Chincha
Posts: 10
Ljubljana, Osrednjeslovenska, Slovenia
I am stuck and I feel like if I want to move forward in my career, I have to move. But where to?
I currently live in Slovenia, where I was born and raised. I work as one of world known makeup brand's national artists (only 6 of us and working only a few times a year - it's a small market) and I do as much freelance work as I can. I work on fashion shoots, I've done a few commercials, magazine covers, promos and short films and I do weddings whenever I can. I basically take whatever jobs I can, most of which are not paid but I use them to build my portfolio. I've been doing this for around two years now and I'm basically as far as I can go here. There are no jobs in the theatres and ballet (they do everything themselves), no big commercial jobs (everything done by literally 2 MUA's who don't let anyone close and have a solid relationships with the few production houses we have), magazine shoots are either done by the same 2 MUA's or outsourced to foreign well known MUA's. So I just go around grabbing leftovers. You'd think that it would be easier to make it in a 2 million nation but here, everybody knows everybody and nepotism is a rule rather than exception. Not to mention that pay is way below acceptable and even the good ones don't really make that great of a living. I am still young and willing to learn, so the only way out of this (the way I see it) is to move to a place with more potential and start there. I know it would be hard, I'd earn next to nothing for quite a while and work other jobs to support myself but I do that anyway and in the end I don't even have anything o look forward to here. I thought about going away from makeup until things get better but I miss it too much and I really feel like I have to push forward and give this a fair try.
So far I've thought about trying out in London because it's closest(but I feel like the market might be oversaturated already) and Toronto because I have some family there and an awesome mentor who I'd had a privilege to shadow once and would love to learn more from given an opportunity. I am not limiting myself to those two cities because I've traveled quite a bit over the last few years and to be honest, I feel like I've got nothing to lose if I try. So if you have other suggestions, please let me know! Where would be a good place to start over?
A lot more is happening in London than anywhere else. Yet it is a super expensive city. Not that Toronto is cheap.
There are so many good people in Toronto already. I saw all the big agencies, and they offered there best people. That tells me not enough demand for the amount of qualified talent.
London has no limits, the people are really fantastic. Just have to be ready for a lot longer road to success if ever.
If it were me I'd go London. Yet I just got back from Toronto! Yet, London and PAris and NY are interchangeable for me, Toronto doesn't fit in.
Richard Nolan
Posts: 100
London, England, United Kingdom
I grew up in Toronto but have lived in London for the past 11years. I would go for the larger market and that would easily be London. Also, I suspect the moving to the UK would be easier visa wise than Toronto. Other markets to consider would be LA or NYC, or Paris
Yan Tan Tethera
Posts: 3,995
Biggleswade, England, United Kingdom
Richard Nolan wrote: I grew up in Toronto but have lived in London for the past 11years. I would go for the larger market and that would easily be London. Also, I suspect the moving to the UK would be easier visa wise than Toronto. Other markets to consider would be LA or NYC, or Paris
OP doesn't need a visa to work in the UK. Slovenia is in the EC.
i don't know much about the industry, but i would agree london would be your best bet. if nothing else, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive to move (shipping your stuff over), i don't think. and idk about canada, but the economy sucks in the usa and idk if it's that much better up there.
i would think london is doing pretty well economically, what with the olympics having just been there. all that tourism. people may have more money they are willing and able to spend.
Yan Tan Tethera
Posts: 3,995
Biggleswade, England, United Kingdom
Lizzy Borden wrote: i don't know much about the industry, but i would agree london would be your best bet. if nothing else, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive to move (shipping your stuff over), i don't think. and idk about canada, but the economy sucks in the usa and idk if it's that much better up there.
i would think london is doing pretty well economically, what with the olympics having just been there. all that tourism. people may have more money they are willing and able to spend.
Actually , Olympics or not, the economy stinks here at the moment. There is certainly no boom being experienced.
Chincha
Posts: 10
Ljubljana, Osrednjeslovenska, Slovenia
Lizzy Borden wrote: i don't know much about the industry, but i would agree london would be your best bet. if nothing else, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive to move (shipping your stuff over), i don't think. and idk about canada, but the economy sucks in the usa and idk if it's that much better up there.
i would think london is doing pretty well economically, what with the olympics having just been there. all that tourism. people may have more money they are willing and able to spend.
Thanks everybody for your input! What do you think about LA? Or New Zealand and their film industry?
@Lizzy I'm not sure it would be cheaper, esp. Because rent and expenses are higher in London and from my research I saw that day/half day rates are almost a half compared to the other side of the pond. Maybe someone from the UK could confirm/deny this?
