is what always stops me.

Jul 02 12 10:17 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
MB Jen B
Posts: 2,432
Anchorage, Alaska, US


Carl Blum Photography wrote:
19 and No photoshop
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110626/15/4e07b3b07aa85_m.jpg

Same Here

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120517/21/4fb5d65a9abf3_m.jpg

edit to erase because I realized I was putting a critique where it did not belong.
Jen

Jul 02 12 10:24 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
MB Jen B
Posts: 2,432
Anchorage, Alaska, US


Star wrote:
....

People tell me I look 24 all the time (I am 36) but if you look at a photo of me when i was 24 and a photo of me now you can see the difference.

This is perfect advice.

I agree that anyone who thinks 'I' look a different age should also see my real picture of that age because "that" age was a LOT more youthful. wink

Great line Star.
Jen

Jul 02 12 10:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Blaneyphoto
Posts: 545
New York, New York, US


This is a little off topic, but regarding the misleading age postings (100 years old, etc) - You can be sure that I will never be doing a search for 100 year old models. So if you're 25 and for whatever reason decide to list yourself that way, then you're potentially mission out on a lot of work. Same with under-18's listing themselves as older - please don't do that. Same deal with your location - I've run into a few who listed themselves in radically different locations than in reality (Lives in Massachusetts yet lists themselves in France???)  Just be accurate with your stats and things will operate more smoothly, I think.
Jul 02 12 10:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
V Laroche
Posts: 2,721
New Orleans, Louisiana, US


I have been stopped by a cop for truancy. Maybe I should give away my Hello Kitty backpack.
Jul 02 12 10:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Vindictive Images
Posts: 274
Houston, Texas, US


Wynd Mulysa wrote:
i don't fully understand having rigid age requirements in castings, because everyone ages differently.  i seriously just responded to a casting for which i am too old, and said "since everyone thinks i'm 17 i thought i'd go ahead and write..."
but that person probably thinks i'm full of shit or something.

and, since photographers are gonna be all up in here anyway: photographers: why do you post an age range requirement on your castings?  or why not?

Because I wanted a certain look for the project. For example if I wanted a college coed look, I'd list 18-25 instead of 18-22 because I find there's about a 2-3 year variance on what models could pass off as being younger in that range. Everyone older that inquired
claiming that they look younger... no they didn't.

Oct 09 12 06:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
natural beauties of qld
Posts: 2,079
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


Carl Blum Photography wrote:
Oh Lets just Stir –up this post…
Go ahead and slam me, but this is my honest point of view

When I post a Casting, whether here or somewhere else, with an age requirement, it is usually to get a look asked for by my clients.

Up to about age 20 is a youthful look, no wrinkles, bags under eyes from drinking, perky body that is natural and not from working out. Fashion types are in this category. I prefer this age as they usually show up on time and have a great attitude.

20 to 23, usually for the young woman look, college look, great for selling product or services and for looking sexy.

23 to 32, professional looking types. I will usually pick the younger ones as there is LESS photoshop on wrinkles required. Great for fitness shots etc…

33 and older, professional shots, real estate advertising and probably the sexiest of all the groups for fitness.

For Age castings: If a model shows up to a shoot, Age is Always verified. Those that have not told the truth are just sent home.

Your classification is a pretty good starting point, and I agree with the heirarchy, but the age brackets will vary a lot with geography. 

To give you an example, I work mainly in South-East Queensland, which is a warm sub-tropical environment with fairly strong sun and the rapid skin ageing that goes with it.  If I venture south to Tasmania, which has a climate more like the north-east of the US, the people all look about 5 to 10 years younger than I would guess.  If I go west to Alice Springs (hot dry desert climate), they look 5 to 10 years older.

