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123last
Photographer
1873 Images
Posts: 335
Binghamton, New York, US


A number of times I've started communicating with new models to set up shoots and within a few days they've pulled their profiles.  Typically it's with models that indicate they will shoot nudes.  I know some get into this thinking it's easy money and quickly find out the truth.  But I've also seen enough other threads and heard from models that they get all kinds of offers to porn, nudes when they have no nudes checked in their ports,m escort work, web cam gigs etc. I suspect that many of them leave MM quickly becuase they conclude that is what MM is all about.  Just wondering if this is pretty prevelant or if it's infrequent.
Sep 18 12 02:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photographe
Posts: 2,350
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


If anything, I find it's llamas not willing to shoot nudes that are disappearing on me.

After talking shop with someone over a few days, I offered a paid job to them, wearing leggings and a vest top and I got back a pm asking me if it was ok to wear denim hotpants and a T-shirt. She presumably didn't feel comfortable wearing leggings. I wrote back explaining why denim hotpants would not work and then the trail went dead. Wasn't even swimwear or lingerie, only bare arms, but this was beyond her level. I try to be understanding, but I'm sitting here thinking "not llama".

An agency would be in consternation about this story, if one of their llamas turned down a paid job by refusing to wear the outfit and then simply ignored the client. But this is MM, where you can do one thing, say another, post another entirely.

Probably yes, a lot of llamas are getting offers for erotic and adult work and it disgusts them. Also people seem to be ramming the point home that nude is a moneymaker.
Sep 18 12 02:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
1873 Images
Posts: 335
Binghamton, New York, US


Rollo David Snook wrote:
Probably yes, a lot of models are getting offers for erotic and adult work and it disgusts them. Also people seem to be ramming the point home that nude is a moneymaker.

I am lead to believe that this problem is rampant.  I would like to validate that with evidence from models who have or have not experineced this personally.

Sep 18 12 02:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photographe
Posts: 2,350
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


Well I just notice when a model posts a topic like "Do I have to do nude", that people, some of them jaded, can't resist the "yes you do hun, you will never be anything, never make any money unless you do art nude". It comes across as almost desperate in some people, in some people it comes across as the voice of experience. Either way, I think it's obviously too much pressure for some people, who may already be battling with unconvinced boyfriends, families etc.

It's unimaginative and incorrect to ram this down newbies throats and is not backed up by evidence in the real world.

My friend is overweight, has stretch marks, funny teeth, is 5'6" and she is making lots of money modelling and is almost famous these days, but she was trained properly, put herself in a good position and when she was told she could never be a model in the UK, she didn't give up.
Sep 18 12 02:58 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Shaz111
Posts: 82
London, England, United Kingdom


[After talking shop with someone over a few days, I offered a paid job to them, wearing leggings and a vest top and I got back a pm asking me if it was ok to wear denim hotpants and a T-shirt. She presumably didn't feel comfortable wearing leggings. I wrote back explaining why denim hotpants would not work and then the trail went dead. Wasn't even swimwear or lingerie, only bare arms, but this was beyond her level. I try to be understanding, but I'm sitting here thinking "not llama".]

Rollo, you dont think its just that she didnt have leggings and a vest top? If she needed to buy it, she wouldnt make any money on the shoot. She presumably owns a pair of denim hotpants and a Tshirt, but no nice leggings and vest top....
Sep 18 12 03:03 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photographe
Posts: 2,350
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


Obviously I would have provided brand new clothing, it would have cost less than one hour's modelling, but you could be 100% right, however that would be equally disappointing for the same reasons, a person is trading as a model, but obviously has never asked a model agent how to take bookings.

That is news to me, that models are expected to pay for wardrobe to client's needs.
Sep 18 12 03:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
1873 Images
Posts: 335
Binghamton, New York, US


Rollo David Snook wrote:
Well I just notice when a model posts a topic like "Do I have to do nude", that people, some of them jaded, can't resist the "yes you do hun, you will never be anything, never make any money unless you do art nude". It comes across as almost desperate in some people, in some people it comes across as the voice of experience. Either way, I think it's obviously too much pressure for some people, who may already be battling with unconvinced boyfriends, families etc.

