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Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,477
Salinas, California, US


If you are a model who doesn't do nudes, is this non negotiable or ... do you have a price?   The details of this question would be if a photographer of the quality that you admire were to offer you any amount of money (within reason), is there a dollar amount that would get you to change your mind? 

The reason for this question is that another photographer and I were discussing if models were absolutely "non-negotiable" on nudity or if there are some that could be persuaded with the right amount of money?

Some say "Will go nude ONLY for Playboy" for example.  If you are absolutely "non-negotiable" could you please elaborate on why?  I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I'm curious to learn more about just how negotiable some models are. Discuss!
Jul 11 12 05:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,036
Columbus, Ohio, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:
If you are a model who doesn't do nudes, is this non negotiable or ... do you have a price?   The details of this question would be if a photographer of the quality that you admire were to offer you any amount of money (within reason), is there a dollar amount that would get you to change your mind? 

The reason for this question is that another photographer and I were discussing if models were absolutely "non-negotiable" on nudity or if there are some that could be persuaded with the right amount of money?

Some say "Will go nude ONLY for Playboy" for example.  If you are absolutely "non-negotiable" could you please elaborate on why?  I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I'm curious to learn more about just how negotiable some models are. Discuss!

This could be interesting...

Jul 11 12 05:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DavidCoward Photography
Posts: 629
Sandy Springs, Georgia, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:
If you are a model who doesn't do nudes, is this non negotiable or ... do you have a price?   The details of this question would be if a photographer of the quality that you admire were to offer you any amount of money (within reason), is there a dollar amount that would get you to change your mind? 

The reason for this question is that another photographer and I were discussing if models were absolutely "non-negotiable" on nudity or if there are some that could be persuaded with the right amount of money?

Some say "Will go nude ONLY for Playboy" for example.  If you are absolutely "non-negotiable" could you please elaborate on why?  I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I'm curious to learn more about just how negotiable some models are. Discuss!

Buy me lunch at Taco Bell and I'll go butt naked. wink

Jul 11 12 05:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,493
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


I don't understand the need to try and persuaded a model who doesn't wish to shoot nudes to shoot nudes.  I mean aren't their enough models on MM willing to do nudes either for tf or paid ?/

Just my thoughts ~ MR
Jul 11 12 05:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,036
Columbus, Ohio, US


Yeah.....persuading is not really cool, particularly doing so with money.

It's tacky, and akin to bribery.
Jul 11 12 05:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TheLittleG Photography
Posts: 66
Columbus, Ohio, US


i find it interesting how there are models that put on there profile that they will NOT shoot nudes, not just on the left hand side but spell it out in there "About Me" section then when you look at some of there "lists" they will have a list of shoots i want to recreate or something to that effect and when you look at that there are nude poses in the list???

so do they want to shoot nude or not? confusing
Jul 11 12 05:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,477
Salinas, California, US


TheLittleG Photography wrote:
i find it interesting how there are models that put on there profile that they will NOT shoot nudes, not just on the left hand side but spell it out in there "About Me" section then when you look at some of there "lists" they will have a list of shoots i want to recreate or something to that effect and when you look at that there are nude poses in the list???

so do they want to shoot nude or not? confusing

It is a gray area.  As there are models who say they will do nudes, but it's something that must be negotiated before the shoot.

Jul 11 12 05:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Renato Alberto
Posts: 806
San Francisco, California, US


TheLittleG Photography wrote:
i find it interesting how there are models that put on there profile that they will NOT shoot nudes, not just on the left hand side but spell it out in there "About Me" section then when you look at some of there "lists" they will have a list of shoots i want to recreate or something to that effect and when you look at that there are nude poses in the list???

so do they want to shoot nude or not? confusing

I have always wondered that too, even more when they put on their profile that they will NOT do nudes, and their portfolio has nudes in it.

Jul 11 12 05:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rich Burroughs
Posts: 3,257
Portland, Oregon, US


Many things are relative, depending on the situation.

If Lara Stone wants me to pay her $100 an hour to shoot her, hand her a DVD with the RAW files  after and even share the copyright with her, I'd probably do it all. Working with her would be a pretty amazing boost to my work that would offset all of the negatives. If most other models asked me those questions the answer would be no.