Oct 10 12 07:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
natural beauties of qld
Posts: 2,079
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


V Laroche wrote:
I have been stopped by a cop for truancy. Maybe I should give away my Hello Kitty backpack.

or buy the cop some eye-glasses

Oct 10 12 07:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
natural beauties of qld
Posts: 2,079
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


Apart from the over-18/under-18 aspect, and provided the model has good skin, good figure, and knows how to hold herself, I don't find age particularly important although the extra maturity that often comes from being a little older can be refreshing.
Oct 10 12 07:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kitty Katia
Posts: 12,695
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


I respond for castings within one-to-two years of my age. Granted, a lot of my work stems from my looking 16....but for castings that are super age-restrictive, I don't bother. smile
Oct 10 12 08:07 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
MB Jen B
Posts: 2,432
Anchorage, Alaska, US


Anna Adrielle wrote:
I wouldn't mind respoding to castings that I think are in my age range when I'm not acttually in the age range.

But I'm also not delusional. I've seen plenty of models who are 35 who think they look as a 27 year old, when they really don't. And they're all like "I hear this all the time", but dudes picking you up in a bar or familymembers kissing your ass really doesn't count...I think that's what pisses people off mostly

So I think it's fine as long as you're realistic smile

Hi,
I wonder if there should be an age range, like for actors, that we might best represent? I guess that I could maybe go ten years down but am not so sure I could go fully ten years up...well, maybe the reality check is that I could but just don't know it yet!
Jen

Oct 10 12 11:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
J Jessica
Posts: 1,811
Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, US


Star wrote:
you might look 17 to yourself, until you are partnered with an actual 17 year old model, then you will look old in comparison.

NO ONE thinks they look their age, they all think they look younger.

Age requirements are there for a reason, and it is disrespectful to not only the casting agent but the fellow people on the job to submit yourself if you do not fit the requirements.

I have been burned more than once by a model who shows up looking different then their photos (read older, fatter, bad skin) in a shoot, or a series of shoots, and is not appropriate for the shoot.

actual 17 year old model
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx106/lpalacios/102510%20Entertainment/102510FASHION.jpg

She looks younger than 17.
o.O
Are you suuuuuuuuuure?

Oct 10 12 11:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kent Art Photography
Posts: 2,543
Ashford, England, United Kingdom


Many people don't actually look as young as they think they do.
Oct 11 12 12:14 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
MB Jen B
Posts: 2,432
Anchorage, Alaska, US


Kent Art Photography wrote:
Many people don't actually look as young as they think they do.

I agree. Even with my own self perception of 'sometimes' not looking my age. I would say that I might have "moments" where I don't look my age but, that on average I do look my age.

Sure, if I'm fresh and rested and have make up on I might look younger but, catch me overtired, a little dehydrated and with no make up on than forget it, all flattrey is off and my real age just "is" undeniably there.

Jen

Oct 11 12 07:48 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fotografica Gregor
Posts: 3,964
Alexandria, Virginia, US


I post an age range for most of my castings and I use age range in most of my searches.

This is because I am shooting for a commercial client or I am shooting for a publication.

Age is one of metrics that is important in this milieu, along with height dress size and measurements.

On the rare occasion when I am shooting personal projects, I have flexibility on these points, and it's more about the look a model offers than the metrics.

But how do you find models without reference to some sort of standard that represents what you have in mind?
Oct 11 12 07:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kent Art Photography
Posts: 2,543
Ashford, England, United Kingdom


I remember a friend who was a casting agent telling me that it was possible for a twenty five year old to pull off the look of a seventeen year old, provided there weren't any real seventeen year olds around.
Oct 11 12 07:54 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


Gennaver wrote:
I agree. Even with my own self perception of 'sometimes' not looking my age. I would say that I might have "moments" where I don't look my age but, that on average I do look my age.

Sure, if I'm fresh and rested and have make up on I might look younger but, catch me overtired, a little dehydrated and with no make up on than forget it, all flattrey is off and my real age just "is" undeniably there.

Jen

Make up actually ages but perhaps there is a certain turning point in a woman's age when it goes the other way. I just know that if you catch me with no make up on, which is pretty much everyday I will look years younger.  And no it's not because my grandma or my bf told me so, when I posted photos of me without any on this site i was asked if I used my younger sister's photos.

