Just so we're all crystal clear here. You are doing this hair show and not receiving anything in return. Not one thing. Not a photo, not a sample bag of product...NOTHING. I want to get this really clarified because if you are receiving photos of the event, you ARE getting paid. However, if you are just showing up with the hopes of making contacts and using this as a business networking event, then you need to suck this up as a cost of doing business, and if the 20 bucks you need in gas is a major expense for you, then I hate to be the bearer of bad news for you but modeling is your hobby, it's not something you're doing professionally.
Either you're a professional or you're not. And if you are receiving nothing at all other than the potential ability to network with others and you cannot afford to do this project, then might I suggest you notify them immediately that you can't make it or bum 20 bucks off of a friend. Either way, asking for gas money from these guys is unprofessional any way you slice it. And even if they agree to pay you for this, don't be shocked if you just got yourself labeled as "difficult to work with" by everyone attached to this project.
What people have forgotten over the years is that TFP is the model being PAID in photos instead of money. It stands for Time For Prints so the model is giving her time in trade for photos instead of money. What the shoot is for is irrelevant! The way it is supposed to work is a photographer has an assignment. It could be a paid assignment or something for his own personal portfolio or what have you. The photographer's options are to hire a model and pay her money, or find a model who is in need of photos for her own portfolio and give her some shots from the shoot. This way she does not have to hire a photographer to help build her portfolio.
Another way to look at the whole money for gas thing: Go get a job at a Walmart that is an hour away from you and see if they'll pay for your gas to get to and from work. Oh, and see if they'll pay you your hourly modeling rate too.
So you bumped an old thread to say that?
Did you read that this was a "hair show" and not a photo shoot? I sympathize with the model OP having been a photographer for companies that produce hair shows in my own past work. It doesn't hurt to ask! I happen to be understanding of transportation cost for one time events like hair shows, and even shoots.
Tairat Baoku wrote: lol..:sighs: Thank you hair show, not shoot!! gosh...Maybe I should have been more clear and stated that this is for the bronner brothers hair show, and not a PHOTO SHOOT. I dont mind driving and I already know that I was providing FREE labor, but what people on here are failing t realize is that I stated that things started to get rough a few days ago and now money is starting to be an issue for me....So that is the only reason why I am asking for a few dollars 2 throw in the tank... :-)
.... so ....
Rays Fine Art wrote: I'd say it should be part of the upfront negotiations or not at all. Once you've accepted the deal, that's the deal, even if "things get a little tough". After all, things are a little tough for everybody right now, so you're hardly the only one facing a cash crunch.
If you really can't afford to do the gig without gas money, (which may well be true) discuss it now and give them the opportunity to find someone else to take your place. but be ready to accept the fact that if you do your reputation will take a hit not only from the people doing the hair show, but from all the people they will talk to about it---and rest assured, they will talk.
If there is any way for you to meet your commitment, I'd say bite the bullet and do so. You'll be better off in the long run. New York is a much bigger market than Atlanta, but even here, word gets around. I'd guess it gets around a lot faster in Atlanta.
You are right on! Thank you for actually reading the original post!
Then yet another one who read the OP's comments.
Shot By Adam wrote: Just so we're all crystal clear here. You are doing this hair show and not receiving anything in return. Not one thing. Not a photo, not a sample bag of product...NOTHING. I want to get this really clarified because if you are receiving photos of the event, you ARE getting paid. However, if you are just showing up with the hopes of making contacts and using this as a business networking event, then you need to suck this up as a cost of doing business, and if the 20 bucks you need in gas is a major expense for you, then I hate to be the bearer of bad news for you but modeling is your hobby, it's not something you're doing professionally.
Either you're a professional or you're not. And if you are receiving nothing at all other than the potential ability to network with others and you cannot afford to do this project, then might I suggest you notify them immediately that you can't make it or bum 20 bucks off of a friend. Either way, asking for gas money from these guys is unprofessional any way you slice it. And even if they agree to pay you for this, don't be shocked if you just got yourself labeled as "difficult to work with" by everyone attached to this project.
As she had posted this back in July, I'm sure the hair show is long over. It would be interesting to know how this all turned out, but I think she got the message and understood. Again, this is an old thread.
Lars R Peterson wrote: Yep. If I have to drive to work... I do not include the time it takes to get there as the hourly wage that they pay me.
If I (as a photographer) were to agree to a TFP shoot with a model... I would not expect to pay for her travel time. If I paid a model, I would assume that part of her pay was going toward gas money, and I would not pay her MORE than the agreed upon amount, just because she had to travel to the shoot. Same with a TFP. If we agree on $X.XX amount of money, that's what you get. Regardless of whether you are from Seattle, Lynnwood, Everett, or Jerusalem. Models that agree to a TFP shoot with me, and then ask for compensation for "travel" get a free, one-way pass to my black-list. I lump them in with the bait-and-switch tactic girls...
