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ever feel like your hands are tied ?????
Recently I worked with a photographer on a creative beauty, and this photographer made the parameters so large as to what i couldnt do or what she didnt want or things she didnt want me to use , i felt totally stiffled as an artist . Very frustrating as her inspirations were all over the map , i feel completly confused and now she is asking for sketches of what im going to do lol VERY Frustrating as an artist becouse it kills any of the organic quality and "magic that happens in a shoot The weird thing is we have worked on several shoots and they have all been a smashing sucess without all the parameters and lol skecthes just feeling frustraded and like my hands are tied and not sure how to deal with this and this isnt like a runway show where im creating 1 makeup across the board this is a 6 to 8 page beauty story you guys ever feel like this ........ i also get as an artist itsmy job to work within certain goal looks but with no clear references and all these dont use this and dont use that , im frustraded and feeling totally stiffled Sep 16 12 08:52 am Link It sounds odd, since you've worked with this person, very successful before. I'd suggest you sit down with them and discuss your concerns. Make sure you're both on the same page. This sounds like a communication issue. It may be you might need to do a test run so you both see and agree on the approach. I'd suggest that if you feel you can't provide the type of work with the requirements the photographer has given you that you walk away. It sounds like a great project but if you're not understanding the photographer or feel they are stifling your work, then there's a better than even chance you'll not have a successful shoot. I find that situations like this can go south quickly from misunderstandings on both parts. Sep 16 12 09:23 am Link I personally never feel like that because I will take suggestions from My makeup artist, Models, lighting tech, assistant, passer by that just happens to be perving on my shoot. I don't care where the idea comes from as long as i think it will help the shoot, I will use it. I would give your photographer a call or sit down over coffee, tea, milk, beverage of your choice and discuss it. I don't know anyone out there who is going to get pissed because you tell them how you are feeling. Sep 16 12 09:37 am Link Treat it like a real world job. Sometimes you have to follow the layout or Art Director's ideas. Sounds like this might be a test to see, if you have what it takes to work on a paying gig. If you can't deliver, perhaps you don't? Sep 16 12 09:49 am Link I have definitely felt this way. When a photographer gives me TOO MANY directions as to what they want, I feel paranoid about pleasing them and fitting the exact mold that they have in their head. And this definitely takes away such a huge part of our job which is bringing the creativity and ideas for makeup to the project. Of course, there are always certain things that the creative director or photographer is looking for, it's just when it gets to be too many edits that the creation is gone. If it's a paid gig, obviously suck it up and get that money If it's a test, it might be worth moving on, depending on the relationship you feel you're building with the photographer. Sep 16 12 10:39 am Link Innovative Imagery wrote: Seriously? - "a test to see, if you have what it takes to work on a paying gig." Sep 16 12 12:18 pm Link For serious beauty series a sketch is a very welcome item before shooting. It is better than application then refusal. Some do some don't. I appreciated those who sketched out the colour plans before we start. I can't say if it is limited but it is reassuring. Just like pictures, it's only a map, sometimes the best destinations are found after leaving the direct path. Sep 16 12 12:34 pm Link Innovative Imagery wrote: I treat all jobs like a paying job wether or not it is Sep 16 12 12:46 pm Link It happens both way Anthony, I just spent over 10 hours retouching images where we had very specific layouts as to what was required for the looks for the llamas. I have gathered tear sheets that showed the skin, the lips, the eyes, even the eyebrows in a separate tearsheet to show the exact look we are trying to put together. The make up artist decided that she was going to ignore all that and do what she wanted. The last time I saw the llamas I said you'll be blending that contouring in yes because it's too heavy, she said yes. I leave the room for 20 to 30 minutes to continue setting up for the lights and props and when I get back she is covered the entire llamas face with pink pigment. This is something that is not easily removable, nor did we have the time to start over since she had taken almost 3 hours to complete this look. Because of this I know longer cared what was done with the second llama. In the end the art director cut the second llama from the photo spread completely stating that the make up was so different than the tear sheets he had approved that he was not going to publish the images. We ended up we shooting that llama on a different day at considerable expense to myself since I had to take final responsibility and pay for the reshoot. The images on the main llama were not able to be re shot because of the cost involved, so I had to spend several hours per image removing the make up and then reapplying makeup digitally to create what the art director had requested. I'm only mentioning this to show that it can go both ways, where a make up artist can be frustrated what the photographer is communicating or not communicating, and by photographers having make up artist completely ignore the direction given and doing whatever they feel like because that's what they want to do that day. After the shoot the art director pretty much yelled at me for over an hour about the fact that I had no control over the make up artist. If that's something that is happened to the photographer that you're dealing with recently, though obviously not with the production that she worked with you on, that may be why she is being overly cautious on this shoot Please forgive the numerous typos I'm sure are here I'm on my iPhone and using Siri to dictate had to Sep 16 12 12:48 pm Link Did the photographer pay you/ hired you for a specific look-style ?? if so the photographer would pay you for what he/ she wants, not what you want to try ? seems like if you and this photographer has worked together successfully on shoots before ? maybe you need to ask them what has changed ? good luck always best to keep a working relation with clients if possible. Sep 16 12 12:57 pm Link PDF IMAGES PHOTOGRAPHY wrote: No the magazine hired us and is paying , they have been so happy with our collaborations they keep hiring us. Sep 16 12 01:11 pm Link Hate it when that happens.... specifically vague direction is the worst. I stared at a music director, just blinking as he rattled off all the opposing adjectives that were my *direction*. So, I did playback and repeated his direction in order to be certain I had heard him correctly. It was his turn to blink as he realized the context of his own instructions. Then, just said that I'd do fine and he trusted me... and let it go at that. Unfortunately, I have seen this tactic be used to abdicate responsibility for the design to someone else further down the food chain. THAT is the most un-cool part. Sep 16 12 01:26 pm Link It happens, and I find it so frustrating. I always take the onus of the situation on myself in clarifying with the AD. As in, "I want to be sure I'm understanding you correctly...What I heard you say...I would like to maximize my planning for this project so we get the best result, so will x,y,z be appropriate?" Make it about my lack of understanding and wanting to do the best job for them instead of the AD being confusing. Ultimately it's their call, but if they ask for something I am sure will not work, I suggest, explaining why, an alternative that will bring about the vision in a satisfying way. Sorry this project is stifling in some way, it sounds like...hate when the creative juices are impeded, but it's the nature of the biz that it happens at times. Sep 16 12 01:54 pm Link Lisa Berczel wrote: Lol Riggggghhht ! Frustrating Sep 16 12 03:12 pm Link Yeh i hear ya. I was brought in for a theatre version of The Aristocrats. He said he wanted bruising effects and a pasty look. And the iving dead, when the father passes away and rises or something I recall. Pasty look. So I bought some terrible whipped foundation to turn a summer glow into an Irish winter dull and of course, the actor didnt like it. She wanted to be Beeyootifull. Not the role, which was an anemic, burned out woman, but glam Or US! Go figure. I left the gig after teaching the leads how to do their own death, bruise and pasty look. I took an artistic directors payoff and split. Not as difficult but as pleasant as a mosquito buzzing your left ear in a tent, was the model who showed up recently in her own foundation applied poorly, who said it was the only one she could wear thank you very much. So I put foundation over foundation and found myself explaining to the AD how she was....not a stellar moment. Sep 16 12 04:15 pm Link Innovative Imagery wrote: yea.... I'm sure this is it.... The photographer just isn't sure Anthony is ready for a real gig... take away his portfolio, years of experience in the industry, his great reputation and her prior personal experience of working with him and what else does she have to go on? it's risky.... Sep 16 12 10:13 pm Link TheMakeupMan wrote: I could be wrong, but it sounds like the client is pressuring the photographer to get this done in one day. Sep 17 12 05:16 am Link I've felt it as a photographer when working with a clothing designer and they wanted everything exactly 'this way'. But I just figure it's their shoot. This has always been my main reasoning for not going full-time though, I hate always having to work to an exact brief. I hated it when I was doing my course, having to show exactly what I was going to be doing and why and when and where etc. I just don't work that way. Other people, however, love working that way. If it's my shoot.. I do it my way. If it's a shoot for someone else, I'll do it their way. Sep 17 12 05:21 pm Link i think its been covered plenty of times above but yes this happens quite a lot and is becoming more and more common when you have commercial gigs. You have everyone wanting more for less and cramming more into one day. This has happened to me and i just make it known t the AD before the shoot that a) there is a real possibility that we will all run over with time due to the complexity and sheer number of "looks" and prepping we need to do to keep our quality the same. and as a result a real possibility that overtime needs to be accounted for and paid. ( i have found in the past when they try to cram two days work into one we all end up running out of time and spend 16 hours plus doing what is needed to get the job done so in the end you have pretty much done two days in one and needs to be planned for) b) photographer is probably feeling the pressure from up above and is trying to micromanage everyone in the hope of everything going to plan and delivering. Just reassure her that we can do i and we can all make it happen. Make those drawings or a mood board and get her to sign off on them. If thats what she needs then so be it. c) on the day if everything is running manic or if the looks she wants are not working just say so, i always tactifully tell them this look isnt working but what i CAN do is this and it will work great. usually they just say yes go for it and i end up being creative and getting the job done. it is stressful no matter how old you are or how long you been doing it. we all hate it when people dont communicate things properly. Just try to get things done as best as you can and the rest will be up to chance. Anthony you have always been amazing and you are an inspiration for me and i know you will be fine. lol You have always offered great advice when anyone else asks and i am truly privileged to have you as company on mm. Sep 17 12 09:10 pm Link I have been in situations like this and agree that a talk is required to clarify the situation. Having seen this happen on both sides, I have talked to photographers who have given a brief that is broad enough to give leeway or specific enough that the artist just needed to work its a tricky one. Talk and lay out some plans broach the subject carefully and see what can be achieved. Good luck. Sep 18 12 01:56 am Link TheMakeupMan wrote: Maybe the magazine asked for it. Sep 19 12 11:38 pm Link |