But I'm not getting that offer from Lara Stone anytime soon. Likewise, if a model says she would only shoot nude for a million dollars, it's pretty much the same as a no unless someone is willing to pay her that much.
Jul 11 12 05:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TheLittleG Photography
Posts: 66
Columbus, Ohio, US


RenatoJr - RJ wrote:

I have always wondered that too, even more when they put on their profile that they will NOT do nudes, and their portfolio has nudes in it.

exactly...

Jul 11 12 05:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rich Burroughs
Posts: 3,257
Portland, Oregon, US


RenatoJr - RJ wrote:

I have always wondered that too, even more when they put on their profile that they will NOT do nudes, and their portfolio has nudes in it.

Sometimes they used to shoot nudes and no longer do. Sometimes they just want to be picky about who they choose to do them with. It's pretty easy to ask and find out.

Jul 11 12 05:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Renato Alberto
Posts: 806
San Francisco, California, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:

It is a gray area.  As there are models who say they will do nudes, but it's something that must be negotiated before the shoot.

OK, I can see that, but then shouldn't they say that instead of "NO NUDES, DON'T EVEN ASK"

Jul 11 12 05:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,477
Salinas, California, US


Cherrystone wrote:
Yeah.....persuading is not really cool, particularly doing so with money.

It's tacky, and akin to bribery.

What is "negotiation" if it is not about money and finding the right amount to persuade someone to do the job?  I'm not talking about using force or being pushy.  I'm just wondering about how much thought models give to nudity.  If it is for religious reasons, or if they have a career that would make nudity non negotiable, I understand that.  But what of those who are not clear one way or the other?  Do they have a price?  I do not mean this to question to be tacky or about bribery.

Jul 11 12 05:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark Anthony Photo
Posts: 199
Pottstown, Pennsylvania, US


Anyone notice, NO models have responded?
Jul 11 12 05:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TheLittleG Photography
Posts: 66
Columbus, Ohio, US


Rich Burroughs wrote:

Sometimes they used to shoot nudes and no longer do. Sometimes they just want to be picky about who they choose to do them with. It's pretty easy to ask and find out.

i feel if they spell it out on there profile that they will NOT do nudes, then asking them if they would is rude, disrespectful, and unprofessional.

i know i don't have to worry about it because i am not that good of a photographer yet and the models wouldn't even consider the thought if i asked.

but i have always been taught that NO means NO

Jul 11 12 05:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,477
Salinas, California, US


RenatoJr - RJ wrote:

OK, I can see that, but then shouldn't they say that instead of "NO NUDES, DON'T EVEN ASK"

Some do post those very words!

Jul 11 12 05:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,477
Salinas, California, US


Mark Anthony Photo wrote:
Anyone notice, NO models have responded?

And that makes me sad ... sad  I would really like to hear from the models regarding this subject.

Jul 11 12 05:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DavidCoward Photography
Posts: 629
Sandy Springs, Georgia, US


What's more puzzling than the models who say "no nudes" but have nudes in their ports, is the ones who say "paid assignments only" and you look at their port and all it is, is a handful of tacky camera phone pics.

Really? Do you expect someone to pay you when you have no experience?
Jul 11 12 05:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
CamiAnn
Posts: 794
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:
If you are a llama who doesn't do nudes, is this non negotiable or ... do you have a price?   The details of this question would be if a photographer of the quality that you admire were to offer you any amount of money (within reason), is there a dollar amount that would get you to change your mind? 

The reason for this question is that another photographer and I were discussing if llamas were absolutely "non-negotiable" on nudity or if there are some that could be persuaded with the right amount of money?

Some say "Will go nude ONLY for Playboy" for example.  If you are absolutely "non-negotiable" could you please elaborate on why?  I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I'm curious to learn more about just how negotiable some llamas are. Discuss!

