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first12
Photographer
photoimager
Posts: 4,111
Stoke-on-Trent, England, United Kingdom


Back to the OP:

I do use the Sigma 10-20 mentioned by Koutia. The only time I intentionally use it for people is in a wedding car or limo. I'd agree that 35mm on a DX body does not go wide but I find 20mm to be in the land of distortions, disproportionately emphasising whatever is closest to the lens, be it a nose, an arm or whatever. When I do not have the space to step back then I find my 17-55 F2.8 Nikkor to generally be ideal but, stopped down to F8 it is not noticeably better in IQ terms than my 18-70 lens that came with my D70 ( yes, D70, not an error ). The 18-70 is much better than the 18-55 kit lens.

If you have the 18-55 kit lens that came with your camera, use it to find out what focal length you think you need to go to at the wider end in the conditions in which you are working. Make sure that you are giving due regard to how going too wide might impact on how people are appearing in the image.
Aug 07 12 03:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Theuns Verwoerd
Posts: 84
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand


Considering that the 35mm f/1.8G is a DX lens IIRC, why not replace it with another DX lens - the Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 is beautifully sharp (f/4+), goes fairly wide, and costs not much more than the 35mm.

Lenses holding their value has a flip side: it means you can buy one that does what you want right now, resell it when you upgrade your body for very little loss.  Especially on the wide end, where you'd be schlepping around a lot of extra weight for no gain.
Aug 07 12 03:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 50,254
Buena Park, California, US


Leggy Mountbatten wrote:

Leggy Mountbatten wrote:
But it's not the same amount of light. I'm not talking about exposure settings, I'm talking about the total amount of light collected on the sensor.

The FF sensor is 2.25x as big as a Nikon DX format sensor. With the identical exposure settings, the FF sensor is going to collect 2.25x as much light.

Again, I'm not talking about exposure. Why you keep bringing that up is beyond my comprehension.

Let me try another way of describing this. Let's say you're in a really heavy storm, and you want to collect water from this storm. You only have five seconds to collect as much water as you can. Do you use a pint glass, or do you use a bathtub?

What point are you trying to make?  I'm having trouble following this.  If you're talking about volume, then yeah, this makes sense.  But so what?  How does that impact the image?  Exposure is exposure and it doesn't change with the size of the sensor.  When you meter a scene, the metering device does not take into account whether you are digital, film, aspect ratio, film size, or sensor size.  Shutter, plus aperture, plus sensitivity.  I'm pretty sure that's it.

Aug 07 12 08:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leggy Mountbatten
Posts: 12,529
Kansas City, Missouri, US


Christopher Hartman wrote:
What point are you trying to make?  I'm having trouble following this.

Yes, I know. wink

Christopher Hartman wrote:
If you're talking about volume, then yeah, this makes sense.  But so what?  How does that impact the image?  Exposure is exposure and it doesn't change with the size of the sensor.

You're the only person talking about exposure, even though I've clearly stated that exposure isn't what I'm talking about.

Leggy Mountbatten wrote:
But yes, it does affect both. Depth of field is easy enough to understand. The "lost light" is that which is cropped away; it winds up on the sides of the mirror box, adding to veiling flare. The brightness of the lens is the same, but the total light gathering power of the system is reduced, due to the loss of imaging area.
Leggy Mountbatten wrote:
But it's not the same amount of light. I'm not talking about exposure settings, I'm talking about the total amount of light collected on the sensor.

The FF sensor is 2.25x as big as a Nikon DX format sensor. With the identical exposure settings, the FF sensor is going to collect 2.25x as much light.
Leggy Mountbatten wrote:
Again, I'm not talking about exposure. Why you keep bringing that up is beyond my comprehension.
Christopher Hartman wrote:
When you meter a scene, the metering device does not take into account whether you are digital, film, aspect ratio, film size, or sensor size.  Shutter, plus aperture, plus sensitivity.  I'm pretty sure that's it.

As far as exposure goes, you're right. But that's not what I'm talking about. You need to get that out of your head. You kinda sorta almost got on the right track for half a sentence here:


Christopher Hartman wrote:
If you're talking about volume, then yeah, this makes sense.  But so what?  How does that impact the image?

Now that's a very good question.

Ever wonder why a digital SLR has much higher image quality than, say, a camera phone? Is it the number of megapixels? The advanced autofocus? The manual controls?

Mostly, it's the size of the sensor. You know this, but think about it for a minute. Why does the size of the sensor matter? After all, my camera phone has an f/2.8 lens, too. And that tiny little sensor collects just as much light as my 5D Mk III, right?

But wait: the camera phone's lens is also very tiny. Sure, it's an f/2.8 lens, but the size of the opening is so small that it has diffraction even wide open. Whereas my 50mm lens at f/2.8 has an opening nearly 18mm in diameter. That aperture could swallow the entire "camera" part of my camera phone.

The answer, of course, is that the larger sensor collects considerably more light (volume, as you correctly described it) during each exposure. Even with identical exposure settings. The total amount of light collected is the single most important factor in image quality, which is why larger sensors and larger film formats have higher image quality, and why you have to use larger apertures with smaller formats to compensate for the difference.

Aug 07 12 08:51 pm  Link  Quote 
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