This isn't the point, a model asking about doing nudes is very different than saying you do them and then getting inundated with offers to do porn, escort work etc.

Rollo David Snook wrote:
It's unimaginative and incorrect to ram this down newbies throats and is not backed up by evidence in the real world.

Agreed that it's wrong to push someone to do something they aren't comfortable with, the point of the thread is to see if there what evidence there is of this happening with what frequency.  I don't think photographers can really supply this type of information.  Granted a model posting his/her experience here is not going to be a scientific sample but it will at least be objective evidence and not hearsay.

Sep 18 12 03:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
1873 Images
Posts: 335
Binghamton, New York, US


Rollo David Snook wrote:
Obviously I would have provided brand new clothing, it would have cost less than one hour's modelling, but you could be 100% right, however that would be equally disappointing for the same reasons, a person is trading as a model, but obviously has never asked a model agent how to take bookings.

That is news to me, that models are expected to pay for wardrobe to client's needs.

How is this related to the topic?

Sep 18 12 03:22 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Shaz111
Posts: 82
London, England, United Kingdom


I'm sure every single model on MM gets offers for porn etc when they sign up, just don't understand why you would pull your profile over it, just say no/yes or don't respond and move on...

I think profiles are pulled because many dont really it through before posting, it doesnt cost anything to post a profile and might look like a bit of fun until you realize its actually going to mean that you have to work on it to get jobs.
Sep 18 12 03:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23,363
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


1873 Images wrote:
A number of times I've started communicating with new models to set up shoots and within a few days they've pulled their profiles.  Typically it's with models that indicate they will shoot nudes.  I know some get into this thinking it's easy money and quickly find out the truth.  But I've also seen enough other threads and heard from models that they get all kinds of offers to porn, nudes when they have no nudes checked in their ports etc. I suspect that many of them leave MM quickly becuase of this.  Just wondering if this is pretty prevelant or if it's infrequent.

Gonna be kind of hard for models that have pulled their profiles to respond in this thread, or for models that have decided to stay to speak for why a model that has left would leave.

Sep 18 12 03:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
1873 Images
Posts: 335
Binghamton, New York, US


Image K wrote:
Gonna be kind of hard for models that have pulled their profiles to respond in this thread, or for models that have decided to stay to speak for why a model that has left would leave.

I guess I need to be clearer, my question isn't why you'd pull your profile, the question is how wide spread is the problem, thus the title of the OP.  Everyone was a newbie once and would be able to share if it happened and if so was it prevelant or infrequent for him or her.

Sep 18 12 03:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23,363
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


1873 Images wrote:

I guess I need to be clearer, my question isn't why you'd pull your profile, the question is how wide spread is the problem, thus the title of the OP.  Everyone was a newbie once.

Yeah, I get the title...but in your OP, you seem to strongly believe that many newbies leave the site because of inappropriate offers...and want to validate that belief using the experiences of those that have decided to stay.

How can those that have decided to stay validate your belief that newbies are leaving/have left because of the proliferation of inappropriate offers?

Sep 18 12 03:46 am  Link  Quote 
Model
_Rei_
Posts: 124
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia


I get offered two kinds of work here. The kind I'm interested in doing, and the kind I'm not. When I signed up to MM, I didn't expect that every offer that came my way would interest me and that I'd have to spend at least some of my time here saying "No" politely.

I do get offers of work that goes beyond the limits of what I'm willing to shoot. They're usually no more or less polite than anyone else messaging me here. A long time ago I learnt to use a template of sorts to save time - something like, "Dear X, Thank you for your interest but I'm not currently shooting that genre of work blah blah blah." I've never had anyone get nasty in response to this (yet).