Diana wrote: Oh and Neil, could be you were offered up the best 'cause the best wanted to work with you, not necessarily 'cause they weren't busy.
Who said they weren't busy?
I said supply and demand too many talented people to do creative work with little demand. The people in the agencies have enough work, yet most want to do something better that is not asked for. Hence Plutino, Page One, Ford artist, etc wanted to put their people in front to do that. They could do that with the photographers who hire them already, yet I'm afraid that is rather routine. Always looking for something exterior, is a new thing, which translates to a good thing. Yet it doesn't last long....
What is interesting in NY London Paris, is the world is coming to those cities to go beyond where they are from. Toronto although very cosmopolitain doesn't have a draw for photography in the same way. Likely why having someone come from a much more beauty driven market it has a very attractive advantage, over someone equally talented but from a market that isn't in the top cities.
Again as someone said above, there have been talent come to Toronto from the top cities and it still wasn't easy. I can say the same, Fashion or formerly Toronto Life Fashion which I had worked for previously gave the snottiest answer I could imagine, basically saying what the hair and make up agencies said" the clients are used to seeing the same old stuff forever, they cannot be convinced to do things in any other way they know".....
Heather J M
Posts: 637
London, England, United Kingdom
I would say that a trip to any/all cities you hope to work in in advance of moving would surely be a good idea. I'd imagine that you'd have to try to get an agent interested in you immediately as you'd be arriving with no network at all. I like your portfolio - I think it's striking, but I'm no agent. Rates vary so much here, and I honestly couldn't tell you what the top fashion artists can command as I only dabble in print, but you are right that the cost of living here is very high compared with many other parts of the world.
I would imagine one of the biggest issues you have would be successfully getting a working visa. Within the EU its straightforward, but NZ or the USA or Canada might not even be an option for you?
I said supply and demand too many talented people to do creative work with little demand. The people in the agencies have enough work, yet most want to do something better that is not asked for. Hence Plutino, Page One, Ford artist, etc wanted to put their people in front to do that. They could do that with the photographers who hire them already, yet I'm afraid that is rather routine. Always looking for something exterior, is a new thing, which translates to a good thing. Yet it doesn't last long....
What is interesting in NY London Paris, is the world is coming to those cities to go beyond where they are from. Toronto although very cosmopolitain doesn't have a draw for photography in the same way. Likely why having someone come from a much more beauty driven market it has a very attractive advantage, over someone equally talented but from a market that isn't in the top cities.
Again as someone said above, there have been talent come to Toronto from the top cities and it still wasn't easy. I can say the same, Fashion or formerly Toronto Life Fashion which I had worked for previously gave the snottiest answer I could imagine, basically saying what the hair and make up agencies said" the clients are used to seeing the same old stuff forever, they cannot be convinced to do things in any other way they know".....
Wow. Ok... Thanks for that Neil. I was just trying to be cute by paying you a compliment with my aside.
Clearly a *fail* on my part.
Chincha
Posts: 10
Ljubljana, Osrednjeslovenska, Slovenia
Thanks everybody for your responses again!
I guess London would be logistically the easiest to move to but I'll take a trip there shortly to check out the market, try to get some interviews if I can... I'm thinking that fall would be a good time to try London out as they might need more temps in the retail field so I might actually have a chance of landing a makeup-related side job at a counter or in a store rather than bartending or something like that.
What do you think? Where should I check for jobs? I'll write directly to different brand recruitment services and try looking for other stuff on gumtree... Any other ideas?
LA StarShooter
Posts: 1,029
Beverly Hills, California, US
London sounds okay and it seems you're going that way. Los Angeles has twelve percent unemployment. Independent films took a beating after the big bank freeze because financing and guarantees became so restrictive. There are crack teams of MUAs and wardrobe virtually crying for work here. There is fashion work here but the big smoke for fashion is NYC.
LA StarShooter wrote: London sounds okay and it seems you're going that way. Los Angeles has twelve percent unemployment. Independent films took a beating after the big bank freeze because financing and guarantees became so restrictive. There are crack teams of MUAs and wardrobe virtually crying for work here. There is fashion work here but the big smoke for fashion is NYC.
L.A. Was neveer that big for fashion really, but I think the OP would do better in London then Toronto. Visa should. It be an issue and Toronto does have to "fight" against NYC for North America and it's not like they are all that far apart. I enjoy Toronto but its not really a choice vs. London.