Just speaking for myself, I have done them in the past and did get paid a fair amount of money (I will admit I was new and naive in the industry and needed the money at the time) many years ago.  I have also done nudes (mostly implied or artistic in nature) for TF with a photographer who was and still is "exceptional", but now its not so much the amount of money, but rather the quality of the images that matters to me at this point in my life.  Having said all that, I will still do "implied" nudes for TF, again, with a photographer who has an outstanding reputation and portfolio to back it up and if I think the images will enhance my own port in a way that suits me now. 

Not sure if that answers your question, but for me, while getting paid is a bonus, NO amount of money would pursuade me to do what I consider blatantly "raunchy" nudes with a photographer who is probably a GWC and has poor quality images in his port.   

Cami

Jul 11 12 05:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,477
Salinas, California, US


TheLittleG Photography wrote:
i feel if they spell it out on there profile that they will NOT do nudes, then asking them if they would is rude, disrespectful, and unprofessional.

i know i don't have to worry about it because i am not that good of a photographer yet and the llamas wouldn't even consider the thought if i asked.

but i have always been taught that NO means NO

Good point!  However, a llama who says she does nudes can say "no" to whatever is offered to her too.  An example is a llama who does nudes, but after planning a clothed shoot, the photographer waits until the photo session to ask the llama to do nudes.  At that point, the llama can say "yes" or "no", but should be respected either way.  Maybe I should not be asking this question then?

Jul 11 12 05:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TheLittleG Photography
Posts: 66
Columbus, Ohio, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:

Some do post those very words!

that is what i am talking about, in my post, there are some model profiles that say that
"NO NUDES, DON'T EVEN ASK"   and when you look at there "lists" and they have one titled "Photos I want to recreate"  and there are nude photos in it.
so if you look at the photos in the list it would tell me they will do nudes but there words say they will not...

why don't they say  "i will only do nudes with select photographers"?

Jul 11 12 05:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
J Jessica
Posts: 2,090
Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, US


... Non negotiable because I don't feel like it.
o_O
Jul 11 12 05:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,477
Salinas, California, US


Camigirl wrote:

Just speaking for myself, I have done them in the past and did get paid a fair amount of money (I will admit I was new and naive in the industry and needed the money at the time) many years ago.  I have also done nudes (mostly implied or artistic in nature) for TF with a photographer who was and still is "exceptional", but now its not so much the amount of money, but rather the quality of the images that matters to me at this point in my life.  Having said all that, I will still do "implied" nudes for TF, again, with a photographer who has an outstanding reputation and portfolio to back it up and if I think the images will enhance my own port in a way that suits me now. 

Not sure if that answers your question, but for me, while getting paid is a bonus, NO amount of money would pursuade me to do what I consider blatantly "raunchy" nudes with a photographer who is probably a GWC and has poor quality images in his port.   

Cami
Jul 11 12 05:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DavidCoward Photography
Posts: 629
Sandy Springs, Georgia, US


TheLittleG Photography wrote:
i know i don't have to worry about it because i am not that good of a photographer yet and the models wouldn't even consider the thought if i asked.

Don't sell yourself short. Some models who are just starting out don't mind working with beginning photographers and will do nudes if it's something they're interested in and they feel like they can trust you.

Jul 11 12 05:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
CamiAnn
Posts: 794
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:

Thank you for your reply, Cami!  You have an excellent portfolio, and you are very beautiful, so I can understand clearly your answer.  It's not so much about money, but the quality of the photographer, and your working relationship with that person.   If I were to sum it up with one word, I would say that you are "selective!"   Rightly so!  smile

Thank you very much for your kind compliment! and yes, since I do have two "implieds" in my port, I do state in my profile that I will do them with exceptional photographers only.   Ahhh...with age comes wisdom (and no flakiness wink

Jul 11 12 05:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MatureModelMM
Posts: 922
Detroit, Michigan, US


Selective is a good word to use, and it also depends on the art form.

I know many llamas who will pose nude for art classes or artists groups in a gallery, but would not do nude photos for any amount of money. This is probably because it is harder for the llama to be recognized in a drawing, painting, or sculpture than in a photo. Plus you don't know where the photos will end up, but the artwork will likely not go far from where it was created, and probably hang in someone's home or be put into storage by the artist fairly soon.

The llamas who say they won't do nudes but show them in their portfolio or wish list are being selective with who they offer to work nude with.