I've not found MM to be any worse for this kind of thing than any other modelling portfolio site. Learning how to turn down work you don't want is a part of freelancing - the people that get freaked out by this and pull their profiles quickly probably aren't cut out for it.
Sep 18 12 03:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
1873 Images
Posts: 335
Binghamton, New York, US


Image K wrote:

Yeah, I get the title...but in your OP, you seem to strongly believe that many newbies leave the site because of inappropriate offers...and want to validate that belief using the experiences of those that have decided to stay.

How can those that have decided to stay validate your belief that newbies are leaving/have left because of the proliferation of inappropriate offers?

I don't think I stated that I strongly believe newbies leave the site because of this.  Newbies leaving was the seed crystal that got me wondering if this was a frequent occurrence.  Everyone was a newbie once and would have experience (possibly) with getting inappropriate offers.

Sep 18 12 03:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


Shaz111 wrote:
I'm sure every single model on MM gets offers for porn etc when they sign up, just don't understand why you would pull your profile over it, just say no/yes or don't respond and move on...

I think profiles are pulled because many dont really it through before posting, it doesnt cost anything to post a profile and might look like a bit of fun until you realize its actually going to mean that you have to work on it to get jobs.

I think Shaz is right.

To a certain extent the site is self-selecting when it comes to success or failure.

Sep 18 12 04:00 am  Link  Quote 
Model
SanctiRakkaus
Posts: 1
Denver, Colorado, US


I honestly have gotten the least amount of offers to do anything of a pornographic nature on MM compared to other sites. I'm new to modeling, but I'm more comfortable shooting nude than having to figure out how to pose to have clothing lay right. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea...
Sep 18 12 04:00 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
hbutz New York
Posts: 3,147
New York, New York, US


There is no such thing as an "Inappropriate offer" provided it's a paid gig and both the model and photographer agree on the content.
Sep 18 12 04:10 am  Link  Quote 
Model
_Rei_
Posts: 124
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia


hbutz New York wrote:
There is no such thing as an "Inappropriate offer" provided it's a paid gig and both the model and photographer agree on the content.

I'm assuming by "inappropriate" the OP means an offer for the sort of work that a model's profile has stated she doesn't do. Whether this means nude, or spreads or photoshopping someone to look like a fairy, it doesn't really matter.

I don't get more offended by the small amount of adult work I get offered (maybe 5% of total offers at the very most) than I do by brand-new photographers who want me to do a TFP shoot with caution tape. It's all just work I'm not interested in - and I can't blame them for asking in case I'm one of the billion people on here who says they do one thing, then do another.

Sep 18 12 04:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
1873 Images
Posts: 335
Binghamton, New York, US


_Rei_ wrote:
I'm assuming by "inappropriate" the OP means an offer for the sort of work that a model's profile has stated she doesn't do. Whether this means nude, or spreads or photoshopping someone to look like a fairy, it doesn't really matter.

I don't get more offended by the small amount of adult work I get offered (maybe 5% of total offers at the very most) than I do by brand-new photographers who want me to do a TFP shoot with caution tape. It's all just work I'm not interested in - and I can't blame them for asking in case I'm one of the billion people on here who says they do one thing, then do another.

By definition "porn" is not allowed on MM so therefore I would think that to be inappropriate for here.  Yes I am referring to work that the model clearly states she doesn't want to do.

Sep 18 12 04:27 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MilliNY
Posts: 4
Brooklyn, New York, US


Image K wrote:

Yeah, I get the title...but in your OP, you seem to strongly believe that many newbies leave the site because of inappropriate offers...and want to validate that belief using the experiences of those that have decided to stay.

How can those that have decided to stay validate your belief that newbies are leaving/have left because of the proliferation of inappropriate offers?

ever hear of ambien?