Work for pay, or work for something else... do NOT try to work for one thing, and then also expect money just because it is not as convenient for you to get to the shoot as it might be for other "models".
I've covered gas on occasion, and I've said no. It depends on how bad I want to shoot with them, and how/ when they ask. If it's part of the initial planning, and I'd be willing to drive to them, most of the time, I'll do it. Part of that comes, no doubt, from being in the middle of nowhere. Last year, about 3/4 of the models I shot live more than two hours from me.
Tairat Baoku wrote: Quick question..
Would it be wrong to ask for a little compesation for gas even though the assigment is a TF?
Things are rough right about now, and I have an assignment next week that requires me to travel twice to a location that is about 50 mins away from where I reside..
if they moved the shoot closer to you would you pay their gas?
Once you have agreed to a shoot it is tacky to suddenly ask for help with gas etc...
My avatar has a beautiful model Kelly, as Maleficient (Kelli is also beautiful but not part of my point), and Kelly was kind enough to step in at the last minute when the original model suddenly "needed" me to give her $50 for the train.
Now not only I have the original model on a do not work with list, but so does the publication, stylist, and everyone involved in the shoot (about 27 people.) As the stylist was the one to recommend the model who wanted the $50 she lost a real industry connection when she decided to act that way.
edit- as this is a zombie thread i think people would be well served to look at the current portfolio of the OP
if they moved the shoot closer to you would you pay their gas?
Once you have agreed to a shoot it is tacky to suddenly ask for help with gas etc...
My avatar has a beautiful model Kelly, as Maleficient (Kelli is also beautiful but not part of my point), and Kelly was kind enough to step in at the last minute when the original model suddenly "needed" me to give her $50 for the train.
Now not only I have the original model on a do not work with list, but so does the publication, stylist, and everyone involved in the shoot (about 27 people.) As the stylist was the one to recommend the model who wanted the $50 she lost a real industry connection when she decided to act that way.
edit- as this is a zombie thread i think people would be well served to look at the current portfolio of the OP
Yes, a zombie thread, and the pictures she has on her portfolio are from before the hair show. I might add that providing yourself as a hair model for a hair show is different than modeling for a photographer for pictures. If hair extensions were done, those cost hundreds of dollars.
Tairat Baoku wrote: Quick question..
Would it be wrong to ask for a little compesation for gas even though the assigment is a TF?
Things are rough right about now, and I have an assignment next week that requires me to travel twice to a location that is about 50 mins away from where I reside..
Yes. Unless you plan on compensating the photographer for his time on the set, his time editing images, wear and tear on his material, and the images you get for your book.
Colorado Model Amber wrote: She asked a simple question, Amazing all the remarks and non needed comments she's getting.
You can always ask for help to get to the location there's no shame or anything wrong with that. :-)
Thank you! Three pages of banter!
I would not consider it rude or unprofessional if someone asked me. Yes, even after we agreed to shoot. I would be remiss if I didn't offer gas money to someone traveling far for a TF shoot.
She ONLY asked about gas, Most of yall are giving her non needed responses ... Most are pretty rude. Isint that like against the rules?
EDIT: I also wanna point out I like how someone called her "unprofessional" for wanting to ask for gas, Are you serious? You know how many Models ask for gas, even I do it and I am far from unprofessional. She wasnt "expecting" anything! She ASKED if it was okay or not, She didnt ask WHY it was okay nor not.
Yall just give her a simple yes or no, why is that so hard?
Colorado Model Amber wrote: Then you have no right to respond to this post.
Why not?
I cannot tell a model that it's neither right nor wrong to ask for $20 for gas?
I cannot agree that a company that is using her time and effort to make money should reciprocate and pay her for that time and effort, thus negating the issue?
You did read the post you just made, right? lol think you just answered your own question. lol
Anyway thats my 2 cents, I did message her to apologies for MOST of yalls unsolicited comments. Enjoy the Night. :-)
I have no right to answer a question because I have an opinion on the matter? Um... isn't that the sole requirement for answering a question like this?
George Ruge wrote: If a model is coming from an hour or so away, I offer gas money 20 to 50 $$ I'm so far from anywhere.
Tairat Baoku wrote: Yeah That is the least a person can do...
Really? The least a person can do? One of us has to pay for your gas, and you think it should be me?
