So, having just adopted a precious Pit Bull rescue dog, I'm beginning to educate myself on breed specific legislation. Now, it doesn't exist here in AZ (from my research...) but I'm shocked that tons of places require ANY Pit Bull to be muzzled at all times in public!
With all due respect for safety, discriminating against an entire breed seems illogical and upsets me. My own home town states:
"all owner-keepers shall ensure that the pit bull is either (a) wearing a muzzle and adequately and securely led and leashed by a person with the clear ability to physically control/restrain the leashed pit bull, or, (b) in a secure temporary enclosure."
Looking to see if this is common elsewhere from people's experience and their thoughts. I've never seen a dog being walked with a muzzle so I'm not sure if it's actually enforced.
Unfortunately, with all the bad breeders out there that aren't taking proper care of their "pets", those breeds of dogs, even though they're mostly harmless, get discriminated against. It's not the dog, it's the people.
The biggest advice I can give you- is to stop letting it tick you off, because there will ALWAYS be something there to do that/that you don't like. Just enjoy the fact that you no longer live in Worcester, and don't have to deal with putting a muzzle on your dog!
With that said, there were probably enough attacks/something to cause them to put that law into effect, i always try to look at everything from both sides.
SPierce Photography wrote: Unfortunately, with all the bad breeders out there that aren't taking proper care of their "pets", those breeds of dogs, even though they're mostly harmless, get discriminated against. It's not the dog, it's the people.
The biggest advice I can give you- is to stop letting it tick you off, because there will ALWAYS be something there to do that/that you don't like. Just enjoy the fact that you no longer live in Worcester, and don't have to deal with putting a muzzle on your dog!
With that said, there were probably enough attacks/something to cause them to put that law into effect, i always try to look at everything from both sides.
I do see exactly what you are saying but I can't completely just turn away because I see bigger consequences of this than just the actual restrictions.
Shelters and pounds are overflowing with this breed because no one will even consider them for adoption- often because of legislation like this and misconceptions about the bred. It's resulting in dogs having to be put down because of this unfair prejudice. My dog waiting half a year to find a home for example.
It really has a big impact on a huge number of animals
Piscis Noctis wrote: Where to draw the line in the categorical discrimination game is always a tricky subject.
(me *waves to the former sandiegan)
Hi
Solacium wrote:
I do see exactly what you are saying but I can't completely just turn away because I see bigger consequences of this than just the actual restrictions.
Shelters and pounds are overflowing with this breed because no one will even consider them for adoption- often because of legislation like this and misconceptions about the bred. It's resulting in dogs having to be put down because of this unfair prejudice. My dog waiting half a year to find a home for example.
It really has a big impact on a huge number of animals
I know. However, you aren't going to be able to change it and it'll eat away at you. Changes do need to be made, yes, but through a proper channel, not just going against a legislation and getting frustrated at it. Concentrate on changing the larger populations perception through education instead. Youre creative- you will figure something out
For example- I was attacked by a German Shepherd when I was small. It chased me half way around the neighborhood, and ran up and through an electric fence to get to me; It wasn't phased in the least. I have nothing against them, but they still scare the freaking hell out of me and I cringe whenever I see one coming up the street. I've no doubt it thought it was protecting its family; even though I was walking up to the house to get candy-it was Halloween night
I'm sure, for that family, the dog was very sweet and loving.
I have no idea what happened to it afterwards, but I can tell you I never saw the dog again.
Piscis Noctis wrote: Where to draw the line in the categorical discrimination game is always a tricky subject.
(me *waves to the former sandiegan)
Hi
I know. However, you aren't going to be able to change it and it'll eat away at you. Changes do need to be made, yes, but through a proper channel, not just going against a legislation and getting frustrated at it. Concentrate on changing the larger populations perception through education instead. Youre creative- you will figure something out
For example- I was attacked by a German Shepherd when I was small. It chased me half way around the neighborhood, and ran up and through an electric fence to get to me; It wasn't phased in the least. I have nothing against them, but they still scare the freaking hell out of me and I cringe whenever I see one coming up the street. I've no doubt it thought it was protecting its family; even though I was walking up to the house to get candy-it was Halloween night
I'm sure, for that family, the dog was very sweet and loving.