Sep 18 12 04:34 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Love_mya
Posts: 276
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


1873 Images wrote:
A number of times I've started communicating with new models to set up shoots and within a few days they've pulled their profiles.  Typically it's with models that indicate they will shoot nudes.  I know some get into this thinking it's easy money and quickly find out the truth.  But I've also seen enough other threads and heard from models that they get all kinds of offers to porn, nudes when they have no nudes checked in their ports,m escort work, web cam gigs etc. I suspect that many of them leave MM quickly becuase they conclude that is what MM is all about.  Just wondering if this is pretty prevelant or if it's infrequent.

im not sure if you mean this; but when i first started (not on MM) but decided i would like to try out modelling, i saw an advert online in one of the forums (can't remember the name) looking for adult modelling, i had no idea what "adult" modelling ment but i thought i'll email and find out, after sending a few shots of myself (fully clothes) the assistant contacted me quickly via email (around 10pm at night) said that she was interested in my looks and would love to see me asap. we got to chatting via email, as she wanted to call me that night-which i refused. She said, i had the perfect look and body for adult modelling, i asked her about what sort of modelling she was organising, she gave me little details on the sort of modelling, but insisted i come the next day to the shoot which would be at 8pm, the photographer will pick me up in his car, and we go to a hotel, and he will make me feel relax -and i will be at ease with him..i was alittle unsure about this idea, and told her, im not interested in sex or porn shoots, and she tried to reassure me that other models dont have a problem with it or dont complain, i told her im not an 18year girl and she goes on to question whether i have sex cos i was 30 or i cant get a root etc.. i was so angry and she stated that "photography is dead and the only way to make it into modelling is to do video photography and adult modelling" - i asked another photographer about this, and he said, yes- you have to sleep with the photographer if you want to be successful. i am no longer friends or talking with this photographer as he gave me bad advice..

Sep 18 12 07:08 am  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
ArtistryImage
Posts: 2,706
Washington, District of Columbia, US


1873 Images wrote:
A number of times I've started communicating with new llamas to set up shoots

Did they initiate the contact? 

Typically only respond to queries... find that if the talent is interested enough in initiating contact it indicates they have done due diligence and are sincere about collaboration...

might consider switching to a passive mode...  works for me...

Sep 18 12 07:30 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Dekilah
Posts: 4,868
Detroit, Michigan, US


I shoot nudes. Something I do not shoot is public nudes. Says so right in my profile: "just no trespassing or public nudity, please." I still frequently get offers asking me to shoot nude in parks or to go to abandoned building to shoot nudes. I know "everybody else" does it, I know some models have no problems with it, and I do not care what they do, but I do not do it. If someone suggests it, I nicely explain that I do not do that and explain why briefly (basically the potential legal issues are too big a risk for me and I have a perfect record).

Also, if you look at my portfolio you can see that I shoot pretty tame nudes. No girl/girl or couples stuff, no spreads, etc. Now I realize that some girls do not show everything they shoot. So if I am asked to do these things I politely decline. But 9 times out of 10 they come back trying to convince me to do it either by offering to crop out my face or offering me more money or telling me it is not that big a deal or throwing out some more popular models' names and telling me they do it, etc.

Now I am pretty nice and I think I come across as having my act together and being somewhat smart. So if they are pushing with somebody like me, I can only imagine what they do with girls who are less assertive.

And so I always try to tell newer models that they really need to learn what their limits are and learn to be assertive (but not rude) in sticking to them. I think most of them do the "smile and nod" and just forget what I say.

So yes, it is an issue, but it is an issue that I feel needs to be approached from multiple directions.
Sep 18 12 08:11 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jordan Bunniie
Posts: 1,624
Los Angeles, California, US


Yes. Its pretty common on this site. Youre a new female model, you will get 100s of offers for porn, webcams, escort services, hell even screwing the emailer for $ cos thats all they think of models on here. That dies down but never stops entirely.

I get emails on a regular basis asking me to do porn and my profile is no longer new. Luckily those offers are far surpassed by the legit ones.
Sep 18 12 09:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,212
Salem, Oregon, US


can't you CAM these folks and get them kicked off? or do they just pop up under a new name? kind of like whack-a-mole. just seems like you shouldn't be able to cast here for things that aren't allowed here.