If someone sympathizes with your financial situation and wants to help out then that's a nice thing for them to do, but to expect someone else to pay for your gas is not "the least a person can do". Trust me, they have their own expenses they have to take care of for a tf shoot to take place... they should expect to be responsible to pay for theirs and you should expect to be responsible to pay for yours.
Edit: Aw hell, old thread is old. And from the looks of her credits she figured it out cause the hair show is listed.
Colorado Model Amber wrote: I'm sorry but this really needs to be locked!!
She ONLY asked about gas, Most of yall are giving her non needed responses ... Most are pretty rude. Isint that like against the rules?
EDIT: I also wanna point out I like how someone called her "unprofessional" for wanting to ask for gas, Are you serious? You know how many Models ask for gas, even I do it and I am far from unprofessional. She wasnt "expecting" anything! She ASKED if it was okay or not, She didnt ask WHY it was okay nor not.
Yall just give her a simple yes or no, why is that so hard?
I agree with you that this should be locked. Not only is it an old thread that she never came back to, but most of the photographers are not reading what she said. This was NOT about a TFP photo shoot, it was about her modeling her hair for a fairly well known hair show.
I was a photographer for a major cosmetic products distributor in the 1990's and saw the behind the scenes of such events. It's nothing like a typical photo shoot at all! All she has to do is ask! There will be more than a few models available ... there always is! What she gets in return for modeling hair is a hair style, cut, or design that could include weaves, braids ... very expensive stuff depending on what the hair stylist wants to do with her hair. All this could be worth as much as $300 if she were to get it done at a high end salon. However she does not get a choice as to what they do, and she will not be guaranteed any photos ... unless she gets a nice photographer like me.
This thread makes me want to shout; IT'S NOT ABOUT A PHOTO SHOOT, THIS IS ABOUT A HAIR SHOW!!!! Is that loud enough? Will anyone read it?
I agree with you that this should be locked. Not only is it an old thread that she never came back to, but most of the photographers are not reading what she said. This was NOT about a TFP photo shoot, it was about her modeling her hair for a fairly well known hair show.
I was a photographer for a major cosmetic products distributor in the 1990's and saw the behind the scenes of such events. It's nothing like a typical photo shoot at all! All she has to do is ask! There will be more than a few models available ... there always is! What she gets in return for modeling hair is a hair style, cut, or design that could include weaves, braids ... very expensive stuff depending on what the hair stylist wants to do with her hair. All this could be worth as much as $300 if she were to get it done at a high end salon. However she does not get a choice as to what they do, and she will not be guaranteed any photos ... unless she gets a nice photographer like me.
This thread makes me want to shout; IT'S NOT ABOUT A PHOTO SHOOT, THIS IS ABOUT A HAIR SHOW!!!! Is that loud enough? Will anyone read it?
K E E L I N G wrote: Edit: Aw hell, old thread is old. And from the looks of her credits she figured it out cause the hair show is listed.
Yes! Star said by the looks of her profile that she had figured it out, but I looked at her images which are all before the hair show. She does have it in her credits, and as I had said before, getting any images is an "Iffy" thing. I wonder if they gave her the gas money or not? I have a friend who is in sort of an elite cosmetology school where she was going to recruit models for a trade for hair styling. I suggested that she get a few dollars together to pay the model(s) 10 or 20 for gas. She ended up getting her relatives instead.
These students pay thousands of dollars for tuition and supplies by the way. But again ... it's a trade for hair style. No gas? Well someone else will do it that can get there. It all depends on how badly you want it, but it never hurts to ask!
LOL SOME OF YOU CANNOT READ. And some of the responses were uncalled for, but who am I to talk we are all entitled to our own opinions.. Anyways is there a way that this thread can deleted because I AM AMAZED that people are still commenting MONTHS after the EVENT,not SHOOT. :sighs:
I usually won't do a TF more than 30 minutes away, depending on the assignment for the same reasons. (My husband and I share a car and we have limited income.) If you must go to the event, ask early on. If the answer is no, you have to decide if this is worth it for you or not.
Tairat Baoku wrote: LOL SOME OF YOU CANNOT READ. And some of the responses were uncalled for, but who am I to talk we are all entitled to our own opinions.. Anyways is there a way that this thread can deleted because I AM AMAZED that people are still commenting MONTHS after the EVENT,not SHOOT. :sighs:
I pay travel expenses to all of my crew. This, in addition to feeding them, makes them that much happier to be on-set and working toward the image that's my vision.
It helps with the trust issues. Everyone, when working with a new photographer, thinks, "i hope the image is as good as what's in their port!"
If you make sure they're not out of pocket for the shoot, they're no longer worried about it being a waste of money.
Is that loud enough? Will anyone read it?
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