Oct 11 12 07:56 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


Now on the question of what I do about it. I just don't respond when there are very specific requirements age or height wise, almost all the time I see that I would be a pretty good fit tho. It doesn't bother me however, I get plenty to do anyways.
Oct 11 12 07:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C Studios - Fashion
Posts: 4
Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada


There are reasons why a casting would be age specific.  I can only speak from a client generated casting but skin quality is one of them. 

The skin quality of a 20-25 year old is different then that of a 18 year old and a 30 year old.  I'm speaking on average.  Not the exceptions.  Hands, feet and necks tell a lot even then the face my still look young.  Smiles also tell a lot of age.  Skin wrinkles with smiles.

Another one is sophistication in the person's look in general.  You can't make a 30+ year old look as fresh faced as a 20 year, again I'm speaking in average. 

Most clients don't want to transform a person to go back in time (with age) when there are models readily available at the requested age range.  These are the reasons for age specific.  Editing isn't always an option nor is spending the extras on it justified when again you can find someone in the age range.

To tell a story.  I once was asked to shoot a beauty editorial for a magazine based in California.  They left the art direction up and model choices to me.  I chose to use 2 models.  One that was 18 and one that I was told was as fresh faces as an 18 year old.  I believe she was 24.  I had 4 days to shoot this editorial and didn't have time to see each model in person, so I went off the comps.  The younger one I had worked with already.  Have both girls on set gave a direct comparison to some of the differences I mentioned in skin.  Needless to say the editorial was shot with one model and published without issue.
Oct 11 12 08:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Carl Blum Photography wrote:
19 and No photoshop
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110626/15/4e07b3b07aa85_m.jpg

I think this might make the argument for a model not lying about her age and that we all might be a little skewed on how old we think we look.

If I had to guess I would have said that model is between 23-27. She certainly does not look 19 to me.

But, again, that's why ages are used in castings. Lying because you THINK you could pass for that age or you THINK you look younger than you are is a biased view.

Oct 11 12 08:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Abbitt Photography
Posts: 11,124
Oakland Acres, Iowa, US


I don't think it's someone else's place to lie, based on their personal opinion - People have their reasons.   If you think there is a valid reason you may be an exception to their requirement, then politely ask, but dont' lie.

For me the biggest reason to have an age requirement is that I don't want to deal with the immaturity, legality or parental invovlement invovled in shooting minors.  In other cases, my images demand a certain look.  If a photographer is shooting for a piece on women in their 30s and someone in either their 20s or 40s lies and states they are in their 30s, it can cause obvious problems. 

Often, I just want look that is older and more mature than the majority of 18-early twenties models that are most common here.  I also find models that are in their late 20s or older tend to be more reliable.   I've done serveral casting for models 30 or over for an international shoot only to get responses from models much younger who insist they are the rare exception that is very mature for their age, only to have all of them eventually vanish, causing the shoot to fall through.
Oct 11 12 09:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


I don't know why this thread reminds me of the actors on Beverly Hills 90210 (although I see it on many many TV shows and movies).

Were we really supposed to believe those were H.S. age actors? Luke Perry had crows feet for God's sake and the girl who played Andrea should have been doing Polident ads.

Sorry, that was a bit of a digression.
Oct 11 12 09:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tim Little Photography
Posts: 11,510
Wilmington, Delaware, US


Lies about ones age only last so long. We, or at least I and most people I know, have to get copies of ID's for all the talent. Back when I did TV at least I saw the talent live and in person at auditions. In the photography world all we have is a portfolio that may or may not be up to date and the integrity and honesty of the model.

If a model lies, that's the end of that working relationship. There are just too many other people to pick from that are honest.
Oct 11 12 09:15 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:

I think this might make the argument for a model not lying about her age and that we all might be a little skewed on how old we think we look.

If I had to guess I would have said that model is between 23-27. She certainly does not look 19 to me.

But, again, that's why ages are used in castings. Lying because you THINK you could pass for that age or you THINK you look younger than you are is a biased view.

I believe it doesn't say that she lied about her age and perhaps she could indeed be 19 and it's just bad styling. However, I absolutely agree with you that she doesn't look like it at all.