Funny, Ive thought about moving just to be closer to the bigger jobs so that I can find a great mentor for the next year or so. I actually live 1 hour from NYC, 30 minutes from Philadelphia which is pretty great but not close enough to NYC to be there for a last minute call (with commuter traffic). Anywho, I'd truly love to move to London, even just for a few years to learn, work, grow. Best of luck in your search, what a great adventure! One life girl, so go get yours! If you do ever come to the East Coast, drop me note Dani
Chincha
Posts: 10
Ljubljana, Osrednjeslovenska, Slovenia
Dani Jaye MUA wrote: Funny, Ive thought about moving just to be closer to the bigger jobs so that I can find a great mentor for the next year or so. I actually live 1 hour from NYC, 30 minutes from Philadelphia which is pretty great but not close enough to NYC to be there for a last minute call (with commuter traffic). Anywho, I'd truly love to move to London, even just for a few years to learn, work, grow. Best of luck in your search, what a great adventure! One life girl, so go get yours! If you do ever come to the East Coast, drop me note Dani
Exactly, I feel like I'm young and have so much creative drive and nothing to tie me down (yet)... Finding a mentor would be perfect! Good luck to you on your journey and I'll let you know if I'm ever around!
I think you might want to put an online portfolio together and shop it around to a few agencies here in Toronto to see if you get any bites. Let em know you are thinking of relocating to build your career as a makeup artist. Push agency, in Liberty Village is always open to new artists. They want good work, and your work is impeccable. Even your early attempts with airbrush special fx was print worthy.
I would love to have you here in Toronto, as you know, but try to get a bite from an agency in London, Toronto or any other city you want to get to. See what the market is like ahead of time as much as you can.
Its very competitive but you are a stellar artist. I can see Elite or Sutherland picking you up very fast with a strong port.
Chincha
Posts: 10
Ljubljana, Osrednjeslovenska, Slovenia
Hey Daviiiis
I love your always encouraging words and what a great suggestion! I have three shots planned for the following month that are going to be very interesting and creative so when I get those done I'll try to put together a port of my best work and go fishing
I live within 3 hours of Toronto, and have the USA out of my front window, and just about anywhere I need to be/go in the USA within 30 minutes via Detroit Metro.
I have input from all 3 worlds here.
Given what I know, what I've personally experienced over the last 4 or 5 (that being work, availability, salary vs. living, social climate etc) My vote is Toronto if the visa is possible.
You will have more work and opportunity there presently than those other markets. And you're still able to move about the cabin to anywhere you need to visit (or work Shhhhh) if need be.
And we're not a land of tossers and wankers like I've left back there.
Chincha
Posts: 10
Ljubljana, Osrednjeslovenska, Slovenia
Thanks for your reply JMHSPhoto!
I have decided on a plan and I hope it goes somehow like I planned it. I have some smaller projects booked in London in late fall so I'll be staying in Slovenia for now and fly to London for short periods of time to work on the stuff I have booked.
I found out that I can get a 'working holiday' visa for Canada which allows me to live and work in Toronto for up to one year and since I am already late for this holiday season (the visa processing takes about 2 months) I was thinking of coming to Toronto in feb/march when the market picks up from 'after the holiday' depression. This way I can work all spring, test all summer and be there for the whole holiday madness before I go back after the new year's next year.
Lizzy Borden wrote: i don't know much about the industry, but i would agree london would be your best bet. if nothing else, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive to move (shipping your stuff over), i don't think. and idk about canada, but the economy sucks in the usa and idk if it's that much better up there.
i would think london is doing pretty well economically, what with the olympics having just been there. all that tourism. people may have more money they are willing and able to spend.
Tourism as a money spinner is always massively over-rated.
Having said that there is always work in London. But it is very expensive to live there and it whether what you could earn as an MUA could cover living expenses. My girlfriend modelled there for three years and even earning good money it was difficult: cheapest places to rent are about £600 a month and that's sharing a pokey place.
So whatever you do don't just come. If I was you I'd build up your port and laise with other industry people in London - here on this site would be a good start. Then maybe apply for jobs on cosmetics company counters in places like Selfridges and Harvey Nicholls so you have decent wages to start with. Then maybe start looking for jobs in theatre make-up - write to all the theatres/production companies. All the time build up your fashion connections - but don't look to start with that to support you immediately.
Chincha
Posts: 10
Ljubljana, Osrednjeslovenska, Slovenia
PonyGurlCouture wrote: So whatever you do don't just come. If I was you I'd build up your port and laise with other industry people in London - here on this site would be a good start. Then maybe apply for jobs on cosmetics company counters in places like Selfridges and Harvey Nicholls so you have decent wages to start with. Then maybe start looking for jobs in theatre make-up - write to all the theatres/production companies. All the time build up your fashion connections - but don't look to start with that to support you immediately.
That is exactly what I had in mind... I wouldn't think of just 'showing up' there expecting to get a job. I believe that preparation is key and I'll work hard before moving anywhere, may it be London or Toronto. Thanks for your input!
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