Jordan Bunniie wrote:
Yes. Its pretty common on this site. Youre a new female model, you will get 100s of offers for porn, webcams, escort services, hell even screwing the emailer for $ cos thats all they think of models on here. That dies down but never stops entirely.

I get emails on a regular basis asking me to do porn and my profile is no longer new. Luckily those offers are far surpassed by the legit ones.

Sep 18 12 09:11 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miss AY
Posts: 8,164
Portland, Maine, US


twoharts wrote:
can't you CAM these folks and get them kicked off? or do they just pop up under a new name? kind of like whack-a-mole. just seems like you shouldn't be able to cast here for things that aren't allowed here.


It's just a big game of whack-a-mole. One profile gets taken down, there are 2 more waiting to pop right back up.

Sep 18 12 09:12 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jordan Bunniie
Posts: 1,624
Los Angeles, California, US


twoharts wrote:
can't you CAM these folks and get them kicked off? or do they just pop up under a new name? kind of like whack-a-mole. just seems like you shouldn't be able to cast here for things that aren't allowed here.


I do CAM the offers for adult work however, CAMing them only goes so far. Some of these guys just make another profile and try again.

Sep 18 12 09:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,212
Salem, Oregon, US


zivity requires that both models and photographers submit paperwork to join. maybe mayhem should do something similar.

Augustine York wrote:
It's just a big game of whack-a-mole. One profile gets taken down, there are 2 more waiting to pop right back up.

Sep 18 12 09:22 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miss AY
Posts: 8,164
Portland, Maine, US


twoharts wrote:
zivity requires that both models and photographers submit paperwork to join. maybe mayhem should do something similar.


I don't think they ever would. They want big membership numbers, putting up a roadblock of requiring paperwork would grind that to a halt.

Sep 18 12 09:23 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 27,003
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Shaz111 wrote:
I'm sure every single model on MM gets offers for porn etc when they sign up, just don't understand why you would pull your profile over it, just say no/yes or don't respond and move on...

I think profiles are pulled because many dont really it through before posting, it doesnt cost anything to post a profile and might look like a bit of fun until you realize its actually going to mean that you have to work on it to get jobs.

When I first signed up, for at least 6 months, the majority of my inbox was as follows

-Porn
-thinly veiled porn
-offers for something else that turned into porn as the conversation went on
-people with no portfolio/references
-people really freaking far away
-legit but stupid offers
-legit good offers that i actually took


I was 17.

A LOT of newbies are young. A lot of newbies havent tried doing any sort of business online before. Being bombarded with unappealing offers would naturally lead a newbie to believe "well if thats all Im going to get, whats the point?" and pull their profile.

One of the first places I went when I signed up was into the forums. I saw other people complaining of those types of messages, and I saw that there were a lot of other people (models and photographers) who were on their side and proof that once you weed through the bullshit you could actually maybe get somewhere. So I stayed around and ignored the offers I didnt want, CAMed the ones I could, and eventually made it to round two and set up some good shoots that helped build my portfolio.  The website has a huge membership, only a very small percentage even see the forums much less participate in them. Theres no banner that pops up over your inbox when youre a newbie that says "HANG IN THERE, IT GETS BETTER! ITS NOT ALL POV "artistic" PORN!".

Sep 18 12 12:54 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Koryn
Posts: 35,819
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I did not receive that many offers at all - appropriate or otherwise - when I first joined.

As the quality of my portfolio improved, I received more messages/solicitations overall, for all kinds of work. Occasionally there would be a sketchy one in there. I was never really spammed much for explicit porno offers on MM. It's only happened a few times in the 5 years I've been on here - though I have received lots of them through other networking sites.

MM has never been a problem for that sort of thing, not when I was newbie, and not after I had acquired some years of experience either.
Sep 18 12 01:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Alabaster Crowley
Posts: 7,056
Tucson, Arizona, US


I've never had any inappropriate offers. (Not including offers from people who were not good.)