I have no idea what happened to it afterwards, but I can tell you I never saw the dog again.
You see numerous threads here on MM about how dangerous pitbulls are. As someone else mentioned, it's the dumb ass owners and not the breed. Sure, the breed is larger and therefore can cause more harm, yada yada, but so can any other larger sized dog. This thread might go the wrong way if you have some jerks join in, which they may. Just be happy you have a great dog you were able to save. Yes, the scenario sucks, and there are many more dogs out there that need forever homes. Thanks for being a good mommy to your new doggy. He is is good hands now. People in general are scared when they need not be.
Second, in some instances bias against pit bulls is conflated with dogs that aren't actually pit bulls (as was the case recently in Ireland).
But there are legitimate issues.
Many terrier breeds are naturally more aggressive than other breeds. That's not to say other breeds aren't, but the popularity of the pit bull breed makes it more troublesome.
Ultimately though, it's the owner. Because they're prone to be aggressive, pit bulls require more training and more attention - maybe even above and beyond the average pet owner.
But (and I'm not talking about you or anyone here) the kind of person this breed attracts (at least in small towns Oregon and California where I've lived) is the opposite of the responsible pet owner.
Many of the people I personally know who got pit bulls got them as an extension of their self-image. It's a fashion choice or lifestyle accessory (which a pet should never be). Tough guy wants tough guy dog to look tough. They encourage its aggression without training and simply assume its gentle around friends and family.
I don't think pit bulls should be outlawed, but I think pit bull owners should be required to get training and a license to get a pit bull.
I've been a dog owner all my life (retired greyhounds) and have known many pit bulls, most of them incredibly friendly kissing machines. Breed specific legislation reacts to what a certain breed has been bred for. Pit bulls have been bred to bring down bulls, they have massive strong jaws, and are very loyal, to a fault. If a pit gets confused in a situation, say two children rough-housing, it is more likely to bite than my dogs. And if it bites, it is going to do a lot of damage. You can't change a dogs base instinct. My dogs were bred to run and chase small prey. As much as I try, there aren't many squirrels in my yard. When out of my fenced yard, they are always on leash, if they were startled or saw something in the distance, they would run and keep on running. It's instinct. Chihuahua's are nasty little dogs, but their bites don't cause any damage, so there's no legislation against them. When you adopt a dog, as sweet and loving as it is, you always have to be aware of what the breed has been bred for, and keep that in mind. Good luck! And socialize that dog!
.......But (and I'm not talking about you or anyone here) the kind of person this breed attracts (at least in small towns Oregon and California where I've lived) is the opposite of the responsible pet owner.
Many of the people I personally know who got pit bulls got them as an extension of their self-image. It's a fashion choice or lifestyle accessory (which a pet should never be). Tough guy wants tough guy dog to look tough. They encourage its aggression without training and simply assume its gentle around friends and family.
I don't think pit bulls should be outlawed, but I think pit bull owners should be required to get training and a license to get a pit bull.
I think, at least for me, this is the issue.
I look at the news images of the "bad" dogs being picked up.... and there is a definite "lifestyle" or demographic of the majority of the owners of these "bad" dogs.... (And remember, we only see the "bad" pits, the well behaved animals NEVER make the news)
There is some mystical macho thing going on about having the "baddest" pit....never mind that the animal cant be trusted with your kids after you "train" it to show the world how big YOUR dick is.
The breed gets blamed.
Is breed specific legislation fair? No. Is it a pragmatic response to an issue NO ONE seems to know what to do about? Maybe.
I dont have the answer. I know it isnt right to blame the dogs.... But is is a real issue.....
My Dad raised and sold pit bulls. He was known in our area for having the best lines of pit bulls and best behaved pit bulls around. I heard him tell everyone that ever came to see the dogs, "A pit bull's demeanor is like a mirror, it is a reflection of it's owner's demeanor."