Even though nudes are my favorite genre and the vast majority of my llamaing work, I would still be selective about the project or concept and if it were something I was uncomfortable with, I would choose to politely decline even if offered well above the normal pay.
Jul 11 12 06:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,036
Columbus, Ohio, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:

What is "negotiation" if it is not about money and finding the right amount to persuade someone to do the job?  I'm not talking about using force or being pushy.  I'm just wondering about how much thought models give to nudity.  If it is for religious reasons, or if they have a career that would make nudity non negotiable, I understand that.  But what of those who are not clear one way or the other?  Do they have a price?  I do not mean this to question to be tacky or about bribery.

Persuading them with $$$ is being pushy, just indirectly.

Models generally are young. Young generally means finances can be tight or downright horrible. They might be at a point where the rent is past due, or there is one egg and a chunk of Velvetta left in the fridge.

Increases the odds someone is going to do something they really don't want to do, just because of the money.

Then comes the email a month later saying "OMG, I don't know what I was thinking, delete my images immediately".

I don't wish to get into that scenario, and I also like to sleep well at night.

Jul 11 12 06:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaia Murphy
Posts: 171
Champlin, Minnesota, US


I can only speak from personal experience, and that's exactly what I intend to do.

On the left side of my profile, it says "No" to shooting nudes. However, I have done nude shoots, and I am willing to do them again if I like the particular photographer's work (specifically his/her nude work). I have now addressed that contradiction in my "About Me" section on my profile. It's in the first paragraph actually. wink

I've discussed the Yes/No issue with photographers one-on-one, and have been advised that it's probably best to leave it "No," and let individual photographers bring up the idea of doing nudes if that's what he/she wants to do.

I've also had photographers advise me against changing my status on it because a "Yes" response has a tendency to attract GWCs. I realize it's the opinion of a few select photographers, but I'm in agreement with them.

I initially had it as "Yes," and I was indeed contacted by GWCs. I might change it back if I decide somewhere along the line that I want to focus on nude modeling. For the time being, however, I will continue to leave a "No" answer for whether or not I shoot nudes.

Does any of that makes sense? smile I hope so.
Jul 11 12 06:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rp_photo
Posts: 42,488
Houston, Texas, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:
Some say "Will go nude ONLY for Playboy" for example.

Those models will one day be walking around like Delta Dawn regretting the fact that Playboy never called and having missed out on many great shoots.

But then again, Playboy does have enough online special editions to be nearly all-inclusive.

Jul 11 12 06:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TheLittleG Photography
Posts: 66
Columbus, Ohio, US


hereticchick wrote:
I can only speak from personal experience, and that's exactly what I intend to do.

On the left side of my profile, it says "No" to shooting nudes. However, I have done nude shoots, and I am willing to do them again if I like the particular photographer's work (specifically his/her nude work). I have now addressed that contradiction in my "About Me" section on my profile. It's in the first paragraph actually. wink

I've discussed the Yes/No issue with photographers one-on-one, and have been advised that it's probably best to leave it "No," and let individual photographers bring up the idea of doing nudes if that's what he/she wants to do.

I've also had photographers advise me against changing my status on it because a "Yes" response has a tendency to attract GWCs. I realize it's the opinion of a few select photographers, but I'm in agreement with them.

I initially had it as "Yes," and I was indeed contacted by GWCs. I might change it back if I decide somewhere along the line that I want to focus on nude modeling. For the time being, however, I will continue to leave a "No" answer for whether or not I shoot nudes.

Does any of that makes sense? smile I hope so.

with your profile, i would ask you if there was a shoot i wanted to do with nudity because of how you worded your "about me" section and if you said NO then that would be the end of it, i wouldn't even try to negotiate it

my point is more with the models the spells it out that they will NOT do nude don't even ask.

on those profiles, if i have a great concept and was a great photographer would it be proper for me to ask them any ways if they have nude photos in there port or in a list of concepts they want to recreate?

to me that would be a NO as i stated before, it would be rude, disrespectful. and unprofessional.
them puting it on there profile is saying no and NO means NO period

Jul 11 12 06:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LMG Images
Posts: 673
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Hey, what about photographers that don't shoot nudes?
Jul 11 12 06:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Opportunistic Photog
Posts: 29
HAIKU, Hawaii, US


What I don't get is, the model that says no to nudes, but then you open her portfolio and half the shots are full nude, artistic or whatever..