Am I not sexy sad
Sep 18 12 03:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Scanlon
Posts: 788
Encino, California, US


Alabaster Crowley wrote:
I've never had any inappropriate offers. (Not including offers from people who were not good.)

Am I not sexy sad

If you haven't you will probably get some now (or maybe already) smile

Sep 18 12 03:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Alabaster Crowley
Posts: 7,056
Tucson, Arizona, US


Brian Scanlon wrote:

If you haven't you will probably get some now (or maybe already) smile

Oh no! That wasn't a request tongue

Sep 18 12 03:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MatureModelMM
Posts: 922
Detroit, Michigan, US


I think there is a lot more of it going on than people are telling about. I am 60 years old and get those kinds of offers, so I can only imagine what some of the younger llamas are getting in their messages. I can understand why some beginners might quickly leave in frustration.

Within a few days of starting here on MM I received at least half a dozen offers that were inappropriate, including such things as medical fetish scenes in which the "model" plays nurse or patient and has sex with the doctor; and POV scenes in which the photographer has sex with the llama while filming it.

These are far beyond the normal art nudes and erotic types of work allowed here. Since then I have not had as many such requests, but still get one every few weeks.

I realize this is not unique to llama Mayhem nor to llamaing in general. Having llamaed nude locally for 25 years, I am used to hearing some occasional requests for very explicit work but never has it been so boldly presented as it is here.
Sep 18 12 03:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kelleth
Posts: 2,505
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I've definitely gotten weird offers on this site but never enough to scare me away!
Sep 18 12 05:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,790
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I've gotten a couple offers to do porn and CAM'ed them.

And then I've gotten offers to 'let's do some other 'stuff' after the shoot', which is all fine and dandy if you're two consenting adults, but that's not my cup of tea.

When I first started my profile I got a SHIT TON of messages from newbies offering to 'help me build my port' and to 'get me better images than I already had'.

I just laughed and told them no thanks.
Sep 18 12 06:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
My Dreams Gia
Posts: 29
Chicago, Illinois, US


1873 Images wrote:
A number of times I've started communicating with new models to set up shoots and within a few days they've pulled their profiles.  Typically it's with models that indicate they will shoot nudes.  I know some get into this thinking it's easy money and quickly find out the truth.  But I've also seen enough other threads and heard from models that they get all kinds of offers to porn, nudes when they have no nudes checked in their ports,m escort work, web cam gigs etc. I suspect that many of them leave MM quickly becuase they conclude that is what MM is all about.  Just wondering if this is pretty prevelant or if it's infrequent.

I don't even do nudes, and I have gotten some offers. A paid foot modeling shoot. Right before the shoot on my way, the photographer and I chatted, he told me he will massage my feet and thighs before the shoot, to "prep me." I was on my way by myself to see him, and decided this sounded a little too much. -_- since when do I need a massage right before a shoot, especially up my thigh area near my private. Really!!??

Sep 18 12 06:39 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Koryn
Posts: 35,819
Boston, Massachusetts, US


MatureModelMM wrote:
I think there is a lot more of it going on than people are telling about. I am 60 years old and get those kinds of offers, so I can only imagine what some of the younger llamas are getting in their messages.

I actually think the reverse it true. As years have gone by, and I've gotten older, I've gotten MORE requests for hard content.

I think the general mentality is that women over 25 or 27 start getting "desperate" for work, and are more likely to shoot explicit material. Obviously, I don't think age has anything to do with what we choose to shoot, one way or another, but I did notice that when the rates I could get for basic girly-erotic work started to decline (when I was about 28 or so), the offers for hard content started to increase, on other sites, around that same time.

Sep 18 12 06:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
hgldhlhgfh
Posts: 576
Dumont d'Urville - permanent station of France, Sector claimed by France, Antarctica


Sep 18 12 06:58 pm  Link  Quote 
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