I found that to be true.
Sell a pit bull puppy to a loving and caring person and it will grow to be a loving and caring dog...who is extremely loyal to his owner.
Sell a pit bull puppy to an uncaring jackass and it will grow to be one mean ass dog...who is NOT loyal to his owner.
I appreciate the responses. I do understand why the Pit Bulls have the image they do and I do understand there are attacks behind the legislation.
I guess to be more specific I dont understand why there can't be laws on a case by case basis as is with any other breed- it functions for other large, potentially dangerous animals (shepherds, etc).
If I dog is seen acting aggressive- sure, have someone do something about it. I know it would likely take more effort but like I said, it's what's already done for most breeds, even if they are large (I can thin of a dozen!).
It just sucks seeing so many pit Bulls in the shelter and knowing they're there not because they have issues or behavior problems! Mine is such a well behaved dog!!
Solacium wrote: I guess to be more specific I dont understand why there can't be laws on a case by case basis as is with any other breed- it functions for other large, potentially dangerous animals (shepherds, etc).
If I dog is seen acting aggressive- sure, have someone do something about it. I know it would likely take more effort but like I said, it's what's already done for most breeds, even if they are large (I can thin of a dozen!).
Unfortunately, doing that would require giving the badly behaved dog the first attack as a freebie. Not a good idea when we're talking jaws with bone-crushing strength.
That would also bring up the possibility of overturn as a bill of attainder.
There are other breeds as well, such as Akitas, that are regarded, rightly or wrongly, as potentially dangerous, and as with the pit bull, it's mostly due to their size and/or strength, combined with a reputation (deserved or not) for aggression or instability.
I knew an Akita owner who had trouble getting homeowner's liability coverage because of simply being an Akita owner. I also knew the dog, which was a big, clumsy, mostly friendly goofus. A mostly friendly goofus who did attack two other dogs, one badly enough to require emergency surgery...
The reality is, when people are irresponsible dog owners, the other dog owners pay the dues. Could be worse, really - you could be obliged to carry a special liability policy to own certain breeds.
It's not discrimination. It's the truth. They've been bred bad.
I do a LOT of traveling for work. I'm in an out of places all the time and often encounter dogs.
If I stop and see a golden retrieve running towards me, I brace myself to get run over by him/her as he/she comes over to see what's up and get some attention. If I see a pitbull running at me, I go for the mace. In one neighborhood I seen to go to too much, it has two pit bulls the sometimes run wild. There, I take a gun. In the real world, there are no nice pit bulls and thinking there are will get you hurt.
ArtisticPhotography wrote: It's not discrimination. It's the truth. They've been bred bad.
I do a LOT of traveling for work. I'm in an out of places all the time and often encounter dogs.
If I stop and see a golden retrieve running towards me, I brace myself to get run over by him/her as he/she comes over to see what's up and get some attention. If I see a pitbull running at me, I go for the mace. In one neighborhood I seen to go to too much, it has two pit bulls the sometimes run wild. There, I take a gun. In the real world, there are no nice pit bulls and thinking there are will get you hurt.
So fucking untrue. I have gone out on rescues to the worst parts if where I live and picked up stray pits and I've never encountered a problem.
ArtisticPhotography wrote: In the real world, there are no nice pit bulls and thinking there are will get you hurt.
I live with a pitbull.
And two cats.
I've met tons.
Dogs are like humans in that way- we have have tendencies towards disposition and experiences shape that. But that's a generalization akin to saying an entire race is "bad" no ifs ands or buts.
ANY generalization is usually too broad to be true.
T Brown wrote: I'm cautiuos of any dog pitbull or not, I had half my thigh bitten off when I was five from a neighborhood dog that got loose.
That's absolutely fair enough. Any dog does have the ability to attack- though a big dog will cause more damage than a toy breed.
I'm really sorry you had that experience with a dog, regardless of the conversation Some dogs are dangerous, I won't deny that.