If your going to say, NO NUDES, and mark MM like that in your profile...then those shots shouldn't even be in your portfolio.
Jul 11 12 06:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gary Melton
Posts: 6,338
Dallas, Texas, US


There are thousands and thousands of models who WILL do nudes...why should I disrespect someone who doesn't want to shoot them by trying to change their minds?  I respect their wishes and simply hire models who do shoot them.  I've never had any problems finding them...don't expect to any time soon.
Jul 11 12 06:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaia Murphy
Posts: 171
Champlin, Minnesota, US


TheLittleG Photography wrote:
with your profile, i would ask you if there was a shoot i wanted to do with nudity because of how you worded your "about me" section and if you said NO then that would be the end of it, i wouldn't even try to negotiate it

I really appreciate knowing that I'm clear in my profile. I make an active effort to be as thoroughly comprehensible as possible. smile Thank you.

Jul 11 12 06:21 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 5,938
New York, New York, US


I've wondered about this too, and asked individual models.  Many feel that by charging for nudes or charging more or putting restrictions on when where and with whom they will shoot nudes, they are creating a premium, "boutique" product of what would otherwise just be an inexpensive dime-store product.  But by far, the ones I've talked to simply want to be in a position to control the uses that will be made of their bodies and the pictures taken of them.

I've found that a good portfolio and a good concept, respectfully proposed, are far more likely to make a model want to shoot nudes than waving a wad of cash at her.

All IMHO, as always.
Jul 11 12 06:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sarah_
Posts: 1,487
Denver, Colorado, US


In my case, I have never taken a nude shot nor will I ever no matter how much money I am offered.  As someone who intends to work in the corporate world and has spent years of hard work earning business degrees, I will not jeopardize my career with any sort of photos that could be deemed inappropriate for a business executive.  I prefer to err on the safe side, which means no lingerie and no nudes.  People tried to tell me that refusing "sexy" work would cripple my modeling career, but I much prefer to refuse a few offers now rather than risk destroying a future corporate career.  Besides, I've been published in more than ten countries around the world, so if that's limited, I'm okay with these limitations. smile
Jul 11 12 06:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Amelia Talon
Posts: 1,470
Los Angeles, California, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:
Some say "Will go nude ONLY for Playboy" for example.

If they are Playmates, for 2 years after their month is non-negotiable. I've heard of other girls who were also under contract, but unsure if this is true and for which titles.
That and some girls want to wait it out for Playmate, in some cases it could hinder their worth to Playboy.

Jul 11 12 06:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,781
Olivet, Michigan, US


Cherrystone wrote:
Yeah.....persuading is not really cool, particularly doing so with money.

It's tacky, and akin to bribery.

I have no problem with "inspiring" someone to shoot nude, based on love of my art, or comfort with the shoot environment.  But "convincing" someone to pose nude when they don't want to seems pointless, and creepy.  Doing so by waving money in front of them (not paying a nude model, but convincing someone who needs money that getting naked will solve it) is, if anything, worse.

Jul 11 12 06:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C.C. Holdings
Posts: 594
New York, New York, US


Look at that model's travel and availability notices, many are willing to do nudity when they post their own availability notice

but otherwise may rant about you not reading their profile if you just messaged them directly for a nude shoot

its a phenomenom, don't think too hard about it. reply to the local notices if you find something you look, or post your own casting call, or use a filter to message models that do write they are available for nudity
Jul 11 12 06:33 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 34,699
San Francisco, California, US


I think the answer here should be obvious from the responses.  There are plenty of girls who put "No nudity" in their profile, but in the right situation, they will do it.  That isn't what the OP asked.  He asked if, for a girl who "absolutely, positively" won't do nudes, would she change her mind for money.

With very few exceptions, the answer is "No!"
Jul 11 12 06:36 pm  Link  Quote 
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