Oct 11 12 09:22 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


How did this turn into lying or not lying about one's age, I thought it was supposed to be whether a model responds to age specific casting even if she doesn't fall in the parameters or not. -_-
Oct 11 12 09:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Eden Macieira wrote:

I believe it doesn't say that she lied about her age and perhaps she could indeed be 19 and it's just bad styling. However, I absolutely agree with you that she doesn't look like it at all.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that model lied about her age. Only that the poster said she was 19 and, though I'm sure it's the truth, I think she looks a good bit older. Just wanted to illustrate that opinions vary and that we might not always be the best judges of ourselves.

Oct 11 12 09:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Eden Macieira wrote:
How did this turn into lying or not lying about one's age, I thought it was supposed to be whether a model responds to age specific casting even if she doesn't fall in the parameters or not. -_-

It started out as the OP understanding why some models lie about their age.

Oct 11 12 09:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
In Balance Photography
Posts: 3,338
Hopkinton, Massachusetts, US


Most of the time I put age limits in my castings and most of the time I get quite a few respondents that are outside the limits of the casting call.

Sometimes these models look like real possibilities, but without a clean face & figure shot I wouldn't use them.

On the few occasions that I've asked for those items, I never hear back.
Oct 11 12 09:35 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:

It started out as the OP understanding why some models lie about their age.

I understand that and I guess I'm trying to illustrate how people pick what they want to talk about and completely disregard the meaning of the thread by selective reading/responding.

OP was just venting her frustration because she has a real and serious problem where she can't reasonably answer casting calls that her actual age is out of range for but neither is she suitable for the ones of her age because of how she actually looks.

I have a similar problem with height/look requirements and it is extremely frustrating.

Oct 11 12 09:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
In Balance Photography
Posts: 3,338
Hopkinton, Massachusetts, US


Eden Macieira wrote:
...
I have a similar problem with height/look requirements and it is extremely frustrating.

I'm not sure I get the problem....

Oct 11 12 10:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3,255
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany


Kent Art Photography wrote:
Actually, many models are rathe delusional about what ages they claim to look.

A thirty year old might look twenty in some badly photoshopped pics in an MM portfolio, but in real life, in the studio, usually the truth will show.

Pretty much - for nude work, hitting the gym regularly and scrupulously looking after your skin will prolong your lifespan, but eventually the body starts to fall apart -and for some genres the cut-off is about 21. That's why many photographer cast for 18-30 models and peer very closely at the port images...
Most 'internet models' don't have the discipline to work out every day, drink 10 gallons of water a day, moisturise every ten minutes, abstain from cigarettes and alcohol for ever and go to bed at 21.30 every single night...

Some might argue that it's nothing that can't be fixed in photoshop and that's true up to a point - but if I can use a good 18 yo model and not photoshop every image instead of a good 28 yo model who requires a 'bit of post', then guess what?

Mind you, late nights, fags and booze seem to be working well enough for Dean Johnson, so who knows?

Oct 11 12 10:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C Studios - Fashion
Posts: 4
Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada


MoRina wrote:
There is no standard for what a 25 year old looks like.  There is no standard for what a 40 year old looks like.

There is a standard.  Try to be 40 years old and blend in with a 25 year old.  Try to be 25 and blend in with the 40 year old.  On average, there are certain things we look at to associate with a person at a given age.

Oct 11 12 10:53 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Figuremodel001
Posts: 246
Chicago, Illinois, US


Odin Photo wrote:
However, if a paying client says we want a shoot with a 20-21 year old female, then it's not my call.

Me too, although 20-21 seems a bit narrow, if someone takes the time to say 20- 30 or something, I don't think wasting there time if you are not that does any service for them or you.

Oct 14 12 11:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dark Shadows
Posts: 2,269
Miami, Florida, US


Almost every woman believes that she looks younger than her actual chronological age. Sometimes it is true, but very often it's not.

Taking into account the average person's innate desire to be polite, it's rather difficult to obtain brutally honest opinions on this subject from a third party.

I currently have a casting up calling for a girl who looks 19 or younger. I don't care what her actual age is if she looks the part, however I consider it a reasonable assumption that anyone past their early 20's is probably not going to be a good fit.
Oct 14 12 11:52 am  Link  Quote 
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