I always keep my dog close when people pass by, I never assume they feel comfortable with a sniff or want that. If they stop and ask me if he's friendly (since I'm holding him so close) I say yes and let them say hi.
Edit: I'm also never going to assume nothing on Earth that might provoke my dog might go unnoticed by me. I can't ever claim to know my dog inside and out, being human- so I'd always choose to be cautious- even if I had him for years.
ArtisticPhotography wrote: It's not discrimination. It's the truth. They've been bred bad.
I do a LOT of traveling for work. I'm in an out of places all the time and often encounter dogs.
If I stop and see a golden retrieve running towards me, I brace myself to get run over by him/her as he/she comes over to see what's up and get some attention. If I see a pitbull running at me, I go for the mace. In one neighborhood I seen to go to too much, it has two pit bulls the sometimes run wild. There, I take a gun. In the real world, there are no nice pit bulls and thinking there are will get you hurt.
thinking like this is why there are laws. there ya go. Example A. When a person runs at you do you grab mace? You would lose in a court of law.
thinking like this is why there are laws. there ya go. Example A. When a person runs at you do you grab mace? You would lose in a court of law.
A good point is that knowing dog behavior is super handy. I volunteer and we went through training to understand signs of aggression, fear, and happiness- and there are more than just the obvious ones. Education can prevent unnecessary injury on both sides.
Solacium wrote: That's absolutely fair enough. Any dog does have the ability to attack- though a big dog will cause more damage than a toy breed.
I'm really sorry you had that experience with a dog, regardless of the conversation Some dogs are dangerous, I won't deny that.
I always keep my dog close when people pass by, I never assume they feel comfortable with a sniff or want that. If they stop and ask me if he's friendly (since I'm holding him so close) I say yes and let them say hi.
Edit: I'm also never going to assume nothing on Earth that might provoke my dog might go unnoticed by me. I can't ever claim to know my dog inside and out, being human- so I'd always choose to be cautious- even if I had him for years.
kid I went to school with was attacked by a lab of all dogs when he was a kid. He has a huge scar on his head. He is ok with dogs now but cautious. Dogs sense fear. If people would learn to work through their fears, they would live better lives. My little boston is a wack job. She is afraid of everything but barks at most people to try and ward off threat. Inside she is terrified but she tries to stand her ground by barking. I have to explain that to people so they dont get scared. Once I do that, they then can see how scared she is and leave her alone. Once she gets to know you, and it takes some time, she is the biggest mush ever. This is a 28 pound dog we are talking about here. If she were bigger, people would want her muzzled. Whatever, this is all stereotype we are talking about here, nothing more.
I've never blamed the animal I blame the owners because a dog usually wont become that way unless something is done to turn them mean.
I've had several dogs and breeds over the years ( my baby is a Siberian husky named kiska, who's a good doggy you are kiska) not a single one has ever demonstrated aggressive tendencies.
I also have a lab/husky mix too, she's six months old stupid as a brick but I lobes her too.
Solacium wrote: ANY generalization is usually too broad to be true.
No it's not. If a pit bull comes at me, I'll mace it or shoot it first and ask questions later. I'm playing the odds on this one. If you don't want me to shoot your dog, keep it muzzled and under control or indoors. If it's free and coming at me, I'm shooting it.
My work takes me all over the area: urban, suburban and rural. I run into a lot of people and a lot of things. This includes some of the roughest neighborhoods you can imaging. Very little bothers me. I've never felt in fear from a person and therefore have never pulled a gun or mace on a person.
I carry mace (and occasionally a gun) because of dogs. I've never maced one but I won't hesitate. Often I'm on the ready for the pit bull coming over the fence, through the window, breaking the chain or coming in on an attack run. So far, the pitt bulls have all turned at the last moment.
Dobermans are predictable and not a bother, but the trained attack dogs are a bit scary when you're 3 feet from their fence. Shepherds are fine. They like to try to intimidate you but it takes a lot to set them off. Other breeds are fine.
