Raw and the cooked wrote: I have had a sudden influx of girls contacting me, love your work,want to shoot with you, yadda yadda,let's do hot nudes. I know people don't always read profiles, but my profile states I am only doing TFP. So despite that, why is it half a dozen messages in they then start asking about money?
Is this a sign of the times? Can a female model be accused of bait and switch, or is it purely a photographer thing?
Comments please!
If this should be in modelling, my bad, but I want to hear from photographers on this, though models are welcome!
It happens.
Decline.
Move on.
See? A lot less effort & drama than starting a thread about a common occurrence.
As I understand it, this newfangled thing called free market capitalism would suggest they do it because it works. If it doesn't work or it stops working, they'll either try a different approach or quit altogether.
I don't think baying at the digital equivalent of a simple advertising circular, or allowing it to raise your blood pressure, is beneficial to anyone. How many nano-seconds does it take to say 'No thanks'?
Just as photographers will inquire about shooting nudes with models who have portfolios marked "no nudes" models will inquire about paid shoots with photographers that have portfolios that say "TF/P Only".
Why? Because there are models whose portfolios say no nudes, and they do shoot nudes with the right photographer, just as there are photographers that say they only shoot TF/P but will pay to shoot the right model.
I don't see it as a bait and switch either way, it's just networking.
WMcK
Posts: 5,183
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
ybfoto wrote: Honestly this isn't a bait and switch either they didn't read your profile or thought that you would be willing to pay them anyways. There are photographers that I know for certain of that say they don't pay models but do on occasion. Just like there are models who say they don't do nudes for TF who would for the right photographer.
A bait and switch would be you going through say an agency paying for
a model then the agency sends a completely different model. That is a bait and switch.
Just tell them thanks for the interest but you simply don't pay models. Don't take it personally or feel like you are being scammed and don't be a ass about it, not that you where, because the model may comeback later with a change if heart, and if she doesn't no biggy.
Yes, it is more a "bait and hook" than a "bait and switch." Their attitude is they get you hooked then mention payment at the last minute when they think it is too late for you to cancel you arrangements, when they think they have you hooked. It has happened several times to me.
Raw and the cooked wrote: I have had a sudden influx of girls contacting me, love your work,want to shoot with you, yadda yadda,let's do hot nudes. I know people don't always read profiles, but my profile states I am only doing TFP. So despite that, why is it half a dozen messages in they then start asking about money?
Is this a sign of the times? Can a female model be accused of bait and switch, or is it purely a photographer thing?
Comments please!
If this should be in modelling, my bad, but I want to hear from photographers on this, though models are welcome!
if a model contacts me and doesn't mention terms then in my response i'll emphasize that it would be a trade shoot (likewise if i contact them first i'll mention TF). they can't bait&switch you if you don't let them!
Jay Farrell
Posts: 12,522
Nashville, Tennessee, US
WMcK wrote: Yes, it is more a "bait and hook" than a "bait and switch." Their attitude is they get you hooked then mention payment at the last minute when they think it is too late for you to cancel you arrangements, when they think they have you hooked. It has happened several times to me.
Which is exactly why you have to remain in control and present the terms before anything else So very true.
I shot model around the Asia area, HK, S Korea, Japan, Thailand, Philippines etc. I never hav a problem with no show or failure to respond. If the are busy or not interested the would still reply and offer alternatives. I had one late by 12 minutes out of 73 shoots. I have tried the market in the Arkansas, Texas and Louisiana region and I communicated with two out of 18 models with professional attitudes.
WMcK
Posts: 5,183
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
twoharts wrote: I LOVE YOUR WORK
is usually the kiss of death. either they'll flake or want you to pay.
It's all familiar. First a Friend Request, then a message "I really love your work" then "could you please help me with my portfolio, but I'm sorry I can't afford to pay you."
The script is very predictable.
You or I are not the only individuals that model is communicating with. Or, at least let's assume that.
In most cases, she is in negotiations with several photographers and there are a wide variety of terms on this site. TF*, Model paying the photographer, Photographer paying the model.
So, she's sent out mass "form" letters hoping to get a response and hoping people will want to pay her. A certain percentage are replying to that communication. She's also communicating with other photographers (not part of the mass email/pm) on a more individual basis, maybe to do TF work...
It's not out of the realm of possibility that she has lost track of who is who. And I highly doubt she would be intimately familiar with the profile info from every photographer she's speaking with.
It's very common. All it takes is a simple response, devoid of any attitude or feeling that she has offended you, that you are only interested in working on a TF* basis but will keep her in mind for future projects...
Of course it's a bait-and-switch but it's not a malicious act. A model is trying to get paid. Thank you...have a nice day. Good luck. No need for the "How DARE she try to get me to pay HER!" sentiment that some are expressing.
some people act like it's against the rules to solicit but i don't think it is? i get solicitations all the time by PM and TAGS (not just for models but for workshops). if it's deemed a problem then mayhem should ban the practice.
Michael Pandolfo wrote: No need for the "How DARE she try to get me to pay HER!" sentiment that some are expressing.
I get it every once and awhile. But now I usually put either I'm willing to pay or trade in the first message/response. It gets everything out of the way quickly.
I had this happen to me recently on the road. I post a casting as a tf that was out there for about a month. Chose the model where we had everything set for over a week. The day before she sends me rates. I respond and ask her if she knew the casting was for a tf shoot. Her response, was "I know, I just wanted to get you interested in me first before I sent my rates." I passed as I would never work with somebody like that.
The sad part was I was staying in a 4000 sq ft house on several acres with studio lighting with me since I was booked before I hit the road where in the end I figure it was her loss. I still wish I would have had time to book other models while I was out there but I was in the city for a wildlife shoot and just didn't have time to book anything else since she waited until the last minute assuming she had me.
Mac Wolff
Posts: 3,659
Litchfield Park, Arizona, US
L Bass wrote: The trick is... eliminate the 'half a dozen messages in' thing.
Example...
First contact from model: 'Love your work,want to shoot with you, yadda yadda,let's do hot nudes.'
First response from you: 'That's great! Assuming that you read my profile carefully before contacting me, and realize that I am ONLY doing trade work (TF) at the moment... what's your schedule like and I'll see what I can do.'
It's happened to me too. The funny ones are the models that state 'no experience' AND 'paying gigs only'... with a port filled with crappy cell phone shots. LOL! [/quote
yeah, seems kind of obvious, but i suppose i have to spell it out from the word go, particularly as we have a lot of Eastern european girls hustling for a buck in London!
Raw and the cooked wrote: I have had a sudden influx of girls contacting me, love your work,want to shoot with you, yadda yadda,let's do hot nudes. I know people don't always read profiles, but my profile states I am only doing TFP. So despite that, why is it half a dozen messages in they then start asking about money?
Is this a sign of the times? Can a female model be accused of bait and switch, or is it purely a photographer thing?
Comments please!?
Models think you are a ATM Machine (or Money Tree) and think just because they do nudes you will pay for it!
Raw and the cooked wrote: I have had a sudden influx of girls contacting me, love your work,want to shoot with you, yadda yadda,let's do hot nudes. I know people don't always read profiles, but my profile states I am only doing TFP. So despite that, why is it half a dozen messages in they then start asking about money?
Is this a sign of the times? Can a female model be accused of bait and switch, or is it purely a photographer thing?
Comments please!
If this should be in modelling, my bad, but I want to hear from photographers on this, though models are welcome!
ignore and go on.
many people believe there is a shortage of models and we must be required to pay
sad day for them when they realize a Modeling career is over if money is your only motivation
V Laroche wrote: Maybe you should corresponding with girls about shooting nudes. Try women, over the age of 18.
Oh my bad, actually I only shoot nekked women over 18, as I don't need a trip to the slammer, thank you! I suppose calling them girls is patronising? in which case I grovel with mortification!
WMcK
Posts: 5,183
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
Michael Pandolfo wrote: Of course it's a bait-and-switch but it's not a malicious act. A model is trying to get paid. Thank you...have a nice day. Good luck. No need for the "How DARE she try to get me to pay HER!" sentiment that some are expressing.
It's not asking for money that's the problem. It is asking for a TFP shoot then changing the terms of the agreement and demanding money at the last minute, usually when the studio and MUA have been booked by the photographer at his own expense and have to be paid for.
People are wonky in general. It's not necessarily a girl thing nor a model thing. It's just the view we get by being photographers.
I had a model contact me just gushing about how she loved my work and asked if I could shoot her in a specific way in a specific place and retouch the photos in a specific way. She knew exactly what she wanted. So I told her I could shoot it easily, but I'd have to hire someone to retouch the photo to get the results she wanted but I could make sure she got what she wanted. So she replied back and sounded very excited, then she quoted me her rates. Yeah, she expected me to pay her to do work for her.
But that's one model out of many. Most have been nothing short of awesome to work with. Everyone has a horror story, even the models.
Erlinda
Posts: 5,757
London, England, United Kingdom
WMcK wrote:
It's not asking for money that's the problem. It is asking for a TFP shoot then changing the terms of the agreement and demanding money at the last minute, usually when the studio and MUA have been booked by the photographer at his own expense and have to be paid for.
Ummm from what I've read from the OP the model never said lets shoot TFP, they say awesome work lets shoot together and the OP assumes that she is talking about TFP. The model never stated tfp or paid from what I've read so far.
Ummm from what I've read from the OP the model never said lets shoot TFP, they say awesome work lets shoot together and the OP assumes that she is talking about TFP. The model never stated tfp or paid from what I've read so far.
I always reply stating tfp, but they either don't know know the term and don't ask, or just ignore it, and carry on ' negotiating' later. i am cutting them some slack on account of English not being a first language, but I am sadly going to have to dumb down, and use capitals and really SPELL IT OUT!
Erlinda
Posts: 5,757
London, England, United Kingdom
Raw and the cooked wrote:
I always reply stating tfp, but they either don't know know the term and don't ask, or just ignore it, and carry on ' negotiating' later. i am cutting them some slack on account of English not being a first language, but I am sadly going to have to dumb down, and use capitals and really SPELL IT OUT!
So very true.
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