Here's the difference. If a shepherd is loose, he'll defend his ground but generally won't move in on you. They are a defensive dog. Dobbies can be aggressive, but if one's loose it's okay. He'll stay his distance unless you do something stupid. Pits are different. If you turn your back on them, they'll come in at you. You don't have much choice but to watch them and be ready.
One of the reasons they legislate against pit bulls is that they can. Look at the demographics of who own them and you'll see a group that's easy to control -- it tends to be people who are relatively poor. There aren't a lot of doctors and lawyers who are going to fight against the law.
Pit bull owners are soooooooooo annoying with their wimpy breed specific legislation whining.
What a bunch of pussies.
A friend of mine has pit bulls and his girlfriend became a pitbull fanatic (probably just to impress him or something) and now she posts anti-breed specific legislation posts all day long on facebook.
Just shuuuuuuutup already.
I'm so tired of you drama queens.
You've got potential god damn monsters roaming around the streets with my kids. Fuck breed specific legislation. If it were up to me I'd euthanize every single dog there is no matter what breed.
Dogs should run free in the wild. Domestication is slavery.
So shutup with your hollier than thou attitude you buncha slave owners.
We have 2 pitbulls on our block& our neighbors just let the one run out, he doesn't even have a collar. We refuse to call animal control because he's so sweet& has never been aggressive towards anyone. But we're trying to find someone to take him:/ (they don't want him)
The other gets off her chain at least once a week. But this is still the suburbs. It may be different in the city.
C. Scott Photography wrote: Pit bull owners are soooooooooo annoying with their wimpy breed specific legislation whining.
What a bunch of pussies.
A friend of mine has pit bulls and his girlfriend became a pitbull fanatic (probably just to impress him or something) and now she posts anti-breed specific legislation posts all day long on facebook.
Just shuuuuuuutup already.
I'm so tired of you drama queens.
You've got potential god damn monsters roaming around the streets with my kids. Fuck breed specific legislation. If it were up to me I'd euthanize every single dog there is no matter what breed.
Dogs should run free in the wild. Domestication is slavery.
So shutup with your hollier than thou attitude you buncha slave owners.
ArtisticPhotography wrote: It's not discrimination. It's the truth. They've been bred bad.
I do a LOT of traveling for work. I'm in an out of places all the time and often encounter dogs.
If I stop and see a golden retrieve running towards me, I brace myself to get run over by him/her as he/she comes over to see what's up and get some attention. If I see a pitbull running at me, I go for the mace. In one neighborhood I seen to go to too much, it has two pit bulls the sometimes run wild. There, I take a gun. In the real world, there are no nice pit bulls and thinking there are will get you hurt.
So because humans are a sick fucked breed, its okay now to blame pitbulls for what the pieces of shit do to them?
Yknow its funny, do you think pitbulls are born with an angry disposition?
they have been bred that way so yes they are born pissed off they were also bred to have a powerful bite so when hey did get pissed off and bite whatever it is they were after, whatever they were after is gonna know it.
Im done arguing. Im not going to try to convince you of something youre obviously not changing your mind on.
Edit- I just thought id add that i personally feel there wouldnt be a problem with pitbulls at all if it were illegal to own a "high-risk" dog if you have a criminal record.
Guarantee less problems.
I think breed specific legislation is a slippery slope, and then what do you do with cross bred animals? When is a pit bull ENOUGH of a pit bull to qualify?
So, I don't agree or support breed specific legislation.
What I *could* get behind is size specific legislation. So, say after 40lbs, a dog would be required to be muzzled in public. Or some weight that could be determined by a panel of people far smarter than I am. To include members of the AKC and other bodies that know more about the animals than lawmakers could.
If it's TRULY a safety situation, then ANY animal of a given size could seriously hurt a person.
People choose to have large dogs. People choose to have dogs that are bred to be aggressive. I don't understand why people have such a big argument about insuring that others will not be harmed by their dogs in a public place. Then again, I'm not a dog owner.
this is from me 
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